That was amazing and totally unexpected.

Total curveball from the graphic novels. I'm sure most readers were like me and thinking that a main character would die tonight, but not that one. It almost feels like the writers knew it and milked it, too. :)

That was some outstanding TV.

I hope they kill off/recast Sarah Cailles. She ruined many episodes of PrisonBreak. And she's killing this show.

We're to believe that Otis put the girl in the barn. Or was Hershel lying the whole time?

Good question.

I'm leaning towards believing that Hershel knew that Sophia was in there and that was part of why he was trying to convert them to his thinking (that they could be cured) or trying to make them leave so that her mom would be spared the agony. I don't see any way that they don't clarify that in the next episode, unless someone like Daryl or Shane just shoots Hershel (doubtful).

I actually think Cailles is playing Lori pretty close to how I would have imagined her. Moody and not so subtly questioning/doubting Rick is part of Lori's MO. I thought this was one of the best acted episodes of the series. Carl and Glen have been much better this season and this was one of the few tolerable performances of the series from the guy that plays Shane (still can't get over the drinking/crying/shower scene, though).

Found an answer I guess.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvdnH...e_gdata_player

I hope they go for a full 22 episodes next season.

I don't like this crap where they take two months off.

IMO they were barely able to create these 7 episodes. I can't imagine how badly stretched out a full season would feel. Especially with AMC slashing budgets like they have been.

I watched Talking Dead and Kirkman said that it's true that Otis was the one who captured the walkers and put them in the barn. Shane killed off Otis before they were even able to mention Sophia had been missing.

So, as always, Shane is to blame.

Really glad that story arc is over. Became way too much of a crutch for the writers to get from point A to whatever point B will end up becoming. It was a good episode but the entire storyline was contrived.

Kirkman interview:'Walking Dead' writer Robert Kirkman talks midseason finale shocker | Inside TV | EW.com

This one deserves a big ol' "LOL".

True dat

Character in the graphic novels?

Yeah. One of the central characters and one that I am sure they have been dying to introduce.

Is there any place to watch the new episode? I forgot to DVR it and my Comcast On Demand doesn't seem to have it. My beef is they never rerun the episode until Thursday or Friday...

I don't know for free, but you can get it for 2.99 from Itunes

Ya think? ;)

We haven't read the novels around here but just from bits & pieces I've picked up on, both my son & I think that has the potential to be one of the greatest characters in the history of television.

Glad that that's over and people are listening to Shane.

Or a Left 4 Dead crossover!

That ending sure caught me and the wife off guard. Redeemed the story arc a bit. Still hope to god they get off of the farm.

Thinking the first half of the season over a bit and it occurs to me that I never gave much thought to the visit to the housing community that Shane and Andrea took.

They found that hole in the wall and giant pile of dead Walkers (or were they just dead bodies) that appeared to have been placed in one place (i.e. someone moved them and it wasn't Walkers. I guess it is possible that there were other survivors there?

I assumed that was a nod to something from the source material, seemed similar to what I've read was one of the first locations where that version of our merry band tried to take refuge.


I didn't think much about that, other than to think it was the scene of a major confrontation & the walkers fell there during combat.

I feel like the only Debbie Downer left in this thread, so I'm going to stop posting and only check once in awhile if I keep watching. I just wanted to say that this ending was something a couple of friends and I joked about as being a stupid ending to the Sophie thing, once we found out the barn had zombies in it. So I guess there are my thoughts on that ending. I'm kind of looking forward to see what Shane as leader can get going, but I'll probably wait until the second half of the season is over before I watch again.

Don't worry. While you may feel like the only Debbie Downer left in this thread, there are plenty of reviews that I've read who really hate this show and feel the same way you do.

I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen. I'd give no better than even money that he's alive at the end of the second half-season finale.

I'm feeling Rick will end up killing him at the end of the second half.

Not in the least, though the end of the season made up slightly for the truly boring and bad rest of it. I saw one TV critic on twitter recommending "stuck on the farm" as a phrase for a creatively stalled show from now on and I can't disagree. I like how this show will have the organic ability to change the cast as it goes on because right now there aren't many characters I give a damn about.

I wonder how much this "stuck on the farm" business has to do with the show's budget cuts? I remember some comment over the summer where AMC apparently wanted more interior shots and locations, and less outdoor action scenes and sets, to save on the budget. Keeping most of the action limited to the farm and the surrounding wilderness would likely save a lot of money.

Here's the piece I am referring to:

AMC's Crazy Ideas for Cutting Costs on The Walking Dead

AMC's decision to cut the budget dated to the previous fall, when the network instructed Darabont to produce 13 episodes for a second season, up from six for the first season, for less money. Not only would the show get a lower budget, but AMC also decided that Walking Dead would no longer reap the benefit of a 30 percent tax credit per episode that came with filming in Georgia. Now the network was going to hold on to that money.

At the time, a source says, the show's producers decided not to get into a confrontation. "To have a fight over a number when they didn't know what the show was going to do didn't make sense," says this source. But when Walking Dead began to break AMC records, those involved figured that a negotiation would take place and the cuts might be reduced.

But this source says that AMC had its own ideas about how to make the show more cheaply. The show shoots for eight days per episode, and the network suggested that half should be indoors. "Four days inside and four days out? That's not Walking Dead," says this insider. "This is not a show that takes place around the dinner table." That was just one of what this person describes as "silly notes" from AMC. Couldn't the audience hear the zombies sometimes and not see them, to save on makeup? The source says Darabont fought "a constant battle to keep the show big in scope and style."

There is an overwhelming amount of foreshadowing that .

dola-
It seems that AMC is just unwilling to provide the budget for a show like this. I wish they would just sell it off. I read that they were somewhere around 3.5 million/episode the first year. And now are at almost a million less for these episodes. I'm guessing that the show was sold to Netflix for roughly a million/episode, so they basically have to be making money hand over fist.

I can take a bottle episode or two per season, but with these basically no-name actors, we should be able to get more action and adventure.

Yeah. They were pretty much telegraphing it that entire last episode. The only surprise was that it didn't happen as the midseason cliff hanger.

Haven't read the comic and didn't get the foreshadowing.

I'd like the character development better if Rick does it over Carl.

Can't compare too much to the comics ... Sophia is still alive in issue 91 and current timelines put us around issue 12.
I loved the last episode, thought it brought to a head a lot of stuff that was simmering. Definitely need to speed things up in the second half though.

I still love the show, but, they really, really need to pick up the pace or it just becomes a day time soap with occasional zombies.

Some article I read in the past said they specifically cut the budget of Walking Dead to pay for the increased costs of keeping Mad Men going. Personally I love both shows. It would have been nice for them to pony up the money for Walking Dead as well.

Especially considering Walking Dead has better ratings.

It figures that this group of idiots would kill the person who has been the most capable and willing to look out for the groups survival. Even Daryl went off the deep end willing to die to find someone who probably wouldn't be found.

But, much as I hate to say it, MM probably draws more ad revenue because of the demographics. It's a small audience, honestly a lot smaller than I imagine most people realize, but it's a particularly affluent one. That makes it an easy sell to high-end advertisers (BMW, Mercedes, etc) because they have relatively few targeted options for television.

edit to add: I chose "draws more ad revenue" intentionally, given the higher costs for the show I don't think we can say something stronger like "more profitable".
But it's definitely an easier sell.

I reckon that's true. I've never watched "Mad Men", but I know a lot of people who do and most would fit that demographic. I also always watch "Walking Dead" on the DVR, so I have no real idea what kind of advertisers buy air time.

Thread always gets bumped during Sunday Night Football, and I never click on it until the DVR gets around to it. Way after game or the next day.


Kinda felt odd not seeing it up there.


See you kids in Feburary.

Finally got around to watch the last few episodes-was fun getting caught up in the thread here knowing what was going to happen and what the likely reaction would be.

Have to say that while I was surprised that Sophia was in the barn, and happy that part of the show is finally over, I'm hoping that Herschel and his group did not know she was in there-that Otis brought her in before any one knew who she was and didn't tell anybody before his untimely death. Because seeing the mother grieving like that-you'd have to have a heart of stone to just not tell her at some point-or if Herschel really wanted them gone to have her "found" near the farm so Rick's group could deal with her then be on their way.

I can't see this group surviving very long if Shane is going to be the new leader-he's so far gone off the moral and sanity deep end that he'll likely now have no qualms killing people who disagree/try to rebel against his orders. Starting with Dale probably. It's likely a bloody ending for him coming sooner rather than later. I have to say I was really rooting for Dale to kill him in the swamp or at the barn at the end there.

I liked that Carol was finally coming to grips with her daughter's likely death instead of constantly grieving-her scenes with Darryl were nice I thought-now though she'll likely be back to constant grieving.

The last scene was great of course for its surprise moments and horror at what happened, but the part I liked the most actually was Glenn looking over at farmer's daughter and asking her if it was okay if he joined the firing line.

It's a shame that monetary concerns are keeping the show from reaching the heights it could. I think the show works best when they are on the move, finding out more about this new world they are in, while under the near constant threat of the zombies. I'm glad they got to flesh out the characters a bit, but its time to amp up the tension part of the show again.

I believe he knew, justifying the deception on the basis of "saving" Sophia. The one obvious flaw with my belief is why he let them keep searching instead of pushing them harder to leave.

Yeah I mean he could have told Carol, convinced her to stay in the hopes of finding a cure for her daughter, then told the others to leave because they were against keeping any of the Walkers in the barn alive.

I am of the belief that he didn't know she was in there. That Otis brought her in himself one night and the conversation sort of went like this:

Otis: I found another one out in the creek. Brought her in.
Hersehl: Anyone we know?
Otis: No.

And that was it.

Then Rick, Shane and Carl show up, Shane and Otis go to get the medical supplies and Shane kills Otis before Otis ever learns that they were looking for a little girl, the one who might be in the barn.

I like this point, but I think Herschel knew that telling any single one of them would risk that person telling the rest of the group. We all know what happened when that became a reality.

I tend to agree with HB's point that Otis brought her in and was killed off before they had a chance to tell Herschel and Co that they were missing Sophia.

The trailer for the second half of the season makes it pretty clear whether or not Hershel knew.

saw that myself during Hell on Wheels and was a great teaser.

I didn't watch it, but a friend watched The Talking Dead.

Supposedly they addressed it on there and stated that Herschel didn't know.

I didn't watch the trailer that others are mentioning.

No way they kill Shane off any time soon. The tension he creates now is one of the best parts of the show.

I don't watch Talking Dead.

They really need to have this explained very clearly in the show, since it's the most obvious question.

This is one of the more entertaining shows on TV...however, the writers are either really bad or they're being tied too tightly to the comic. Let's take two different examples of shows with low budgets and a premise based on special effects:

Heroes Season 1 didn't have as much money as they did during Season 2. They had to write good stories. When their budget increased, they went off the deep end relying on special effects as opposed to an engrossing story.

The Walking Dead Season 2 doesn't have a big budget, so why wouldn't the writers develop an actual story? We don't even know the names of people on Herschel's farm other than Herschel and Maggie. There's almost no development to T-Dog. At this point in the series we should be invested into the characters so that when they eventually die, we'll feel something. At this point, I'd only be sad if Dale, Glenn, or Maggie died. I could deal with everyone else and would be relieved when some of them die (yeah, I'm looking at you Lori!).

I have to think the writers are being held too closely to the source material as well as trying to do too much. I'm not emotionally invested in a lot of the characters and for as much down time and "character moments" that's a shame.

The only thing Shane really brings for me at this point is gleefully anticipating his death.

Perhaps there's a clue about the success of the show in our difference of opinion (or reaction). We're both relatively happy with the show, presumably, yet have nearly opposite reactions to a central character.

I haven't read the source material but I think I'm reasonably familiar with it from spoilers/summaries/etc.

I don't think "held too closely" is an option here, I mean the diversion from the source is pretty dramatic.

-- We've got a main character that doesn't exist in the comic
-- We've got multiple main characters that are already long since dead in the comic
-- We've got/had characters that either don't exist in the original or may be composites of characters from the source material
-- Skill sets / personality traits differ from the source material by varying degrees, but at least a couple of those have been fairly significant IMO (Andrea's relationship with guns being a great example)

edit to add: Make that at least one main character that's already long since dead

Agreed. I can't wait for his uppence to come.

I think Talking Dead equivalents should exist for many of the major shows. It's essentially a commercial, which costs them probably <50k per half hour. Don't know about what kind of ratings it did, however.

Hrm. Maybe what I meant to say was that Kirkman is too much in control and trying to keep it close to his source material with tinkering to make it better. He has said that he killed Shane off too quickly in the comic book.

Andrea is good with guns. I think you saw that in the housing development. I'm not sure where that is is a skill set that differs?

As I understand it, she came that way in the comics, arguably the best shot in the group. On TV, we went through the whole dramatic learning-to-shoot thing, prior to which they didn't even trust her with a gun.

In the comic there is no real issue with giving Andrea a gun, but she doesn't come in as a dead shot. She trains with the rest and just happens to be sort of a natural or savant when it comes to shooting. It's a skill she didn't know she had. So, the progress was similar but not quite as nuanced.

I really don't think the problem with the show is trying to stick too closely to the source material. As Jon has mentioned, I think they've show a strong willingess to divert from the source material in a lot of ways. They really have only loosely stuck to it.

I think there are quite a few people who feel the same you do about the characters. People just haven't connected with them. There are some fan favorites, in paritcular Glenn and Daryl and to a lesser extent Maggie.

People seem to either dislike or be bored by Rick. Most folks hate Lori because she's kind of unpleasant and shrill in many respects. A lot of people hate Andrea too. People go back and forth on Shane. And Dale is a bit of a mixed bag.

I don't think it's a problem with character development really. I think there has been plenty character development. In some cases, perhaps too much character development.

At this point we have different tiers of characters (could be some argument as to where people lie exactly):

A-Listers:
Rick, Lori, Shane and by extension Carl

B-Listers:
Glenn, Andrea, Dale, Hershel, Maggie and Darryl

C-Listers:
T-Dawg, Carol, Sophia, and everyone else on the farm - the young kid, the young girl and Mrs. Otis.

We've had plenty of character development with the A-Listers and a decent amount for the B-List group. The C-Listers really haven't had much screen time and spend a lot of time in the background and what not. The show could do a better job of giving the C-Listers more to do and more character development but cutting into some of the time spent developing the A-Listers.


I would like to see more character development out of T-Dawg and Carol, but to say that this show lacks character development is sorely mistaken. I have an excellent sense of Rick, Lori, and Shane. I have a very good sense of most, if not all, of the B-Listers as well. I think there may be a bit too much harping on the lack of development of some characters who are quite clearly minor characters, at least at this point.

I think the problem has been that a lot of the character development of the A-Listers has been a bit repetitive and hasn't made them all that sympathetic. I actually have started coming around more on Lori. I've always liked Rick. He's a very well formulated character, but he's not charasmatic and that's sort of part of who he is. In fact, it's sort of a large part. Lori has complained about his lack of emotion and distance, even before this started, and all the highschool stories about Shane and Rick clearly pain Rick as sort of the quiet, reserved guy who just sort of watched Shane's reckless bravado from a safe distance.

I have read all the comics and I feel like the characters on the show are much more "alive" and distinct. I never felt the comic did a great job developing any characters other than Rick and Carl, to some extent, and a character who has not yet appeared on the show. The others are a bit paper thin.

OMG, that's Dean Malenko !

:D

I'd agree that character development is there; it's just bad character development IMHO because we can't connect with many of them (it may be semantics, but I'd say connecting as opposed to sympathizing with them). I agree the comic didn't do much in character development and in fact I think Lori's development is far and beyond what it is the in comic.

In a way, I feel like this show is a lot like Lost. There are a bunch of people that I see sometimes and go "Who is that?"

*side note: Lori's argument of bringing a child into that world is null and void. She argued that she still remembers good times and can cling to them; a new child wouldn't know anything of the world before (other than reading books, and I'd guess that it would be like reading science fiction). If I were Rick, I would've told her that the world is what we make of it and their (Shane's) baby wouldn't miss anything because she wouldn't have experienced anything other than we Lori and Rick gave her.
Astute!

Why? I'm not a HUGE fan of the show, but I find it pretty interesting. Seems like a home run for you.

Not out of any kind of principle or anything. I just never really think about it or remember it's on.

a little late to the party because we just recently caught up.

I don't mind the season so far...although I do think the slower pace would have benefited from some more deft character development. I totally agree that we don't connect with most of the characters (still not sure I could remember all the names of everyone). Heck, I was trying to remember the people from the group who had died in season one and couldn't do it. There was some person who they left by the side of the road, there was the one chick's sister, and I think someone blew up in the CDC? And I can't picture any of them, not even sure the gender of the side of the road person. Everyone either has no depth (dorky Glenn, the chick who wants to shoot things, the grandpa guy, Sophie's mopy mom) or they have depth but it's handled so comically that they appear schizophrenic (hello, Shane). You think of, for example, all the amazingly complex and interesting characters from Lost and almost any of them would be a huge upgrade, even the lamest ones like Libby or Ana Lucia.

Good post. They are generally doing a poor job with the show IMHO, and I always feel one episode away from just stopping my viewing. The mid-season break could easily lead to me forgetting about the show and not returning.

Your description of the shallow nature of most characters, and my inability to only vaguely recall those who have been killed off is right on.

Really entertaining interview with Michael Rooker(Merle) on the Nerdist Podcast(Chris Hardwick) The guy is definitely a character. Not a ton of walking dead talk, but worth the (free) listen.

so, I've been reading through the comics...er, graphic novels. very interesting. in some ways, I think it makes me appreciate the TV show more, as a lot of the changes / additions have been good ones. But I will say that the comics focus much more on the survival side of things, something I have long groused that the TV show is missing.

I did cheer when they killed off a certain annoying character early in the comics. if only...

Sunday sunday sunday

9p, 8c

Super pumped.

There won't be anymore breaks until the end of the season now, right?

Just started watching this series over the weekend on Netflix, I have yet to read this thread...just wanted to say...this series is fucking awesome already.

Yeah, but there's only 6 episodes in this half of season 2.

Season 3 will be 16 episodes, once again split into halves :(

The next 6 weed complete the season. I'd assume the next season starts around Halloween. But I don't think that is set in stone. Could easily be a year from now.

Buy the season debut, the mid season finale and "Save the Last One" from Amazon or iTunes to get caught up. Not sure the other 4 episodes are so important. I suppose the one Daryl one was ok too.

almost up to date with the comics - maybe 4 or 5 left to go. Turns out, Rick being an idiot on the show was just following the comics

I'm pretty sure we're supposed to be shocked by that last scene.
I'm really not.

Wasn't shocked but it did move Grimes along in character development.

Too many cues to see how that ended

yep, knew how that was going to turn out the second i saw those 2 right before the commercial. tense scene though

Good to see Rick grow a set. Hopefully that was fatal for Lori there.

Yeah, I didn't mean my comment to sound like a complaint or anything. I just think maybe it wasn't as shocking to at least parts of the audience as they might have been shooting for when it was written.

As for the tension, heck I was interested in watching Rick & Herschel communicate silently during the scene.

I can get behind a walker free episode like this one was, basically. The tension between various factions of people is ripe for exploration. It was touched upon in the Vatos episode, and it's good to see something similar arise.

dola

the one guy looked just enough like Dane Cook for me to be confused as it whether or not it was actually Dane Cook.

and that scene was the best part of the show by a lot. very nicely done.

Did I miss the "scenes from the next episode bit"? All I could think was, "Great, now we get like 5 weeks of looking for Lori."

It was a

Dave Navarro was pretty cool on last night's talking dead. He made a similar "please don't make us spend all season with another person in a bed" quip that was pretty hilarious.

They stuck it in after the first segment of the regrettable Comic Book Pawn Shop with Kevin Smith show

Well I'm not watching that shit to get to the scenes from the next episode.

It's on AMCTV.com \

http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dea...-triggerfinger

oh, and I liked the little comic book reference to a possible community in DC

I agree. The "moral", if you will, of many a zombie movie is that other people are always a bigger threat than the zombies. People are the real monsters, zombies are just sort of a catalyst or accelerant. That kind of tension can really wratchet things up big time and I thought that last scene played out beautifully.

It's too bad they killed those guys off so quickly, because I really like the actor who played the skinny guy. He was Rene on "True Blood".

Between being the one who shot Sophia and now this Rick really is beginning to make a bit of a turn. He's becomming more like the character in the comic in a way that he'll do pretty much anything to protect his own. A pretty sharp contrast to the guy who spent days "hoping" to find a little girl who was lost and everyone knew she was dead.

Oh, stupid Lori. I am really not sure what she'd thought she'd accomplish. Run out there and tell everyone to "hurry up, guys! I'm serious!"

Could Lori's character be any more stupid? Why was she going after Herschel when Rick was already doing that?

this is how you tell a story on TV.

Thinking more about that scene in the bar, it's an interesting take on the psychology of how groups form, too. What is it that ties the group all together, and makes other people outsiders? Just circumstance, really. The "us" vs. "them" takes hold very quickly. We've seen what people have had to do to survive, relatively good and normal people. How quickly than can become desperate and how distructive outside forces can be.

Just a few hours ago Herhsal and his people were the "them" and Rick and his people were the "us". The moment a strange, third party enters into the scenario and instantly Rick and Hershel unify against the outsiders.

It was exactly the psychology that Dr. Manhattan was counting on to diffuse the potential World War III in "Watchmen".


I liked that too.

Despite the overall general negative feelings towards the first half of Season 2, the ratings for this show just continue to rise:

'Walking Dead' return delivers monster ratings | Inside TV | EW.com

AMC’s midseason return of The Walking Dead broke the show’s previous records.

On Sunday night, the zombie drama had 8.1 million viewers and 5.4 million viewers among adults 18-49. That’s TV’s biggest drama series telecast in the adult demo in basic cable history. That’s up 12 percent in the demo compared to the show’s previous record, October’s season 2 premiere. Combined with its encore, Walking Dead had 10.1 million viewers for the night.

Wow, 10 million viewers. There are a bunch of network shows that would kill for those numbers.

It solidly beat everything on the networks Sunday except for the Grammys and got nipped by Once Upon A Time. I was hoping for 2nd place outright but it's still a monster.

That was Ozymandias. :)

Word.

Hopefully this will be the end of the Lori character. She's such a waste and after she just told Rick not to go into town she gets in a car and does the same thing. What was she going to do anyway, save all 3 men from a horde of walkers?

This episode was ok, better than any in the first half of season 2. It was largely helped by the end scene in the bar. At least there was some action and new people for the main characters to interact with.