I agree with what Barkley said after the game in regards to Artest. What he did wasn't really crazy. He got elbowed in the throat on purpose and got in Kobe's face to tell him that it wasn't alright. He didn't swing at him or start a brawl. He even said afterwards he expected to get a technical and that's it for it (which is what he should have got). But he learned that breathing on the NBA's precious Kobe is an automatic ejection.

DING DING! We have a winner.

The one post answers the other. Brooks has issues with the entry pass. If the Rockets had anything close to a competent PG, the offense would flow more readily through Yao.

SI

I actually agreed with Chuck about those certain bits of the press conference with Artest. It sounded damn near coherent, particularly for him. That said, the ejection was at least technical because you can't let something like that escalate. But an ejection- I dunno. I do love the little bald ref trying to get between the two of them when it's clear they weren't about to throw down- it's just funny to see. It's like the "just hold me back" friend. ;)

Fisher. Enjoy the pine for at least game 3 if not 4 as well. There's no way in hell he shouldn't be suspended at least 1 game.

SI

Fisher has to be suspended for a game. If it's anyone he hits other than Scola, then you might be able to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. But the fact that on the previous play Scola got into it with Odom and Walton makes Fisher's move that much more of a punk move. It was premeditated retaliation. Sit him down for a game.

Ronny the Vampire Slayer.

Not enuf love in this thread for the dominating win by the Celtics last night.

Another triple-double for Rondo - he's amazing when he's pushing the tempo and penetrating, massive points and minutes by the bench after Pierce's early foul troubles...if they can maintain this momentum and defensive intensity they'll cruise through Orlando. Still feel they'll fall to Lebron though unfortunately.

I'd love to think that the Celtics-Magic series is going to be worthwhile, but I can't shake the feeling that the Cavs own the East crown.

You guys nearly killed my work laptop with the GIFs over the last couple pages.

I think I agree unfortunately. With a healthy Garnett (even without a healthy Powe) I think it's different, but unless Rondo is the triple-double machine AND the bench comes up big I can't see them getting past the Cavs.

I really want the Magic to win this series for the sake of the Cavs. I want them to beat a team and not have to hear excuses.

Not directed at you, DT, but I know damn well if the Celtics beat the Magic we will hear how tired they are and how they don't stand a chance due to that reason.

Then throw in Garnett...

Boston isn't the only team in the series missing an All-Star player so there will be excuses either way.

Who else? Courtney Lee? I expect to see him back by the Cavs series.

I think he means Jameer Nelson

Shiet. Can't believe I forgot about him.

Yea. That one hurts.

Don't worry, Garnett will be back for that series. :)

van Gundy said he was planning on Lee being back for game three. And yeah I was referring to Nelson.

Um, so I guess Artest's story about a kid getting staked in the heart with a table leg at a basketball game was true:

Player Dies in Stabbing at Basketball Game - The New York Times WOW

Alston, Fisher suspended one game each

Orlando Magic's Rafer Alston, Los Angeles Lakers' Derek Fisher suspended one game each by NBA - ESPN

I'm surprised that Alston was.

The Alston suspension is complete bullshit, especially considering Rondo didn't get suspended for throwing Hinrich into the scorer's table and throwing an elbow at his head (which is much worse than a light slap to the back of the head). But Boston is a big market and they'll get bigger ratings in the conference finals. Oh and Kobe gets off with another elbow to the head.

It shouldn't be surprising, but the NBA should just come out and make rules based on market size.

Alston got suspended because because his action was basically an after-the-play taunt, the kind of thing that can lead to a bigger incident. It wasn't the severity of the contact. Obviously, there's more signficant contact than that dozens of times in any NBA game. Comparing the degree of contact with hard fouls misses the point entirely. I don't understand why you can't grasp that distinction. Maybe he should have been suspended, maybe not, but it's not a "hard foul" type play.

Why do you follow a league that you think is rigged with such enthusiasm? It's really odd. This is approximately your 8 billionth reference to NBA conspiracies in this thread. Referring can never be consistent when you're talking thousands of calls over a season with different referees. It's incredibly easy to find evidence of conspiracies if you're looking for them. But you lose credibility when you see it EVERY time. I was intruiged by some of your points earlier but now it's just like a parody.

Replays showed that he got him in the chest (along with showing Artest hanging all over Kobe to begin with). I think the league got it right, but I'm part the of consipiracy so, you know... I would say Go Lakers, but it's already implied.

Orlando Magic's Rafer Alston, Los Angeles Lakers' Derek Fisher suspended one game each by NBA - ESPN

Ok, so how does this work: "Jackson also announced that the Lakers' Kobe Bryant has been assessed a flagrant foul one for elbowing Houston's Ron Artest in the chest area in the fourth quarter."

What does a flagrant foul announced today mean?

SI

It's not totally pointless. I don't know the number, but you are only allowed a certain number of flagrant points before an automatic suspension is given, so in theory, Kobe is one more point towards being suspended if he continues to get flagrants.

All I ask is consistency. There is no way you can justify suspending Alston and not suspending Rondo. Rondo's action was an after-the-play incident and could have led to a huge brawl. I just don't see how grabbing a guy and heaving him into the scorers table is OK but lightly slapping someone in the head isn't. It makes no sense how you can suspend Alston for something much less violent.


I like the league and am a big fan of basketball. The WWE side of things is still entertaining. You are correct that refs aren't consistent, but they do have tendencies. I mentioned earlier in the first round that they always put homers (guys like Salvatore and Crawford) in when the major market needs to win a home game. Guess what crews officiated the LA and Boston games last night?

I'm not trying to spread a conspiracy, just going off my experience with the league as someone who was heavily into betting on the sport for years. There were stat guys who could breakdown every facet of a game and pick winners consistently. If they knew who the officials were beforehand, they could increase their odds 5-10% (which is why Donaghy was such a resource for gamblers). Now maybe it's just dumb luck, but when I can pick who is going to officiate based on the trends of the NBA, something isn't right (I will guarantee you that Javie's crew gets a game 7 in either series).

Now I don't know how you can say there isn't favoritism toward the stars. Kobe has gotten away with a couple big elbows in the last few years without a suspension. Something many other players were not allowed. If you even tough a star you'll get in trouble (see Horry's 2 game suspension in the playoffs for a hip check).Now I'm a Bulls fan and can tell you that Michael Jordan got a shitload of favoritism by the officials. They would rarely T him up or toss him out. He was able to get away with a lot of hard fouls others wouldn't. You can't honestly tell me that you feel that Kobe Bryant gets the same treatment from officials and the league office as Rafer Alston?

You get 5 a season. Not sure if that carries over to the playoffs though.

umm the rondo play was during the run of play dude. the ball was inbounds and the action was going on

You get three flagrant foul points in the playoffs. Kobe now has one. Were he to get called for a flagrant 2, he would not only be ejected for the game he was in at the time of the foul, but he would be suspended for the next one as well. Points do not carry over from the regular season.

There is also a technical foul limit. If you get 7 in the playoffs, you are done for a game.

Heh, that sure seems like an awful lot.

As for the consistency of the officiating in these playoffs, it's been pretty bad.

The Rondo foul on Miller was a flagrant, period. Just because you don't wind up doesn't mean your intent was correct. He made no play on the ball, he busted a guy in the face, that's a flagrant. Had the same thing happened to Rondo at the other end of the floor, I would have expected a Flagrant 2 to be given.

Fisher deserved his suspension. Kobe did not deserve a suspension. Artest did not deserve a suspension. (the NBA got it right) Kenyon Martin deserved to be upgraded to a flagrant one with the 25k fine. (no matter what George Karl says)

The overall reffing of the games themselves? Meh. Some good, some bad. For the first time that I can ever remember, the Nuggets are actually getting a better than fair whistle. Then again, this is as aggressive of a team as I've ever seen play in Denver, so maybe the refs are just as shocked as us Denver fans are. (not all of us, I predicted we'd be damned good if we got rid of Camby and traded AI for a real PG, see this thread for my assessment of the AI trade. . . Iverson traded to... - Front Office Football Central

As for Denver, I've wanted to stay silent on them. I watched them win the 2nd seed and have people predict we'd be round one fodder in the playoffs. I have enjoyed watching people start to come to the realization that we are a good defensive team and that Nene might just have some game.

I think we'll get by Dallas (probably in 5, so long as we don't implode)

Houston or LA? I doubt it. But there is hope. With AI there was no hope. We were a horrible offensive basketball team who could run enough teams out to get to the playoffs. Now we can actually win a game 92-89. With us Nuggets fans, hope is a big, big thing. We haven't had it in a long time.

Billups has to be one of the most underated players in the league over the last decade. He rarely gets mentioned amongst the stars in the league but always winds up leading a team to a high seed that goes deep in the playoffs.

So if you miss the shot you can throw the guy into the scorer's table away from the action? Interesting take on the rules.

Is there a mercy rule in the NBA?

i didn't say that. i was just saying your characterization of it as a "dead ball foul" to borrow football terminology, was incorrect

Nope, but there probably ought to be.

We're so deep into the benches there's dudes out there playing that I didn't even know were in the league. Lemme know if there's a Lo Wright sighting

Neither was a dead ball foul. I said both happened after the play on the change of possesion.

What is Javies crew know for in the gambling circles

as far as last night is concerned, as soon as Yao picked up 2 real early fouls my mind immediatly thought "yep, Lakers need to win"

The NBA needs to get rid of all the flagrant fouls. If something's really blatant, eject somebody, maybe even suspend him. But these intermediate "flagrant fouls" just ensure inconsistency and bad feelings. Every play is different.

So much of it is superficial. If you have a guy driving, and another defender running at top speed, there's a decent chance there will be a pretty ugly collision with the offensive player getting the worst of it. Sometimes the arm gets the ball, sometimes it misses, things are going so fast and it's incorrect to assume that what happened at that high speed is what the players exactly intended. All of the slow motion analysis is completely ridiculous when trying to judge intent because the events didn't happen in slow motion.

It does make one miss the good old days:



This would make the internet explode day - McHale probably would have been suspended for the rest of the playoffs.

I don't know if there is any label on him in sports betting circles, but his crew is the best in the league. They use them for the biggest games.

It's a different era. After the Palace brawl there has been a zero tolerance policy on the court and extra caution to avoid fights. The NBA is a unique sport as the fans are literally on top of the players. There is no barrier of protection and very little space.

My favorite is the Robert Parrish karate chop on Bill Laimbeer (can't find it on YouTube). He didn't even get a technical for it.

No disrespect but Jamir don't equal a healthy Garnett who is hall of fame bound.

Ah that explains the 6-8 semi-rants in this thread. The Bulls played there asses off , way over their pay grade and will be owning the east along with whoever Lebron plays for in coming years. But DA Bulls are down for the year period. Take a breathe and save your dignity.

What does this have to do with the Bulls? The Bulls have received more than their fair of favoritism during the Jordan years. If you don't thing stars are treated differently in the NBA, it is clear you don't watch much of it.

Is the Kermit Washington punch to the face on Rudy T on the internets somewhere? I want to see it.

ah, here it is.



forward to about 1:50 if you want to be spared the sob story for the guy that almost killed someone.

It's nuts how close Rudy was to dying. A little different trajectory with the punch and he is dead. He was leaking spinal cord fluid into his skull or something. Shattered his face.

I still don't think anything can top this for pure shock value. I remember watching this on ESPN and just having my jaw hit the floor. One of the most surreal moments in sports.

Rudy's friggin' skull SHIFTED, that's how hard he was hit. And Rainmaker has it right, he was leaking spinal fluid, Rudy was tasting it in the back of his throat.

The Punch is a pretty decent book about the subject, if you're really interested...

yeah, the book is pretty good.

About that "SOB story about the guy that almost killed someone" : Read the book. Seriously, he made one huge mistake and basically was a terrific guy besides that for his whole life before and after the incident off the court.

On the court he was a product of the time that was asked to act the way he did.





that was kind of sick ... James so far is really coasting yet dominating if that make sense. Don´t think the Cavs will be tested before the finals.

If Lebron wins a title with the Cavs this year, will he stay?

Absolutely brillant post! 100% agree.

And how is this different than every other sport? Stars are treated differently. Greg Maddux got pitches called strikes that no other pitcher would get for years. Who is most likely to get a roughing the passer called when he gest a tap to the head? Tom Brady or John Beck? Stars are given the star treatment because they are stars.

No I agree with that stars are obviously treated differently which is not a problem as long as every teams stars are treated the same unlike a few major teams so on that I agree.

But stars aren't evenly distributed across teams.

Stars are always going to get the benefit of the doubt, that's not a conspiracy, it's just human nature. If Greg Maddox is working the corners, the umpire is going to be expecting it, Maddux looks like he knows what he's doing, and he's going to get that call. If a wild rookie is all over the plate and one pitch accidently gets a corner, it's hard to call that pitch a strike because the human brain just doesn't see it that way. If it seems like an accident, or your brain isn't expecting it, it's going to seem like a "worse" pitch than if a guy is consistently hitting his spots.

I think there's a similar dynamic at play in basketball. When a star misses a shot it's easier to "see" the foul, because you espect him to make that shot.

He's staying regardless.

QFT

Unless Kobe leaves for Europe

Nice performance from the Magic after a bad game two. Next game we'll have Alston and Lee for the first time this series.

why the hell do they stay with a blowout instead of going to Houston ?

Maybe there was an NBA equivalent of the "Heidi game" back in the day.

Lakers look very, very good righzt now. To tell you the truth i am concerned a little ...

And as a coach i hate that cross-matchup at the 3/4 that the Rockets go with. Artest gets manhandled on the boards and Scola gets killed in transition.

great offense by both teams, Rockets still too many turnover though. If they would get a good PG for once ... And boy, that last hookshot on the move by Yao was amazing, just as that pass off the dribble earlier. The guy is freaking 7´6 ...

Artest seriously passes up 2/3 of his open shots ...

Lakers by 2 at the half. Rockets with 11 Turnovers, most totally unforced really ... The good is that Kobe slowed down after a hot start and now has 14 on 13 shots, Rockets take that every time. And Yao much more involved and with 14 as well and plays great defense moving his feet and contesting shots. Gasol just 2-7 is a result of this.
I think in now 2 1/2 game the Lakers may have gotten half a dozen points on post ups from their big guys combined, that´s how good a post defender Yao has become. Gasol is a pretty good post player that is a potential 20 point scorer and he doesn´t even bother.

hearing Avery Johnson´s voice makes me cringe. It´s like chalk on a chalkboard for my ears ... He may or may not make good points, but my hearing cells just tune out in an act of self-protection ...

The Lakers have finally settled down and are letting their major talent advantage over the Rockets take over.

They will need to keep this up to keep the Rockets at bay in the fourth.

Wow.

:)

what a shot ... Though there you saw the difference between Battier/Artes. Battier would have had a hand up, there´s no way Braynt has time to take another dribble there ...
Rockets are self destructing. Yao misses a couple so you go away from him ? No way ... Bryant did a terrific job denying Battier (aka "the one guy that can and does pass to the post consistently") the ball.
Artest´s shot selöection is all-time-bad.

I´m getting a Ron Artest vodoo-doll as soon as i´ll get up in the morning ... If sanyone blames this on Yao i´m going ballistic. He works his ass off and his teammates don´t execute at all. Battier is the only exception, who btw just is a terrific entry passer. The one to Artest a couple minutes ago was awesome.
If the Lakers hit their shots they are tough to beat.

Bryant with the dagger. Yao is limping ...

And that Kobe three (4th quarter) was the dagger. This one is over.

Reputations work both ways for referees. There's no way that's a flagrant 2 if it's anyone other than Ron Artest.

Absolutely very weak call there

Lol @ Artest.

I wonder what kind of wacky interview tidbit he'll give out next.

Yao with what looks like a pretty heavy bruise on his right knee too , propably carry over from game 1 ... And that´s sth that isn´t coming out of nowhere, might have bothered him a long time before that obvious limping ...

A Flagrant 2 ??? :eek: No one else but Artest gets thrown out for that, no one.

and @ the rockets : Quit fouling allready ...

props to Kobe for that statement on the foul by Artest.

Lakers are just too deep. No one in the West can hang with them for 7 games. Don't know how Artest gets a Flagrant 2 for that one. Especially with what we've seen from these playoffs.

That was just a hard foul, not a flagrant. It had no bearing on the outcome of the game though.

Chuck Daly died today:

Chuck Daly, Hall of Fame coach, dies at 78 - ESPN

I can't believe he was 78.

Well, I guess I can. Just one of those things that makes you feel old.

I loved Chuck Daly

Why is there only 1 playoff game on a Saturday?

Edit: Nevermind, my directv guide is just being stupid as apparently there is another game soon.

Dola -

How is that not called a foul before the shot?

The NBA continues to show it's a joke.

Texas Rangers or Dallas Mavs - what is the over/under of a championship in the next 25 years?

This has to be called. Then again, why in the world doesn´t wright simply wraps his arms arround him, swipe at the ball or whatever ...
Seeing Dirk there was heartbreaking. The guy just broke down inside when that final buzzer sounded and just had all life sucked out of him, with all the drama in his personal life and now this ...
Dallas though simply failed to execute late. They didn´t get Dirk the ball in decent spots, way too much dribling nescessary for Nowitzki on all 4th quarter shots. Kidd missed him on a couple entry passes and Howard was just playing out of control the last 5 minutes after reentering ...

Should have been called as an intentional foul. Two shots and the ball.

:lol: come on now, you are being silly here, aren´t you ? A Bumb on the baseline is not exactly a clear path foul ... Every foul in theese situations is "intentional", but that´s not even in the rule book. There is no special punishment for an intentional foul on the ball.
It´s 1 shot and the ball also, no ?

NBA.com - RULE NO. 12-FOULS AND PENALTIES

Wright made a mistake though. Not a clear enough foul and then he quit playing expecting the whistle. That´s just a mental breakdown. Somehow i´d wish for Dirk to get the hell out of Dallas and be a complimentary 2nd star somewhere earlier than later.

Of course I am being silly. But that was as "intentional" a foul as you can get. It goes back to the discussion of the league creating "special" foul categories that IMO over-legislate the game.

Dola,

It was hilarious to see the Mavs begging for a foul call after spending the previous 47 minutes protesting foul calls.

They just announced on ABC that Yao is out for the playoffs due to a hairline fracture. Disappointing as I was looking forward to the Rockets pushing the Lakers and hopefully upsetting them.

What happened in his personal life?

http://www.nbcdfw.com/sports/basketb...zkis-Home.html

LeBron is so much fun to watch.

Sort of the polar opposite of the quit-once-we're-ahead Hawks.

That whole damned group isn't worth a bucket of warm spit and it was refreshing to hear the crowd start to get that realization in the 4th quarter. Please, Hamilton ON, you want a franchise from Atlanta? Take the Hawks.

That OOP in the first quarter was insane.

I've hated Danny Ferry since I was about 14 but I will admit he built a great cast to surround Bron

I agree. I was just thinking that I can't wait to have a son, so he can say he got to watch the greatest basketball player who ever lived.

That being said, would anyone be surprised if it came out tomorrow that LeBro is on steroids. I mean, his career/body path isn't that different from A-rod, and he's the same size as Julius Peppers. I'm not saying he's not the greatest basketball player I've ever seen, but it just seems odd that in this day and age no one seems to have even broached the subject.

Jordan is coming back?

He has had an NBA body since he was a junior in HS and just built on it from there. Although nothing surprises me. I'm just going with off the charts genetic freak.

Yao out for the post season.

Yao out for remainder of postseason - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

It must be a conspiracy that caused Yao to get hurt.

Imagine had 'Melo missed that shot? Denver would be screaming for a foul

:(

I don't know who the guy who was trying to foul was, but he didn't help himself out by putting his hands up in the air after making the hack. The foul also should have been harder.

I agree, you need to wrap that player up. I don't really have a problem with the no call there.