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ISiddiqui 04-19-2009 06:29 PM

Farnsworth being a sunk cost actually helps the side that wants to get rid of him, actually. To quote:

Sunk costs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

In traditional microeconomic theory, only variable costs are relevant to a decision. Traditional economics proposes that an economic actor does not let sunk costs influence one's decisions, because doing so would not be rationally assessing a decision exclusively on its own merits. The decision-maker may make rational decisions according to their own incentives; these incentives may dictate different decisions than would be dictated by efficiency or profitability, and this is considered an incentive problem and distinct from a sunk cost problem.



Behavioral economics proposes the opposite: that sunk costs greatly affect actors' decisions, because humans are inherently loss aversive and thus normally act irrationally when making economic decisions.

sterlingice 04-19-2009 07:00 PM

I would argue the primary reason Royals fans are ticked at him has to do with his salary. Don't get me wrong- people are mad because he's lost 3 games (more than the rest of the team combined) but they are disproportionally mad because he got stupid money, money that could have been better spent on, say, another bat.

In short, you can't change what he was paid so quit making bad decisions based on visceral feelings. He can be a useful arm so suggest getting rid of him just because he's paid a lot (and has been badly misused).

SI

DeToxRox 04-19-2009 07:03 PM

Porcello pitched a gem today. This kid is going to be special.

Philliesfan980 04-19-2009 07:19 PM

Nice comeback win from the Phils today, but I still don't have a good feeling about this season. The bats will get hot later in the summer, but I'm not sure if we'll be able to recapture the magic that was the 2008 bullpen and the overall solid bench play. Lidge looks very shaky so far this year, in all honesty, he looked shaky during the later part of 2008, but it was masked by winning the series.

RedKingGold 04-19-2009 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 1996028)
Nice comeback win from the Phils today, but I still don't have a good feeling about this season. The bats will get hot later in the summer, but I'm not sure if we'll be able to recapture the magic that was the 2008 bullpen and the overall solid bench play. Lidge looks very shaky so far this year, in all honesty, he looked shaky during the later part of 2008, but it was masked by winning the series.


I'm not sure if it's Lidge or the bullpen as much as it is the absence of Carlos Ruiz.

Just look at Lidge's pitch choices last night. He saved his slider for a "strike-out" pitch that never had the opportunity to arrive. Carlos was very good at handling Lidge and the bull-pen last year.

In the past few games, it's become apparent that Coste does not do a good job communicating with Philadelphia's pitchers for whatever reason. While Coste does have a better bat than Ruiz, I think we really underrated Carlo's contribution behind the plate last year.

Philliesfan980 04-19-2009 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold (Post 1996032)
I'm not sure if it's Lidge or the bullpen as much as it is the absence of Carlos Ruiz.

Just look at Lidge's pitch choices last night. He saved his slider for a "strike-out" pitch that never had the opportunity to arrive. Carlos was very good at handling Lidge and the bull-pen last year.

In the past few games, it's become apparent that Coste does not do a good job communicating with Philadelphia's pitchers for whatever reason. While Coste does have a better bat than Ruiz, I think we really underrated Carlo's contribution behind the plate last year.


Good point, and I agree. I'm surprised that Coste is still on the team to be honest. I'd really like to see them play a lot more of Marson in Ruiz's absense. I realize he's young, and a little raw in some areas, but I'd like to see him get an honest chance for the 15 days Ruiz is on the DL. In that time, they can make an assessment on whether Marson can backup Ruiz for the rest of the year and drop Coste.

I know everyone in this city loves Coste, but he rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it's just because he's not a high energy guy, but he always has really bad body language out there. He looks completely disinterested, and this "it's me against the world" mentality that he seems to continue to carry is getting old. He's had his 3 years of fame, but it's time to go in my opinion.

RedKingGold 04-19-2009 07:52 PM

When the Phils acquired Paulino, I took it as a sign that Coste was done (primarily b/c Paulino's skill is mainly as a defensive guy). So, I was surprised to see Philly keep Coste in the first place, let alone let him see the significant time he's played thus far.

Philliesfan980 04-19-2009 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold (Post 1996064)
When the Phils acquired Paulino, I took it as a sign that Coste was done (primarily b/c Paulino's skill is mainly as a defensive guy). So, I was surprised to see Philly keep Coste in the first place, let alone let him see the significant time he's played thus far.


Same here, I think that was the gameplan by the Phils brass, but Paulino was pretty bad in spring training.

I know it's early, but I'm a little worried about Dobbs. It looks like he might have been a one year wonder.

ISiddiqui 04-19-2009 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1996014)
I would argue the primary reason Royals fans are ticked at him has to do with his salary. Don't get me wrong- people are mad because he's lost 3 games (more than the rest of the team combined) but they are disproportionally mad because he got stupid money, money that could have been better spent on, say, another bat.

In short, you can't change what he was paid so quit making bad decisions based on visceral feelings. He can be a useful arm so suggest getting rid of him just because he's paid a lot (and has been badly misused).

SI


You know, or his ERA+ of 30 (yes, 30) so far this season ;).

sterlingice 04-19-2009 09:23 PM

Wow. The Nats made some wholesale moves after blowing three straight leads. 3 RPs and a catcher down and 4 more Ps brought up.

But at least Zimmerman got signed to a long term deal :)

SI

JonInMiddleGA 04-19-2009 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1996135)
Wow. The Nats made some wholesale moves after blowing three straight leads. 3 RPs and a catcher down and 4 more Ps brought up.


From the espn.com article
reconstructing their ineffective relief corps -- which had a 6.48 ERA in 41 2/3 innings

To put that ERA in perspective, it's almost a full run better than the Braves bullpen ERA (7.36).

sterlingice 04-19-2009 09:55 PM

Farnsworth 0-3 16.20 ERA
Other Royals 7-2 2.62 ERA

(if my back of a napkin sketch is correct)

SI

cartman 04-19-2009 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shkspr (Post 1995893)
And once again, it's 5-5 going into the bottom of the 9th. Hillman can bring in either Farnsworth or Soria. Keep in mind that if you give up even a single run, you LOSE. Who does he choose?

And of COURSE Farnsworth gives up a homer to the first batter he faces. You knew he would back in the eighth.


I went to that game today. My cousin also brought his three year old to his first game ever. The kid is a serious baseball nut. He had a blast. He went crazy when the walk-off homer was hit.

SackAttack 04-20-2009 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold (Post 1996032)
I'm not sure if it's Lidge or the bullpen as much as it is the absence of Carlos Ruiz.


No, it's Lidge.

He's on my fantasy team, so his performance shouldn't shock anybody. ;)

JonInMiddleGA 04-20-2009 03:22 AM

Fairly cool story on the one of the Braves rookies ... the 21 year old college student who is Kenshin Kawakami's full-time interpreter.
Interpreter always on hand for Kawakami | ajc.com

Karlifornia 04-20-2009 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 1996314)
Fairly cool story on the one of the Braves rookies ... the 21 year old college student who is Kenshin Kawakami's full-time interpreter.
Interpreter always on hand for Kawakami | ajc.com


Thanks for the link, Jon. The modesty and humility of the Japanese never ceases to amaze me.

RedKingGold 04-20-2009 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack (Post 1996303)
No, it's Lidge.

He's on my fantasy team, so his performance shouldn't shock anybody. ;)


So, it's really your fault then.

Butter 04-20-2009 06:42 AM

The Reds offense has been as bad as advertised so far, yet they're 6-5 thanks to some top-notch pitching and occasionally top-notch defense (despite the 3 errors yesterday, 2 of which occurred in the first inning, and led to no runs so were harmless).

The Reds have won 4 of 6 on their current roadtrip, and have maybe 8 hits total in 6 games. Alright, that's an exaggeration, but they can't hit much.

lordscarlet 04-20-2009 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 1996146)
From the espn.com article
reconstructing their ineffective relief corps -- which had a 6.48 ERA in 41 2/3 innings

To put that ERA in perspective, it's almost a full run better than the Braves bullpen ERA (7.36).


Don't forget that the Nationals blew 4 saves in 3 games (3 games in a row)

lordscarlet 04-20-2009 04:26 PM

Dola, the Braves come to town tonight, so we, so we'll see whose pitching is worse. :)

JonInMiddleGA 04-20-2009 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1995203)
As Boyer first into the category of "longtime Brave farmhand", I'm sure Dayton Moore will be fitting him for a Royals jersey soon enough


Dayton must have been too busy admiring Farnsworth's stats.

Braves send pitcher Boyer to Cardinals | ajc.com

The Braves traded reliever Blaine Boyer to the St. Louis Cardinals Monday for outfielder Brian Barton.

Boyer, a Marietta native who had spent nine years with the Braves organization, had been designated for assignment Saturday after he struggled out of the gate this season.

Boyer had allowed six runs in 1-1/3 innings over three games for a 40.50 ERA and had struggled since the middle of last summer. He had a 14.43 ERA in 25 appearances since last July 26. Boyer will be assigned to the Cardinals’ major league roster.

For him, the Braves acquired the 27-year-old Barton, a corner outfielder, who will be assigned to AAA Gwinnett. He made his major league debut for the Cardinals last year after he was taken in the Rule 5 draft in December 2007 from the Indians.

Barton has hit .310 in 383 minor league games from 2005-2009. He hit .268 in 82 games for the Cardinals last year, with two homers and 13 RBIs.

lordscarlet 04-20-2009 05:54 PM

Jordan Zimmermann makes his first MLB start tonight for the Washington Nationals. The fans and the press are expecting a lot out of this kid, we'll see how it goes -- he has not had a lot of starts at higher levels, but he was lights out in ST.

Ksyrup 04-21-2009 06:58 AM

Joe Kerrigan's a pretty good pitching coach. I know it's early, but he's got the Pirates pitching staff pretty well straightened out so far.

gstelmack 04-21-2009 09:24 AM

Elijah Dukes of Washington Nationals fined, but Little League says it will pay - ESPN

My question on the whole Elijah Dukes / benching / fine / Little League bit is if in fact he was "giving back to the community", why'd they have to pay him $500 to do it?

lordscarlet 04-21-2009 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordscarlet (Post 1997454)
Jordan Zimmermann makes his first MLB start tonight for the Washington Nationals. The fans and the press are expecting a lot out of this kid, we'll see how it goes -- he has not had a lot of starts at higher levels, but he was lights out in ST.


Well, he pretty much lived up to his billing. He is 22 years old and allowed 2 runs in 6 innings for his first MLB start. He gave up 6 hits, a walk, 1 HR and SO 3. He leads the Nationals starters in ERA by a good margin, granted he has fewer innings. I'm sure he will have his struggles this year, but it is good to see one of the team's pitching prospects live up to his billing.

DeToxRox 04-21-2009 09:55 AM

I am amazed at the fact it seems like Elijah Dukes seems to have become a new person. I am not sure if it's just a cosmetic change or not, but he seems to finally get it.

lordscarlet 04-21-2009 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 1997979)
I am amazed at the fact it seems like Elijah Dukes seems to have become a new person. I am not sure if it's just a cosmetic change or not, but he seems to finally get it.


I hope so. :) He clearly gets angry at bad calls, but he mostly keeps it to himself. His personal issues have either cleared up or been hidden well. He is a monster (in a good way) at the plate and in the field, though.

JonInMiddleGA 04-21-2009 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordscarlet (Post 1997968)
Well, he pretty much lived up to his billing. He is 22 years old and allowed 2 runs in 6 innings for his first MLB start. He gave up 6 hits, a walk, 1 HR and SO 3.


I think the more impressive thing to me about him (considering how incredibly poorly the Braves tend to do over the past several years against pitchers they've never seen before) was his performance after giving up the homer to Diaz.

K swinging to end the 4th
BB, bunt into DP, pop up to end the 5th
ground out, K swinging, ground out to end the 6th

0/6 with a walk after giving up a home run is pretty solid stuff for your major league debut IMO.

Ksyrup 04-21-2009 10:29 AM

Someone compared Dukes to a poor man's Sheffield a few days ago (probably Neyer...?). He's not as good, but he's got similar problems at that age and enough talent that he should continue to get chances. Would be a nice story if he turned it around and had a nice career.

lordscarlet 04-21-2009 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 1998035)
I think the more impressive thing to me about him (considering how incredibly poorly the Braves tend to do over the past several years against pitchers they've never seen before) was his performance after giving up the homer to Diaz.

K swinging to end the 4th
BB, bunt into DP, pop up to end the 5th
ground out, K swinging, ground out to end the 6th

0/6 with a walk after giving up a home run is pretty solid stuff for your major league debut IMO.


He also got out of some jams. Overall it was a great first start. He definitely didn't look rattled by the pressure, the rain delay, or anything else. I am considering getting a Zimmermann jersey to compliment my Zimmerman jersey. :)

Logan 04-21-2009 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordscarlet (Post 1998065)
He also got out of some jams. Overall it was a great first start. He definitely didn't look rattled by the pressure, the rain delay, or anything else. I am considering getting a Zimmermann jersey to compliment my Zimmerman jersey. :)


Make sure it says "NatiOnals" on the front.

sterlingice 04-21-2009 11:01 AM

Saw that story :D

SI

lordscarlet 04-21-2009 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1998073)
Make sure it says "NatiOnals" on the front.


Actually, it would be awesome to get one that doesn't. ;)

DeToxRox 04-21-2009 11:57 AM

Greinke vs Porcello on Friday, SI. Should be a fun one. I think we'll be seeing that one for the next decade or so. At least I hope.

sterlingice 04-21-2009 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 1998159)
Greinke vs Porcello on Friday, SI. Should be a fun one. I think we'll be seeing that one for the next decade or so. At least I hope.


I had seen that- I'd enjoy watching if it were on tv anywhere :)

Probably will be listening, tho. Maybe MLBN will have some look-ins

SI

sterlingice 04-21-2009 12:48 PM

Jayson Stark was on 810 in KC today talking about the Cubs bullpen. Is this how it's working in Chicago with Pinella? He was talking about Gregg being the closer but they really know Marmol is the better guy so he gets used for the higher leverage situations in the game.

Basically seems like what we've talked about a lot- the best pitcher is used for the highest leverage situations while the closer is basically a closer in name only to do those cushy 2 and 3 run 9th inning saves.

SI

Lathum 04-21-2009 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack (Post 1997951)
Elijah Dukes of Washington Nationals fined, but Little League says it will pay - ESPN

My question on the whole Elijah Dukes / benching / fine / Little League bit is if in fact he was "giving back to the community", why'd they have to pay him $500 to do it?


My understanding of it is the little league raised the $500 once they learned he was fined. More of a statement thing.

Lathum 04-21-2009 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69 (Post 1996347)
The Reds offense has been as bad as advertised so far, yet they're 6-5 thanks to some top-notch pitching and occasionally top-notch defense (despite the 3 errors yesterday, 2 of which occurred in the first inning, and led to no runs so were harmless).

The Reds have won 4 of 6 on their current roadtrip, and have maybe 8 hits total in 6 games. Alright, that's an exaggeration, but they can't hit much.


Phillips really needs to start hitting in the middle of the lineup.

Atocep 04-21-2009 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1998206)
Jayson Stark was on 810 in KC today talking about the Cubs bullpen. Is this how it's working in Chicago with Pinella? He was talking about Gregg being the closer but they really know Marmol is the better guy so he gets used for the higher leverage situations in the game.

Basically seems like what we've talked about a lot- the best pitcher is used for the highest leverage situations while the closer is basically a closer in name only to do those cushy 2 and 3 run 9th inning saves.

SI


It doesn't match up with Pinella's actions, though. Marmol was named the closer out of spring training, blew his first save opportunity, and then the job was given to Gregg.

gstelmack 04-21-2009 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1998251)
My understanding of it is the little league raised the $500 once they learned he was fined. More of a statement thing.


Yes, but it also says he was paid $500 for the appearance as well. So it's costing the Little League $1000 for him to have appeared.

I get why they may want to pay the fine, I just don't get the disconnect between "he was paid $500 for the appearance" and "he was giving back to the community".

Unless the article confused the situation and misstated the facts (gasp!).

Logan 04-21-2009 01:38 PM

$500 for an appearance by a current major leaguer seems extremely cheap, so it may be in that sense. I have no clue about this, but maybe in order to promote an appearance or to raise funds from a baseball player appearance, you need to pay some sort of minimum fee?

Butter 04-21-2009 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1998253)
Phillips really needs to start hitting in the middle of the lineup.


It's been suggested that Phillips be moved down to 6th in the order and to move Edwin Encarnacion up to 4th. I don't know if that would change very much, but Phillips is a double play machine with men on base. He is 0 for his last 17 and is indeed killing the middle of the order right now. Yet they're still 7-5, and Phillips will be given another few weeks at least to see if he can hit his way out of this slump, or if indeed his move to cleanup was ill-advised.

JPhillips 04-21-2009 02:09 PM

Phillips' history says he shouldn't be batting fourth. He has a below league average OPS for his career. Sixth is probably too high, but when you have to find spots for Gonzalez and Hernandez it's probably best.

Lathum 04-21-2009 07:31 PM

When did Rick Ankiel become a porn star?

JonInMiddleGA 04-21-2009 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1998302)
$500 for an appearance by a current major leaguer seems extremely cheap, so it may be in that sense.


That's how I took it. Standard I've run across for years is in the several thousand dollar range even for low end guys.

Hell, $500 won't even roll a middling morning show talent in market #125 out for an hour.

zums 04-21-2009 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 1998266)
It doesn't match up with Pinella's actions, though. Marmol was named the closer out of spring training, blew his first save opportunity, and then the job was given to Gregg.


ummm... wha? gregg was named the closer out of spring training after he gave up 0 runs all spring and marmol missed some time with the WBC. marmol even made some comments about how there was no actual competition but then repented after a "nice little chat" with piniella.

gregg has actually blown one save and lost a game where he came in with the score tied, while this role with marmol was on display this past week vs. the cardinals when cotts came in and walked two and nobody out and he gets (i believe) ludwick, pujols, and duncan with no balls leaving the infield.

any cub fan i know was rejoicing when gregg was named the closer so marmol was free to put out any fires in the 6th, 7th, or 8th inning.

JonInMiddleGA 04-21-2009 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zums (Post 1998828)
ummm... wha? gregg was named the closer out of spring training after he gave up 0 runs all spring and marmol missed some time with the WBC.


Glad I'm not the only person who remembered this. It's why Gregg was drafted in every fantasy league I'm in & Marmol wasn't.

Logan 04-21-2009 08:24 PM

Haha yeah, Marmol was drafted in mine because it was before the announcement...I picked Gregg up off waivers.

JS19 04-21-2009 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1998792)
When did Rick Ankiel become a porn star?



Haha, that is a pretty sweet 'stache he's rocking out there.

Lathum 04-21-2009 09:56 PM

horribly lazy play by Beltran

DeToxRox 04-21-2009 09:59 PM

Holy balls. Brandon Inge with an insane play to get a force at home with the bases loaded and 1 out vs Anaheim. That is going to be in the running for best "web gem" of the year.

Ksyrup 04-21-2009 10:00 PM

Yep, just coming here to post that. And a hell of a play by Laird to stay on the plate to get the out and sacrifice his ankle.

DeToxRox 04-21-2009 10:00 PM

Dola. Inge's play wasn't a dive or anything either. It was an absurdly athletic play with an impossible strike home somehow and Laird made a helluva play to hold on.

I may not be the biggest Inge fan but he is bringing it so far this year.

DeToxRox 04-21-2009 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1998946)
Yep, just coming here to post that. And a hell of a play by Laird to stay on the plate to get the out and sacrifice his ankle.


Armando is looking at a 4 or 5 inning outing tonight max. At least Nate or Bonine can get some innings now.

DeToxRox 04-21-2009 10:03 PM

And Granderson hits his 2nd HR of the night.

Chief Rum 04-22-2009 12:18 AM

Angels came back and won this one. Absolutely needed this one after that mess of a road trip we came off of. Weaver really settled down and kept the Angels in the game long enough for the hitters to scratch across enough runs for the win. And even more importantly, the bullpen didn't blow it.

stevew 04-22-2009 12:33 AM

Joe Kerrigan is working wonders with the Pirates pitching staff. Of course the sample size is tiny. But I doubt they had 10 QS in several different months last year. The Pirates don't really have major league hitters at several positions, and Ryan Doumit is out for 8-10 weeks. But maybe this will be the year the streak ends?

Logan 04-22-2009 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1998941)
horribly lazy play by Beltran


Only a Met could turn a great, heads-up, hard-effort play into complete shit within 90 feet.

JonInMiddleGA 04-22-2009 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew (Post 1999046)
Joe Kerrigan is working wonders with the Pirates pitching staff. Of course the sample size is tiny. But I doubt they had 10 QS in several different months last year.


Okay, this one was a bit of a pain to do but ...

The Pirates had a league low 66 QS last year, but they did have at least 10 in every month of the season except 1.

April - 10
May - 10
June - 13
July - 6
Aug - 16
Sept - 11

And now we both know ;)

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-22-2009 08:04 AM

Brian Bannister got called up yesterday by the Royals and will be taking over the #5 spot in the rotation. Hopefully he can perform well and stay there. Now if we can just hurry up and get Hochaver up here to get Sir Sidney out of the rotation, we'd actually have a very good rotation in place.

Lathum 04-22-2009 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1999125)
Only a Met could turn a great, heads-up, hard-effort play into complete shit within 90 feet.


yep

David Wright scores there every time.

Ksyrup 04-22-2009 08:40 AM

Forget Beltran, WTF was Daniel Murphy doing in LF? Was that an attempt at a backflip and catch at the same time?

sterlingice 04-22-2009 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1999139)
Brian Bannister got called up yesterday by the Royals and will be taking over the #5 spot in the rotation. Hopefully he can perform well and stay there. Now if we can just hurry up and get Hochaver up here to get Sir Sidney out of the rotation, we'd actually have a very good rotation in place.


May 5th is your day (or is it 6th?)- in theory, it's when Hochevar's service clock buys them another year since they kept him in Omaha for a month or so.

SI

lordscarlet 04-22-2009 11:33 AM

Wow, what a game in DC last night. There were a ton of fortunate outs based on mistakes turned into heroics (catching someone taking an extra base on bobbles, etc). There were also some errors and should-have-been errors that went in the Nationals favor.

Joel Hanrahan did not fail to make it tense, though, putting runners on 2nd and 3rd with 0 outs in the 9th.

(I went to the game)

Oh, and the Nationals have sent 5 of their original 25-man roster to the 15 day DL already.

jeff061 04-22-2009 12:21 PM

I scored a ticket to the Sox/Yankees game Friday to the snobbish EMC Club Seats at Fenway. Looking forward to that.

Ronnie Dobbs2 04-22-2009 12:32 PM

Nice! Wonder what the atmosphere will be like. I went once when it was still "walled off" with glass and its was an odd experience. So removed from the game, and people there were reading newspapers. Other than the view and comfort, it was actually kind of a depressing way to watch a game.

Fighter of Foo 04-22-2009 12:45 PM

It's surprisingly open, especially if you're in your actual seat. Just like 2nd level seat at any other ballpark. The snobby bar & everything else on the inside is another matter entirely.

DeToxRox 04-22-2009 11:37 PM

Wow, the Angles pen blows.

Too bad the Tigs might be worse.

SackAttack 04-22-2009 11:44 PM

Those of you on the West Coast might want to watch SportsCenter tonight.

Manny Ramirez hit a pitch from Roy Oswalt so hard, I'm not sure it has made re-entry yet.

Chief Rum 04-23-2009 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2000411)
Wow, the Angles pen blows.

Too bad the Tigs might be worse.


The play of the Angels pen so far this year is mystifying. I mean, the guys blowing games aren't inexperienced guys with no talent filling out a roster, they're legit pitchers with good talent and proven past performance. It's mind boggling what's going on with them right now.

Shields shouldn't even be on a mound. That guy needs to go a psychiatrist or something.

DeToxRox 04-23-2009 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 2000445)
The play of the Angels pen so far this year is mystifying. I mean, the guys blowing games aren't inexperienced guys with no talent filling out a roster, they're legit pitchers with good talent and proven past performance. It's mind boggling what's going on with them right now.

Shields shouldn't even be on a mound. That guy needs to go a psychiatrist or something.


Yep. That was just crazy. Total meltdown. Interesting to see how tomorrow goes with Edwin Jackon on the bump for Detroit. He's been very good but this is about when he gets shelled bad.

bhlloy 04-23-2009 01:12 AM

I'm not surprised Shields is having such a crappy year. Seems like K-Rod has been bailing him out of jams for a couple of years now, Angels should have got something for him while he still had some value. His ERA is very misleading, 11 blown saves over the last 2 seasons for a guy that very rarely pitches the 9th is more telling. I've never seen him look comfortable in a real pressure situation.

Fuentes is the bigger disappointment - how the hell does a pitcher leave Coors Field and look worse?

bhlloy 04-23-2009 01:13 AM

DOLA - damn it sucks to go look up the Angels stats and see Adenhart at the top of the list with a 0.00 ERA. So sad.

Philliesfan980 04-23-2009 06:32 AM

I don't think this was posted yet, but Forbes has released their annual report on MLB teams. How anyone can continue to support the Nats (Sorry Lordscarlet) is beyond me

The Business Of Baseball - Forbes.com

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-23-2009 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 2000482)
I don't think this was posted yet, but Forbes has released their annual report on MLB teams. How anyone can continue to support the Nats (Sorry Lordscarlet) is beyond me

The Business Of Baseball - Forbes.com


It's going to be really interesting to see just how far the Royals shoot up that chart next year. They're selling tickets like crazy in the new (renovated) stadium at increased price points. Management also mentioned that concession/food sales are up quite a bit over what they expected. If they can keep the record around .500 or better, the bottom line will increase exponentially.

Bannister looked good last night and looked like the Bannister of 2007. Hopefully that can continue. If Meche can just squeak out a win tonight, the Royals would be headed home off a 4-2 road trip into a weekend series where both the Friday and Saturday games are expected to be sellouts. That Greinke start on Friday night in front of 40K should be a hoot.

Philliesfan980 04-23-2009 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2000508)
It's going to be really interesting to see just how far the Royals shoot up that chart next year. They're selling tickets like crazy in the new (renovated) stadium at increased price points. Management also mentioned that concession/food sales are up quite a bit over what they expected. If they can keep the record around .500 or better, the bottom line will increase exponentially.

Bannister looked good last night and looked like the Bannister of 2007. Hopefully that can continue. If Meche can just squeak out a win tonight, the Royals would be headed home off a 4-2 road trip into a weekend series where both the Friday and Saturday games are expected to be sellouts. That Greinke start on Friday night in front of 40K should be a hoot.



Yeah, I haven't seen Grienke pitch a whole game yet, but I'm going to watch him via my MLB.COM subscription on Friday night. You're right with Bannister, Grienke, and Meche, they should be able to hang in the race all year.

sterlingice 04-23-2009 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2000508)
Bannister looked good last night and looked like the Bannister of 2007. Hopefully that can continue. If Meche can just squeak out a win tonight, the Royals would be headed home off a 4-2 road trip into a weekend series where both the Friday and Saturday games are expected to be sellouts. That Greinke start on Friday night in front of 40K should be a hoot.


Let's not get too excited about Banni just yet. Yes, he pitched 6 shutout innings. But he got 1 K and walked 2- those are some warning signs as he needs more Ks and less BBs to be effective and not just lucky. He was running deep counts and getting hit hard the second and third time through the lineup but they were going to people. He did induce a ton of ground balls, which is great- except our infield defense isn't exactly exciting- he needs to do that to succeed.

Still, small sample size and I can guarantee it was better than HoRam being run out there. A nice win and finally Soria gets in after maddeningly not being used for the last 9 days. We're a better team if Banni and Hochevar pitch well enough to be our 4/5- let's see if that happens.

SI

Ronnie Dobbs2 04-23-2009 08:17 AM

I really hope the Royals can keep it up. Always loved Brett growing up.

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-23-2009 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2000530)
Let's not get too excited about Banni just yet. Yes, he pitched 6 shutout innings. But he got 1 K and walked 2- those are some warning signs as he needs more Ks and less BBs to be effective and not just lucky. He was running deep counts and getting hit hard the second and third time through the lineup but they were going to people. He did induce a ton of ground balls, which is great- except our infield defense isn't exactly exciting- he needs to do that to succeed.

SI


Yeah, I couldn't disagree more with your first assertion about walks and strikeouts. Bannister's first year and a half where he had only 66 walks and 97 strikeouts was where he performed his best (sub 4.00 ERA over that time). Last year, he had only 50+ walks while getting over 130+ strikeouts, but his ERA ballooned to near 6.00 because he was TRYING to strike people out.

Bannister is best when he pitches to contact like he did in 2007. The Royals are much better off with a Brian Bannister that mixes up pitches and throws them for strikes. That often doesn't result in big strikeout numbers since his stuff isn't overpowering by any means, but his movement is good, which results in bad contact by batters. It's not sexy by any means, but you can have a long career as a MLB pitcher by just throwing strikes while mixing it up.

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-23-2009 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 2000517)
Yeah, I haven't seen Grienke pitch a whole game yet, but I'm going to watch him via my MLB.COM subscription on Friday night. You're right with Bannister, Grienke, and Meche, they should be able to hang in the race all year.


Don't forget Davies. Outside of the first inning or two in his last start, he's been very good thus far. He finished strong last year, so it's not terribly surprising that he's picked up where he left off.

sterlingice 04-23-2009 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2000545)
Yeah, I couldn't disagree more with your first assertion about walks and strikeouts. Bannister's first year and a half where he had only 66 walks and 97 strikeouts was where he performed his best (sub 4.00 ERA over that time). Last year, he had only 50+ walks while getting over 130+ strikeouts, but his ERA ballooned to near 6.00 because he was TRYING to strike people out.

Bannister is best when he pitches to contact like he did in 2007. The Royals are much better off with a Brian Bannister that mixes up pitches and throws them for strikes. That often doesn't result in big strikeout numbers since his stuff isn't overpowering by any means, but his movement is good, which results in bad contact by batters. It's not sexy by any means, but you can have a long career as a MLB pitcher by just throwing strikes while mixing it up.



We'll see. I'd love it to be true. And I agree about last year. Banni is his own worst enemy sometimes. However, it's hard to be even a league average pitcher with his historically low strikeout rates. Pitching to contact if you're a groundball pitcher with great infield defense is his best formula to win with few strikeouts. However, our infield defense is, well, not good. That's going to catch up with him.

SI

Ronnie Dobbs2 04-23-2009 08:48 AM

In 2007 Bannister BABIP was .262, meaning his "pitching to contact" strategy was pretty lucky especially considering he tends to have a very high line drive percentage. Just looking at his stats, 2008 would appear to be the regression to the mean.

sterlingice 04-23-2009 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2000548)
Don't forget Davies. Outside of the first inning or two in his last start, he's been very good thus far. He finished strong last year, so it's not terribly surprising that he's picked up where he left off.


Yeah, if Hiram keeps it up, he has the highest ceiling of the trio (or quartet if you include Ponson) of himself, Hochevar, and Banni.

SI

sterlingice 04-23-2009 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2 (Post 2000558)
In 2007 Bannister BABIP was .262, meaning his "pitching to contact" strategy was pretty lucky especially considering he tends to have a very high line drive percentage. Just looking at his stats, 2008 would appear to be the regression to the mean.


Bannister is not quite your average pitcher. He's a stat geek and he's trying to find ways to beat the numbers. For instance, what MBBF said about last year was true for him- he knew he couldn't maintain that BABIP so he tried to strike more guys out. But it flattened out some of his pitches, he nibbled more and lost control, and he tried too hard for K's which he doesn't have the pitches for.

He has quite a few interviews where he has pointed out things like how he tries to get hitters 0-2 and 1-2 because hitters BABIP is much lower in those counts and how getting ahead leads to better results. If Banni can figure out what is the best formula for him, I suspect he will be one of those guys who is a DIPS outlier because he's trying to game the numbers so he can pitch better.

SI

lordscarlet 04-23-2009 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2000411)
Wow, the Angles pen blows.

Too bad the Tigs might be worse.


And yet neither can hold a candle to the Nationals :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 2000482)
I don't think this was posted yet, but Forbes has released their annual report on MLB teams. How anyone can continue to support the Nats (Sorry Lordscarlet) is beyond me

The Business Of Baseball - Forbes.com


Because we were without a team for 3 decades. :) In waited my entire life to have a home team to root for, and I finally have one. This is only the third season the Lerners have owned the team, and they have spent far more than MLB did. They're getting a rude awakening this year with plummeting attendance -- that number is certainly aided by the new stadium last year. Estimates are that STH numbers are down 8,000.

Ultimately, for me, it's not about the owner (unless it's the O's ;)). If I cared about the owner, I wouldn't follow the Redskins anymore either. It's about the team. It's about the city. It's about supporting local teams. I don't watch the NBA or hockey, but I will route for the Caps and the Wizards given the chance. Same with the DC United. For me, the team transcends the owner.

Now, the argument could be about me putting money in the Lerners' pockets. I can certainly agree with you there. The answer is simply that I enjoy going to baseball games too much to care.

sterlingice 04-23-2009 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2000411)
Wow, the Angles pen blows.

Too bad the Tigs might be worse.


Quote:

Originally Posted by lordscarlet (Post 2000575)
And yet neither can hold a candle to the Nationals :)


The bidding for Kyle Farnsworth (and his contract) starts at one baseball. One? Do I hear one?

(Tigers fans probably know better, but what the heck)

SI

lordscarlet 04-23-2009 09:58 AM

Joel Hanrhan

WLERAGGSCGSHOSVSVOIPHRERHRHBBBSOAVGWHIPGO/AO
SEASON006.437000247.08552139.2671.571.00

Ksyrup 04-23-2009 10:01 AM

Joe Posnanski is an amazing writer. Check out his latest article at SI about pitch counts. Man, if only I could have a job like this!

hxxp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/04/22/pitch.counts/index.html

Philliesfan980 04-23-2009 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordscarlet (Post 2000575)
And yet neither can hold a candle to the Nationals :)



Because we were without a team for 3 decades. :) In waited my entire life to have a home team to root for, and I finally have one. This is only the third season the Lerners have owned the team, and they have spent far more than MLB did. They're getting a rude awakening this year with plummeting attendance -- that number is certainly aided by the new stadium last year. Estimates are that STH numbers are down 8,000.

Ultimately, for me, it's not about the owner (unless it's the O's ;)). If I cared about the owner, I wouldn't follow the Redskins anymore either. It's about the team. It's about the city. It's about supporting local teams. I don't watch the NBA or hockey, but I will route for the Caps and the Wizards given the chance. Same with the DC United. For me, the team transcends the owner.

Now, the argument could be about me putting money in the Lerners' pockets. I can certainly agree with you there. The answer is simply that I enjoy going to baseball games too much to care.



I guess the point that I was trying to get across is the teams with the highest operating incomes (not just as a % of revenue, actual legtimate money in the bank) comes from the teams who play the "Oh, we're too poor to do anything" card.

Assuming these financials are accurate, it's disgusting that these "small market teams" continue to reap the benefits of revenue sharing.

molson 04-23-2009 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 2000634)
I guess the point that I was trying to get across is the teams with the highest operating incomes (not just as a % of revenue, actual legtimate money in the bank) comes from the teams who play the "Oh, we're too poor to do anything" card.

Assuming these financials are accurate, it's disgusting that these "small market teams" continue to reap the benefits of revenue sharing.


I couldn't find the revenue sharing forumula on a quick search, but it really should reward smaller market teams for spending money - maybe some kind of matching payroll kind of system.

And in no universe are Washington or Miami "small markets', but they always get lumped in with in discussions of baseball "unfairness".

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-23-2009 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2000649)
I couldn't find the revenue sharing forumula on a quick search, but it really should reward smaller market teams for spending money - maybe some kind of matching payroll kind of system.

And in no universe are Washington or Miami "small markets', but they always get lumped in with in discussions of baseball "unfairness".


Agreed. There weren't any teams near the top that I would consider a small market team. Minnesota was the highest one I saw, but they obviously spend a lot of money on their farm system, so I really don't think they can be labeled as not spending their money wisely to build a competitive team.

Miami is one of the largest TV markets in the nation.

Philliesfan980 04-23-2009 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2000649)
I couldn't find the revenue sharing forumula on a quick search, but it really should reward smaller market teams for spending money - maybe some kind of matching payroll kind of system.

And in no universe are Washington or Miami "small markets', but they always get lumped in with in discussions of baseball "unfairness".



Yeah, I agree with what you've said. I'm not really that well versed on the revenue sharing system that the MLB is currently operating under, but I believe I read somewhere that it's an equal split type system?

Again, it's just plan obnoxious that the owners who make the most are the ones who generally stock their teams the least. When that happens, there is something seriously wrong. The fans of these teams are really getting punched in the gut.

JonInMiddleGA 04-23-2009 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 2000659)
When that happens, there are owners who have a clear understanding of how to run a business in an efficient & profitable manner


Fixed that for you.

Ronnie Dobbs2 04-23-2009 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 2000663)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980
When that happens, there are owners who have an inability to look at long-term gains versus short-term gains.


Fixed that for you.


Double fixed.

sterlingice 04-23-2009 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 2000630)
Joe Posnanski is an amazing writer. Check out his latest article at SI about pitch counts. Man, if only I could have a job like this!

hxxp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/04/22/pitch.counts/index.html


I love Poz and glad he's getting some national attention.

The APBA unusual plays chart reference is the baseball (re: less nerdy) equivalent of the AD&D crit chart.

That .390/.958/.780 line at 3-0 must be incorrect. There's no way only 5% of 3-0 counts where something happen end with an out and 95% end with a walk or hit, right?

Also, love this stat: "2. When you DO see them hit it, there's a good chance you will see them hit it a long way. Batters hit 3-0 homers roughly one out of every 10 at-bats."

The one thing I wish he looked at more is an aggregate of what happens when you get to X count. These numbers are just all about the "action pitch". I wish he had another column for each list: "Action Pitch %, Batters hit as action pitch, Batters hit for entire at bat when they reach this count"

SI

Philliesfan980 04-23-2009 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 2000663)
Fixed that for you.



You're absolutely right. The owners are certainly playing within the rules. I guess I would just like to see the rules corrected to make things more fair for teams that are making an honest attempt to put a winning product on the field.

Philliesfan980 04-23-2009 10:54 AM

To kind of add to my thoughts, I believe that sports franchises have some level of civic responsibility to their fan base. Sports franchises these days don't have a problem accepting goverment handouts for new stadiums, and in return, I think they owe an obligation for that. That obligation of course is hard to measure.

Again, the ownership groups aren't doing anything against the rules, it's the system that's broken.

Atocep 04-23-2009 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 2000673)
You're absolutely right. The owners are certainly playing within the rules. I guess I would just like to see the rules corrected to make things more fair for teams that are making an honest attempt to put a winning product on the field.


Cities have leverage and don't use it. It makes zero sense for Minnesota and Florida to build ballparks for the Twins and Marlins when they operate the way they do. Cities shouldn't be using taxpayer money to build ballparks anyway, but its absolutely absurd to do so while the team's owner pockets the amount the twins and marlins do.

lordscarlet 04-23-2009 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 2000634)
I guess the point that I was trying to get across is the teams with the highest operating incomes (not just as a % of revenue, actual legtimate money in the bank) comes from the teams who play the "Oh, we're too poor to do anything" card.

Assuming these financials are accurate, it's disgusting that these "small market teams" continue to reap the benefits of revenue sharing.


Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2000649)
I couldn't find the revenue sharing forumula on a quick search, but it really should reward smaller market teams for spending money - maybe some kind of matching payroll kind of system.

And in no universe are Washington or Miami "small markets', but they always get lumped in with in discussions of baseball "unfairness".



I don't know that the Lerners ever said they were too poor. Not sure, though. I also don't know who calls Washington a small market team. The people that do are stupid. We're in the top 10 markets in the US. People think this is "not a baseball town" so they say it is small market. The Redskins are the second most profitable sports franchise in the world. This is not a small market town.

sterlingice 04-23-2009 01:20 PM

(so far today, and hopefully that's it for him with 101 pitches on the board- we should see Cruz for 8, Soria for 9)
IP H R ER BB K HR Season ERA
G. Meche 7.0 2 1 1 0 7 0 2.00


So, yeah, 2+ years into that contract, it looks like Dayton Moore was the only one right about Gil. Never in my wildest dreams could he have done what he did and that is looking a hell of a lot like $55M well spent.

SI


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