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-   -   Alright Boyz, Here We Go! The FM2008/WWSM2008 First Impressions Thread (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=61546)

bulletsponge 11-25-2007 06:05 PM

WTFF!!!! i think i just found a bug

i just got promoted to the EPL, and the new season started. i was given 29,500,000 in tv revenue for the new season, but it doesnt show up in my financials. this is bull shit!!!!!!! how can i possibly stay in the EPL with only 2m in the bank

Critch 11-25-2007 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 1599613)
*cough*

your 2010 World Cup Champions...IVORY COAST

2-1 winners over England via a Yaya Toure strike in the 70th minute


That's stupid and unrealistic. England will never reach the final.

DaddyTorgo 11-25-2007 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critch (Post 1599790)
That's stupid and unrealistic. England will never reach the final.

:D

Flasch186 11-26-2007 09:54 PM

I find it very annoying that 7 out of my last 9 games have ended in draws. Many of those miracle last second goals to help the computer tie it up (a few for us too). Very annoying and I wonder how realistic that is.

Marc Vaughan 11-26-2007 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge (Post 1599789)
WTFF!!!! i think i just found a bug

i just got promoted to the EPL, and the new season started. i was given 29,500,000 in tv revenue for the new season, but it doesnt show up in my financials. this is bull shit!!!!!!! how can i possibly stay in the EPL with only 2m in the bank


Its not a bug - please re-read the news item, you recieve the £29.5m on installments throughout the year (as teams do irl).

When calculating the transfer budgets etc. the clubs board will take into account expected profit/loss so this is taken into account.

Blade6119 11-27-2007 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 1600927)
Its not a bug - please re-read the news item, you recieve the £29.5m on installments throughout the year (as teams do irl).

When calculating the transfer budgets etc. the clubs board will take into account expected profit/loss so this is taken into account.


Pwned :p

Toddzilla 11-27-2007 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge (Post 1599789)
WTFF!!!! i think i just found a bug

i just got promoted to the EPL, and the new season started. i was given 29,500,000 in tv revenue for the new season, but it doesnt show up in my financials. this is bull shit!!!!!!! how can i possibly stay in the EPL with only 2m in the bank

Please take the psycho overreactions to non-existent bugs over to the SI forums - you'll fit right in.

bulletsponge 11-27-2007 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 1600927)
Its not a bug - please re-read the news item, you recieve the £29.5m on installments throughout the year (as teams do irl).

When calculating the transfer budgets etc. the clubs board will take into account expected profit/loss so this is taken into account.


hehe thanks. i did take my overreaction to the SI boards and they told me too.

Critch 11-27-2007 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 1600893)
I find it very annoying that 7 out of my last 9 games have ended in draws. Many of those miracle last second goals to help the computer tie it up (a few for us too). Very annoying and I wonder how realistic that is.


It's been like that for a couple of versions now, it's realistic enough, teams that are down by a goal will throw extra players forward and become more attacking in the last 5-10 minutes in the search of an equalizer.

It's important to try and "kill" a game if you're leading late on. My team is 4-4-2 generally, but defending a late lead I'll drop the more defensive of my central midfielders back to DM with a back arrow between the central defenders to go 5 at the back when defending. I'll also put the other CM to more defensive instructions with a barrow back to the DM position, then drop a striker back into midfield. Change to a boring 5-1-3-1 when I don't have the ball.

I'll also change the team instructions, bump up time wasting to often, move tempo to slow, close down less, go to zonal marking and turn off tight marking (you want to contain and fill space, not dive into tackles). Click for counterattack too, good chance to catch them on the break when they are throwing too many forward. I'm still not sure about passing, short passing keeps possession and wastes time, but direct could fit in with counterattack better. I also set my wingers to no forward runs, but run with ball. They can regularly be found unmarked at the sideline, able to run to the corner with the ball to eat up seconds.

Late substitutions for players who are tired also works nicely, get some fresh legs on and waste more valuable seconds too (though I think FM refs are better at adding time on to take account of subs than real refs are).

Still let in late equalizers every now and then, but it's not nearly as regular and frustrating as it used to be.

DaddyTorgo 11-27-2007 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critch (Post 1601084)
It's been like that for a couple of versions now, it's realistic enough, teams that are down by a goal will throw extra players forward and become more attacking in the last 5-10 minutes in the search of an equalizer.

It's important to try and "kill" a game if you're leading late on. My team is 4-4-2 generally, but defending a late lead I'll drop the more defensive of my central midfielders back to DM with a back arrow between the central defenders to go 5 at the back when defending. I'll also put the other CM to more defensive instructions with a barrow back to the DM position, then drop a striker back into midfield. Change to a boring 5-1-3-1 when I don't have the ball.

I'll also change the team instructions, bump up time wasting to often, move tempo to slow, close down less, go to zonal marking and turn off tight marking (you want to contain and fill space, not dive into tackles). Click for counterattack too, good chance to catch them on the break when they are throwing too many forward. I'm still not sure about passing, short passing keeps possession and wastes time, but direct could fit in with counterattack better. I also set my wingers to no forward runs, but run with ball. They can regularly be found unmarked at the sideline, able to run to the corner with the ball to eat up seconds.

Late substitutions for players who are tired also works nicely, get some fresh legs on and waste more valuable seconds too (though I think FM refs are better at adding time on to take account of subs than real refs are).

Still let in late equalizers every now and then, but it's not nearly as regular and frustrating as it used to be.


nice suggestions. and i presume you've got this saved as a tactic so you can quick-switch between it and your regular 4-4-2? ;)

Critch 11-27-2007 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 1601088)
nice suggestions. and i presume you've got this saved as a tactic so you can quick-switch between it and your regular 4-4-2? ;)


Indeed I have :)

Marc Vaughan 11-27-2007 09:45 AM

I have 'pre-set' changes which I do every match pretty much to kill off games - subs especially are a great way of wasting time during the last 15-30 minutes.

Time them for when you're under a bit of pressure if the opposition have built up a head of steam, nothing like having to stand around for a few minutes while someone saunters off to remove their sense of urgency and cohesion while giving your team a chance to regroup and organise themselves (managers do this irl also).

Flasch186 11-27-2007 10:13 AM

so do you have to watch the whole game or watch it on "extended"?

Marc Vaughan 11-27-2007 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 1601196)
so do you have to watch the whole game or watch it on "extended"?


Not sure who this was aimed at - but if you mean in order to tell whether its a good time to do a sub and relieve some pressure, I normally play on quick speed and only important events shown in 2d.

I do my subs based on the amount of clips coming up for the opposition team and a 'gut instinct' on the posession bar (if they have lots more posession than me late in a game then its normally a good time to do a sub).

Passacaglia 11-27-2007 10:46 AM

What are clips?

Mizzou B-ball fan 11-27-2007 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia (Post 1601216)
What are clips?


I think he means the amount of highlights for one team or the other. If a lot of the highlights are popping up for the other team, it may be time to make a change.

DaddyTorgo 11-27-2007 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 1601164)
I have 'pre-set' changes which I do every match pretty much to kill off games - subs especially are a great way of wasting time during the last 15-30 minutes.

Time them for when you're under a bit of pressure if the opposition have built up a head of steam, nothing like having to stand around for a few minutes while someone saunters off to remove their sense of urgency and cohesion while giving your team a chance to regroup and organise themselves (managers do this irl also).


MV CN U PST UR PRESET CHNGES AN UR SUPER-SECRET TACKTIC PLZ?!?!?! MY CNFRENCE TEAM NEEDS 2 OWN MANU AWAY TO WIN FA CUP PLZ!??!?!?! URGENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

Sweed 11-27-2007 10:35 PM

The subject of keeping up with the match commentary while watching a game in 2d came up on the SI forum.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/6892067363

I watch the whole 90 minutes of my matches in 2d at high speed. I'm sure that's not the norm but it's the only way I feel like I know how my players are actually playing. As the SI poster brings up it's hard to keep up with both and you can miss some important hints if you don't have time to read some of the comments at important times of the match.

Since things on the SI forum get lost in the noise so fast I thought I'd throw this out here and hope Marc V sees it and comments if he sees fit. I'll also take a minute when done here and add the idea to the post at SI.

Could SI add a user adjustable delay to the play by play? Zero would be default but the user could input a delay to have the text run .X seconds behind the visual 2d display. ie a shot, tackle, foul, etc occurs you see it and then the text is displayed .1, .2, seconds later or whatever delay you choose to input. I see this being similar to how OOTP lets the user adjust the pbp speed. Only with FM you wouldn't speed up or slow down the pbp, you'd only delay it's being displayed by fractions of a second.

Would this work? Or is there something I'm not considering that would make it hard\impossible to do? Would this be a fairly easy thing for programmers to add? I can hear many arguing it's not something a lot would use so why spend the time coding it? A reasonable response but I would think simply delaying the display wouldn't be a huge coding issue but then I'm not a coder and could very well be wrong.

Marc Vaughan 11-27-2007 11:08 PM

Sweed is there a reason why you don't want to play 'split screen' with the match report in one panel and the pitch in the other - this would give you pretty much what you want already (and if you play in high resolution on your monitor then the pitch and report will both have ample room).

Sweed 11-28-2007 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 1602006)
Sweed is there a reason why you don't want to play 'split screen' with the match report in one panel and the pitch in the other - this would give you pretty much what you want already (and if you play in high resolution on your monitor then the pitch and report will both have ample room).


Marc, thanks for the reply. I just prefer watching the matches on the large pitch. Like a lot of Americans I thought "world" football was a boring game and only bought my first WWSM in 2006 due to all the praise I heard on these boards about the depth\immersion of FM. What I found by watching the 2d view is that football is a great game and have become a fan of the beautiful game. But like watching any games in my home I will always choose to watch on the 47" tv in the livingroom over the 28" widescreen in the basement family room, bigger is better:) So, if things never change I'll continue to watch on the "big screen" and be fine with that.

It's certainly not a huge issue but it is something I've thought about since playing the last two versions of EHM. When the topic came up at SI I thought it would be a good opportunity to throw out my idea to see what others thought, be it for or against. Also to maybe hear why this is something that could\ would\ should\ shouldn't be done. Not worth the coding time? Too hard to do? Easy to do in very minimal time? Never been suggested or something the SI staff never thought about? Maybe I'm the only guy in the world that would use the feature;) :) ?

scooter 11-28-2007 11:21 AM

What about just watching the match in 2d at a slower setting? Wouldn't that allow you to watch both the match and the commentary at a speed you could read? I'm not sure because I always just watch the extended highlights. I'd love to have the time to watch the entire game, but that's just not going to happen.

Sweed 11-28-2007 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter (Post 1602313)
What about just watching the match in 2d at a slower setting? Wouldn't that allow you to watch both the match and the commentary at a speed you could read? I'm not sure because I always just watch the extended highlights. I'd love to have the time to watch the entire game, but that's just not going to happen.


Appreciate the suggestion but running at a slower speed would put me in the boat of not wanting to watch the full 90 minutes. Right now it takes approx. 45 minutes for me to watch a full match, a little longer if I have to make many tactic changes. This is acceptable to me as it's only a little longer than a full game of OOTP. Even if I went slower I'd still get action and text simultaneously which makes it hurried to see both. Just a fraction of a second delay would result in the text staying long enough to easily be able to read the text after the action occurs.

Like I said before certainly not a huge deal and doesn't ruin the game for me.
Just thought that putting in a delay on when the text is put on the screen would be a fairly simple thing. A few lines of code with a variable with 0 being immediate\default, like now, and the user being able to change the variable to .xxx to delay the text to his liking. Of course I don't code so I don't know if it is an easy thing to do or not. IMHO if it is easy to do then I would like to see it. If it involves a lot of work and development time than I don't think it is needed.

Izulde 11-28-2007 05:15 PM

I'm having a lot of fun since the patch.

I've got Thurrock in 9th place and loaned in two guys, one a striker who's been hot and has played a lot better than his ratings would indicate. I tried to sign him but he said no. Sadly he's only here on a 3 month loan.

My other 3 month loan was one of those guys who plays quietly well.... but he just ripped up his knee and is gone 2-3 months, so I had to terminate his loan to allow him to heal up back at the club.

Trying to get a new MC loaned in till the end of the season. Had a team accept the deal.. just have to see if the player accepts.

I actually made won an FA Cup game too and have the next qualifying round up next. :)

Qrusher14242 11-28-2007 11:00 PM

anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.

gi 11-29-2007 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242 (Post 1602955)
anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.


I've seen this happen a lot too...I just thought it was my players, now...not so much. Maybe a setting?

Cringer 11-29-2007 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242 (Post 1602955)
anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.



Horse steroids stuffed in his rectum. You should see my team run! :D

Really I have no idea, haven't seen it but haven't played it since my laptop died last week.

DaddyTorgo 11-29-2007 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242 (Post 1602955)
anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.


is this lots of players, or just one? what does the decision-making of your players look like? if they have poor decision-making i suppose you'd want to use a quicker-tempo game so they get the ball and get rid of it (even poorly) rather than getting the ball and standing around stupified trying to figure out what to do with it...

Critch 11-29-2007 08:19 AM

I've not seen this problem either, but I did read that if you set a player to little creative freedom he'll spend so much time thinking "right, what did the coach say I was meant to do in this situation?" that he'll be caught in possession more.

If you've got players of limited talent, over-complicated tactics and too many instructions can confuse them too. If your team is lower division it may be worth trying to simplify.

Izulde 11-29-2007 01:27 PM

I was up until 4 am playing last night.

Still in 9th and have a game in hand thanks to making a couple brilliant loans that came in the day before going up against a good Conference Premier side... leading us to upset them and make it through to the 1st round of the FA Cup!!! :)

Marc Vaughan 11-29-2007 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242 (Post 1602955)
anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.


If you describe your tactics more fully then I'm sure someone will be able to assist you.

If you're playing in the lower reaches then try and keep tactics simple for best success - don't confuse players basically.

(also please do realise that at that level if someone plays a 40 yard ball to a player then presuming he does manage to control it (which is only a 'possibility) it will most likely take a couple of seconds for him to get it under control rather than bouncing around his feet ... )

Qrusher14242 11-29-2007 07:13 PM

the last time it happened was with Esteban Cambiasso of Inter. I was just playing 4-4-2 and Creative Freedom was at the default setting. The GK just kicked it to him and then he got the to halfway line with no one in sight, but just kept moving a little bit at a time until someone closed him down and then they took the ball and ran with it and scored. Never ever saw that happen in 2007. Maybe if he was under pressure when he recieved the ball, but they guy wasnt.

I dunno what changed in the match engine this year, but players dont move fluid at all anymore and they dally on the ball too much. If you go back and play 2007, its much more fluid movement, at least in the 2d view.

Passacaglia 11-30-2007 12:41 AM

Stupid question -- what's the difference between simple and complicated tactics?

Critch 11-30-2007 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242 (Post 1603687)
I dunno what changed in the match engine this year, but players dont move fluid at all anymore and they dally on the ball too much. If you go back and play 2007, its much more fluid movement, at least in the 2d view.


I really haven't noticed much of a difference, if anything I'd say this years looks better than last. Have you applied the patch? Pre-patch there was a closing down problem, but that was mainly the opposite of what you're complaining about.

Only continual problem I've had is that setting a player to get a near post flick at a corner seems to automatically have him head the ball out for a goal kick.

path12 11-30-2007 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia (Post 1603950)
Stupid question -- what's the difference between simple and complicated tactics?


Complicated tactics mean you have players making lots of runs, extra creative freedom, short passing, etc; as opposed to a base 442.

I think. ;)

Blade6119 11-30-2007 08:41 PM

Complicated also means harder to operate, though potentially more rewarding, and requires the right set of players to operate.

Its the difference between a base I-form football offense and the triple option. Most any team can run the I, but it takes a lot of things to run the trip. Though if done right, it can be deadly...

Blade6119 11-30-2007 08:43 PM

I tend to stick to a 4-1-2-1-2 or a 5-3-2 with two wingbacks running the flanks and sending in crosses. Ive tinkered with a 4-4-2 Diamond with a skilled winger i have, and a 4-1-1-3-1, but cant seem to find a winning combo with those 2. I used to always use fast strikers and counter-attacks, but ive begun to appreciate the target striker as ive integrated crosses into my attack more.

DaddyTorgo 11-30-2007 08:46 PM

OMFG...i need to upload this highlights file. I just had a midfielder make an 80 or so yard run and burn past the Inter defense to score.


http://www.mediafire.com/?3nyr0msbtmn

Big Fo 11-30-2007 11:45 PM

Being able to select what kind of feeder team you would prefer is a nice feature, I just came across that for the first time.

ice4277 12-01-2007 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critch (Post 1604313)
I really haven't noticed much of a difference, if anything I'd say this years looks better than last. Have you applied the patch? Pre-patch there was a closing down problem, but that was mainly the opposite of what you're complaining about.

Only continual problem I've had is that setting a player to get a near post flick at a corner seems to automatically have him head the ball out for a goal kick.


I've noticed that occasionally (usually two midfielders) are involved in a challenge, their dots and the ball stop moving for a second or two, almost as if the engine is 'resolving' the tackle (I know its not, but thats what it looks like). I don't think it really affects gameplay at all, it just looks kind of funny. Other than that, the corner issue is the only problem I have. I think overall the engine looks pretty good this year.

Critch 12-01-2007 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ice4277 (Post 1604804)
I've noticed that occasionally (usually two midfielders) are involved in a challenge, their dots and the ball stop moving for a second or two, almost as if the engine is 'resolving' the tackle (I know its not, but thats what it looks like).


I kinda took that as being two players getting tangled in a challenge, one of them on the ground with the ball between their legs or something. It does look a bit strange though.

Shepp 12-01-2007 12:21 PM

It looks like the match engine is still in need of some work. There are still a bunch of complaints over on the SI board that defenders still aren't working quite right either.

I haven't seen it personally but I'm also concerned about the issue reported over there were substitutions are not working right.

Guess I can only keep my fingers crossed for the end of January update.

Sweed 12-01-2007 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepp (Post 1604935)
It looks like the match engine is still in need of some work. There are still a bunch of complaints over on the SI board that defenders still aren't working quite right either.

I haven't seen it personally but I'm also concerned about the issue reported over there were substitutions are not working right.

Guess I can only keep my fingers crossed for the end of January update.


You're not playing the game because of something you haven't seen personally?

Maybe it's because I'm from the US and, not growing up watching football, don't know what to look for but I can't say I've seen anything that ruins the experience for me.

I have read many threads at SI arguing back and forth whether there are problems or whether it comes down to bad tactics. Either way these guys know way more about football than I do and they can't seem to agree. I do know there are a lot of complaints at SI. I also know there are also a lot of people (europeans etc. that know football better than I do) that are enjoying the game. And I know I don't have the expertise to tell either side they are wrong so, I'll happily play my game with my "American blinders" on as I am finding it quite enjoyable.

YMMV.

Shepp 12-01-2007 03:07 PM

I didn't say I wasn't playing the game. I just wanted to be clear that even though I haven't seen this, yet, I'm still concerned about its impact. As pissed off as I get when I lose close games. I would like to at least be assured that its because of poor tactics on my part and not something F'd up in the engine.

I know that quite a few of the complaints on the SI board should be taken with a grain of salt but they're not all without merit.

lighthousekeeper 12-01-2007 06:47 PM

I'm beginning to realize how bad I am at this game. Now in my 4th season in the Conference North, I not only have failed to get promoted, but am now starting to head in the opposite direction - just barely finishing in the top half of the table in year 3.

Now many of my previous key players have deteriorated (which they always seem to do once on my squad regardless of age) and I haven't done enough work to attract more key players. Add to this that my team has consistently bled money since day 1 (currently $250K in the red), avg. attendance has dropped from ~1000 (seas. 1) to ~300 (seas. 3), and things aren't looking too rosey round these parts.

Fortunately, my board's expectations have only been "don't get relegated", so I'm pretty safe with regards to getting sacked....I think.

Flasch186 12-01-2007 06:53 PM

i have also found a deterioration of the players on my team in BSN but I have to assume it's because this is a part time squad and I cannot get them trained up.

lighthousekeeper 12-01-2007 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 1599613)
*cough*

your 2010 World Cup Champions...IVORY COAST

2-1 winners over England via a Yaya Toure strike in the 70th minute


In my game, Ivory Coast came in 3rd in the 2010 WC. England lost in the finals to SPain.

DaddyTorgo 12-01-2007 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper (Post 1605379)
In my game, Ivory Coast came in 3rd in the 2010 WC. England lost in the finals to SPain.


surprisingly, after taking ivory coast to be the WC winner and #1 team in the world, I couldn't get brazil or argentina interested in hiring me yet.

Critch 12-02-2007 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 1605397)
surprisingly, after taking ivory coast to be the WC winner and #1 team in the world, I couldn't get brazil or argentina interested in hiring me yet.


Neither Brazil nor Argentina have ever had a foreigner manage their football team (I think), so I guess in the game you'll be unlikely to be hired as their manager if you don't have the right nationality?

Flasch186 12-02-2007 08:39 AM

we suck so bad, ugh.

Passacaglia 12-02-2007 09:43 AM

I just got my career started, after getting sick of waiting for Genie Scout or whatever it is. Doing all right -- managing Queen's University Belfast in Northern Ireland Second Divison (it goes Premier, First, Second). I like it becuase league play is not such a marathon (22 games), and there's four different cup competitions to compete in, and considering how small Northern Ireland is, to be in the third level down is probably the lowest you can get. So far, I've won 4, drawn 1, lost none. I guess I don't need the Genie after all!

DaddyTorgo 12-02-2007 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critch (Post 1605576)
Neither Brazil nor Argentina have ever had a foreigner manage their football team (I think), so I guess in the game you'll be unlikely to be hired as their manager if you don't have the right nationality?


true. I wonder if that's modeled in the game though. I know i've managed brazil before, and I don't think that I had brazilian as a 2nd nationality...*shrug* I basically just wanted to do it to improve my pipeline into South American anyways ;)

Marc Vaughan 12-02-2007 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 1605643)
true. I wonder if that's modeled in the game though. I know i've managed brazil before, and I don't think that I had brazilian as a 2nd nationality...*shrug* I basically just wanted to do it to improve my pipeline into South American anyways ;)


Its modelled in the game (oh yea of little faith ;) ) - but not as a 'you won't get the job' at all sort of thing.

Basically if a nation has a large reputation and is successful (goes hand in hand really ;) ) then they'll be more likely to want to have a manager of their own nationality (which is what normally is the case in real-life) - however if they have less than stellar success (ie. England) or are of a smaller reputation (ie. Australia) then there is lesser or no bias against a foreign manager coming in.

So in summary yes you can still get the job - but it'll be somewhat less likely if you have no national tie to a big reputation national side.

DaddyTorgo 12-02-2007 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 1605660)
Its modelled in the game (oh yea of little faith ;) ) - but not as a 'you won't get the job' at all sort of thing.

Basically if a nation has a large reputation and is successful (goes hand in hand really ;) ) then they'll be more likely to want to have a manager of their own nationality (which is what normally is the case in real-life) - however if they have less than stellar success (ie. England) or are of a smaller reputation (ie. Australia) then there is lesser or no bias against a foreign manager coming in.

So in summary yes you can still get the job - but it'll be somewhat less likely if you have no national tie to a big reputation national side.


probably explains why it usually takes around 10 years for me to get to that point.

oh I have faith Marc.

So, given that...IRL we should be seeing a rash of Sunday-footballers applying to be manager of the English national side, hmm? :D:D

Sweed 12-02-2007 03:27 PM

I really do enjoy this game. 2006 was my first version, skipped 2k7 and bought 2k8. Maybe I'm stupid for missing it but I just found something else cool that makes the game easier to play:)

Always hated setting up my set pieces. Wasn't real good at it to start with and always found myself looking down the assignment column and trying to make sure I had three guys back, only one on each post, one challenging the keeper, etc. Needless to say I'd find myself in match and see I had four back and realize I had miscounted when setting up:mad:

This afternoon I'm playing the game and checking my set pieces when it hit me I can sort the assignment column, well duh. With it sorted I can easily see that I have three back etc. and what's more the sort sticks :whoo who: So if I have two guys assigned to forward and move another to forward the column resorts and shows me the three guys assigned forward together.

Just an incredibly deep game with all the little touches added to make it great. Good job SI.

Izulde 12-02-2007 03:46 PM

Bouncing between 10th and 12th place in Conference N/S, still. Lost in the FA Cup 1st round to a League 2 side, but we played them hard.

Just won the FA Trophy 3rd round qualifying, so we're through to 4th round Qualifying.

Overall we're still doing pretty well, though I dread to see what's going to happen at the end of the year, once all my loan players go back to their original clubs.

Izulde 12-02-2007 03:48 PM

dola,

Is there a way you can set your reputation to Obscure when starting as a manager?

Every time I start, no matter what club I take, no matter if I set it to Sunday side for match experience, I always come up Unproven, which is the 3rd from bottom prestige level.

I'd really like to be able to start as Obscure, the very bottom.

wbatl1 12-02-2007 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde (Post 1605821)
dola,

Is there a way you can set your reputation to Obscure when starting as a manager?

Every time I start, no matter what club I take, no matter if I set it to Sunday side for match experience, I always come up Unproven, which is the 3rd from bottom prestige level.

I'd really like to be able to start as Obscure, the very bottom.


I think I've heard in the past that it is this way so that you will actually get offered a job if you are unemployed. It is essentially telling the AI directors of boards (at lower teams, though) that you have some reason to be hired.

Marc will probably correct me, but thats what I understood.

Marc Vaughan 12-03-2007 07:27 AM

Unproven just means that you're a total unknown to the world of football and as such many people are holding off judging you for a while (ie. its not so much a reputation as a lack of a bad one).

Obscure on the other hand means pretty much that you're 'known' as a manager by people in the world of football but dismissed as a fairly obscure manager who is unlikely to ever make a huge impact (which is why its rated below Unproven).

If you do badly enough initially then your Unproven will change to Obscure if you really want it ;)

Toddzilla 12-03-2007 08:38 AM

If you *really* want to be an "obscure" manager, take over a team in the English League One or Two, go on holiday for a few years and set the options up so that you can sell players but not purchase them. That way you'll eventually lose all your good players, get stuck with regens, lose most of your games, and get relegated 3 or 4 times. Then you'll be obscure as all get out.

Passacaglia 12-03-2007 08:50 AM

But if you're obscure, won't that mean you have no chance to get hired?

Flasch186 12-03-2007 08:52 AM

the tactics pages frustrate me to no end in that it'll rearrange the players to its own liking. I'll move them, save it, and low and behold it's moved them around. No for the last time when we play altrincham I want Fuller at DR, so I set it, save it, go into the game and 20 minutes in I notice he's back at Mid. So pissed at that, among other things with this team but this has been a gripe of mine ever since I started playing FM. The save system sucks ass when it comes to tactics.

Mizzou B-ball fan 12-03-2007 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia (Post 1606353)
But if you're obscure, won't that mean you have no chance to get hired?


I had that happen to me in the 2006 version of the game. I coached so badly that no one wanted me. I offered to pay a team to hire me, but no dice.

Marc Vaughan 12-03-2007 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 1606356)
the tactics pages frustrate me to no end in that it'll rearrange the players to its own liking. I'll move them, save it, and low and behold it's moved them around. No for the last time when we play altrincham I want Fuller at DR, so I set it, save it, go into the game and 20 minutes in I notice he's back at Mid. So pissed at that, among other things with this team but this has been a gripe of mine ever since I started playing FM. The save system sucks ass when it comes to tactics.


I'm guessing you're editing tactics DURING a match and then finding they reset outside of it?

This is intentional - quite often during a match managers might wildly swing tactics towards the end, either very defensive or very attacking so in game tactics changes are kept 'in game' and discarded at the end of it.

If you save a tactic in a match then once you exit that match reload it you'll get the tactic you 'saved'.

I know it probably feels 'strange' if you're not used to it - but generally people once they understand it get on ok with it and see why we've done it like that.

Hope this helps,

Marc

TroyF 12-03-2007 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 1606376)
I'm guessing you're editing tactics DURING a match and then finding they reset outside of it?

This is intentional - quite often during a match managers might wildly swing tactics towards the end, either very defensive or very attacking so in game tactics changes are kept 'in game' and discarded at the end of it.

If you save a tactic in a match then once you exit that match reload it you'll get the tactic you 'saved'.

I know it probably feels 'strange' if you're not used to it - but generally people once they understand it get on ok with it and see why we've done it like that.

Hope this helps,

Marc


I was confused the first time I played as well. Then I started to actually make adjustments during a game and realized how valuable it was to do it this way. It'd drive me up the wall if my "get everyone behind the ball, time waste, counter attack" strategy had to be reset before every match.

The best thing to do with tactics is to spend about an hour before the start of every season. Create 4 to 5 lineups and the tactics you want for each. Then create situational tactics (down a goal late, down 2 goals at halftime, up a goal late, etc.) Then you can load any of them up at anytime and only have to make minor changes instead of spending a ton of time in game to figure out what to do.

Izulde 12-03-2007 10:09 AM

Thanks for the explanations on Unproven vs Obscure, et. al. :)

I've got Thurrock up to 1st place in Conference South! We're 8 points ahead of promotion playoffs, but only in 1st by 2 points.

Our biggest game of the season is coming up next... against that 2nd place team.

The board is screaming about the wage budget because I signed a few players to full-time contracts and my financial control is down to 9 because we're $22,000 over budget (that's per year, btw.. I hate per week)

But who cares? We'll sort it out later. The important thing is we're in 1st place!

If we do promote, though, I'm scared to see what's going to happen. About half my best players are all loans.

Pumpy Tudors 12-03-2007 10:27 AM

OK, you guys just about have me ready to pull the trigger on buying this game. I'm remembering my teams from the past few editions of the game, and I'm itching to get started on the current edition.

...at least I hope that's what that itch is...

Mizzou B-ball fan 12-03-2007 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde (Post 1606403)
If we do promote, though, I'm scared to see what's going to happen. About half my best players are all loans.


Yes, but you're also going to be able to get better players on loans next year because of the higher league. Also, you're likely to get more money for transfers and salaries.

lighthousekeeper 12-03-2007 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1606414)
Yes, but you're also going to be able to get better players on loans next year because of the higher league. Also, you're likely to get more money for transfers and salaries.


...and you're also going to get financially walloped at the end of the season while paying out the end-of-year bonuses.

bulletsponge 12-03-2007 01:06 PM

i just survived my first season in the EPL. avoided relegation by only a few points. if it wasnt for Everton going into administration and being docked 9 pts i would have been relegated. but since i survived players are taking me more seriously and im getting more $$, so i can finally bring in some better players

Izulde 12-03-2007 05:19 PM

The good news: We've secured absolute minimum playoff spots and are still in 1st place.

The bad news: Our form is hitting the crapper as we've lost our rhythm thanks to injuries to all 3 of my top strikers at the same frigging time. That seriously pissed me off.

While two of the three are now back in business, we've lost the chemistry and have had two very critical losses. Couple this with an 8 game win streak by Dorchester and we're now just a single point ahead.

I'm thinking we're going to have to get hot again and win out if we want to get the automatic promotion.

Bea-Arthurs Hip 12-03-2007 06:30 PM

Here is my MLS/USL promotion relagation league swap..

Not as "big" as Toddzillas but it has lots of wife yelling and kids screaming time into it.

If you dont download the DB at least check out the word document to get a flavor for what I have done.


http://hosted.filefront.com/meter99/

Pumpy Tudors 12-03-2007 07:16 PM

I think I want to play the game on my dual core laptop. How does the game run in Vista? Any known issues?

SackAttack 12-03-2007 07:34 PM

I'm noticing that the players that have been stars for me in the last few versions are showing up already on Premiership sides this time.

That's making it harder to bring back sentimental favorites.

Flasch186 12-03-2007 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 1606376)
I'm guessing you're editing tactics DURING a match and then finding they reset outside of it?

This is intentional - quite often during a match managers might wildly swing tactics towards the end, either very defensive or very attacking so in game tactics changes are kept 'in game' and discarded at the end of it.

If you save a tactic in a match then once you exit that match reload it you'll get the tactic you 'saved'.

I know it probably feels 'strange' if you're not used to it - but generally people once they understand it get on ok with it and see why we've done it like that.

Hope this helps,



Marc



I dont know what to tell you except that Im on pause right now so that I can describe this to you. I started the game, a new team (i got fired again) and setup the team before the game and clicked save. I started the game and all was fine, about the 60 minute mark I sub a player in, all seems fine. 10 minutes later, go to make another sub and my striker is at ML. No reason why and it's frustrating to know end in that it is happening often.

DaddyTorgo 12-03-2007 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack (Post 1606797)
I'm noticing that the players that have been stars for me in the last few versions are showing up already on Premiership sides this time.

That's making it harder to bring back sentimental favorites.


yes. And when you do and you pay $48.5 million for them, you get accused of the "worst signing of the season" in the next offseason :mad:

DaddyTorgo 12-03-2007 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 1606806)
I dont know what to tell you except that Im on pause right now so that I can describe this to you. I started the game, a new team (i got fired again) and setup the team before the game and clicked save. I started the game and all was fine, about the 60 minute mark I sub a player in, all seems fine. 10 minutes later, go to make another sub and my striker is at ML. No reason why and it's frustrating to know end in that it is happening often.


not to be an ass, but are you sure you're subbing them out for the right person? :confused:

Flasch186 12-03-2007 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 1606808)
not to be an ass, but are you sure you're subbing them out for the right person? :confused:


YES, AAMOF, It just happened again for the second time in the same game!!!! Damnit!



I cannot get Rogers to stay as my FC no matter what, it keeps moving him back during the game WTF! Truly, this system of knowing when stuff works and doesnt has frustrated me through the last iteration of WWSM and this one too. Who is switching them? the asst.?

He's shown as the ML, I didnt know it'd be so small.

DaddyTorgo 12-03-2007 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 1606810)
YES, AAMOF, It just happened again for the second time in the same game!!!! Damnit!


okay that's weird then.

:confused::confused:

Flasch186 12-03-2007 09:29 PM

yeah, and every game its some different random change. this game the MR, is a MC and the Mc is the MR....so I swap them back when I catch it 20 minutes in. But I know it fucks up everything regarding continuity etc. It is a HUGE mistake in the game as it is a different swap every game....I'm on the border of saying its a bug.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH but after I swapped them I just went back in 10 minutes later and that MC--->MR move sent the player to the FC position and the FC to the MR. I didnt even touch the FC at all!!!!!! Im so f'n pissed.

So many lost opportunities for this team during these ERRORS in the GAME.....

Marc Vaughan 12-03-2007 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 1606884)
yeah, and every game its some different random change. this game the MR, is a MC and the Mc is the MR....so I swap them back when I catch it 20 minutes in. But I know it fucks up everything regarding continuity etc. It is a HUGE mistake in the game as it is a different swap every game....I'm on the border of saying its a bug.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH but after I swapped them I just went back in 10 minutes later and that MC--->MR move sent the player to the FC position and the FC to the MR. I didnt even touch the FC at all!!!!!! Im so f'n pissed.


It could well be a bug - but it seems strange that I havent heard of it before now if thats the case (people normally aren't 'shy' of jumping up and down shouting at us if there are visible problems ;) ).

Is there anything you can think of which you might be doing which might be 'unusual' in your playing style? - for instance do you use the assistant manager to select your team?, do you change tactics by loading in a new tactic?, any preference with regards to using the gui for selecting your team (ie. do you do it via. the tactics page instead of the main page?).

(basically if we can work out whats happening then obviously we'll hopefully be able to avoid this problem for you in the future and if required can code things to prevent it in future - but it must be fairly obscure or more people would be shouting I'd expect)

klayman 12-03-2007 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 1606810)

I cannot get Rogers to stay as my FC no matter what, it keeps moving him back during the game WTF! Truly, this system of knowing when stuff works and doesnt has frustrated me through the last iteration of WWSM and this one too. Who is switching them? the asst.?


Do you have swap positions on in any of the player instructions?

Flasch186 12-03-2007 09:35 PM

.....

okay so I go into half and that MR is at the OTHER MC position, the MC is at MR.

Why? I dont know. Ill swap them.....ill let you know.

Flasch186 12-03-2007 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klayman (Post 1606890)
Do you have swap positions on in any of the player instructions?


yes, the 2 MC's and the 2 FC's with eachother though.....Am I misunderstanding what that means?




EDIT-----------------> Those swaps above were ALL jacked up although I havnt touched them in, forever....You probably hit the nail on the head!! If this fixes it Ill owe Marc a pint.




Marc, the asst. coach is only ticked for friendlies and nothing else. How'd you know I was jumping in my living room :)

Izulde 12-04-2007 10:44 AM

So we beat the team behind us, only to lose and tie, allowing Dorchester to sneak ahead by 1 point.

I'm swearing and cursing because there's only 3 games left in the season.

We edge out 20th placed Maidenhead 1-0 and I'm sweating it out. Maidenhead played us tough both games, as they tied us 1-1 in the first game, but still. Dorchester won again.

Two games left.

Basingstoke is favored to beat us thanks to home advantage, but my hero loan strikers James Walker and Chris Dickson go absolutely bananas as we tear Basingstoke apart 5-2 after taking a 2-1 halftime lead.

Dorchester gets upset!

We're ahead by 2 points!

It all comes down to the last game. Dorchester gets a tough draw in 3rd place Bishop's Stortford. We get a home game against Eastborne Boro. If we tie or win, we win Conference South. If we lose, we need Dorchester to lose or tie to win.

We get the report before the game that Dorchester beat Bishop's Stortford 3-2.

I tell the players before the game to win this one for the fans.

We go up 3-1 at halftime. I tell them how pleased I am and they go out and expand the lead and we win 4-1!!!!!!!!!

I loved how at the end of the game it said on the bottom "Thurrock wins Blue Conference South! The players are ecstatic in their celebration!" or something to that effect.

This feels really, really awesome! :)

Of course, we're in the red now and all our loan players are going back....

I may do a mini-dynasty where I post a year by year account of Thurrock at each seasons' end.

Mizzou B-ball fan 12-04-2007 11:01 AM

Is there any way in WWSM08 to export some end of season information that people could use to post in a dynasty or something like that?

FrogMan 12-04-2007 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1607408)
Is there any way in WWSM08 to export some end of season information that people could use to post in a dynasty or something like that?



can't you save to html anymore? I used to do that all the time. That HTML is easy to copy/paste with the WYSIWYG editor on vbulletin...

FM

MikeVick7 12-04-2007 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors (Post 1606413)
OK, you guys just about have me ready to pull the trigger on buying this game. I'm remembering my teams from the past few editions of the game, and I'm itching to get started on the current edition.

...at least I hope that's what that itch is...

Hammer time!!...Hammer time!!...Hammer time!!

See someone remembers your players. :)

Pumpy Tudors 12-04-2007 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVick7 (Post 1607529)
Hammer time!!...Hammer time!!...Hammer time!!

See someone remembers your players. :)

Fabulous!

Toddzilla 12-04-2007 03:57 PM

ARGH!

Got a new computer today, tried to re-install my DD of WWSM08, but it errors out - "Cannot connect to the database"

I emailed Boonty support, and it says to expect to wait 48 hours.

So I'm down for 2 days at the least.

Boooooooooo

Toddzilla 12-05-2007 03:28 PM

Fuck Boonty support.

I keep getting the same clown responding to my emails, and he's got his head stuck in the sand, not acknowledging what the problem is.

Seems I cannot "generate an email" when I try to manually unlock the game. The application just quits. So, without this super-special generated email, I cannot get my activation code.

They have my name, address, email, proof of purchase, and order ID, so just GIVE ME THE GODDAMNED CODE.

Pumpy Tudors 12-05-2007 03:51 PM

Toddzilla, that sounds terrible, and has pretty much clinched that I won't be getting the digital download. I'll just order it from Amazon eventually. :(

Toddzilla 12-05-2007 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors (Post 1608479)
Toddzilla, that sounds terrible, and has pretty much clinched that I won't be getting the digital download. I'll just order it from Amazon eventually. :(

Don't get WWSM - make sure to get FM to avoid the support issues that have plagued WWSM owners forever.

Marc Vaughan 12-05-2007 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla (Post 1608463)
Fuck Boonty support.

I keep getting the same clown responding to my emails, and he's got his head stuck in the sand, not acknowledging what the problem is.

Seems I cannot "generate an email" when I try to manually unlock the game. The application just quits. So, without this super-special generated email, I cannot get my activation code.

They have my name, address, email, proof of purchase, and order ID, so just GIVE ME THE GODDAMNED CODE.


Please PM me passing along your email address, 'real name' and the details of the person you have been having problems with - I can pass that along to Marc Duffy who will hopefully be able to sort things out for you (and kick the person in question all things being equal).

wbatl1 12-05-2007 06:03 PM

You know, the more I read Marc and his support (both technical and strategical) on here, the more and more in awe I am of this board. We have it good (but that may be a consequence of our general ability to be more sane than the folks over at the SI board).

Anyway, Marc, thank you very much for your support here, and keep up the good work. This is why I will keep sending you my money!

Cringer 12-05-2007 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla (Post 1608463)
Fuck Boonty support.

I keep getting the same clown responding to my emails, and he's got his head stuck in the sand, not acknowledging what the problem is.

Seems I cannot "generate an email" when I try to manually unlock the game. The application just quits. So, without this super-special generated email, I cannot get my activation code.

They have my name, address, email, proof of purchase, and order ID, so just GIVE ME THE GODDAMNED CODE.


My laptop died a few weeks back and I got a new one a couple weeks ago. I was worried something like this might happen but thankfully didn't. Sorry for your problem.

lighthousekeeper 12-05-2007 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbatl1 (Post 1608546)
You know, the more I read Marc and his support (both technical and strategical) on here, the more and more in awe I am of this board. We have it good (but that may be a consequence of our general ability to be more sane than the folks over at the SI board).

Anyway, Marc, thank you very much for your support here, and keep up the good work. This is why I will keep sending you my money!


+1

SackAttack 12-05-2007 10:00 PM

I tell you what, it seems like the Premiership money is crazy compared to the last couple versions. Is that an exchange rate change, or did the money really go way up?

lighthousekeeper 12-05-2007 11:28 PM

motherfucker. down 10 guys to 11 due to a 6th minute red card, i somehow manage to come back against 1st place Boston United from a 2-1 deficit to take 3-2 lead at the 70th minute. i put my Time Wasting setting to MAXIMUM, they score in the 88th minute, then in the 90th minute i witness this: they kick corner that goes behind the net, so my keeper is set to make goal kick. does he wait even 1 second before making the kick?!?! no, he immediately kicks the ball to the opposition, who promptly obtain superhuman speed and go 2-on-1 to score the winning goal. motherfucker.


btw, IRL is there a time limit for how long a keeper can hold on to the ball?

astrosfan64 12-06-2007 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper (Post 1608718)
motherfucker. down 10 guys to 11 due to a 6th minute red card, i somehow manage to come back against 1st place Boston United from a 2-1 deficit to take 3-2 lead at the 70th minute. i put my Time Wasting setting to MAXIMUM, they score in the 88th minute, then in the 90th minute i witness this: they kick corner that goes behind the net, so my keeper is set to make goal kick. does he wait even 1 second before making the kick?!?! no, he immediately kicks the ball to the opposition, who promptly obtain superhuman speed and go 2-on-1 to score the winning goal. motherfucker.


btw, IRL is there a time limit for how long a keeper can hold on to the ball?


Yes, you can actually get a card for stalling. The ref will basically tell you to hurry it up, if you take to long late in the game you get hit with a card.

The other thing to point out. Refs are a bit strange. If you have 4 minutes of injury time a ref might let it go 4 minutes plus, if there is an attacking run going on. It is pretty crazy how that works.

Mizzou B-ball fan 12-06-2007 07:45 AM

Just finished up my first season. My board offered me the option to increase my expectations (they wanted to avoid relagation) to increase my available salary. Given that I finished 2nd in my league last year (no promotion as only the top team was promoted), I upped my expectations to 'top half finish'. As a result, my salary doubled from 41K/week to 84K/week. Sweet feature!


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