If you look at what LSG said, her story matches what I know at least.. 3 shillings a night. I personally just think she didn't look close enough at what DT said and if she re-checks she gains those 3 regardless if she goes out or not. I don't really see her alligning herself with DT right now and wouldn't hold it against her if DT is bad.

You saw people at the den? I didn't see anyone. Well, except for the group of women dancing around me singing "Deck the Halls". But I suspect that was the opium talkin'.

A little soda water should take that right out. Or is that wine stains? I can never remember.

I just re-read her post, you are correct.

Gotta do some stuff around here, so I shall return later.

I think if there was some bad activity in your district last night I would be more pressing on who was there. Since it appears most of the activity that happened there was not involved with the night kills, I dont mind leaving it to those people if they want to state they were there or not. Its probably good information for you to collect for later however in case its needed.

I for one know you didn't see me as I went no where near there last night :)

or maybe you're just upset i burned you last game? why wouldn't someone have a "visit opium den" or "visit prostitute" role even if they were good but not an ordinary villager? nowhere does it say that those are restricted to "ordinary villagers" alan. you're reading into things that shouldn't be read into.

I don't think Mr.W was visiting the opium den. I think he was in the area when Fouts was killed outside of the Opium den. The people who came when he shouted for help (Blade, St.cronin, ntndeacon) I am guessing were not partaking in the opium den either.

I'm not really sure how you "burned" me last game as any of the others on my team could verify I was thinking you were probably bad from day 2 on and pushed for you to be our scan target on night 1. :) However thats neither here nor there, its pretty silly to argue my points in this game with things from last game that are irrelevant.

Like I said, I have no idea if you have the ability to visit prostitutes or whatever, but you sure didn't seem to know much about it yesterday. You had a headache, fair enough so today you still have a different role than the rest of us with your story. No matter how you cut it, you don't have the same normal villager role that others have.

Whether that makes you bad or good I don't know and will leave it up to others to make their own judgements, but I just know you aren't the same role as me.

I wouldn't care to guess whether Blade, st.cronin, or ntndeacon were customers, staff, or otherwise at the den, or merely passing nearby. I just know that they came when I called for help.

Blade, what is your gut on people that actually have the same role as you? I'm probably not going to be able to really dig into this question until I get home tonight and I may have deadline challenges going through a few hundred posts in that shortened timetable.

fair enough. that was a cheap-shot and irrelevant. i do have the ability to visit prostitutes or the opium den if i choose. It does seem likely that I don't have the same normal villager role of course. But in a game like this I don't find that that surprising, that I have an advantage here and a disadvantage somewhere else. I earn an extra shilling if I stay in at night to earn money, but if I go out at night I assume additional risk. i don't see why that tweaks you so much. There's a lot of strange roles going on in London here.

I see your point about how the fact that i'm not a "normal" villager makes me more suspicious. But if we lynch everyone who isn't a "normal" villager then we lose all of our special abilities.

Daddy, can I safely assume that your special ability is not simply gaining an extra shilling when you stay in?

right. but it's also not guarenteed. i'm not a powerful role, i think i'm more of just a "add a little flavor" kinda role, since I wasn't mentioned as a specific like "powerful type" in the roles+rules. i would reveal more, except it might put me at risk and a clever person might pick up the hints I've dropped (including the big one) and put them together anyways. I'm not sure if my survival matters as far as game mechanics go, but I don't want to die, for purely selfish reasons.

for now
Vote Mr Wednesday

I can vouch for Barkeep, as well. I saw him and bulletsponge in my opium-induced dream.

wow, i feel so much better now that a junkie saw me in a dope induced vision.

Can you vouch for bullet then, also?

I miss a lot of hints, but I caught yours

you are clear in my book

i'm leaning towards Mr. Weds. but I don't want to post "just a vote" so i'll summarize my thoughts later and make my vote official.

Can somebody give a justification for voting for me besides the fact that I happened to be in the Bishopsgate area for reasons I'd rather not go into?

Dola, and please note, NOBODY WAS KILLED THERE!!!

You crack me up sometimes.

I have a bit of a problem.

I'm not sure if I should continue in this game. I am having a bit of financial trouble, and recieved a call from Comcast that because I'm 60 days past due, my internet service will be disconnected as soon as today, or as late as 1 week. It really sucks because I wanted to be in this game, and might be able continue for up to a weekm but at the same time, I'm wondering if it might just be better to have Chief Rum find a new player right away.

I'll PM him, and see what he says. :(

I came in response to a cry out, and i can say that i saw cronin and ntndeacon come as well. I dont know who called though, but i can confirm the three of us all seeminly responded to the same cry out.

So in this regard i can confirm your story as correct, though i cannot confirm it was you who cried out. I did see the other two in the crowd though.

I knew from my initial PM i would have competition with the urchins, so i expected a few similar roles, but how many people claim it astounds me.

I tend to trust Alan since he has been right with almost all of his comments in regards to minor details. LSG and DT worried me, though DT has tried to explain it, in saying they werent sure if they made money if they went out at night and DT claiming 4 gold. These 2 facts deviate from my role, as it was made relatively clear(in my mind) i got my income regardless of what i did.

Since then, i have seen saldana claim the role, swaggs and DC hint at it, and quite frankly i find it likely that its the later players that are bluffing. Bad guys, in a game like this with so much info(and evil) have to be very careful about what they say. Minor details could get them lynched, so they tend to speak in common terms and make agreements to things already posted by others.

Im not sure who is evil, but i really only trust alan in that group right now.

Blade, what are your feelings on Path in that common role?
- he identified himself as a Londoner on his sign-on post #87
- he did not dispute Fouts' claim on the 5 shilling fee for a prostitute (he and BrianD commented on this at the time)
- he has struck me as a player who is pretty frustrated with the number of vanilla villagers

Also, going from memory Dubb was the first person to come forward with the info on opium.

I know I do not have this role - are the urchin/opium/prostitute all functions for the common villager role or am I blending two different roles in my interpretation of actions available to the (unwashed) masses?

In DC's favor, she spotted me passing through Bishopsgate, where no murders occurred last night. That's not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a point in favor. There are several other people whose movements last night are completely unknown.

Its all one role, you just have finite resources to decide which you want to spend money on. There is no way to be able to fund all of it. Also as people probably realize we are in competition with one another for the services of the orphans.

I think Dubbs is fine in my book, he came out and explained in detail to St.Cronin what I was hinting at last night. I also think path is ok as he hinted to the orphan role before I expanded on it with more hints before Blade's reveal. Path also had other interaction with Fouts yesterday that I liked. I also found Raiders Army ok yesterday but it was rather minorly feeling ok and he hasnt done much that I have caught since to help solidify that or wreck it.

Today I found comments both LSG and Dodgerchick as seemingly ok and believable and don't have huge issues with them.

Right now I'm feeling ok with the group of

Blade
Path
LSG
Dodgerchick
myself
Dubbs

with slightly ok about Raiders.

You know my reasons why I pushed on DaddyTorgo and he has admitted as much as not being ordinary since. Whether that makes him good or bad, heck if I know. I also have weird vibes from Saldana who either entirely missed huge hints about the same role he claims to have or is up to something.

The only big concern i have is the possibility of conversion in this group or the possibility that some bad guys might start off with a similar type role to prevent "PM Sharing" from happening.

I know you asked Blade, but I figured I would provide my 2 cents too.

Someone is trying hard to clear themselves lol

I was actually going to suggest we ask someone like saldana or DT to tell us this as a way to clear them, but that idea is now useless.

I do believe there could be conversions, but i dont think its happened yet

Alan trusts him, i dont yet...or brian...its comments like theirs where they agreed with dubb that throw up red flags to me, as they didnt really add anything to the conversation.

Path was the first to bring up the possibilty of a day action though, so he is higher then brian

Blade, Brian is dead

My guess is there is at least 4 bad guys... no prostitutes were killed. I am reading into his role that he can't kill other folks. It may be a bad assumption , but it makes sence to me.

VOTE DADDY TORGO

Mr. W wasnt lying about his story in whitechapel, so ill trust him over DT whos role seems to conflict with mine in a few areas

It is all available to the Londoner role.

Have you never seen a zombie flick? Those bastards are even more dangerous dead then alive!!

Ok, i admit i screwed up...i guess i should trust brian now that he is dead, though ive got my chainsaw ready in case he tries anything

OK, so I'm going to start pulling some people off my "potential vote" list for today - doesn't mean they are innocent, but it is tough to construct scenarios around 18 people.

DT - role not pinned down, although SnDvls seems to trust him

Schmidty - "head hurts" was initial reaction to receivign role, I initially believed that implied a special role but less sure with complexity of "common" role

Saldana - making a push for common role, suggested he was outbid for urchin by Blade

Lathum - very little feel, although he made a comment about Hoops/Barkeep dispute yesterday that was pretty off-base

Cronin - topic of discussion Day 1, hard to fathom what kind of role he had based on his early comments in game but likely not the "common" role

LSG - very little feel

MrW - another person who is unlikely to have "common" role. Want to look harder at him in near future in terms of his location for last night - both his claims and assertions of others

SnDvls - very little feel

Dodgerchick - making a play for "common" role?

Raiders - very little feel

Swaggs - co-leader in clubhouse right now with Lathum for my suspicions

NTN - do people think he is trying to adopt "common" role?

Id be willing to vote for swaggs, raiders, DC, Lathum, or schmidty right now...not counting DT and sndvls since i didnt realize sn was trying to clear DT

This is where I'm at right now. (well, not necessarily the conversion aspect but the rest of it) I think it is a real possibility that at least some of the bad guys have the same abilities as the Londoners. I don't doubt that there's been some piling on in the claims for villagers, but it just seems to me that if just the Londoners have those abilities that it might be a little too easy to form trust circles.

Well, tonight will be telling...if we continue to have 3 kills a night i can see us having all of these powers

of those on yours and hoops list I'd be willing to go
Raiders, Lathum or Schmidty

dola - not really clearing him, just that I'm pretty sure I have his role pegged from his hints.

double dola - I have no confirmation on DT being good or bad, just I feel from his hints he is good and what his role is being good...hope that clears it up some

Okay, so why me?

I wasn't at the opium den. I only came over there with the shouts. (Just confirming what you are suspecting Alan. :) ) Prior to that I was in Cavell Street.

I can confirm seeing NTN at Cavell Street.

However, that seems a little weird to me - were you visiting Cavell Street? I recognize that answering this may end up tying you to your home district, but if you were visiting then I can not draw conclusive information on any of the four people on my list. Or I need to start drawing other conclusions from it ...

So I have:

DaddyTorgo (4)- AlanT, Barkeep49, Blade6119, Dubb93
Mr. W (4)- Bulletsponge, Dodgerchick, LoneStarGirl, SnDvls

20 of us left so we need 7 votes to lynch right?

Lynching DC would be a mistake.

eine meenie minie mo.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

Lathum, any good reason i shouldnt vote for you?

Hoops, I'm not really sure why you suspect me, I said I skimmed through the thread yesterday and was exausted after the 10 hour drive from PA to Ohio then worked all day yesterday. I worked all day today as well, that is why I am under the radar this game.

There is someone who I believe can confirm my whereabouts last night but I would rather not say who. I think to many potential roles are getting outed which usually equates into helping the bad guys.

For now I am going to trust DC, she usually plays straightforward. Plus Mr. Wed suggested we all say what section we live in at the start of the game then backed off really quick.

VOTE MR WEDNESDAY

I was visiting Cavell Street.

any good reason you should?

Your one of the few people who arent claiming to be a normal villager...that prob. makes you special on some manner, for better or worse i dont know.

OK, can one of the other players who responded to Tyrith's murder (Blade?) indicate if you were visiting another district before checking out the murder scene? If I get a 2nd confirmation on this I'll release the names of all four people I saw in Cavell last night.

Lathum, any insight you would care to provide about your night activities last night?

I was in another district as well before i heared the cry out

Not really, I know there is a certain lady of the night that peddels her wares in my district but in the spirt of protecting her I would rather keep quiet.

Well I am about to be gone til after Lynch. (dress rehearsal for an opera.) So I will go ahead and throw out my vote. I think that Mr. Wed Story makes more sense to me. So I will go with the other.
Vote Daddy Torgo

OK, the people I saw in Cavell last night were:

NTN
Cronin
Blade
Lathum

My PM indicates that they soon leave. Reviewing it in light of the news that both NTN and Blade started in other districts does seem to validate the idea that this was not their point of origin (trying hard not to directly quote here).

Now, time to go double-check this list against MrW's list from earlier about who responded. I believe it was three of the four people above ...

So the question we must now ask is why did NTN, Cronin, and myself all hear and react to the cry out from mr. w, but lathum did not...thats a pretty interesting question knowing all 3 of us who ended up in the crowd in white-chapel all came from cavell

I saw four people leave Cavell. Three of those people answered MrW's call. Lathum is the other person.

As you will note, I don't distrust her, but I don't understand her (or others) reasoning for voting me.

I backed off because I thought a little about what you said and decided there was some merit to it.

Okay guys, sorry I am dumb. Alant, I HATE when you are right. I don't have to stay in to get my 3 shillings. But I did anyway. Daddy seems suspicious to me, but I dont think my suspicions are solid enough to vote for him. However, as you all know I am very PRO lynch, so if we need one more vote I will bounce off Wednesday and jump on Daddy. I just think we need to be looking in different directions.

Blade? are you Hoops' follower now? You give no reason to vote for lathum, you just do it. Lathum has been playing a little under the radar for him, but nothing has jumped out at me about him.

And hoops, you are a hell of a player my friend, but something with you isnt jiving with me. But i am not going to push it just yet.... Maybe you will come clean sooner than later

Well, I'm a little torn here. Some people in my CoT are voting for DaddyTorgo; I don't really see a case against him so it doesn't seem right to vote for him.

Although I was told that Mr. W was seen passing through Bishopsgate, I wasn't told he committed any crime; he may have, I don't know, but I did notice that one person whom I don't trust is voting for Mr. W as well.

I have to head out for a dinner appointment with a vendor. I don't honestly know when I'll be back. It might very well be after the lynch unfortunatly. I'll keep my vote where it seems to count the most right now on DT. With the conversation hoops and blade are having it seems to be interesting and I would consider Lathum, but I dont want to move my vote if there isn't a great reason to yet.

I'll try to get back but not sure I can. Good luck all.

I was searching for a prostitute when I realized I had been pick pocketed, I went off to look for the person who stole my money since obtaining a ladies services were out of the question.

I find it odd that I wasn't at the scene of the murder yet I am being suspected?

LSG, I think I'm being pretty forthcoming with the information I learn - when it does not jeopardize other players - although less so about my role.

I tried to protect Barkeep earlier today because I had very good reasons to believe he was a prostitute. Absolutely no reason for me to do that as a bad guy.

I tried to protect the information about the four people I saw last night in Cavell because I was worried about indicating where they lived - I felt like that was their information to reveal, not mine. But once I learned that at least two of them were coming from another location first I provided that information.

LoneStarGirl - let me know what actions I've taken that concern you and I'll try to address them.

Did you read? There were 4 of us hoops confirms that were in cavell. A cry came out from white-chapel from mr. w for help after finding a dead body...NTN, Cronin, and I all left cavell and went to the death scene(in a crowd, which mr. w never mentioned). Lathum, for some reason, did not come at the sound of the cry for help. Thats a pretty big reason

Hoops, i went to white-chapel from cavell at the sound of the cries. I think you have my movements a little reversed there.

Is that a hunch or actual knowledge?

so hoops or blade, explain to me how I could be guilty if I was in a district where there were no murders?

As usual Blade's first suspect doesn't catch so he latch's onto another one...

If I understand correctly, the murder had already happened when the cry was made. You wouldn't really be expected to be there after the fact if you did in fact make the kill.

More of a hunch right now. I might be digging too deep path, so i am going to ignore it for a couple more days :)

NTN, Cronin, and myself were all in cavell just like you...yet we easily wound up in white-chapel. Note, we went at the first murder. There were 2 other murders, oh which you were very capable of moving just like we did to go complete.

As usual, you defend yourself by trying to slander me

This is the type of game that needs a spreadsheet. I am getting a tad mixed up on who did what where

Under the circumstances, not being spotted at the scene makes you a member of the suspect list. I didn't recognize the killer, and the circumstances of the people that I did see leads me to believe that they weren't him.

I'm not trying to slander you, I'm mearly saying it's a stretch to assume I was in whitechapel, ran to cavell, then to commercial then back to cavell, it makes no sense. If I was guilty the obvious move would be try and blend in with the pack, instead I went to find my money so I could get some tail...

Two things, im not saying you were in white-chapel and commerical..if your a killer, only one would be needed. Second, you go to find your money at night?

I should elaborate on my comment in #680, that list is not a short one, I'm just pointing out that the idea that not being seen somehow makes you less of a suspect is a faulty one. So far, only one or two avowed customers of the opium den have been placed in the Whitechapel Rd area aside from myself and the folks who came to help after Fouts was slain.

Now I'm confused... when were you placed in Commercial?

Cool. I was just curious because I hadn't gotten any vibes from hoops thus far.

There were others present, but none that I recognized. The way that it was described, I wouldn't have said that "crowd" was the feel that I got, but I'm sure that's just a matter of details.

I wasn't. I was stressing the point that I was in a district where there was no murder and It would be a stretch to assume I would be running from district to district and be able to kill anyone.

I think everyone can agree people have gone from one district to another, and Mr. W claims to have been in 3 last night. Why is it so much of a stretch to think you left cavell for white chapel or commerical, killed someone, and returned home. Im sure you not implying people can go visit hookers in other districts, do their thing, and then return home, but you couldnt do a similar action path. If you are claiming that, thats just blatantly wrong

As soon as I realized it was stolen from me. Without quoting my PM I briskly walked into an alley to persue the thief, perhaps hoops can confirm this is somewhat accurate, If I didn't run to white chappel where did I go?

Thats the million dollar question, now isnt it?

dola- I have to go out to dinner with someone from out of town and will be gone past the deadline. People can vote how they want but it is a pretty flimsy reason that I have explained the best I can. IMO the killer would have rushed to the scene of the crime to try and blend in with the others.

Just a theory then I have to go, Mr. Wed, maybe none of the people who showed up when you called were people you would assume commited the crime because one of them already turned back into Dr. Jeckyl?

So, BrianD was robbed. Lathum says he was robbed. Didn't DC or someone also say they were robbed?

Do we just assume that the urchin night move is to steal? Can Fagin send them all out? Three kills and three robberies seems like overkill.

All in all, I'm having problems with Lathum's story. He first says that a prostitute can vouch for him, but then says that he was robbed on the way there and then went to look for the person who stole the money. Now I haven't been robbed, so I can't say what Chief's mechanic is there, but I know that I don't have any actions that would involve being able to try and track my money down if I was robbed.

I'm still gonna wait to vote because I want to go back and check a couple more things when I get some time, but I'm strongly leaning that direction right now.

path, I knew hoops could vouch I was in that district since it was him (her?) I was going to see.

Alan claimed to be robbed i believe..and brian being robbed was just to let us know fagin killed him i believe, not a seperate mugging then kill

You were going to hoops because he is a prostitue your saying?

I can't rule that possibility out. My sense is that it's not the case, but given the sequence of events it's not impossible.

ok, now i am leaving. I don't believe there is a mechanic for getting my money back, I believe that was in my PM to account for my where abouts last night, like I said, I assume hoops can confirm where I went.

i don't understand what i've done that seems suspicious, so i guess I'll just try to stop doing whatever it is. there is really a lot going on with all the different districts AND the tons of players. It's a lot of information to try to process for someone still relatively new, that's all.

At this point, although the suspiscion of Lathum has raised my eyebrows and made me think we might have something there, in the spirit of self-preservation I have to

VOTE MR. WEDNESDAY

although this will of course change if I should be out of the woods, likely to Lathum from what I recall so far. I'll be here on-and-off till lynch

I am again going to challenge anybody aside from DT that's voting for me to provide a justification for the vote.

Hoops is the guy who started the voting for you and presented reasons why you might be bad...to expect him to now defend you is rather odd.