Just reading the about how you guys are figuring out how to set up a league makes my head spin.

Can I get university credit for playing this game?

Hmm...there's an idea for a class. ;)

I am.

So.

Fucking.

Tired.

Of changing the pinch hitter's position from PH to, say, SS, having SS go --, and then when I drag a new pitcher onto the mound, instead of inserting him in the lineup spot with the -- for position, the pitcher goes into the 9th spot, where I JUST PUT THE DAMN DEFENSIVE REPLACEMENT.

For the love of God, is it that hard for the computer to intuit, "hey, there's a defensive change with a player taking the place of an existing fielder, but in a different lineup spot, maybe we should put the new pitcher THERE"?

Augh.

OOTP is taking forever to load the results of my search, so I'm going to note the two things I just saw here.

1) When the umpire calls for an infield fly, doesn't matter WHERE the ball lands: on the second baseman's head, in the baserunner's crack, or just plain ol' on the infield dirt: batter-runner is OUT, and it's a dead ball. It's not a single. Or anything else, for that matter.

I mean, from an emotional perspective, it gave my #3 hitter a 4-4 day instead of a 3-4 day, and led to a pair of two-out runs (instead of the inning being over), but, uh - them ain't the rules.

2) I saw this in a previous version of OOTP, but the game seems to be tracking team LOB as the cumulative total of LOB for each individual batter, which also is incorrect.

Well, no, it's not a TRUE dead ball, as the runners can still advance at their own peril, but the infield fly causes a dead ball in the sense that if they don't bother to move off of their bases, there's no play, because they're not at peril to be put out on the play.

/clarification.

I didn't want to comment on this but it's driving me crazy. I don't know if you're serious about this which to me would make me pity you or if you're just posturing t osupport your position which frankly isn't needed. You could just say you don't want anyone else to enjoy options that you don't use. I mean, wargames have "what if" scenarios don't they? Or, do you mean that you expect that a game that games should include real world functionality or they wouldn't be your cup of tea which giving you the benefit of the doubt is what I'd like to believe you mean? if it's the last though, your point misses the point.

Do you really have a problem with paying the base price for items if you don't utilize every feature of the item?

I don't smoke but I don't try and haggle with the dealership to remove the cigarette lighter. If I was deaf I wouldn't pay for a 6-disc CD changer but I wouldn't bitch if it was included and I didn't pay extra for it.

I could do without the silver wrapper on individual sticks of gum, I don't use every feature of Microsoft Word, I don't use the left back pocket of my jeans, I don't use every feature of my VCR, I don't always want tomatoes on my hamburger, the list goes on. I wouldn't pay extra for any of these things but I've never felt opposed to them being included in the basic package ( except the tomatoes which I simply ask them to remove. I don't ask for a discount ).

Your position seems weird enough to ask for clarification.

I agree with your statement... but i think you didn't underestand what he wrote. What i underestand from his post is that he complains about why are added features that don't work properly, or you add them and they work as they should, or you don't add and don't advertise them, as some guys could buy the game based on that features that end not working properly. It's like if FOF advertises a 2D view for the next game, you buy it because that and then the 2D view is not working, you basicaly pay for something you won't enjoy.

Anyway it's just what i read from his post, but of course i'm not him. I also trust SI and Markus and i guess that those features (waivers, AI roster management and international leagues), will end working properly in OOTP after a couple of patches so i'm not really worried. Of course i'm a bit dissapointed that they don't work since day one as i really wanted to enjoy this game, but i'll play FM in the mean time. Sadly we are too used to games not being fully playable since the release day.

That's why I asked for clarification from him. I was getting what you read into it but the CD thing threw me off. Clearly he doesn't say the CD changer doesn't work but that since he's deaf he doesn't want it. That's the clarification I wanted.

Like I told him, if he meant what I thought he meant and what you read from it too, he stated it badly but if he truly meant he has a problem with paying the base price for features he won't use, then that's weird.

Weirdly enough, I bought the game now because I trust SI to make things work correctly. I read enough in this thread to realize I'd be able to lose myself in the things they do right like the stats and the player cards that I'd be having fun looking at this stuff at least until the patch comes out since I don't really have a lot of playing time right now. :)

Sometimes, to me, learning a game is more fun than playing a game. I knew this pre computer. My friends and I would often buy games that we only played a couple of times but had so much fun learning that they never seemed a ripoff. I guess maybe we contributed to the whole getting used to games not being fully playable on release day trend. I don't know. But to me, the fun is in the learning something new and the anticipation that it'll be more fun than it usually turns out to be. *shurg*

Different strokes for different folks but to me, the cost/reward ratio works for a whole lot of games. The elite that pass this mark are the ones I remember forever but if I based my enjoyment of the hobby on this criteria I'd be a bitter, bitter man by now.

Dola. I went out last night and had a meal and two excellent margaritas. My bill was more than the cost of this game. It was wonderful but the experience is over now. I'm very sure the honeymoon period for this game will last longer so it's money well spent.

That's my view of my hobby.

There's definitely a lot of bugs and issues with the game, but I have to say I'm having 10 times more fun with this game than any baseball game I've played. I love the fact that I can set things up with so many various options. I don't want to replay the MLB 20 times in a row. I like being able to create my own fictional universe where things aren't exactly like they are in the MLB with just the names changed to protect the innocent. If you're looking for an exact duplication of the MLB then the game probably falls short right now...of course, I have yet to see a game that met all the expectations some people have.

I think I understand what you are saying: if you're drunk, the game is good!

:cool:

If you're drunk, it's all good. :D

OK, did I overlook another setting or is this the "1901" bug I've read about? I started a new league in 1901 and sent it to sim overnight. I come back this morning and start glancing around and I see that 1901 was played with 2006 era settings -- bunch of home runs and offense galore. All of the top offensive seasons were in 1901 with guys hitting 55 homers then everything goes to normally in 1902. After I set the eras, I searched for a button that would recalibrate the settings but didn't find it. It does recalibrate for subsequent seasons but not for the first season.

Is there a recalibration option I missed or does this go on the fix list?

Another neat thing -- I noticed a guy was leading the league in a couple of categories during my simming but didn't have a team, so I stopped the league to check him out. I was initially afraid that somebody had cut the league's leading hitter and nobody snatched him. Nope, on August 19 he ruptured a disc in his back and the next day Baltimore cut him. He officially announced his retirement September 9.

I like the idea that players don't automatically retire after an injury, even if it is career-ending. That said, I'm firmly in the camp that has always hated the career-ending injury in OOTP. There are almost no immediate career-ending injuries in baseball. Almost everybody tries to come back. I prefer the FOF career-ending injury where the guy is out for 52+ weeks and may try to come back or not. That's much more realistic to me.

At least this guy thought about trying to come back for a couple of weeks. :)

And this is at the crux of something that bothers me with some games, and with all due respect I think OOTP has been more guilty of this in the past than some others.

This game has been promoted as being a "brand new" engine and rebuilt from the ground up. I infer that means that the game design began with a blank sheet of paper and no new code. Yet there are a handful of bugs of bugs in this game that have been in previous versions of OOTP in their exact same format. So the development team made the same mistakes when redesigning the engine completely? That seems too coincidental.

It doesn't bother me that they reuse code, but I just dislike what I perceive as disingenuousness of giving the impression that code is not reused. However, I think that SI is a big-time positive influence on Markus and the OOTP group -- I get the impression thus far that they think more along the lines of the fanbase on what is a bug and should be remedy and what is a design choice.

I don't think I'm ready to flipflop like Cooleyvol did over at the OOTP forums quite yet, but I will say this -- it gets better. The game gets less intimidating the more you use it. There are still things I think are a bit counter-intuitive, but my impression at this point is that this is a substantial upgrade over previous versions and worth the time time it takes to figure everything out.

The only thing that continues to disappoint me are the logistics of historic play. It was always frustrating to create a realistic historic replace spanning eras -- particularly the expansion era. But now the difficult level has been increased by a magnitude of 100 in this version.

First, playing with historic teams essentially means playing without minors unless you have your PhD in OOTP BM Customization. Minor leagues don't create automatically with an import league. If you choose to play with minor leagues, you need to do it all yourself. Expansion is still manual too. You have to add the teams yourself and there is no expansion draft. Expansion teams also get added in the preseason after players are already imported, which means that even if you are importing players on to their original teams in year one of a new franchise you have to add all those players by hand. If you're playing with minors on, you'll have to create minor league teams during expansion too.

If you're like Bucc and you only play in an era where league size is constant, it's not a big deal at all. What I can't figure out is this -- Baseball Mogul is a game that in almost all respects is inferior to OOTP and this version of OOTP in particular. But Baseball Mogul got historic expansion right and made it so freakin' easy. Why can't OOTP figure that out? It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to automate historic expansion -- if Clay can do it, why can't Markus?

Good question.

Clay didn't have to factor in the effects of expansion on the Outer Cumquat league on Ultima Thule.

After reading posts over at the ootp forums, this is the reason I'm still thinking I might end up getting this game. It appears to me SI is really envolved with making sure the game gets patched and promptly. The only question is, "Can Markus do it?".

Must be an American League AI.

(This really got to me some years ago when Josh Lewin - who is by all accounts a pretty decent announcer now - was doing a non-DH game and just could not understand what had happened after a double switch. He went on and on about how the pinch hitter stayed in the game and was now in the field. He couldn't figure out how that could be possible. Now, he was primarily an AL guy as he was doing O's games at the time...but it was still pretty pathetic.)

I'll echo what I've said before (possibly at the FOBL forum and not here) - I think it is entirely possible that Markus didn't reuse actual lines of code for this. But, I also think it's possible that having knowledge of how the game was programmed before, he quite likely built the new code with the same logic as he had used before. Basically, coding the same functions twice. While some of the syntax might be a little different, the functionality is basically the same. So while bugs in the code might not be there, flaws in the logic could very well remain.

I also don't have an issue with using code from FM (as some seem to) - that just seems to be streamlined programming to me. That's the point of modular programming anyway.

I'll also echo the sentiment that the more you get used to it, the more you warm to the game. Scouting is pretty involved, but if I'm willing to take a career slow - day by day - it's not that bad. Some days that's all you're doing, really. I could see myself doing this in a career, considering I used to sim out 162 games for various teams in MicroLeague (each taking about an hour). Just something I have to get used to again. Also, I'm having a much better time at navigating around. It's not exactly second nature yet, but definitely getting better. There are still oddities with how the AI picks up players (I found a STUD 1B in FA in a small league and signed him for peanuts, only to get a trade proposal for him the following week), but I'm getting more into my first startup career.

Now...the main reason I picked up the game was in anticipation of the FOBL moving from v5 to 2006. This I'm not completely sold on, though I figure we'll be doing it eventually. Most of the additions to the game to me seem to be things that will be interesting for single player careers. For leagues, I'm not so sure. We already run w/o scouts, w/o coaches, w/o waivers, and have finances and contracts outside of the game. We'll be turning all of this off again I'm fairly certain. We're also not likely to change the league structure...so the international aspect of the game won't come into play.

So what does that leave? Beefed up HTML, for one. Problem there is, we're doing pretty well just with Cato and BOSI, and will probably be taking a step BACK until newer equivalents of these tools pop up (the game history still seems watered down compared to Cato to me). Another thing is more management of the minors. I really do like the idea of this, following actual games for minor leaguers is a great addition. Unfortunately, it requires teams to actually have full minors. Problem is...the FOBL has FAR from a full minors (see http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/team34m.html , http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/team20m.html for instance). Definitely issues there.

I think the big hope for some is that screwy AI decisions would be fixed. Things like RP abuse, for instance. I guess we have to wait a bit for that. At least maybe there won't be as many double steals in odd situations and line-outs to the catcher...

But in all reasonable thought to say that Clay can add expansion to BM so Markus should be able to as well is like saying a Yugo and a Ferrari are on the same footing as far as cars go. They are somewhat the same 4 wheels, doors, seats, etc........BUT there are also unfathomable differences in the two which make comparison laughable. I'm not saying it isn't possible I'm just saying you can't compare adding it to one as being the same as adding it to the other.

kc, I know we've discussed this before but I have found team movement/expansion in v5 to be fun to do. Sure it's manual but I like that it is not automated. As you know, I play in the 50s where there are 5 teams moving - that's easy. Then I hit the early 60s and you have the AL expanding 10 teams and then on eor two years later, the NL does the same thing. However in one career, I delayed the AL expansion until 1962 so I could do both at the same time. Takes about 5 minutes to do, including putting in the updated logos and stadiums.

With a game that has so many options, it doesn't make any sense to not give the gamer the option on historical movement/expansion. I would agree that an option could be given to automate this part but I would not ever play that way.

See, I don't want it to be automatic. I want the ability to tell the game I want to expand, for me to pick where the teams are going and what the names are going to be, and then hold an expansion draft. I know that it seems hard for Markus to code as it's been asked for by many for years. But it would be great if we could do it that way then the manual way, which takes longer sometimes than most people will want to spend adding teams and then players to that team.

Question for the guys who own the game and are playing the hell out of it...

In the UBL (our pseudo-FOFC OOTP league), I run a separate Euro league from which we import certain FA's that meet a specific criteria. Is it possible to import our 2 leagues into the same universe, but only have players flow one way (from EBF to UBL)? Would it just be better to turn foreign FA's up and jack up the amount? We get about 5-10 FA's each season that are eligible...is it possible to reproduce this?

Thanks!

All this baseball talk has me interested in firing up OOTP6 while I wait for the 2006 demo. Does anyone know if there are any rosters available for this season?

How can you have confidence in Markus, if the same Ai bugs from previous versions are in the new engine of ootp 2006?

Do you honestly think after the game gets patch it will be fix finally?

These Ai bugs for waivers, trades, and releases has been going on for a long time. And I don't see those getting fix. I hope I am wrong.

Now these new bugs in ootp 2006 that we never seen in previous versions, I have confidence Markus will fix those in the incoming patches.

I just not understanding how the same old bugs are still in the new engine of ootp 2006.

I have confidence in SI, but your right can Markus do it.

I going to wait and see.

People get confused, I can see that.

Vin Scully went off one time about how a scoreboard in Arizona was broken because it was tracking balls, strikes, and pitch counts.

He was looking at the strike and pitch count part of it, and for the life of him he couldn't figure out why the scoreboard was showing a 2-15 count.

Yes, here if you have access to the ootp forums:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=114738

In fact, the whole league setup is about the best I've used since playing ootp. I'm in 2008 now and have had an absolute blast starting off with these.

If it can be fixed to be on par with 6.5 AND have all the new things 2006 has, I'll be happy. I don't think the MR issue is in the new version, at least I haven't read anything about it yet and goofy waivers.. although irks me, I can deal with.

My confidence is in SI. I fully expect SI to demand the core features of the game work. (ie: pitchers not playing the field, stat bugs, etc.)

Can Markus fix the waivers and some of the other issues? I don't think he can. I think some things are so far gone, they cannot be fixed. And my line of thinking is like JIMG, I think to fix some of this stuff it may take a new game designer.

It may be nasty to say, but we've been dealing with these same issues for four versions now. Get the damned things fixed already.

Still, I'm enjoying my time with OOTP. Frustrated? yes. Baffled on occasion? yes.

But it's been an enjoyable experience. I just pray to the Gods he gets the core issues fixed. I'll be more than happy to turn off waivers, other leagues and anything else if the core game works.

A quick update: These are the things already fixed according to the Marc Duffy at the OOTP board: (I've bolded the things I find incredibly important)

General
Added the option to disable the news ticker to the game preferences
Added "Run computer manager on all teams" to the "Other Functions" menu of the league setup
Fixed problems with insufficient players on AI rosters (#1497)
Fixed crash problem when asking manager to set up depth charts (#1490)
Added ratings to the player lists used in the transaction screen and the trade screen
Fixed problems with nationalities and filters (#1493, #1496)
Fixed default Minor League city repeating (#1474)
Fixed buttons not adding correct amounts on the contract screen (#1476)
Fixed some inaugral draft head scout rating issues (#1478)
Fixed splitseason issue with playoffs (#1480)
Fixed unaffiliated minor league teams spending silly money on trades (#1482)
Fixed issue where subleague was duplicated on setup page (#1484)
Added more checks for a human controlled lineup before entering the game screen (#1617)
Fixed a problem with assigning SB stats on double-steals (#1615)
Improved rookie draft AI (#1614)
Fixed several cosmetic issues (#1611,
Fixed unwanted AI substitutions when simming to inning X (#1607)
Adjusted player photo loading, named photos have priority now and png's work now (#1605, #1430)
Fixed human manager age calculation when creating new game (#1580)
Fixed missing results from game log (#1572)
Fixed PbP problems on bunt plays (#1570)
Fixed crash problems when creating very small leagues (less than 5 teams)
Fixed in-game crash problems (#1561)
Improved retiring logic (#1549)
Improved trade AI when cash is involved (#1542)
Fixed the problem of pitchers playing other positions too often late in ballgames
Fixed CF importing from OOTP 6.5, some did not get an overall fielding rating (#1348)
Fixed illegal number of pitcher problem (#1405, #1421)
Fixed crash when opening empty game logs
Fixed filter coaches by league bug (#1424)
Fixed problem with crediting saves (#1425)
Improved batter development algorythm (#1454, #1456)
Improved AI minor league roster management (#1459, #1465)
Fixed game not ending properly when hitting "enter" after the game ended (#1463, #1464)
Fixed crashing on right-clicking on certain players (#1481)
Fixed crashing after importing certain OOTP 6.5 leagues together with standard leagues (#1483)
Fixed crash when sorting players by nickname (#1544)
Added notification on auto-fill lineups when the depth chart is not filled properly (#1551)
Fixed crashing on inning-ending injuries
Opening day starting pitchers selction improved (#1623)
Fixed players becoming coaches birthdate (#1626)
Spring stats now appear in team reports (#1410)
Fixed DFA loophole (#1498)

Skins

Fixed Pearl skin loading times

Schedules

Added information to the schedule evaluation report

Importing

Fixed problem with importing multiple OOTP 6 leagues into a signle OOTP 2006 game (#1495)

Play-by-Play and In-Game Text
Fixed issue with PbP showing a fielder named Davis when no player was named Davis
Fixed issue where text (nL) would show up in some PbP commentary(#1590)
Fixed issue where (%game fielder] was displayed(#1591)
Fixed issue where "OBP" was incorrectly written as "OPB"
Fixed issue where player is credited with a sacrifice bunt when the runner didn't advance (#1570)

He sure can, I've had him slumped at his computer all weekend!

Just as a side note : Markus today went through all the high priority bugs logged in the system from the technical support forum. Most were fixed as you can see on the changelist. Some we needed more info for and a couple were flagged for patch 2 which i stress should tackle some of the more complex issues being raised.

I'm confident that we can achieve much of what you guys want irrelevant if it's a problem you've experienced in the past or not

Marc, how about the wacky pitcher usage?

I really hope so. I'm looking forward to hearing in the upcoming weeks/months that all of the significant problems have been fixed and this game is reaching its potential. If so, I've got my credit card ready to order. :)

I think it is one of things that TroyF bolded in his post.


Edit: Nevermind, you weren't talking about pitchers playing the field. My bad.

Speaking of which, the Diamondbacks just had to use their closer for 4 innings, which initially set off alarm bells, until I noticed a larger problem - they were carrying only 9 pitchers, and had already used two of their three middle relievers (the other had been used the day before).

wrong wacky pitcher usage. I don't mean playing the field.

I mean closers pitching 6 innings, that sort of thing.

I haven't bought the new OOTP, but if SI can get Markus to fix these long-standing problems, I'm going to go over to Europe and tongue-kiss every single one of the guys there.

Pumpy, I thought you WANTED those problems fixed.

You're confusing me here, man!

I'm primed and ready for your visit!!

:D

Marc,

One little note about the exact wording of the bug listing here:

Fixed the problem of pitchers playing other positions too often late in ballgames


Too often should be virtually nil. It should happen maybe two or three times a year, if that. MLB pitchers make to much money and are to valuable in this day and age to have them play 3B or LF even for an inning at a time.

I remember it being done on occasion by Herzog and some other creative managers, but those were for some very specific purposes. (ie: with a lefty, rightie, lefty coming up, Herzog might call on his lefty reliever to get the first guy out, then move him to RF for the right handed hitter and then put him back on the mound for the next lefty)

If Markus is ingenious enough to create that scenario, that's terrific. Other than that, it simply shouldn't happen at all.

Oh, interesting.

My third baseman apparently has no position.



Maybe he needs to be a DH.

I love this scouting report.

"Boss,

Our coaches have reported that 19-year-old left fielder Teo Toble looks very uncomfortable at the plate these days."

followed by:

"His overall record up to this point in the season shows the following: 5 games played, .350 BA..."

If that's uncomfortable at the plate, feed the rest of my prospects what we're feeding Toble, please.

I got the pitching version as well. So and so looks uncomfortable on the mound.

Blah blah new ratings which are lower.

He's very confident this season, in 17 IP he's given up 15 hits and 2 ER and has an ERA of 1.whatever.... and he's 19 and in the FSL.

I guess it's safe to say that the minor league stats don't have anything to do with development or my scout's opinion of the player.

Maybe he did look very uncomfortable at the plate.

Maybe the pitcher looked even more uncomfortable when he was at the plate though. :)

I love this guy.

It looks as though I'm scheduled to play 25% of my road games in the month of April. We've played 10 straight already, and it looks like there's 12-13 more games left on the road trip before we get our first home game.

Has anybody else run into anything like that, either at home or on the road?

Is that Joe Mauer's line?

The New Orleans Saints last season in football. ;)

Nah, I'm not using real rosters.

That's my left fielder.

Meh, the football equivalent of what's happening to me is playing four straight on the road to open the season before you come home.

We're gonna be 1/4 of the way through our road record before we ever have the home opener.

Have you played the last two or three versions of Baseball Mogul? I might have agreed with the statement five years ago, but BM is a much better sim than it once was. I think saying OOTP is a Ferrari and BM is a Yugo is overrating one and underrating the other. I'd say OOTP is a fully loaded Honda Accord and BM is a base model Honda Civic. The Accord has a lot of what you want, but the Civic is a sturdy workhorse.

[QUOTE-cuervo] I'll echo what I've said before (possibly at the FOBL forum and not here) - I think it is entirely possible that Markus didn't reuse actual lines of code for this. But, I also think it's possible that having knowledge of how the game was programmed before, he quite likely built the new code with the same logic as he had used before. Basically, coding the same functions twice. While some of the syntax might be a little different, the functionality is basically the same. So while bugs in the code might not be there, flaws in the logic could very well remain.[/quote]
I do consider that a likely possibility. I ask myself that if you know something doesn't work as intended because your customers have told you so and you are building the code, why wouldn't you try something different? I think you would -- and if you do try something different, I would expect that the likelihood is you would get a different result, not necessarily the exact same result you received with a different course of action.

It was, however, rude of me to make the suggestion that the code isn't completely rewritten. The logic cuervo lays out is perfectly reasonable.

Perfectly reasonable point. My question is why can't you do both? I think BM had that, didn't it -- the option to turn historical expansion on or off?

I suppose if you've do it a few times, expansion in OOTP5 becomes rote. I could never do it without having TigerFan's instruction sheet for how to do it, and it never took me only 5 minutes. But trust me -- expansion in OOTP 2k6 with minor leagues on won't take five minutes, and the margin for error will be more significant.

Does anyone else have the waiver wire disappear in the time between the amature draft pool being announced and the amature draft. For the month of May the waiver wire was gone, now that the draft is over, it's back.

Well, though I haven't played the newest version I have played last years and if only taking into account the sheer number of options available in the games I still feel that my example is probably more true to form. Functionality wise you maybe correct but due to the amount of possible configurations and the need to keep things adjusted correctly there are just too many more possiblities in OOTP to compare them in number to BM.

Threads like these are why Jim's games are the way they are. People complain about lack of flexibility and then when a developer tries for the promised land they mock it into submission.

Not saying I agree or disagree with it - just telling it like it is.

True, the Saints had it far worse. They never had a home opener or even a home game. :(

Fixed that for you.

Well yeah...but besides that. I don't know why he does what he does - he just doesn't know when to say when.

Whoa. I think you need to take a step back.

Amazingly, with all the problems this game has (and it has a crapload of them), we've taken it fairly easy on the game. We aren't unhappy Markus has tried to shoot for the moon.

Jim's games get the same degree of heat as this, sometimes a lot more for his "design decisions" What's the point of flexibility and a wide sweeping universe if it doesn't work? I mean, waivers is almost beyond repair. He hasn't got em to work with any game yet and it's not even close at this point.

So are we angry that he gave us the flexibility to have waivers or angry that they are there and aren't even close to working? I'll take the "disagree" option if you don't mind.

Found another bug, when you create a crappy league (I created France) and you try to limit the number of foreigners, the game assumes that American are not foreigners.

And since I limited the talent pool to crappy local players, after a season, the league is full of Americans (teams went on from 0 to 40 or so) which might be reallistic but was not the point.

Else I'm having a blast, but Markus has not exploited that much the CM/FM engine :

- On the scouting point of view, I'd like to see a real scouting report, not just numbers.

- More interaction with the players, not just during contract negociation, e.g the player not showing to a training, requesting playing time, a trade etc...

- Coach reports that say something else than he is doing bad/good

- Media interaction ?

In fact all the points that make FM the best SMG.
So far Markus clearly just made another version of OOTP, but the game is just a rookie with lots of potential, and I don't think it will improve with patches, we will have to wait for next version for all that.

Did you try creating it with 100% to see what happens?

First off, with all due respect to people such as you who are playing inetnational leagues those kind of issues ie.Americans being in a Spanish league should be lower priority for now since that is the least worries these guys got now.

I hope i am proven wrong but I agree with this statement "I don't think it will improve with patches, we will have to wait for next version for all that" Well, it will improve just not to a very enjoyable level I think with the type of MAJOR design issues/bugs this one has.

I'm pretty much with Troy on this one. I don't think this game is getting mocked into submission. If you compare this thread with the Maximum Football thread, I think you'd come away with the conclusion that OOTP is the greatest computer game since Pong. I also don't think the criticism of the game has been that heavy. I'd term the reaction favorable, but I think the reaction is delayed because the game is so large there is a lot to take in.

But I beg to differ on the comparison to Jim. I think Jim has always been very upfront about what his games will be. TCY proved that. Even before the game was released he said some people won't like it because it's not a recreation of college football -- it was a college football game that he wanted to play.

I think OOTP stakes a claim to customization, but the end product doesn't always deliver on that claim no matter how good the game might be. That's why I've taken some pains at times to say what I think OOTP is and what it isn't -- because I don't think Markus does a good job of that. I think 2k6 will be a very good game -- but I don't know if it will be the all things to all people that it's sometimes hyped to be. It is what it is, just like Jim's games are.

Even for me it is a minor issue, like most people I play either the MLB or a fictional league were this is not a factor, but still since that bug exists, it though it would be good to report it.

Ok my bad, I got the bug wrong, I've just tried with 100%, the problem comes from the fact that there are 3 limits :

- number of foreigners
- number of foreign pitchers
- number of foreign batters

And the thing is that the game does not care of the number of foreigners limit, if you say 5 and 5 pitchers and 5 batters (for me it implies that you can have a maximum of 5 five foreigners of any kind), the game understands he can have as much as 5 pitchers AND 5 batters. Most teams now have 7-8 foreigners.

Plus it is the number of foreigners per team, not organization.

Anyway like I said, that's not a big deal.

It is a great game warts and all. It will only get better.

I'm gonna go ahead and guess Goodloe never sees anything worth hitting against the lefties.

Plus that's a rather limited stat sample..

I know it is. I'm mostly giggling over the fact that he's got a huge OBP vs lefties and crap BA, with more moderate numbers both ways against righties.

Good Lord - you're stretching here, aren't you?

Can I post ANYTHING that amuses me without it being taken as a criticism of the game? I have issues with OOTP, but this ain't one of them.

That stat split just made me laugh and I had to share it with you guys.

Well, yes he just made another version of OOTP. FM got to the level it's at over the course of 13/14 years and so perhaps over time we can explore some of the finer aspects of FM and put them in OOTP.

I'm sure via the patches we'll improve the game!

I hope he fixes the AI evaluation of veterans with large contracts. I think that's one of the major causes of trade and waiver wire issues.

Agreed.

Sorry to bump, but this may have gotten lost...

What's all this talk about OOTP being a rookie? He's been playing in the pros for 8 years now. Time to DFA?

I'm sorry, but I have zero idea if this will work or not.

Considering it has been rewritten from scratch, let's say it is a college senior getting to the pros ;)

So you believe that it's truly "rewritten from scratch" in spite of the repeat of the same problems that have been around for so long?

As was pointed out earlier, it is possible to rewrite a program and have the same logical flaws in the way you constructed the program show up in the new version. It doesn't have to be the exact same lines of code to follow similar logic that may be flawed.

anybody know what I do now?

I created a league with the lahman db for 2005, added all the minors and took over the Jays. I hit spring training and the rookie league has no players(the teams only have scouts and managers etc...). game wont let me advance even when i go into game setup and try to fill each minor league with fictional players..

keeps telling me team X has no players

Then does that really qualify as "rewritten from scratch"?
I mean, if I duplicate large chunks of a media plan from something I did last year, I wouldn't say that the new one is entirely "from scratch".

Rewritten from scratch does not mean original and creative. I think all of us probably take things from one project and apply what we've learned to our next project. Sometimes those things are flawed and you get the same mistakes in multiple projects until you learn better. Hopefully Markus learns better soon. :D

Known bug, you can't play with lahman and minors by now. Take a look at ootp boards to see some alternatives until the bug is corrected.

Yes you can, just edit those games(delete them) and reschedule them later in the year.

Yes. It is possible to do something from scratch many times, and make the same errors each time.

Well, by this line of reasoning you can't ever possibly rewrite any sports sims because a huge chunk of the project is based on the rules of the sport. I mean, he includes pitchers and hitters this year and he did the same last year so obviously he duplicated a large portion of his game so he didn't rewrite it from scratch.

Oh puh-leeze.

My question was actually more about
a)whether anybody believed the claim that the code was written from scratch and
b) whether repeating the same errors time & again qualified as "from scratch", if the "new" part of the equation amounted to re-typing the same error-riddled code.

The answer to both questions appears to be yes, so although I disagree with the answers, my question has indeed been answered.

Thanks, headin' over to the ootp boards now.

The code can be written from scratch but the logic doesn't have to be. It seems that the errors are an error in logic not an error in code so your whole point makes no sense Jon.

I have to for once agree with JIMG on basically, what he is saying.

I guess Jon has never experienced object-oriented programming.

I have only read half this thread, but wanted to post what I found. This looks to be more poor AI decision making.

On 5/2, the Reds traded a 25 year old 3B name Joe Gomora to Tampa Bay. He was hitting .313/2/13 through 83 ABs, with an OPS of .817 with Cincy. Since then, In 181 ABs with Tampa Bay he has hit .287/13/29, with an OPS of .933.
His current batting ratings are 12/10/9/14/15, and his potentials are 12/11/9/18/16.

The guys he was traded for are a 22 year old 1B with no batting ratings above 10(current nor potential). Also included was a 36 year old SS whose currents are 9/10/12/11/11, and is a pretty decent fielder.

Both players Cincy received are playing at the R-level ball. The 36 year old SS was immediately sent to AAA when Cincy received him, without even getting a single at bat at the ML level. He had 122 ABs there where he hit .246/6/14. He then played one game in AA, and was sent to R-level as soon as the rookie league season began.

So basically they traded a fairly good/decent player for two players they had no need for. They then sent a 36 year old player to play in R-ball.

OK, I just simmed about two months of play so that I could get to my Rookie level team's Opening day. I played out the first game, pitch-by-pitch, scored 5 runs in the top of the 9th, to win 6-4, and when "leaving the game" it fucking crashed on me.

What was the contract of the 25 year old 3B?