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tarcone 09-25-2017 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3176601)
If only there was a way to find out. Like a very simple way. Like a way that would've taken maybe 10 seconds to search and result in thousands of articles.


If you can think of a way, I would most certainly invest. This seems like something that should have been done already. 😀

bronconick 09-25-2017 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfc22 (Post 3176602)
What is even more hilarious is the fact that NASCAR released a PR message shortly thereafter. I highly doubt they make the statement they did without Dale Jr. taking his position.

And yes, are we going to help out Puerto Rico anytime soon?



Not the right pigmentation for expedient help in the current administration.

RainMaker 09-25-2017 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3176556)
Well the midterm elections are coming up in the not so distant future and somebody with failed policies and complete failure of leadership should get trounced. However running on "Rich NFL players or the common people" platform may end up winning again. Most intelligent people can see right though that but we kind of thought the same thing last November right?


I agree. It's a time-tested plan he's using. Portray the darker skin folks as not "true Americans". Works even better if they became successful and you can call them spoiled. This is what the birther stuff was all about. It's what the stuff about left-handed pledges and not wearing lapel pins was about.

It works because it plays to racist beliefs without actually coming out and stating the racist belief.

And for some reason this country cares more about culture wars than anything else. This goes for both sides too. Maybe there is some kind of psychological reason for it but it's just how things are.

Atocep 09-25-2017 02:13 PM

What's astounding is the players being out there for the anthem is a paid recruiting tool by the government. We had no problem with players staying in the locker room for the anthem until the government was paying for patriotism and didn't get it.

kingfc22 09-25-2017 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick (Post 3176605)
Not the right pigmentation for expedient help in the current administration.


I had that exact sentiment in my post, but ended up deleting it.

digamma 09-25-2017 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3176461)
The longer this goes on the more he's Tommie Smith and John Carlos.


So the question becomes, who is our Peter Norman?

NobodyHere 09-25-2017 03:36 PM

North Korea says that Trump declared war on them.

Fun Times

JPhillips 09-25-2017 04:23 PM

Remember that time two days ago when Trump tweeted that Iran had tested a missile? Turns out they didn't. He was fooled by a video from months ago.

That seems like a dangerous precedent.

EagleFan 09-25-2017 04:50 PM

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https...t8qL7X95Oi9n-j


Maybe he should follow his own advice.

larrymcg421 09-25-2017 05:11 PM

That moment when your jingoistic alt-right hero is not a jingoistic alt-right hero...

PITTSBURGH STEELERS: Villanueva: Saluting anthem was last-minute decision, teammates didn't know | WPXI

RainMaker 09-25-2017 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3176640)
Remember that time two days ago when Trump tweeted that Iran had tested a missile? Turns out they didn't. He was fooled by a video from months ago.

That seems like a dangerous precedent.


This is why your President should listen to his own intelligence instead of reports from Fox News.

AlexB 09-25-2017 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3176640)
Remember that time two days ago when Trump tweeted that Iran had tested a missile? Turns out they didn't. He was fooled by a video from months ago.

That seems like a dangerous precedent.


Sounds more like a dangerous President to me.

Boom!

(I'll get my coat)

NobodyHere 09-25-2017 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB (Post 3176658)
Sounds more like a dangerous President to me.

Boom!

(I'll get my coat)



Edward64 09-25-2017 07:26 PM

Let's get to tax reform now.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/politi...tus/index.html
Quote:

Sen. Susan Collins announced Monday afternoon that she will oppose the GOP's latest plan to overhaul the Affordable Care Act, bringing the total number of public "no" votes to three and likely killing the last-ditch effort to repeal Obamacare this week.

In a statement, the Maine Republican said the bill does not go far enough to protect people with pre-existing conditions and that the proposal's cuts to Medicaid are too steep.

"Sweeping reforms to our health care system and to Medicaid can't be done well in a compressed time frame, especially when the actual bill is a moving target," Collins said. The bill would also "open the door for states to weaken protections for people with pre-existing conditions, such as asthma, cancer, heart disease, arthritis and diabetes."

larrymcg421 09-25-2017 07:27 PM

Tax reform is great. Give D.C. 2 Senators and a Rep or exempt them from taxes.

tarcone 09-25-2017 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3176665)
Tax reform is great. Give D.C. 2 Senators and a Rep or exempt them from taxes.


You have a point. Taxation without representation. Isnt that one of the reasons we revolted?

kingfc22 09-25-2017 07:58 PM

Trump handlers finally pulled him away from Fox News long enough to remind him to mention Puerto Rico. Of course this crisis is on them for having poor infrastructure to begin with.

But don’t worry, everything is “doing well”. This MFer is simply unreal.

tarcone 09-25-2017 08:01 PM

Federal dollars may drive them to statehood. :)

Easy Mac 09-25-2017 08:14 PM

It's telling that his first concern is for Wall Street getting their money back, then kinda sorta the actual human devastation.

mckerney 09-26-2017 01:09 PM

No vote will be held on Graham-Cassidy. Now to see if they'll try to write and pass a new bill in 4 days time.

Thomkal 09-26-2017 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 3176775)
No vote will be held on Graham-Cassidy. Now to see if they'll try to write and pass a new bill in 4 days time.


yes but...

GOP already eyeing next chance to revive Obamacare repeal - POLITICO

bronconick 09-26-2017 01:56 PM

They've been struggling to get 50+VP on health care alone. Does anyone think they can get 50+ on health care+ tax cuts?

JPhillips 09-26-2017 01:58 PM

Does anyone know Arizona law on replacing deceased Senators? This would be a lot easier with a reliable Yes vote instead of McCain.

Easy Mac 09-26-2017 02:01 PM

This line speaks volumes about Conservatives outlook on life:

Quote:

“it’s not like we couldn’t slip it in anyway.”

BishopMVP 09-26-2017 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3176649)
That moment when your jingoistic alt-right hero is not a jingoistic alt-right hero...

PITTSBURGH STEELERS: Villanueva: Saluting anthem was last-minute decision, teammates didn't know | WPXI

I think the multiple tours in Afghanistan as a Ranger made him a hero and a patriot regardless of what he did Sunday.

albionmoonlight 09-26-2017 04:49 PM

If I were a GOP voter, I wouldn't be pissed just b/c Obamacare repeal has failed so far. Remaking health care is hard--see how long it took the Democrats to do it.

I'd be pissed that they already passed Obamacare repeal dozens (hundreds?) of times when Obama was president, but refused to just pass those same bills now that they have a Prez who will sign them.

Atocep 09-26-2017 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP (Post 3176823)
I think the multiple tours in Afghanistan as a Ranger made him a hero and a patriot regardless of what he did Sunday.


I tend to agree. However...

I served 9 years and my wife currently serves and I'm uncomfortable with how we tend to put service members on a pedestal. Villanueva came out and admitted he screwed up in how he handled this. But the immediate reaction by many was to praise him, buy his jerseys, and trash the rest of the Steelers players along with the NFL without giving thought to the fact that Villanueva may not be the good guy in this. I'm not saying he's the bad guy, but it's difficult to say he was in the right here.

We've become a society where it's unamerican to even question a service member and their service is used to push agendas more than anything.

Atocep 09-26-2017 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3176826)
If I were a GOP voter, I wouldn't be pissed just b/c Obamacare repeal has failed so far. Remaking health care is hard--see how long it took the Democrats to do it.

I'd be pissed that they already passed Obamacare repeal dozens (hundreds?) of times when Obama was president, but refused to just pass those same bills now that they have a Prez who will sign them.


If I were a GOP voter I'd be pissed that repealing Obamacare has become more about doing to say you did it rather than fix anything. They've openly tried to make healthcare worse for the population as a whole because they're focused on wrong problems.

Repealing Obamacare and doing nothing else would be better than what they've tried to do. They just know it would be political suicide to do so now that more people have some form of healthcare.

Easy Mac 09-26-2017 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3176826)
If I were a GOP voter, I wouldn't be pissed just b/c Obamacare repeal has failed so far. Remaking health care is hard--see how long it took the Democrats to do it.

I'd be pissed that they already passed Obamacare repeal dozens (hundreds?) of times when Obama was president, but refused to just pass those same bills now that they have a Prez who will sign them.


What you mean, the Dems drafted it in 3 hours and snuck it into law. That's what my reps tell me in SC.

Easy Mac 09-26-2017 05:40 PM

I expect articulate Trump to emerge now that Twitter is jumping to 280 characters.

Drake 09-26-2017 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3176828)
I tend to agree. However...

I served 9 years and my wife currently serves and I'm uncomfortable with how we tend to put service members on a pedestal. Villanueva came out and admitted he screwed up in how he handled this. But the immediate reaction by many was to praise him, buy his jerseys, and trash the rest of the Steelers players along with the NFL without giving thought to the fact that Villanueva may not be the good guy in this. I'm not saying he's the bad guy, but it's difficult to say he was in the right here.

We've become a society where it's unamerican to even question a service member and their service is used to push agendas more than anything.


Thank you for saying this, Atocep. I worry sometimes about how our country manages to move these sorts of issues into a zone where being a veteran lends someone a special expertise or gravitas...like service somehow makes them more of a citizen (in like a Starship Troopers sense) than everyone else. I've got a brother who is a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force. He's an awesome human being (despite the fact that he's still my stupid kid brother...not sure how that happened). He did three tours in Afghanistan and 1 in Iraq. I'm immensely proud of him. He'd also be the first person to remind me that his education is in Business, not Constitutional Law. The national anthem means something different to him than it does to me because of his experiences, but that doesn't make what it means to me somehow less than or inadequate. Just different.

A reflection of that difference is that the national anthem business doesn't really mean much to me except as an excuse to eat more popcorn when I'm scrolling through Facebook.

That said, my official take on it is that if someone wasn't upset about Tim Tebow taking up company time to kneel in prayer on the sidelines, then they can't really be upset about this, either.

(And I say that acknowledging that I only get pissed off about protests when I disagree with what people are protesting for. I'm as hypocritical as the next guy, but I'd like to think that I'm at least self-aware enough to realize that I'm hypocritical.)

RainMaker 09-26-2017 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3176828)
We've become a society where it's unamerican to even question a service member and their service is used to push agendas more than anything.


We elected a man who trashed a POW for getting captured and belittled a gold star family.

Service members are now just pawns for politicians and their minions to show off faux-patriotism. I'd argue the country doesn't really care at all about them.

JonInMiddleGA 09-26-2017 09:38 PM

How many times have I mentioned in some form or fashion that Trump's support only extends insofar as he delivers?

Roy Moore didn't just win today's runoff, he pretty well trounced the establishment pick that Trump campaigned for.

The WSJ coverage had a beautiful bit that I'm almost giddy about
Quote:

Mr. Moore’s victory could encourage other outsider candidates to challenge incumbent Republicans in the 2018 midterm election, and Mr. Bannon has made plain he wants to help them.

“We’re not going to hug out our differences,” he said at the Moore rally. “We’re going to fight at the ballot box.”

More & more, I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't have just elected Bannon.

edit to add: It's easy to say "oh, it's just Alabama being Alabama" however, how many Trump voters do you think are the "hug it out" type? I dare say it's a damned low percentage.

Easy Mac 09-26-2017 09:40 PM

i still don't get why Trump didn't stump for Moore. He's essentially a more horrible Trump with less money.

Atocep 09-26-2017 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3176863)
How many times have I mentioned in some form or fashion that Trump's support only extends insofar as he delivers?

Roy Moore didn't just win today's runoff, he pretty well trounced the establishment pick that Trump campaigned for.

The WSJ coverage had a beautiful bit that I'm almost giddy about


More & more, I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't have just elected Bannon.


Republicans spent $10 million to try to defeat Moore. McConnell and Co found him so dangerous they spent huge dollars and had the administration campaign for Strange and they still lost. The losses pilling up for McConnell astounding.

JonInMiddleGA 09-26-2017 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac (Post 3176865)
i still don't get why Trump didn't stump for Moore. He's essentially a more horrible Trump with less money.


I think -- and this is the reason I felt like Trump's mistake in choices is kind of forgivable -- Trump was being loyal to someone that supported him, fairly early on too IIRC.

The message -- which I'm not particularly confident will be heard -- that was sent back to Trump was "get shit done ... or we'll find people that will"

McConnell backing the loser here feels awfully big to me too. Not sure you could get a much bigger kiss of death than that. (for a candidate, not for McConnell himself)

Thomkal 09-26-2017 10:29 PM

Well normally I'd be happy that a Trump-backed candidate lost (but Donald you said he win!), but Moore is so much more in Trump's style, and so anti-gay that I can't really say I'm happy he won.

http://time.com/4958583/roy-moore-lu...-donald-trump/

larrymcg421 09-26-2017 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP (Post 3176823)
I think the multiple tours in Afghanistan as a Ranger made him a hero and a patriot regardless of what he did Sunday.


Whooooooooosh

RainMaker 09-27-2017 01:01 AM

That Roy Moore dude is a nutter. Damn. Well done Alabama. You're where you are for a reason. :lol:

JPhillips 09-27-2017 06:58 AM

Trump's been deleting all his Luther Strange tweets. Before the general election he's going to claim he was the first to endorse Moore.

miked 09-27-2017 07:00 AM

I love how all these people that shout "constitution" and are so pissed that illegals break the law, keep getting behind folks that do not seems to respect the constitution or laws...

Groundhog 09-27-2017 07:00 AM

Class Trump-ism on delivierng aid to Puerto Rico:

"This is an island sitting in the middle of an ocean. It’s a big ocean, it’s a very big ocean."

I'm going to try this next time I'm in a meeting and something comes up that I know next to nothing about... Say the one (unrelated, if possible) thing I do know about it, and then emphasis my own point.

Thomkal 09-27-2017 10:16 AM

Donald Trump's Attempt At Using Usain Bolt To Slam NFL Players Spectacularly Backfires

Easy Mac 09-27-2017 12:35 PM

They keep turning up voter fraud in the oddest places:

Jared Kushner registered in New York as a female voter

Quote:

"Kushner can't even fill out the most basic paperwork without screwing it up, so it's a mystery why anyone thinks he's somehow going to bring peace to the Middle East," Brad Bainum, a spokesperson for the group, told Wired about the mistake. "Would anyone but the president's son-in-law still have a West Wing job after repeated disclosure errors and a botched a security clearance form?"

I think he mean's daughter-in-law.

larrymcg421 09-27-2017 12:49 PM

When Moore inevitably wins the general election, I look forward to the Bernie/Stein crowd claiming Doug Jones wasn't sufficiently progressive enough to win.

Thomkal 09-27-2017 01:47 PM

Paul Horner, writer of fake news about 2016 election, found dead - CBS News

Kodos 09-27-2017 02:19 PM

That's a shame.

Drake 09-27-2017 02:32 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Better than the Tebow analogy.

Edward64 09-27-2017 02:37 PM

The tax plan framework is coming out. TBH, not sure how it works out for me but good to know they are working on it.

Details of GOP tax plan framework revealed - Sep. 27, 2017
Quote:

CNN obtained a copy Wednesday of a Republican framework for tax reform that has been in the works for months and will finally be presented Wednesday.

The blueprint, which President Trump will discuss in a speech Wednesday, omits many critical details and numbers that congressional tax writers will now have to decide on as they draft legislation.

It's not clear yet, however, just how closely the tax-writing committees will hew to that framework since it's been negotiated behind closed doors by just six key players from the White House, House and Senate. And even that small group -- known as the Big Six -- took a long time to reach broad agreement.

Easy Mac 09-27-2017 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake (Post 3176958)
Better than the Tebow analogy.


The amusing thing is, she didn't protest, she refused to do her job. The players are still doing their job.

Drake 09-27-2017 05:16 PM

I've seen plenty of feedback on Tebow from conservatives -- i.e., he was ridiculed, harangued by the media, and ultimately driven out of football for kneeling in prayer.

I really want to respond, "I'm pretty sure he was driven out of football mostly because he could only complete 50% of his passes."

But I'd say the same thing about Kaepernick, too. You have more of a margin for being controversial (or even flat fucking up) if you're in the elite tier. If you're replacement level, your job was on the block at the end of your contract whether or not you kept your mouth shut.

miami_fan 09-27-2017 06:35 PM

Trump says he may sign executive order on health care next week - Sep. 27, 2017

Vince, Pt. II 09-27-2017 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake (Post 3176971)
I've seen plenty of feedback on Tebow from conservatives -- i.e., he was ridiculed, harangued by the media, and ultimately driven out of football for kneeling in prayer.

I really want to respond, "I'm pretty sure he was driven out of football mostly because he could only complete 50% of his passes."

But I'd say the same thing about Kaepernick, too. You have more of a margin for being controversial (or even flat fucking up) if you're in the elite tier. If you're replacement level, your job was on the block at the end of your contract whether or not you kept your mouth shut.


Problem is that Kaepernick is above replacement level. And much better than many of the QBs that moved this off-season.

He's not a star, but he's definitely worthy of a roster shot on talent alone. Add in the social commentary...I understand why teams wouldn't want to give him a shot, but it still seems hard to believe that ALL of the teams wouldn't want to. I wonder how this latest step in the controversy changes that dynamic, if it all.

CrescentMoonie 09-27-2017 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II (Post 3176981)
Problem is that Kaepernick is above replacement level. And much better than many of the QBs that moved this off-season.

He's not a star, but he's definitely worthy of a roster shot on talent alone. Add in the social commentary...I understand why teams wouldn't want to give him a shot, but it still seems hard to believe that ALL of the teams wouldn't want to. I wonder how this latest step in the controversy changes that dynamic, if it all.


Kaepernick looked good before the league figured out how to defend the read option. Since then the only time he looked good was Chip Kelly's joke of an offense that made Nick Foles look like a superstar, and even then he was under 60% completions. He's not above replacement level in an actual NFL offense.

bronconick 09-27-2017 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan (Post 3176975)


I'm pretty sure that would involve the interstate commerce clause, meaning that it would need congressional action.

BYU 14 09-27-2017 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie (Post 3176983)
Kaepernick looked good before the league figured out how to defend the read option. Since then the only time he looked good was Chip Kelly's joke of an offense that made Nick Foles look like a superstar, and even then he was under 60% completions. He's not above replacement level in an actual NFL offense.


His career QBR is 88.9, which over the last three seasons (2014-2016) ranks ahead of 16, 16 and 18 teams in the NFL. In 5 full seasons he has been 90 or better 3 times, with only one season below 86. I would say he is at least worthy of a back spot for 18-20 NFL teams currently. He is a shade under 60% in his career for completion pct, but he does not turn the ball over much either, being in single digits in picks every season but one, when he threw 10, so he is not going to kill you there either.

CrescentMoonie 09-28-2017 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU 14 (Post 3176992)
His career QBR is 88.9, which over the last three seasons (2014-2016) ranks ahead of 16, 16 and 18 teams in the NFL. In 5 full seasons he has been 90 or better 3 times, with only one season below 86. I would say he is at least worthy of a back spot for 18-20 NFL teams currently. He is a shade under 60% in his career for completion pct, but he does not turn the ball over much either, being in single digits in picks every season but one, when he threw 10, so he is not going to kill you there either.


Let's not forget that he also opted out of $14 million guaranteed and asked for starter money. He's a gimmick QB who thinks he should be paid like a star. His career QBR is irrelevant to each individual season. His rating under Harbaugh running the read option was 98.3, 91.6, and 86.4, going down each year. His rating under Kelly running the Duck offense was 90.7. The one year in a traditional offense was 78.5. You're not getting starting QB money, or a guaranteed starting job, when your one season in a traditional offense was 78.5.

He's a guy who completes somewhere around 59% of his passes and doesn't have anything that suggests he'll succeed in most NFL offenses. Couple that with the circus around him and the money he was demanding, and you've got a recipe for unemployment.

JPhillips 09-28-2017 08:20 AM

McConnell has a -42 net approval.

With Trump voters.

I'm not sure I understand the genius of Trump's "Fuck all these Republicans!" strategy.

Vince, Pt. II 09-28-2017 08:33 AM

Colin Kaepernick is not supposed to be unemployed.

Linked in that article: Colin Kaepernick is better than Joe Flacco.

While the majority of the second article is "Joe Flacco is completely terrible," it goes on to show that in advanced metrics Kaepernick has improved significantly, improving his ability to read defenses, move within the pocket, and throw extremely accurately in short range passes (top five in the league accurate), all while suffering the worst catch rate on catchable passes in the league, suffering through multiple offensive coordinators, and having garbage talent around him.

CrescentMoonie 09-28-2017 08:47 AM

And when the team that employs Flacco was ready to sign Kaepernick, his psychotic girlfriend called the team owner a slave owner. Kaepernick is where he is because he can't play in a real offense, wants to be paid like a starter, and has more controversy and nonsense around him than Tebow did.

If he was that good he would be playing.

BYU 14 09-28-2017 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie (Post 3177001)
Let's not forget that he also opted out of $14 million guaranteed and asked for starter money. He's a gimmick QB who thinks he should be paid like a star. His career QBR is irrelevant to each individual season. His rating under Harbaugh running the read option was 98.3, 91.6, and 86.4, going down each year. His rating under Kelly running the Duck offense was 90.7. The one year in a traditional offense was 78.5. You're not getting starting QB money, or a guaranteed starting job, when your one season in a traditional offense was 78.5.

He's a guy who completes somewhere around 59% of his passes and doesn't have anything that suggests he'll succeed in most NFL offenses. Couple that with the circus around him and the money he was demanding, and you've got a recipe for unemployment.


He isn't Tom Brady, but he isn't Matt Barkley, Geno Smith or Dan Orlovsky either. Many players have been given jobs after far more egregious acts than taking a knee, which we have entire teams doing now. I get why he doesn't have a job, but it's not like he is the outlier anymore. And the starter money narrative is not true, his agent released details of what they were looking for and it was not 10 million as was reported.

BYU 14 09-28-2017 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie (Post 3177011)
And when the team that employs Flacco was ready to sign Kaepernick, his psychotic girlfriend called the team owner a slave owner. Kaepernick is where he is because he can't play in a real offense, wants to be paid like a starter, and has more controversy and nonsense around him than Tebow did.

If he was that good he would be playing.


He does need to tell his girl to stay out of the equation.

Vince, Pt. II 09-28-2017 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie (Post 3177011)
And when the team that employs Flacco was ready to sign Kaepernick, his psychotic girlfriend called the team owner a slave owner. Kaepernick is where he is because he can't play in a real offense, wants to be paid like a starter, and has more controversy and nonsense around him than Tebow did.

If he was that good he would be playing.


Everything you have said in here is true except for the "can't play in a real offense" and "if he was that good he would be playing" parts. The articles show that he is, in fact, that good. Better than half the QBs in the league in raw stats, and even better than that gives him credit for in the advanced look. He is an above-average quarterback by definition. But he's unemployed.

I'm not saying I don't understand it - I totally understand it. I also think it's stupid, and that teams are hurting themselves performance-wise by ignoring him.

CrescentMoonie 09-28-2017 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU 14 (Post 3177012)
He isn't Tom Brady, but he isn't Matt Barkley, Geno Smith or Dan Orlovsky either. Many players have been given jobs after far more egregious acts than taking a knee, which we have entire teams doing now. I get why he doesn't have a job, but it's not like he is the outlier anymore. And the starter money narrative is not true, his agent released details of what they were looking for and it was not 10 million as was reported.


Did those other players demand more than $14 million per year and have a girlfriend call one of the team owners a slave owner when he was set to sign them?

CrescentMoonie 09-28-2017 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II (Post 3177016)
Everything you have said in here is true except for the "can't play in a real offense" and "if he was that good he would be playing" parts. The articles show that he is, in fact, that good. Better than half the QBs in the league in raw stats, and even better than that gives him credit for in the advanced look. He is an above-average quarterback by definition. But he's unemployed.

I'm not saying I don't understand it - I totally understand it. I also think it's stupid, and that teams are hurting themselves performance-wise by ignoring him.


He played 1 season in a real offense, 2015. If they break down that season, compared to someone like Flacco, then I'll be interested. What he did last year was irrelevant, it's the same offense that made Nick Foles look like a star.

Vince, Pt. II 09-28-2017 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie (Post 3177020)
Did those other players demand more than $14 million per year and have a girlfriend call one of the team owners a slave owner when he was set to sign them?


BYU mentioned his salary demands were not that high, per the agent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie (Post 3177021)
He played 1 season in a real offense, 2015. If they break down that season, compared to someone like Flacco, then I'll be interested. What he did last year was irrelevant, it's the same offense that made Nick Foles look like a star.


That's the point, they aren't breaking down the offense - they're breaking down things like individual throws by distance and accuracy, his ability to read the defense and check down his options.

CrescentMoonie 09-28-2017 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II (Post 3177023)
BYU mentioned his salary demands were not that high, per the agent.


I don't believe agents, period, and his agent only said that after teams were leaking his demands to the press.

Quote:

That's the point, they aren't breaking down the offense - they're breaking down things like individual throws by distance and accuracy, his ability to read the defense and check down his options.

The numbers are context specific. The offensive system clearly plays a role in a player's production. Jared Goff under Jeff Fischer to Jared Goff under Sean McVay is already looking to be exhibit A in that situation.

PilotMan 09-28-2017 10:07 AM

Take your gratuitous football talk elsewhere. What kind of place do you think this is?

Vince, Pt. II 09-28-2017 10:08 AM

I don't know if I can be clearer - they looked at his numbers and showed that he was better than half the league. Then, in an effort to eliminate the context you continue to harp on, they analyzed aspects of his game that are not context dependent. How he moves in the pocket to avoid a pass rush has nothing to do with the offensive scheme. Whether or not the throw he made on a given play was accurate has very little (if anything) to do with scheme. They specifically analyze these things to eliminate as much scheme/relative talent bias as possible.

stevew 09-28-2017 10:11 AM

CK opted out of a completely non guaranteed contract. He didn't want to go thru all of the preseason without a guarantee. His contract was changed in 2016 and he waived some injury guarantees at that time so they would let him play.

Even if CK had picked up his player option, the Niners likely would have cut him.

molson 09-28-2017 10:54 AM

I think we have evidence now that kneeling wasn't the thing keeping him out of the league - kneeling is now the cool thing to do and even some of the owners are doing it. (And all are defending it).

I feel like with Kaep there's more of a total package there - the Castro worship, the girlfriend, the police pig socks - and his comments about what the protests meant to him and what his views are are a lot different than the way the players talk about the protests now. It's evolved a lot, it's gotten more NFL- and corporate-friendly. (I wonder how Kaep feels seeing Jerry Jones kneeling with players and chasing down a cameraman to make sure he gets on TV- we might only be a couple of weeks away from this all becoming a Pepsi ad.) I think if Kaep was an anonymous personality and was willing to pay for the minimum, he'd have a job, but he's not nearly good enough to overcome the character he's created for himself. That's not crazy or unprecedented, I think plenty of fringe guys in sports (or business) can find themselves on the outside if they're too controversial.

Atocep 09-28-2017 11:25 AM

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/06/nf...lin-kaepernick

That's an article that touches on why NFL coaches aren't as high on Kaepernick as you might think with his stats.

stevew 09-28-2017 12:45 PM

Kaep struck me as a guy who looked super elite at times and then would miss throws that a third grader could hit. He should be rostered somewhere as he's probably a top 25 QB or better.

Edward64 09-28-2017 02:49 PM

China is adding some pressure. Not sure how much of a real impact but it seems more than what they have done in the past.

China Ordered All North Korean-Owned Businesses to Close
Quote:

On Thursday, China ordered all North Korean-owned businesses to close, according to Business Insider. This cuts foreign revenue for North Korea under U.N. sanctions that were imposed because of the country’s nuclear and missile programs. Chin

According to Business Insider, China is North Korea’s main trading partner. Beijing is essential to the success of sanctions aimed at stopping North Korea’s pursuit of weapons technology. China has spent a long time being North Korea’s diplomatic protector, but is currently going along with the latest penalties. Business Insider writes this is because of growing frustration with Kim Jong Un’s government.

North Korean businesses and ventures with Chinese partners have until early January to close, according to the Ministry of Commerce and reported by Business Insider. North Korean companies have restaurants in China, as well as other ventures, to help provide North Korea with foreign currency. There are also North Korean workers in Chinese factories and other businesses, Business Insider writes.

China’s foreign ministry also asked for a conversation to defuse the growing dispute between President Donald Trump’s government and North Korea. Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said that “breaking the deadlock requires all relevant parties to show their sincerity,” reports Business Insider.

Though China supports the new sanctions, they do not want to push so hard that Kim’s government collapses, writes Business Insider. China is one of the five permanent Security Council members with veto power. The country also argues against doing anything that might hurt the North Korean people. According to Business Insider, Chinese officials complain that their country has to do most of the work, and bears the cost, of enforcing the sanctions, which have hurt businesses in China’s trade with the North.

Effective Jan. 1, China will cut off gas and limit shipments of refined petroleum products. It has also banned imports of North Korean coal, iron, and lead ore, as well as seafood, since early September, Business Insider reports.

Easy Mac 09-28-2017 02:52 PM

So they're going to try and make it Trump's Puerto Rico?

NobodyHere 09-28-2017 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3177094)
China is adding some pressure. Not sure how much of a real impact but it seems more than what they have done in the past.

China Ordered All North Korean-Owned Businesses to Close


It is just me or is Trump actually making more progress on North Korea than the past couple presidents?

Or do I just have amnesia?

Edward64 09-28-2017 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3177099)
It is just me or is Trump actually making more progress on North Korea than the past couple presidents?

Or do I just have amnesia?


I'm not sure I would call it progress but Trump has certainly "unsettled" the crazy kid more than past Presidents acting with the presidential constraint.

Atocep 09-28-2017 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3177099)
It is just me or is Trump actually making more progress on North Korea than the past couple presidents?

Or do I just have amnesia?


I don't think anyone has made progress with North Korea. They're still moving forward on nuclear weapons. That's the problem and it's difficult to say Trump has made any progress when they're comfortable enough to fire misses over Japan.

panerd 09-28-2017 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3177099)
It is just me or is Trump actually making more progress on North Korea than the past couple presidents?

Or do I just have amnesia?


Chicken or the egg I guess. He seems less willing to put up with their nonsense but in turn I think that has led to more nonsense.

CrescentMoonie 09-28-2017 03:27 PM

All Trump has done is accelerate the craziness of North Korea. He's basically pushed them into warp drive because he has the decorum of a special needs chimp.

CrescentMoonie 09-28-2017 03:28 PM

Detroit Lions' Akeem Spence: My father lost a job due to my protest

Despicable doesn't even begin to describe it. Herr Trump has made it okay to target the livelihood of black families.

tarcone 09-28-2017 03:50 PM

Yep, play the victim card.
Sounds like the player may have thought about the consequences of HIS actions.
Maybe he should have thought about what could happen.

Part of the problem is no one accepting responsibility for their actions. It is always someone else's fault.

Toddzilla 09-28-2017 04:00 PM

Lost a job? First, the guy is a contractor and was looking for work, he wasn't fired. Second, the dude in charge of hiring people simply said "Hire you? Nope."

That is a *far cry* from the insinuation of the headline - that a football player's father was fired from his job because of the player's protest.

CrescentMoonie 09-28-2017 04:26 PM

Twitter finds hundreds of accounts tied to Russian operatives - The Washington Post

JPhillips 09-28-2017 05:37 PM

What bullshit. Sec. Price is going to reimburse the government for his carter planes, by paying the equivalent cost of a business class ticket.

Not the difference between business class and charter, just the cost of business class tickets.

Easy Mac 09-28-2017 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie (Post 3177125)


How brave of Twitter. I could have done that in 5 minutes on a Saturday morning.

JonInMiddleGA 09-28-2017 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla (Post 3177116)
Lost a job? First, the guy is a contractor and was looking for work, he wasn't fired. Second, the dude in charge of hiring people simply said "Hire you? Nope."


Wouldn't hire somebody that I knew raised a complete p.o.s. like his son either.

Every last one of the bastards should be unemployed.

stevew 09-28-2017 06:12 PM

So I'm reading about this great tax reform and part of the plan is to eliminate the deduction for state income taxes paid. Like seriously what the fuck.

Marc Vaughan 09-28-2017 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3177137)
Wouldn't hire somebody that I knew raised a complete p.o.s. like his son either.
Every last one of the bastards should be unemployed.


Lets get this clear - you consider him both a p.o.s and a bastard because he's making a polite and peaceful protest about what he sees as an unfair issue in society ... how would you consider it acceptable for him to make this point and protest?

(bearing in mind that in many of the NFL cases the team owners have demonstrated they SUPPORT the protests so you can't say 'he shouldn't do it at work'... the work has accepted its alright to and as a free country it is surely their choice to make that decision?)

SirFozzie 09-28-2017 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3177137)
Wouldn't hire somebody that I knew raised a complete p.o.s. like his son either.

Every last one of the bastards should be unemployed.


Only if you think it's fair to do the same to Magamorons.

SirFozzie 09-28-2017 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 3177159)
Lets get this clear - you consider him both a p.o.s and a bastard because he's making a polite and peaceful protest about what he sees as an unfair issue in society ... how would you consider it acceptable for him to make this point and protest?

(bearing in mind that in many of the NFL cases the team owners have demonstrated they SUPPORT the protests so you can't say 'he shouldn't do it at work'... the work has accepted its alright to and as a free country it is surely their choice to make that decision?)


Answer: There is no form of protest that they'd accept. Look at the 72 olympics. It's nothing new.

Edward64 09-28-2017 09:08 PM

It'll be interesting to see what happens this Sun.

My guess is fan backlash made the Packers blink and use the stand-and-link-arms vs the take a knee/seat variant.

Which Green Bay Packers Sat During the National Anthem? [Sept.*28]
Quote:

Three Green Bay Packers stayed seated during the National Anthem on Sunday, September 24 after a war of words ignited between President Donald Trump and the NFL. However, things changed on Thursday, September 28.

Edward64 09-28-2017 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 3177159)
...
(bearing in mind that in many of the NFL cases the team owners have demonstrated they SUPPORT the protests so you can't say 'he shouldn't do it at work'... the work has accepted its alright to and as a free country it is surely their choice to make that decision?)


Just to be clear, if it was the pre-Trump protest, the owners did not support it.

If it was post-Trump, the owners "supported" it more as a defense mechanism than believing the Kaepernick pre-Trump stance.

Edward64 09-28-2017 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew (Post 3177144)
So I'm reading about this great tax reform and part of the plan is to eliminate the deduction for state income taxes paid. Like seriously what the fuck.


I thought the increase in HSA contributions was going to be part of it but I didn't see any reference to it. Major disappointment if its not included.

Galaril 09-28-2017 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3177170)
It'll be interesting to see what happens this Sun.

My guess is fan backlash made the Packers blink and use the stand-and-link-arms vs the take a knee/seat variant.

Which Green Bay Packers Sat During the National Anthem? [Sept.*28]


Yeah the NFL realizes football has plenty of "blue color" good ole "patriotic" Americans that won't tolerate disrespecting a symbol of white privileged. I don't expect NFL to support the player protests now that (white) fans are starting to complain.

miami_fan 09-28-2017 10:04 PM

I actually saw two adult men come to blows tonight NOT because of either man kneeling during the anthem. Man #1 did not have his hand over his heart during the anthem. Man #2 called him on it. Man #1 did not appreciate having his patriot card pulled. Words were exchanged and then punches were thrown.

Fun times at youth football!

BYU 14 09-29-2017 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan (Post 3177180)
I actually saw two adult men come to blows tonight NOT because of either man kneeling during the anthem. Man #1 did not have his hand over his heart during the anthem. Man #2 called him on it. Man #1 did not appreciate having his patriot card pulled. Words were exchanged and then punches were thrown.

Fun times at youth football!


Stupid. I have never put my hand over my heart because, but hold the anthem in total reverence.

panerd 09-29-2017 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril (Post 3177175)
Yeah the NFL realizes football has plenty of "blue color" good ole "patriotic" Americans that won't tolerate disrespecting a symbol of white privileged. I don't expect NFL to support the player protests now that (white) fans are starting to complain.


Really? We have now reached the point where the American flag/National Anthem are referred to as symbols of white privileged? The hyperbole on both sides continues to amp up with each passing day.

CrescentMoonie 09-29-2017 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3177195)
Really? We have now reached the point where the American flag/National Anthem are referred to as symbols of white privileged? The hyperbole on both sides continues to amp up with each passing day.


Delanie Walker, who went on a USO tour this summer and has done several activities for military personnel, is getting death threats for telling people who don't like the protests that it's their right to stay home from games if it offends them. So, yes, when black athletes are getting death threats for protesting violence against people of color in society, it is being used as a means of oppression for those who experience white privilege.

Butter 09-29-2017 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3177099)
It is just me or is Trump actually making more progress on North Korea than the past couple presidents?

Or do I just have amnesia?


Do you really consider nuclear brinkmanship progress?

I view it more as "playing ego games with millions of people's lives," but whatever.


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