Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 22, 2017

But he'll still complain when they do it.

Not if you're a white supremacist.

As is his right

Totally his right to call them "sons of bitches."

So many Trump supporters in my circle constantly complain that he is treated so much harsher than any other president, and how can you argue, when he does it all to himself? He has brought all of it upon himself. His actions, especially as the most powerful man in the world, will come back to him in kind. It's his MO. He is so used to behaving any way he can, and as the head of his own family business he doesn't have anyone higher up to challenge any of his words, and if they do, he has the pockets to sue them to shut them up. He's simply not smart enough, or shall I say, he's narcissistic enough to believe that he can get away with it now. This is "New Presidential" so the rest of the US needs to be prepared for the new response from his opponents to deal with it.

Trump praises players locking arms during anthem, still opposed to kneeling

I gotta agree with Trump on this one.

Why one and not the other? .. what is 'bad' about kneeling as a statement? ... I'm intruiged despite the fact I realise he's mainly doing this to distract from the debacle elsewhere in his presidency ..

Standing is a sign of respect. Kneeling is a sign of disrespect.

So was taking up arms against the US military, but white trash still for Confederate Battle Flags on their truck.

Also, in this situation locking arms is a sign of disrespect. They're doing it in support of those kneeling, so they're explicitly supporting the sign of disrespect.

I've thought about it a little more and while I'm not a yuuuuuuge fan of the locking arms (I just want politics out of NFL games), it is better than kneeling.

I seriously don't understand how you could see kneeling as an unforgivable sign of disrespect and proudly display a confederate flag.

What? :lol:

I was at a minimum league baseball game last month. I was at the head of the concession line when the anthem started. I was legit confused what to do. I ended up turning and having no idea where a flag was, but not everyone did and the workers just carried on.

I don't like how Trump said it but I do see kneeling (pre-Trump) as a sign of disrespect to the flag, country and those that fought to preserve it.

I'm sure there's more complex rationalization going on behind the scenes but I can't help but think its mostly a bunch of rich, spoiled players wanting to make a political statement while they have the stage (to be clear, I disagree with Emmy's etc. being politicized also).

If you don't like the political situation or BLM is something you support, find ways of supporting your cause, overcoming oppression (or whatever) without giving the finger to the flag.

Do the players have a right to kneel, sure. Do we (and the owners) have the right to respond negatively/blackballing if we disagree, sure. Kneeling and locking arms now are more a sign of solidarity vs original issue and I'm okay with that for now.

Under whose interpretation? Seriously, Tony Jefferson of the Ravens knelt, placed his hand on his heart and silently looked at the flag as the anthem played. Kenny Stills of the Dolphins did the same. Yet this is more disrespectful than the fans you see at every game who stand and talk through the whole anthem, play on their phones or just keep walking munching their nachos while the anthem plays?

Kneeling and still acknowledging the flag is far more respectful than any of those actions. In fact, players kneel when someone is injured, is that disrespectful? You can kneel and still show a modicum of respect to the flag and those who serve under it.

Except that it's "standing in solidarity" with the worthless clueless gits that picked the wrong side of a virtual non-issue in the first place.

Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas, that old saw seems to apply here pretty well.

Did Kapernick do this? I didn't read about this.

Did Tony Jefferson and Kenny Stills do this prior to the Kapernick backlash? Honestly don't know.

The one thing I don't have a problem with -- in theory, if not so much in application necessarily -- however is simply going about your business.

I don't play the national anthem before starting my work day, odds are 99.9% of the people in the stands don't either, and I don't feel like it's necessary to do so before anybody else's either. I'd be fine with the playing of the anthem being eliminated before all sporting events. I'm even okay with the concessionaires going on with their duties, there's no attempt at "statement" there, other than "I like getting paid for doing my job".

There's a significant dividing line between any of that and an intentional display of disrespect.

I've never been comfortable stopping to "worship" a flag or a song. It always seems like a moment more fitting for a monarchy or dictatorship than a democracy. The freedom to not participate should be respected like the freedom to be able to participate.

The whole thing doesn't mean anything if everyone is forced to participate.

Kushner used private email to conduct White House business - POLITICO

LOCK. HIM. UP.

Maybe we can all agree Ray Lewis has the worst look of anybody.

This is a peaceful protest. I get Jon's reaction, but I really don't understand the "this is the wrong way to go about it" responses from people who would otherwise agree with what Kaepernick was originally doing this for. Every form of protest disrespects something, but if you agree with the reason for the protest and its peaceful, then isn't that more important?

I think it's a sign of disrespect when a draft dodger calls a Vietnam POW who refused to jump the line "not a war hero". Or when a draft dodger belittles a gold star family.

Let's stop pretending this has something to do with patriotism or respect for the flag. The people who voted for the guy gave up that moral high ground.

Isn't the anthem played to get people excited for the upcoming event. Doesn't everyone like freedom of expression. Thought it was one thing people agreed on, but we can't even get along in the area. Sad times.

In almost every venue, I think process arguments are really about content.

Not sure on this one. Most Americans disagree with Kap's decision to take the knee. He runs the risk of alienating people that might otherwise be sympathetic to his cause.

The longer that this goes on, and the longer that Trump keeps pushing, the more push back he's going to get, the more that Kaep ends up looking like a social visionary, and his blackballing a disgrace. The people that are up in arms wish for the OJ Simpson kind of black man, not the Jim Brown version. The longer this goes on the more he's Tommie Smith and John Carlos.

Honestly I have no idea who Tommie Smith and John Carlos are.

The only time I see complaints about people and the anthem is when it's tinged with racism. I've been to tons of games and people sit, go to the bathroom, eat nachos, and play on their phones during the anthem.

No one cares about the "disprespect" for the flag when it covers the field before a game (which is against flag code). When it's on a college football helmet or baseball hat (also against flag code). When it's on clothing or political marketing materials (also against flag code).

This has nothing to do with the flag or the anthem. It's low hanging fruit to attack black men for having personal freedom and political opinions. There's a reason Kap who is not even employed by an NFL team became a topic at an almost exclusively white rally in Alabama. I personally don't care about the topic but grow a set of testicles and admit what you're really upset about.

Nope, not me. It really is because I perceive it as disrespecting the flag and what people have fought and died for. Definitely not to attack black men for having personal freedom and political opinions.

Yes, I do think Kap was blackballed. I support his right to do what he wants but there are consequences, and do support the right for others/owners to do what they want in response.

Why no anger at the NFL for displaying the flag across the field which is against flag code? Why no anger for the decals on the helmets which is also against code?

Just curious why your patriotism is so selective?

How many instances have there been where the government has told people how they should act and the government came out on the popular side in the end? If Trump continues to push forward on this issue it's going to make an unpopular administration even more unpopular and make Kaepernick the good guy in just about everyone but 4Chan and far right republican's eyes.

The number of hypocrisies from Trump supports by taking this stance is absurd. The confederate flag, Obama being the decisive president, white supremacists were ok having a peaceful protest, the government shouldn't tell us how to act, ect, ect, ect.

Rainmaker is partially correct saying that part of this is race related. I think the bigger issue here is people tend to really get offended when entertainers take political stances they don't agree with. As a society we are very quick to dismiss their right to do so because of what they do for a living.

I actually didn't know it was against flag code. Intent is what is important, do you think the NFL meant to be disrespectful?

Don't you think if people told the NFL they were being disrespectful that they would stop? I think most people would think the NFL was honoring the flag even though you/official rules may say otherwise.

If it's all about intent, then you shouldn't be mad at the protesters. They've all made it very clear they have no intention of disrespecting the flag or the military.

Not the way to win an argument about social injustice.

So, with that thinking, if the players weren't intending to disrespect the flag but wanted to bring attention to an issue they felt were important, then you're ok with it?

And if the kneeling was in support of a cause you believe strongly in, would that make it ok?

And if the players were speaking out about causes you supported, would you say they need to protest outside of their sport on their own time?

Whether I support what their saying or not, they have every right to say it as long as they aren't breaking the law to do so. As does any other group. That's what's great and not so great about this country.

So much this.

RendeR hasn't been here in years, but he has a pretty strong, and well communicated opinion on the matter and it's distinction.

It's not me saying otherwise, it's the United States government. I would hope the people lecturing others on the proper way to respect the flag and anthem would know the actual rules behind it.

Kaepernick has said he is not doing this to be disrespectful either. So if intent matters, you shouldn't be upset with him.

I don't know if these people upset know the rules. I do estimate that the reaction toward a President bashing the NFL for putting an American flag decal on their helmets wouldn't get the same reaction from a group of white folks in Alabama as calling some uppity black folks sons of bitches.

Is there term such as "beating a dead strawman"?

Just because people criticize someone does not mean we are "dismissing their right to do so". Yet Kap defenders always bring this up. People are free to choose who they listen to. Entertainers are not entitled to an audience.

I sense some nuance argument. Let's level set before we go deeper?

If you are referring to post-Trump tweet current protesters, I agree, it is a reaction against Trump.

I was referring to Kaepernick last year and the smattering of support he got prior to Trump tweet.

Are you referring to pre or post-Trump tweet? If you are referring to pre- can you state what you think they were protesting if not re: flag and what the protesters think it stands for?

I think his statement is in regards to the people who say "stick to sports" when an athlete has an opinion. They aren't disagreeing with their opinion, they are saying that someone who plays sports or acts in movies should not have an opinion (or should not announce it to the world).

Kaep said he was protesting the treatment of minorities in the United States. Like it or hate it, but it isn't about the flag or the military.

Now if you want to say it really is about the flag or the military, then you are implying intent in the same way you are saying is unfair when applied to how the NFL violates the flag code.

The NFL gets paid big money by the Department of Defense. I'd say it's disrespectful to put on obviously staged patriotic acts for millions of dollars. Those soldiers returning home to surprise their family on the field, the DoD also pays big money for those to happen. The NFL doesn't give a rats ass about respecting a piece of cloth, they just want to make money off of it and are willing to do so in any way they can.

Also, how is it disrespectful to stage a protest about inequality and oppression during a song commemorating victory over a government that was doing those very things? The anthem is quite possibly the MOST appropriate time to protest peacefully.

We may read it differently, let's agree to disagree.

Colin Kaepernick explains why he sat during national anthem - NFL.com

We are obviously coming at this from different angles.

I absolutely do support his right to protest. Just don't complain when there are repercussions from people that disagree with him.

How Trump is helping to save our democracy - The Washington Post

Drew Magary (always a voice of solid, conservative reason; he said sarcastically) over at Deadspin from last year on the Anthem. Exceptionally appropriate for today:

"I tell you all this as someone who likes the national anthem, mind you. I’ve sung it in front of crowds and gotten weepy hearing it during fragile moments in both the nation’s history and my own: the Whitney Houston anthem, the entire Garden crowd singing in unison after the Boston Marathon bombing, etc. At its best, hearing the national anthem is like going to church. It’s a unifier. It reminds you, in a comforting way, of things bigger than you. And it reminds you that you aren’t alone. The anthem should make you feel closer to a protestor like Colin Kaepernick, instead of wanting to brand him an enemy of the state. It’s not supposed to be a litmus test for who is with us and who is not. And it NOT meant to be a display of absolute fealty to the American military. In fact, our military exists (in theory) specifically so that no one ever makes such demands of you.

At its worst, the anthem is used as both an ideological cudgel and as a cynical marketing ploy. It’s a cheap, easy way for sports franchises to make themselves as unassailable as the song itself. You trot out some troops, you play the anthem, and PRESTO! You are an honorable all-American franchise with honorable all-American fans doing honorable all-American things, and anyone who dares question you is dishonorable by comparison. Who could argue with a team salutin’ the ol’ troops?

Ninety seconds isn’t nearly enough time to prove a citizen truly cares about their country, nor is it enough time for citizens to properly appreciate a returning veteran who needs more support than a round of courtesy applause. These teams are commodifying their patriotism while also trying to sanctify it."

When those repercussions are rarely expressed in a manner that isn't tacitly anti-constitutional, I'll go ahead and complain/point out the hypocrisy. It's a song that literally lionizes a war fought over the same types of issues that players are protesting over. I've yet to see a single person who can give an argument for why it's disrespectful that holds up to any scrutiny at all.

TBH, I don't see where you are going with this. Sorry if I missed any earlier posts that explains this. Can you refer me to something or elaborate more on how blackballing him is tacitly anti-constitutional?

He has shown more vitriol toward players kneeling before the national anthem than white supremacists who chanted about killing jews in Charlottesville.

If that is directed towards me ... I am not a Trump supporter and am not defending him. There are some things I agree with and many more that I disagree with.

I'm talking about Trump, not you. Sorry.

I have two synthetic flags in great distress that I need to dispose of. There is no manner to do so according to the flag code. Some groups recommend cutting the stripes individually from the blue field and then throwing it all away in a normal trash can. The flag code is clear that you shouldn't throw away a flag.

What happens if people see me cutting up a flag? What if I say I'm cutting it in protest of Trump? What if I say I'm cutting it in protest of our lack of Christian morals? What if I say I'm protesting the stupid things in the last season of GoT?

I've never seen anyone care about the flag stuff unless it involves labeling a minority as unpatriotic. It's a time-tested method by racists to try to differentiate themselves as "real Americans" opposed to those dark skin traitors.

Remember how much dumb shit came up with Obama and flag pins, left-handed pledges, office color schemes, and so on?

And I'm not defending Kap's beliefs or anything. I just don't think this should be a national story that the President has made his primary focus. Especially when we're dealing with a maybe nuclear North Korea, a maybe nuclear Iran, health care, national debt, a US territory knocked back to the dark ages from a hurricane, and a slew of other important issues that actually impact people's lives. We're talking about a national anthem before mostly meaningless football games that the DoD pays the NFL for marketing purposes.

It's the equivalent of complaining about your neighbors shingles not meeting HOA regulations when a hurricane is minutes away.

We know why the President has chosen it, just sad the public bites on it.

Well stated.

Wait, what? Are Kaepernick etc against impressment? The right of immigrants to control their destiny on this continent? The concept of a national bank? Francis Scott Key was kind of a racist dick, but I'm still pro War of 1812.

For all the people on here who think Trump is a buffoon (which he is) it's stuff like this he pulls off that amuses me. Nothing new at all had happened before this shitstorm but he completely shifted the narrative from his failure on health care again (and North Korea) back to an issue that he has all of his base (and then some) on. People can get mad at him all they want but they are the pawns in his game on this one unfortunately.

Or, it gives us something else to complain/question his sanity about over the weekend while allowing us to continue to make fun of him during the week for his failure to get anything done at his actual job.

Also, I like how the narrative is these players are pampered millionaires, while a good portion grew up in abject poverty and are literally the epitome of the American dream.

Meanwhile, his supporters support a guy who has almost certainly never driven a car before because he's grew up so rich.

Yeah I agree with you on this board as the political discussions tend to go deeper and even the disagreeements are mild. But completely disagree on other social media, tv, just general public. They are hook, line, and sinker on this one for sure. Again nothing happened to cause his tweet, not one thing, it's clearly calculated and absolutely working to perfection.

Agree. However Keapernick is generally the target of this criticism since he is the face of this movement and he grew up adopted upper middle class so there is a counter arguement to be had by someone that actually knows a little more than Merica don't tread on me!

Its mainly his twitter bots flooding everything. I feel of the "major" mainstream news sources, Fox is the only one that will continue to hammer it as the day progresses, unless there's some fluff they need to push about Graham/Cassidy's revision to their latest EP or they float more stuff about corporate tax cuts.

I worked out at the gym this morning (with the barrage of tvs) and all the outlets ran mostly this story. (In fact Trump was tweeting again today about it to keep it in the news) The sports networks were the only ones that weren't spending as much time on it. This story is red meat for them pretty sure it will be front and center for a whole.

So when you kneel before God, that is being disrespectul?

What about when you kneel before Zod?

Over three million U.S. citizens have no power, water or communications. The kneel story may dominate the news, but it certainly shouldn't.

He's been in office less than a year and Trump can't pass any legislation and his approval rating is @40%. The distractions aren't working.

So.... In exchange for a modest increase in short term support by his base of supporters, he gives the protesting players a larger platform and even more mainstream attention to their concerns. A platform that apparently runs against conservative desires. What a genius.

Never said his plans were well thought out :) however I guess I would counter that he realizes where his votes are coming from and the kneeling side is not a big part of his reelection focus.

Well the midterm elections are coming up in the not so distant future and somebody with failed policies and complete failure of leadership should get trounced. However running on "Rich NFL players or the common people" platform may end up winning again. Most intelligent people can see right though that but we kind of thought the same thing last November right?

Very true. Taking the "right side" in these pop culture/morality/facebook topic of the day debates is so much more important to Trump's base than Obamacare or North Korea or anything else. That's why Russia can impact elections with thousands of facebook posts. (Though the news that Russia actually was successful in breaching voting machine security in at least some states, and attempted to in many more, seems to really be flying under the radar. But again, what an NFL player decides to do during the national anthem is way more important than that too, I guess). If Trump finds the right controversy regarding a sitcom star he could ride that all the way to another election win in 2020.

I've always heard to give old flags to the Boy Scouts who can dispose of it appropriately. Never tried, my synthetic flag is still holding up great.

And the changes I mentioned earlier to the travel ban have been getting very little attention on the news channels while they all have seemingly given large segments to the NFL/NBA tweets. Be nice if they focused more on the real issues than stuff he brings up to cover up the real issues.

He takes shots at the NBA and NFL while praising Nascar. He couldn't possibly make his intentions more transparent.

Regardless of where you stand, don't think you can blame him for this.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2017/...tional-anthem/

And related to all this - I notice the top story on CNN.com right now is Tom Brady's comments on Trump and the protests. With all the things going on in the world right now.....He's a football player, and by all accounts, not one who is particularly political or a deep thinker.

It's this weird mix of extremes. There's this tendency to define everyone by politics and their political beliefs, but we're doing it through this reality show/crappy journalism lens.

We were really building to this kind of thing as a country. But usually there's backlashes and we reset.

Anthony Weiner gets 21 months in prison for his "sexting case". I hope that is the last we hear of him in the political world.

I think his story is amazing. He was a TE, OT, DT, WR who couldn't get on anywhere:


He went from a 250lb DE to a 340lb OT in a year and got on with PIT. He's a truly amazing individual. The only think you can say is that he went against his coaches wishes to do something that he believe in. The coach is trying to keep a buffer between the players and the media by denying either to make a point. The team wasn't protesting. The coach wanted the team to stick together for the betterment of the team, and by removing them from the situation he didn't allow them to protest either. I love how the media is running with this like the entire team was sitting in the locker room playing jacks in protest, while this brave soldier stood out all alone. He was 15 feet from the rest of the team, who was also standing in the tunnel.

FFS, people, why isn't the President flying to Puerto Rico? Why didn't people get this mad when a Cleveland police officer blew a kid away from near point blank range after engaging him in less than 10 seconds? I don't get it.

This could escalate very quickly. NK has drawn a line it will be hard to step back from now.

North Korea accuses U.S. of declaring war, says can take countermeasures

Yes you do. Its pretty simple.

Also, do you think people buying his jersey know he's only American by birth and his parents are foreigners? These are exactly the type of people they don't want here.

It's possible to admire him and what he did and not be anti-immigrant. I mean, it's pretty clear from his last name that he's not a good old boy from the south.

And his statements about what he did, and about the protests, was all about being a minority and how he felt blanket protests of America were short-sighted exactly because they overlooked that minorities are part of America and have a stake in this too - not just as victims or as some separate entities, but as individuals who can shape things in their own right.

The one thing lost in this is that Dale Earnhardt, Jr., by far the most popular driver, has tweeted in favor of the kneelers (Junior tends to be Center Left on most social issues, I'd say - but a lot of folks don't realize it).

So it sounds like the steelers had a players only meeting and the reason they stayed in the tunnel was to accommodate Villanueva. The players wanted to be all on the same page and Villanueva said he didn't want to be singled out. The compromise was all players stay in the tunnel. Villanueva went against what was decided, to accommodate his wishes, and separated himself from the team to go out there.

If what's being reported is true, all of the praise he's getting is probably going to be accompanied by some locker room resentment.

Wait you mean you can have an intelligent argument on both sides of the debate without resorting to name calling? STFU

Who knew Trump was still this pissed about the USFL folding?

So in a way, maybe Villanueva was protesting the team's decision to collectively avoid individual decisions to protest or not protest and to instead, as a team, do neither. So basically it's the equivalent of if one Steeler decided to come out and sit down or take a knee while everybody else was in the locker room/tunnel. Which, is kind of how this whole thing started, one guy going against the norm and doing his own thing as a form of protest. Once the norm is protesting, not protesting starts to look like a protest.

I hope next week somebody comes out and protests Villanueva's decision not to participate in the collective decision of the team not to participate in the protest debate.

This..... 1000x this....

*raises hand*

FWIW, I'm still pissed he helped wreck the USFL.

What are the odds that Trump tries to use an executive order to do something against the NFL? I'm not sure what.

I am guessing this is one of those "stand in line, we will get to your issue as soon as we can" things.

I am sure they will get around to it at some point.

Never forget the only reason Trump bought into the USFL was because the NFL would not let him own a team. In fact, I think the NFL refused to consider any merger talks with the USFL because of Trump and the thought of having to absorb him as an owner. Trump hates the NFL almost as much as he hates black people.

They said they would get a relief proposal to Congress in a week or two today.

I'm hopeful the FEMA head will see the scope of the problem and things will kick into a higher gear over the next few days. He's been solid so far.

btw- More positions in the executive should have an experience requirement like FEMA head now has due to the Katrina disaster.

If true, lowers my opinion of him but its hard to believe he wanted to grand stand like that after agreeing. Likely more to that story.

If only there was a way to find out. Like a very simple way. Like a way that would've taken maybe 10 seconds to search and result in thousands of articles.

What is even more hilarious is the fact that NASCAR released a PR message shortly thereafter. I highly doubt they make the statement they did without Dale Jr. taking his position.

And yes, are we going to help out Puerto Rico anytime soon?

Just remember Obama brought us NCAA Football Playoffs.