Wait a second...

Daivd is lazy, doesn't think other countries know what they are doing, and blames everyone else for his problems? Holy crap, he's an American! ;)

:D

I get what you are saying, but I think what cartman is trying to imply is that he seems to be using it as an excuse to not fix the problem. Regardless of what may occur while he fixes it, he still has to fix it. Otherwise just let those people get a refund that continue to experience this problem on their systems.

I think the situation with the kick off bug highlights what spcd was saying earlier about the difficulty of fixing a game where the frame rate affects the play outcomes.

Until you fix that problem and get play results stable across all frame rates, it must be incredibly difficult to debug the gameplay. The kick off bug could be affecting only players within a small range of frame rates. Fix their problem and you introduce another bug for players in a different set of frame rates. And on and on it goes. It's like trying to debug an entire set of interdependent games.

Seems to me the first thing you do is fix the frame rate problem, but then again, I may just be misunderstanding the situation.

i still fail to understand how a game where the frame rate affects gameplay that drastically can have anything remotely approaching...i don't even know what the word is...appeal...statistics that are relevant to anybody not playing at that particular framerate?

wonky-ass grade-school design

Well it looks like they will not be offering refunds to anyone. Sorry EagleFan, but he says you need to trade it with someone who wants the game:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1088546

Oh and the good news is that if anyone was waiting for the physical copy, it is now available for the fair price of $49.99. So let's see, Oblivion comes out on Monday at the same price. This is going to be a freakin' tough decision.

Is elmerlee one of us? His subtle, backhanded compliments are brilliant.

Oddly enough, oblivion will be where the world is before I consider spending a red cent on this game.

No problemo. I'm just through purchasing Matrix games unless they have glowing reviews from many many people I trust.

Edit: I just realized you were addressing the other EF, but my comment stands ;)

Dola -

I tried to post a message over there commenting on the refund policy, and I can't reply to a thread or start a thread over there. Are other people having problems posting on Matrix's board right now, or have they banned me in some way for my few comments?

donkeydong12 reports no problems posting

For some reason this made me laugh more than just about anything else in this thread. I guess it was the image of EF walking the streets trying to find someone foolish enough to want the game. :D

I was just able to do a fast reply, but my post reply and new thread buttons aren't working. I fast replied to a non-related thread since that was my only chance for the Matrix people to see my post.

maybe they can do an on site at your friends house

What is going on over at Matrix, playing hard ball like this?
They must know they screwed everyone who bought the game.
The bad PR could hurt them for years.

What do you mean? People are loving the ability to create classic rosters and uniforms, and sometimes be able to create plays for the POS (or is it "in the PDS"). It has to be true, I read it over there. Some people are actually happy with their purchase. Now if you want to actually play a game where you field kicks, and have penalties marked off correctly, well you'll just have to wait for Vic and Eric to evolve from board moderators to developers. It's clear that this game is based on evolution, because there is not a shred of intelligent design to be found.

it's on now, beotch

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Winter
Matrix Elite Guard





Posts: 744
Joined: 11/23/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: online quote:

this game clearly does not deliver on previously promised features

I've heard this twice now. Advertised features (and feature sets) not in the game.

What features were not delievered? Yes, there are bugs with the existing feature set that I'm addressing, but as far as I know, the featureset, as advertised, is there.

I disagree
I think god told Daivd which football rules to include.
It is all based on faith, do not attempt to use reason.

I tried to channel Knute Rockne and Pop Warner using my Ouija Board to get a ruling on this, and here was their response:

A-W-9-moon-Yes-N-2-Good Bye

Are you sure that was Knute and Pop? That sounds like something Ronald Reagan would say.

Must have got the Gipper, close.

ah

that makes sense

eagle is 2-2 in getting threads locked over there.

The first feature not delivered would be that it was advertised as a football simulation. From my understanding it's impossible to accurately simulate ANY known league.

Come on, a refund?

MF may be crap, but it's not crap because it's spectacularly buggy, just spectacularly crap, right up there with this: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/driving/b...ml?sid=6086528

Anyone who thought the arcade/customizability/league/career/stats features of the game could possibly be any good is either one of the three delusional fan boys on the MF board, or the type of person who picks up Battlecruiser 3000 and thinks "hmmm this looks great!"

One of these days, a publisher is going to get a real kick up the arse when it's hit with a serious class action law suit, not by the blowhards that go into fora on release day and claim they're going to do it, but when a smart lawyer realizes that a rich holding company would make a nice target for a shakedown, and that day isn't far off.

But, IMHO, Matrix doesn't deserve to be slammed for not giving refunds, no one gives them. Usually any mention of such talk would be slapped down by fanboys, but alas, the MF ones are too busy trying to figure out how to cover the tight end, or why some field goals are worth 4 points, and Bubba Wheels dropped it like it was his two-headed baby. So there's none of the usual "you can't make comparisons to a car" , "wait until the next patch" or "it runs perfectly on my PC, you need to defragment your hard drive" circular arguements to defend the game, but surely that doesn't make it more a candidate for refund than most games within 2 weeks of release.

Again, Bee, you just have to customize the rules of your league to how the game plays on your system.

I heard if you can get your framerate to be exactly 30.1285, you get a pretty good recreation of Danny White as a punter for the Memphis Southmen of the WFL.

Really have to take everything here with as much a grain of salt as those things said over on the MF board. So many here are as pre-disposed to hate the game as they hate its creator that if and when the game is finally patched to be half-way decent it won't matter.

BTW, I haven't 'dropped' it yet, just waiting to see if it will become 'half-way decent.' Big difference.

I give them credit for supporting the game through these first couple of weeks after release, but I wonder what happens when sales dry up, most customers have moved on to other games, and there is still a lot of work to do to finish the game.

That will be the real test of support for the game, both for Matrix and the developer.

Actually, the other EF got the other thread locked. ;)

We are each 1 for 1.

I couldn't figure out where this general forum was they kept talking about.

It is NOT true that no other developers give refunds. I've gotten refunds on two different text sims that I've purchased in the last 2 years. I've also gotten a refund on a non-text sim from an independant developer.

Dola (or maybe not) -

I have continued to purchase games from the companies that gave a refund on horribly buggy products because of their customer support. If they took Matrix's (and most bigger developer's policy) of not giving refunds, I would have stopped buying from those companies as well.

The no refunds policy would have better legs to stand on if they had a demo out where people could test the game first before buying it.

The policy is wrong since there is no demo.. and people should continue to stay away until there is a demo for people to see for themselves, instead of punishing the folks that have bought the game believing it would be as promised or advertised.

Also, people, don't forget that tonight is Daivd's developer chat at the Matrix website.

What are the odds that it starts on time?

My guess is that it turns into a computer game version of one of Bush's "Town Hall" meetings.

Question one: "Mr. Winters, I just want to congratulate you on this wonderful game you've given us"

DW: "Why thank you, non-FOFC troll. What is the question you have for me?"

Q1: "How can I help you make this perfect game even better?"

Yeah, what gets me about this whole situation is that you are purchasing this game blindly. There are currently no reviews for the game and no demo. You would think with the reputation of Matrix that it would be a decent game.

What bothers me even more is that they thought this game was worth $40 at the point where it had "gone gold". I have a hard time believing that Erik didn't see any of the issues that everyone is seeing now. In fact, they have even said they knew of a number of bugs, that the customers had come across, themselves. I'm sorry, but that just sounds shady.

The only way I will purchase anything from Matrix is if I know the developer has a good track record. Shaun Sullivan seems to be the only person that I know of as a developer and I will trust anything he puts out there. I don't think you can go by any reputation that Matrix had built for themselves over the years. And you know what, it actually not David's fault, because Matrix doesn't want to the do the right thing in this case. They just want to prove to themselves that they didn't make a mistake.

I hope he has a lot of Irish customers.
Could be fun.

Three indies, probably a fraction the size of Matrix, don't make a trend, they are notable exceptions. I've returned a game to Best Buy, that doesn't mean that their non-refund policy is a myth, just that there are exceptions.


Then you too are most probably an exception. Either that, or Matrix, along with almost every publisher, are running a business model which is losing them money.

I have to ask, what did you expect when you bought the game? It's a version 1.0 from a single developer which overran by several years it's target release, and making a demo was deemed either impossible (by the developer and his hillarious description that the game is "too open source") or too time consuming (the publisher.) There's enough warning signs alone, even without being aware of this thread, and others, which were another sign that this game was a grave risk to buy. In future, if a game developers doesn't understand what open source means, then treat it as a warning a siren to hold off purchasing until it's been reviewed ;)

I think you should be able to get your money back, for this game and for all software, but it's not going to happen while so many people are in a rush to give their money away for the promise of games. The best chance you have is to make some form of stink which Matrix deal with by giving a refund.

Hmmmm...if I were EagleFan, I would delete it from my hard drive and send the game to be reviewed at Gamespot. Then trade back for the game and send it to another place to be reviewed.

Just wanted to add and to clarify:

I was one of the retards that purchased the game after listening on how great the game would be. I'm not going into details but this is perhaps the worst simulation of football I've ever played. I was very upset that I paid 40 bucks for it. I then began researching the Matrix website for a refund policy and found a statement claiming a 14 day refund policy.

After a little aruging with the customer service, I did receive a full refund.

Just wanted people to know it is possible.

A Maximum Football success story! See folks, your dreams can come true, too.

After reading this, I had to check it out for myself and damn....you are right. Here is the link to the return policy. Why would they lie about something like this?
https://www.digitalriver.com/dr/cs/e...=10342&pn=1#q1

No takers yet. Came close with one drunk bum on the street but he thought I said Maxim Football and thought it was a football game using the Maxim cover babes. Once he heard Maximum Football he just pointed at me and laughed (I don't get it ;) ).

Wow. They must be checking out the site, because they changed that link quick. It now shows that all "sales are final".

and it didn't used to? you didn't take a screenshot? quick...someone grab the google cached version of that page!

Very disappointing.

wow. way to piss me off Matrix by pansying out and changing your return policy in response to a scandal involving a poor game released by you.

wow. just wow.

you have a screenie Antmeister. I think you should post it over there. Blast the motherfuckers. Not that they don't have a right to change their return policy whenever they want, but that is REALLY weak IMO. And an "all sales are final" policy is a surefire way to lose me as a customer.