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Galaril 08-26-2022 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3375798)
Too many Dems would be on that list.


Alot more Rs.

bob 08-26-2022 12:36 PM

Sounds like FOFC should have applied for PPP loans. We could have all been paid for posting during work.

Edward64 08-26-2022 12:46 PM

I didn't know SS did these investigations. Don't know how good they are.

A special task force (FBI + IRS?) dedicated to hunting and prosecuting them will probably pay for itself.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/26/polit...nds/index.html
Quote:

“Since 2020, the Secret Service has seized over $1.4 billion in fraudulently obtained funds and assisted in returning approximately $2.3 billion to state unemployment insurance programs,” the agency said Friday, noting it had launched nearly 4,000 investigations.

David Smith, assistant director of the US Secret Service Office of Investigations, said by aiding in the return of nearly $2.3 billion in stolen funds over the last 30 months, the agency has demonstrated “a clear and firm commitment to the vitality of American businesses across the country.”
Quote:

In March 2021, a year after passage of the $2 trillion economic aid legislation, the CARES Act, federal investigators identified more than half a billion dollars in fraud and charged 474 people with crimes related to theft of money from Covid-19 relief programs.
Quote:

Earlier this month, President Joe Biden signed into law two bipartisan bills to address fraudulent criminal acts committed under pandemic relief programs. Both laws extend the time period prosecutors have to prosecute individuals who committed fraud through the Paycheck Protection Program or Covid-19 Economic Injury Disaster Loan program, extending the statute of limitations for criminal and civil enforcement against a borrower to 10 years.

kingfc22 08-26-2022 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril (Post 3375860)
Alot more Rs.


1 Dem is equal to 100 R’s doing it so I agree not worth going down that road.

sterlingice 08-26-2022 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3375867)
Sounds like FOFC should have applied for PPP loans. We could have all been paid for posting during work.


And we could have gotten that aircraft carrier, dammit!

SI

molson 08-26-2022 01:59 PM

I'm about 16 years out of law school now and still have $40k in loans left (started with about $125k combined from undergrad and law school), so, definitely a nice little present.

I was never able to nail down the public service forgiveness requirements even though I've always worked in public service - it made more sense because of various life reasons to pay a ton back in some years in a few lump payments, and then pay nothing at all in certain other years when I was paid ahead and no payment was required. And I was able to get a few public service grants through my school during my career. Fortunately my interest rates were locked in under 3% way back, so, it made sense to focus on other things some years.

And with undergrad and law school debt all consolidated, it would probably be impossible at this point to untie all that for the many people in the same boat if they distinguished between those types of loans. Plus I've had 4 or 5 different loan servicers over the years, and those companies suck at maintaining records, and a bunch have probably gone of business.

With the infinite number of loan and life/career situations people have, trying to target anything a certain way would have really difficult. Though I do think it's kind of hilarious there's hard income cutoffs at $125k individual and $250k household. A dollar too much in your income could cost you $10k or $20k. But I still get the simple approach. You're never going to please everyone. And it was a specific promise Biden made that he had to keep. Unpausing payments and interest without doing this at a minimum would have been a disaster. Doing both together with several months notice for everyone to reset and figure out their own path forward makes a lot of sense. Though I still wonder if I'm going to be on the phone with my current loan servicer for hours in January trying to get shit to go through.

RainMaker 08-26-2022 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3375851)
Scammers certainly benefitted. It is estimated that 1.8 millions loan were fraudulent. I'm guessing that's a low number.

But don't worry, we have 50 people working on getting those scammers prosecuted.

Thanks Democrats and Republicans. This is why I'm voting 3rd party this fall.


Come on.

Senate GOP blocks Democratic oversight bill for small-business aid | The Hill

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN23M2XD

RainMaker 08-26-2022 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3375867)
Sounds like FOFC should have applied for PPP loans. We could have all been paid for posting during work.


No doubt. Like I knew there was a lot of fraud but was a bit taken back by how brazen it was in recent days. You have podcasts with like 50 listeners taking out half million dollar loans.

PilotMan 08-26-2022 06:44 PM

Campaign fundraising emails are the absolute worst. There's more than enough cringe on both sides to go around. I donate regularly to a couple PACs and our local committee, I've donated to a couple other candidates as well, but I now get like 10 to 15 emails a day. A fucking day. And they all sell the doom and gloom and are full of emotional pleas. I guess this works on some people. It keeps those tribal emotions high and gives you a sense that you're all that's standing in the way of complete and total anarchy or fascism or totalitarian communism.

{edit: horribly underestimated.....24 so far today. More to come I'm sure.}

PilotMan 08-26-2022 07:06 PM

My Dearest Mother,
I heard the good news today from Senator Grassley and Senator Cruz and many voices more: The Lord be praised, President Biden is starting a new army, 87,000 strong, and all armed, to work for the IRS. They shall burst into homes and knock down doors and wreak Biden’s personal vengeance on the middle class, and every one shall have an AR-15. My dream is coming true. I am rushing to enlist; I am leaving the farm in your hands until my return from service in this glorious cause. I love our home, but a hatred for the American taxpayer surges through me like a strong wind, and I must go. Please tend to the cows until I come home again.

From

https://wapo.st/3wz0CTz

Paywall removed

Atocep 08-28-2022 04:46 PM

How Biden Set a Record for Most Federal Court Appointments Since JFK


Quote:

As of August 8, 2022, exactly 566 days into Biden's tenure, the Senate had confirmed a record-setting 75 judges nominated by Biden to federal courts, according to a tally from the Pew Research Center.

That's more than Donald Trump, Barack Obama and George W. Bush had confirmed by this point in their presidencies as well as other presidents after JFK who remains the record holder for speedy nominations at this point in their tenure with 102. The overall number of Biden judicial nominees confirmed by the Senate stood at 78 as of August 26, according to UScourts.gov. That includes appeals and district court judges, along with one Supreme Court justice.

PilotMan 08-29-2022 01:07 PM

Lots of R talking points about how pandemic policies were completely wrong, and some have even gone as far to say they made everything worse. Pointing out that the policies didn't do what the lawmakers said they would, and that as a result, the economy and people died. It's a convenient talking point and one that resembles the arguments that blame Obama for the 2009 losses from the Great Recession.

Where is the definitive proof that they didn't work. Show me the scientific studies that prove they were a waste? The right answer is you can't. Not scientifically. R's don't really care about the scientific method in the world of 'my feelings are strong and therefore correct.' So as long as they believe that things would have been different it's good enough to argue in the court of public opinion.

We have plenty of studies prior to the implementation that show the projections of what could have happened, and then we have the data to show what did happen. We can take the data that we after after the fact, and apply it to the models from before to get a best guess, but even that is a bridge, far, far too far for the right. Instead, we have the brilliant scientist Joe Rogan simply saying...Vote Republican.

Edward64 08-29-2022 02:28 PM

Muqtada al-Sadr is in the news for quitting politics (he's done that before) and his supporters have stormed the "palace" where politicians meet. About 12 dead and many more injured.

His party got the most votes in the election months ago, but apparently not enough to get the presidency. His foe is the Iranian backed group. I had thought he was pro-Iran at one time but apparently that has changed.

Beats me how this will play out. I'm thinking enemy of my enemy means we kinda support al-Sadr as a strong foil against Iran.

There's about 2,500 US troops still in Iraq

cuervo72 08-29-2022 02:35 PM

Of course a lot of things that were tried may not have worked as well as intended because people were intentionally not doing them. It's like saying a teacher's lesson plan was bad because a student didn't do homework, didn't study, and didn't go to class and then didn't learn anything.

Ksyrup 08-29-2022 02:40 PM

They're doing with Covid what they did with Jan 6 and other things - once some time passes, they re-write history and talk about it in ways that will allow their supporters to remember it differently. Or they'll harp on NYC as if it applied to every county in the country.

I think this is a pretty good article that goes beyond Covid:

People in Republican Counties Have Higher Death Rates Than Those in Democratic Counties - Scientific American

Edward64 08-30-2022 09:59 AM

I like Biden taking the offensive.

538 has him currently at 42.4%. His low was 37.9% in 2H of July so he's done pretty well in the past 6 weeks.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/29/polit...hia/index.html
Quote:

President Joe Biden will travel to Philadelphia on Thursday for a primetime speech on “the continued battle for the soul of the nation” in front of Independence Hall, the White House said Monday.

The speech will come a week after the President returned to the campaign trail with a fiery speech in which he offered one of his sharpest rebukes of Republicans who have stuck to the credo of his predecessor, labeling it “semi-fascism” and predicting it has gone too far for most of the country. NBC News was first to report on the Philadelphia speech.

In that speech last week, Biden test-ran the message he is expected to tout aggressively for Democrats this fall. It also showed how his attacks on Trump, and Republicans who have remained loyal to him, have grown distinctly sharper as November’s midterm elections approach.

“What we’re seeing now is either the beginning or the death knell of an extreme MAGA philosophy,” Biden told a group of Democratic donors at a private home in Maryland ahead of the rally.
:
In a speech in Wilkes-Barre on Tuesday, Biden will also drive home a familiar criticism he has leveled at Trump and those around him: that they cannot pretend to support law enforcement while threatening the FBI and supporting those who stormed the Capitol on January 6, 2021, a senior administration official told CNN.

Biden will also devote a significant portion of his speech in Wilkes-Barre to pushing for an assault weapons ban, viewing it as a “defining” and “powerful issue that has broad bipartisan support,” the official said.

albionmoonlight 08-30-2022 10:13 AM

As a political strategy, I think that it makes sense. The Glen Younkin playbook works for GOP pols if they can pull it off--be palatable enough to MAGA to get them to come out for you while putting enough distance between yourself and MAGA to keep non-MAGA conservatives on board.

By coming out hard anti-MAGA, President Biden is making it harder for GOP pols to walk that tightrope.

Atocep 08-30-2022 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3376096)
As a political strategy, I think that it makes sense. The Glen Younkin playbook works for GOP pols if they can pull it off--be palatable enough to MAGA to get them to come out for you while putting enough distance between yourself and MAGA to keep non-MAGA conservatives on board.

By coming out hard anti-MAGA, President Biden is making it harder for GOP pols to walk that tightrope.


Dems in the special elections and congressional campaigns have created the playbook and its not shocking at all that its exactly what progressives have been trying to get the rest of the party on board with. They need to attack the GOP candidates on their positions and don't let the GOP candidates define themselves to voters. Make it clear that anyone GOP right now is MAGA, they're anti abortion, they're anti-social security, they're anti-universal healthcare, and they're anti-democracy. Just continue to paint the entire GOP with one brush because those in swing states are trying to be thread the needle on being just MAGA enough to keep the base but moderate to be electable in the general.

JPhillips 08-30-2022 02:29 PM

I think Dems should run a three-prong campaign.

1 The GOP is nuts. (Dobbs, cutting Social Security, guns, the election, from Jersey etc. whatever works for the particular candidate)

2 Look at all we've done. (IRA, guns, climate, student debt, etc.)

3 But there's more to do if we keep the House and add 2 senators (codify Roe, insulin prices, child tax credit, etc.)

It's a long shot to retain or expand the House and Senate, but Dems finally have a message and potentially an answer to what do I get if I vote team D.

RainMaker 08-30-2022 04:28 PM

I would just use the Fetterman approach. Stop being defensive and make the election about what you want it to be about.

Fetterman decided that he would go after Oz for being from New Jersey. He's been relentless on it and has Oz on his heels. He isn't wishy-washy on his positions. Heck, he even called for Biden to legalize marijuana. It's not complicated when your side holds the more popular positions.

Biden has been doing this lately and I think it's great. He called all the politicians out who complained about the student loan forgiveness for their hypocrisy. He finally called them fascists for acting like fascists. The last couple weeks it has been Republicans playing defense and complaining (something Dems would constantly be in the position of doing).

PilotMan 08-30-2022 04:41 PM

Holy Shit! Rainmaker was moderately satisfied with something. Pin this post to the top.

stevew 08-30-2022 07:02 PM

They should just let Fetterman subtweet in a few other races at this point. He can probably win Ohio while he’s at it.

Atocep 08-30-2022 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3376109)
I would just use the Fetterman approach. Stop being defensive and make the election about what you want it to be about.

Fetterman decided that he would go after Oz for being from New Jersey. He's been relentless on it and has Oz on his heels. He isn't wishy-washy on his positions. Heck, he even called for Biden to legalize marijuana. It's not complicated when your side holds the more popular positions.

Biden has been doing this lately and I think it's great. He called all the politicians out who complained about the student loan forgiveness for their hypocrisy. He finally called them fascists for acting like fascists. The last couple weeks it has been Republicans playing defense and complaining (something Dems would constantly be in the position of doing).


They're getting so close to realizing their policies aren't popular.


flere-imsaho 08-31-2022 08:01 AM

I'm not convinced even Ranked Choice and Independent Redistricting turns Idaho, ME2, & Utah blue. Everything else I can kind of see.

Sweed 08-31-2022 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3376121)
They're getting so close to realizing their policies aren't popular.



I'm embarrassed to be from Iowa. I never thought I would say that. Growing up I thought people around me showed common sense, some empathy, took a lot of pride in the schools here, etc. etc. Were we on the conservative side? Sure, but we did have (D) senators from time to time. Our almost always (R) governor represented everyone. There was compromise and sharing of ideas that helped all.

Today? It's a shit show. We have the longest serving senator in the country in Grassley. With his reputation I thought he could have stood up to this bullshit when it first started. But in reality I think he knew, like McCain, he would be thrown away. So he tows the line like all of the other sheep. He could have been another Cheney, IE another voice of reason but, he chose not to. I would like to think he knows better but after the last few years I'm not so sure. At best he's another Graham.

In any case it is sickening to listen to people talk that you have known your whole life and had some respect for. The things that come out of their mouths :banghead: I've always been an independent and voted for who I thought would do the best job. That hasn't been true for six(?) years now.

I liked Biden finally standing up and calling out the MAGA supporting R's. I like the general way the D's are going on the offensive. I hope they can continue with a united front and don't fall back into the mode where the progressives and moderates argue amongst themselves. There is a more important fight out there that needs to be won.

sterlingice 08-31-2022 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3376111)
Holy Shit! Rainmaker was moderately satisfied with something. Pin this post to the top.


Fetterman appears to be a very gifted politician and one of the bigger rising stars for the Democrats. Doesn't seem to be crazy to say

SI

Swaggs 08-31-2022 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho (Post 3376140)
I'm not convinced even Ranked Choice and Independent Redistricting turns Idaho, ME2, & Utah blue. Everything else I can kind of see.


Surprised to see Tennessee blue and North Carolina not, as well.

Qwikshot 08-31-2022 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 3376143)
Fetterman appears to be a very gifted politician and one of the bigger rising stars for the Democrats. Doesn't seem to be crazy to say

SI


I'm voting for him...

Lathum 08-31-2022 09:56 AM

Whomever thought this was a good idea should be fired and never work in politics again. How is Oz so bad at this?

Oz campaign again mocks Fetterman’s health in Pennsylvania Senate race | US politics | The Guardian

JPhillips 08-31-2022 07:12 PM

lol

Sarah Palin lost a special election to a Dem. The countdown to fraud accusations begins now.

kingfc22 08-31-2022 07:35 PM

Has America finally had enough of the fascist MAGA GOP?

First time in 50 years a Dem wins in Alaska.

Edward64 08-31-2022 07:40 PM

I'm not sure what to think. Either she/UN are chickensh*t for releasing this report on her last day, or this was the only way it would be released (e.g. she takes the hit for it).

Regardless, nothing will come of it. Short term at least.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/31/asia/...ntl/index.html
Quote:

Against China’s wishes, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet on Wednesday released a much-anticipated report on China’s treatment of Uyghur and other Muslim minority peoples in its northwestern Xinjiang region.

The report concludes that “serious human rights violations have been committed” in the region, which it attributes to Beijing’s “application of counter-terrorism and counter-‘extremism’ strategies” targeting Uyghur and other mainly Muslim communities.
Quote:

The report was released at the end of Bachelet’s final day in office.

GrantDawg 08-31-2022 07:46 PM

It was because the people that voted for the second place Republican didn't vote for her or the Democrat as their second choice. Ranked choice win for the Dems.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

JPhillips 08-31-2022 07:58 PM

The split between two GOP candidates started this and now Palin is saying Begich should drop out for the Nov. race.

larrymcg421 08-31-2022 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfc22 (Post 3376196)
Has America finally had enough of the fascist MAGA GOP?

First time in 50 years a Dem wins in Alaska.


Maybe for the House seat, but Begich was Senator from 2009-15

Atocep 08-31-2022 09:01 PM

Just a few weeks ago, before Roe was overturned,I was reading boards where conservatives were fantasizing about a super majority in the house and controlling the Senate.

GrantDawg 08-31-2022 09:22 PM

They are the dog that caught the car.

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GrantDawg 09-01-2022 11:41 AM

President Biden with a prime time speech tonight. He is going full attack-mode on MAGA's subversion of democracy. Am I the only one getting a little apprehensive about this?

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PilotMan 09-01-2022 12:26 PM

I mean, it's quite literally, what the left has been calling for. A calling out of the actual attacks on democracy. The Dems are putting a flag in the sand prior to the election and setting the terms on which the campaign will be determined. They are trying to cleave the extremists from those campaigning for their support. At some point the R's either duck away from MAGA, like they are trying to do now, or embrace it. The ones who are ducking are getting their feet held to the fire. Is is the best overall tactic? Unsure, it could backfire, but if it does, it's a further indicator that the country is really not the one I want to be in for the long term. And at least, it's an aggressive stance, and one that the left can point to and say they fought against.

JPhillips 09-01-2022 12:28 PM

The GOP is so used to Dems retreating when they complain that they don't know what to do when Dems just stay on the offensive. The best campaign for the GOP is to focus on the economy. The more they whine about being beaten up, the worse it is for them. As a long-time Dem, I can assure them that complaining about getting beaten up is not attractive to persuadable voters.

albionmoonlight 09-01-2022 12:49 PM

If you aren't going to fight against fascists, then what's the point?

GrantDawg 09-01-2022 01:14 PM

I'm not saying to not fight. I'm saying he is not equipped to do this well.

RainMaker 09-01-2022 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3376247)
President Biden with a prime time speech tonight. He is going full attack-mode on MAGA's subversion of democracy. Am I the only one getting a little apprehensive about this?


What else is he supposed to do?

GrantDawg 09-01-2022 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3376265)
What else is he supposed to do?

Democrats need a brawler by proxy. Uncle Joe is not a brawler. Usually this is the VP's job, but I don't know if Kamala has the charisma to pull it off either. But Joe slinging dirt is not his natural state.

albionmoonlight 09-01-2022 05:01 PM

But that might be the point. Slinging dirt is just bothsides. The message here has to be to and about moderate Republicans who can still be saved.

sovereignstar v2 09-01-2022 07:15 PM

Nailing it

RainMaker 09-01-2022 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3376274)
Democrats need a brawler by proxy. Uncle Joe is not a brawler. Usually this is the VP's job, but I don't know if Kamala has the charisma to pull it off either. But Joe slinging dirt is not his natural state.


I'm actually starting to think they might charge Trump after this speech.

bronconick 09-01-2022 07:42 PM

As the GOP overreacts to everything Biden says tonight, remember that the essence of bullying is that they can dish it out, but they can't take it.

GrantDawg 09-01-2022 07:47 PM

CNN attacking the fact he had Marines behind him and the Marine Band played.

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GrantDawg 09-01-2022 07:51 PM

CBS News as well. Seems the major media are all suggesting this looked like a military threat to the MAGA crowd.

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Lathum 09-01-2022 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3376291)
CBS News as well. Seems the major media are all suggesting this looked like a military threat to the MAGA crowd.

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as it should be. They wanna cosplay about a civil war.

Atocep 09-01-2022 08:02 PM

Trump spent 4 years catering to the minority in this country while attacking everyone else so I think it's funny that every time a democrat president speaks the GOP keys on divisiveness.

JPhillips 09-01-2022 09:00 PM

This will play to MAGA, but it's hard to convince suburban voters that Biden is the real threat after 1/6. The GOP literally tried to overthrow the government already.

RainMaker 09-02-2022 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3376291)
CBS News as well. Seems the major media are all suggesting this looked like a military threat to the MAGA crowd.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


These outlets are filled with pea brained morons.

whomario 09-02-2022 02:28 AM

The use of military as background is at most a direct response to De Santis, no ? Have people seen the theater that guy puts up when he does his stage productions basking about his discriminating, smearing and othering ?

Or maybe this:



(As he smears 4 democratic congresswomen)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3376291)
CBS News as well. Seems the major media are all suggesting this looked like a military threat to the MAGA crowd.


The mentioned CNN has a new owner who is ultra conservative and CBS shift to both sideism should be common knowledge after that Infamous production meeting and hiring people like Mulvaney. Others continue to publish insane Op Eds that are text book examples of creating false balance.

Why Fox News-loving billionaire John Malone wants to remake CNN - Vox

Why did CBS News hire Mick Mulvaney? | US news | The Guardian

Overall it has been worrying how US media has failed time and time again to consistently call a spade a spade, so to speak. (And lest anyone thinks i just want to just thrash the US: Similar shit is happening or emerging in Europe of course). For all their pathos (democracy dies in darkness, eh ?) and occasional semi-shocked opinion section outbursts of "oh shit, there's a problem, isn't there ?" the majority is still most of the time treating crazy gravediggers of democracy like regular politicians and refusing to dig to deep for fear of their bottom line. Like the questions getting answered via election is wether you a bit more or less taxes or some Shit. They publish some mildly outraged Opinion Pieces but the actual news coverage still covers this shit like (and i mean more than content but the way it's presented and structured as well as framed via headlines etc) it's just some difference of opinion/priorities that differentiate the crazy parade from those actually willing to uphold principles of democracy. Why yes, of course they have been "critical" of Trumpism, Maga and it's offshoots. But that's the lowest bar possible considering how crazy it was and is.

How the press covered the last four years of Trump - Columbia Journalism Review

How The Media Failed In Covering Donald Trump : NPR

Which is a problem considering the media landscape (and i say media in it's technical definition, including non-traditional outlets) is skewed as it is. The Right is simply more active here and uninhibited by 'their' Party getting the sweats everytime anybody seems 'radical' or goes on/gets interviewed on a 'radical' blog/podcast/online channel.

Why the Media Is Worse for Biden Than Trump

Press “bothsideism” has failed Biden, and America

The way things are going a Republican majority controll of congress and presidency might well mean that for a looooong time (because the ongoing efforts of gerrymandering make it ever more likely for Rs to win) there will be a concerted effort to further shift wealth to the top and seriously gut civil liberties for many millions of americans. And yes, seeing the crazy zealots already (!) elected or on the ballot to positions directly charged with overseeing elections: There is an immediate danger that the next presidential election, never mind local ones, will not be free and fair.

At Least 120 Republican Nominees Deny The Results Of The 2020 Election | FiveThirtyEight

BTW : De Santis just launched a full on smear campaign against Christs running mate based on a rumour by the premier anti trans activist group on social media (who are spearheading the mob descending on childrens hospitals) whose source article does not even say what they claim. How is that not reported everywhere major? (or is it ?) And good luck to the idiots thinking that leopard will be content eating those faces.

https://popular.info/p/desantis-prom...-smear-against

whomario 09-02-2022 02:54 AM

Will people please accept that "unity" by offering the proverbial olive branch will not happen without major concessions of democratic processes and Institutions, human and civil rights, quality of life (incl basic health) of current and future generations ?

I have no idea what a actively and purposefully confrontational approach will yield but considering how blatantly obvious the aims of the GOP, Maga et al have been, how little willingness to change (even to 'only' the more subtle ways of before) has been shown while the democrats largely tiptoed the line tried to reach compromise ... Might as well go for broke unless you are just willing to turn back the clock decades for a lot of areas. And Biden still is trying hard to offer that branch by distinguishing between what in reality has become an increasingly thin gap between "regular" Republicans and those he condems.

cuervo72 09-02-2022 07:47 AM

"Unity" for that side is just "accept our reality and our terms."

Ksyrup 09-02-2022 07:52 AM

While it's BS, it absolutely makes sense from their side to paint this as a politically motivated speech as if this is a "politics as usual" time in our country and it's as if he's railing against the GOP after nominating Bob frickin Dole or something. This is just another way for them to normalize themselves as "like for like.".

Of course, left out there is that he clearly was targeting "utra-MAGA" and the response has been, "this is an attack on 50% of the country." Not really, dude. And if it is, we're truly fucked.

albionmoonlight 09-02-2022 07:59 AM

President Biden was very clear that he was talking about MAGA specifically and not the GOP more broadly. But of course the GOP has to try and make it that he was attacking all conservatives.

The parties are currently fighting for the support of the moderate-right leaning voters who don't want to replace the United States with a white nationalist Christian dictatorship but who also support lower taxes and are suspicious of how quickly we are accepting things like the Trans-rights agenda and the like.

President Biden, of course, wants to say "Hey, I disagree with y'all on policy, but that's just the normal back and forth, and I need y'all to join with other Americans to fight fascism right now so we can go back to just disagreeing about taxes." The GOP wants to say "Biden is attacking you, so you need to remain with us to fight back against him."

Not sure how they are receiving the message.

NobodyHere 09-02-2022 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72 (Post 3376302)
"Unity" for that side is just "accept our reality and our terms."


Which side defines it differently?

flere-imsaho 09-02-2022 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3376274)
Uncle Joe is not a brawler.


I dunno, I feel that was explicitly his role in the 2008 and 2012 campaigns, especially when you look at Obama's personality. Malarkey!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3376295)
This will play to MAGA, but it's hard to convince suburban voters that Biden is the real threat after 1/6.


Suburban voters of both parties want normalcy above all else. And the ones you could convince to vote for Trump to get rid of Roe are now back in play.

Toddzilla 09-02-2022 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3376306)
Which side defines it differently?

That's a great point. Anyone with a shred of self-awareness should feel the same.

Ksyrup 09-02-2022 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho (Post 3376307)
I dunno, I feel that was explicitly
Suburban voters of both parties want normalcy above all else. And the ones you could convince to vote for Trump to get rid of Roe are now back in play.


You really think so? From my experience, the people who would vote Trump solely for Roe reasons are those who also buy into the broader culture war agenda and see the left taking us into chaos of no gender, demonizing white Christians, etc. If you did a venn diagram, I feel like it's a pretty small subset of people who are totally against abortion and now that the SC has fixed that, they can vote Democrat.

JPhillips 09-02-2022 08:23 AM

Are MAGAs fascists, is pretty poor ground for the GOP to choose to fight.

sterlingice 09-02-2022 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3376303)
While it's BS, it absolutely makes sense from their side to paint this as a politically motivated speech as if this is a "politics as usual" time in our country and it's as if he's railing against the GOP after nominating Bob frickin Dole or something. This is just another way for them to normalize themselves as "like for like.".

Of course, left out there is that he clearly was targeting "utra-MAGA" and the response has been, "this is an attack on 50% of the country." Not really, dude. And if it is, we're truly fucked.


Even NPR this morning was talking about how this was a political speech so the media still clearly hasn't figured out how to deal with Trump and the potential slide to fascism.

SI

flere-imsaho 09-02-2022 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3376312)
You really think so? From my experience, the people who would vote Trump solely for Roe reasons are those who also buy into the broader culture war agenda and see the left taking us into chaos of no gender, demonizing white Christians, etc. If you did a venn diagram, I feel like it's a pretty small subset of people who are totally against abortion and now that the SC has fixed that, they can vote Democrat.


These are fair points. I should be clear that I'm not necessarily talking about huge numbers of people, but as we've seen, you don't necessarily need huge numbers of people to swing states in the EC.

You actually saw some of this in 2018 in suburban/exurban Chicago voting, where Democrats consolidated strength in districts they already held (e.g. 10th district) and flipped two districts (6th & 14th) that had been in GOP hands for 40+ and 30+ years, respectively, defeating multi-term incumbents.

Both the 6th and the 14th remain in Democratic hands and Cook labels them currently as Lean and Likely Democratic for 2022.

I have a lot of Republican neighbors and over the past few years a number have certainly articulated why they abandoned Trump and the GOP, but for me it all comes back to wanting some semblance of normalcy.

flere-imsaho 09-02-2022 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario (Post 3376300)
The use of military as background is at most a direct response to De Santis, no ?


Well, and also Trump, as you point out.

I mean, this is a guy (Trump) who badgered the Armed Forces into doing a full-on military parade in DC that they didn't want to do (because, for one, it's an enormous waste of money).

whomario 09-02-2022 12:44 PM



(He is 65, so might have been thinking about retiring anyway but i doubt he does it this suddenly for no reason)

bronconick 09-02-2022 01:04 PM

CNN is going to end up being the new OAN because they're going to lose the small following they have now and MAGAs aren't leaving FNC

Flasch186 09-02-2022 01:33 PM

crazy turn of media events there.

JPhillips 09-02-2022 02:33 PM

Harwood said he was notified a month ago that he would be let go today. I think it's still for being seen as anti-Trump, but it wasn't specifically these comments.

It does seem clear, though, that the new investors are demanding a rightward turn for CNN. Where the space is between Fox and OAN and Newsmax and Lindell and Truth, etc isn't clear to me.

RainMaker 09-02-2022 02:34 PM

I guess financially it makes sense. The audience for cable news is pretty old and older folks skew conservative or whatever it is they're doing these days.

Ksyrup 09-02-2022 02:52 PM

We went over to my wife's parents house on a Saturday afternoon, and they had Fox News on. What possible reason is there for watching any 24 hour news/opinion channel in the middle of a Saturday? For chrissakes, watch a Hallmark movie or something! How can anyone want to listen to that kind of stuff, even if you agree with it, for hours on end?

whomario 09-02-2022 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3376347)
Harwood said he was notified a month ago that he would be let go today. I think it's still for being seen as anti-Trump, but it wasn't specifically these comments.



Actually wasn't my impression either, though in hindsight i can certainly see that the tweet posted makes that implicit allegation. I actually only posted it as it contained both his comment and the link to his farewell. Originally only posted the picture but that was like super huge and i was too lazy to edit on the phone ... I saw it more as him using his airtime (was a live statement on air) one last time to speak out in defiance over the shift.

GrantDawg 09-02-2022 04:14 PM

All I know is CNN was the news network I generally went to, but I will not any longer. I really don't get who they think their viewers are going to be.

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PilotMan 09-03-2022 11:00 AM

I just want to know if the MAGA are finally going to stop threatening and actually do something now.

Biden called them out, and once again, they are calling for Civil War. If they would just do something we could label them American ISIS, call them a terrorist group and then, they might feel attacked for real, with the full force of the democracy and the country on their backs coming for them.

I mean....MTG has now fully gone on record as calling Biden, Hitler....Yep...He is now Hitler.

Same shit different day. Fuck that bitch.

Thomkal 09-03-2022 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3376433)
I just want to know if the MAGA are finally going to stop threatening and actually do something now.

Biden called them out, and once again, they are calling for Civil War. If they would just do something we could label them American ISIS, call them a terrorist group and then, they might feel attacked for real, with the full force of the democracy and the country on their backs coming for them.

I mean....MTG has now fully gone on record as calling Biden, Hitler....Yep...He is now Hitler.

Same shit different day. Fuck that bitch.



Well at CPac they were already calling themselves domestic terrorists

Atocep 09-03-2022 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3376433)
I just want to know if the MAGA are finally going to stop threatening and actually do something now.

Biden called them out, and once again, they are calling for Civil War. If they would just do something we could label them American ISIS, call them a terrorist group and then, they might feel attacked for real, with the full force of the democracy and the country on their backs coming for them.

I mean....MTG has now fully gone on record as calling Biden, Hitler....Yep...He is now Hitler.

Same shit different day. Fuck that bitch.



I'm really tired of it. Trump actually tried to deploy troops against US Citizens, constantly attacked Dems in statements and speeches, led a failed coup attempt, and so on and so on and so on.

Biden, in one speech, calls out a subset of the republican party for their bullshit and he's compared to hitler, is threatening US citizens, wants to start a civil war, ect.

At this point I'm with you. I'm tired of the talk. Either do something or just fucking stop it. It's tiresome.

Lathum 09-05-2022 04:37 PM

cue the faux outrage



Ksyrup 09-05-2022 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3376458)

Biden, in one speech, calls out a subset of the republican party for their bullshit


The tack I would have taken with the way the GOP responded would have been to challenge passive Trump voters (those who vote GOP because of tribe and for general positions (taxes, etc.)) on whether they agree with their own party leaders and used their own very specific words against them, asking whether those are the things they believe in.

We have to do something to force people to draw a line in the sand. You don't even have to intimate their positions or be partisan - many in the GOP clearly spell out their intentions, in non-ambiguous terms. USE IT! Instead of just attacking/calling names, give specific examples. Call out specific people. Put them on the defensive, having to explain indefensible statements.

JPhillips 09-06-2022 09:16 PM

Leonard Leo, the guy that ran the Federalist Society and flooded the court with right-wing justices, and others looking to help the court end democracy.


PilotMan 09-06-2022 09:25 PM

ugh, that all these extremely extreme points of view, that have been considered highly extremist for decades, are now being pushed into mainstream thought, and have a less than 0 chance to see increasing support across courts, and public opinion makes me nauseous. It's almost like McVeigh and Nichols have finally become martyrs for a cause the world now believes in. Ask the right if that's what they support and I bet you they have record high marks across the ideology now.

Atocep 09-06-2022 09:42 PM


Edward64 09-07-2022 07:57 AM

Had to look it up. FWIW, don't think Oz is incorrect.

Do second cousins have a high risk of having a child with a disability? | The Tech Interactive
Quote:

Most likely not. In most cases second cousins are far enough apart that there is only a little increased risk.

Of course this doesn’t mean there is no risk. Everyone who has children has the risk of having a child with a disability.

The chance that a baby is born with a birth defect or disability is between 2-3%. So, if a hundred people have babies, we would expect that 2 or 3 to be born with some sort of problem. Which of course means that 97 or 98 are fine.

At 3.5%, the risk is slightly higher for second cousins. Still, 96 or 97 out of a hundred babies are born without any major problems.

What this all means is that while there is increased risk, it doesn’t really qualify as a “high chance.” Even first cousins at 5% aren’t that big of a risk.

But then there is always this ...


sovereignstar v2 09-07-2022 08:18 AM


PilotMan 09-07-2022 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3376714)
Had to look it up. FWIW, don't think Oz is incorrect.

Do second cousins have a high risk of having a child with a disability? | The Tech Interactive


But then there is always this ...




There are some really funny stories out there about couples that have found out they were related thanks to 23 and me and Ancestry. From same and opposite sex siblings where they were ok with staying together to a 4th cousin pairing who started vomiting on site, thought she was now totally scandalous and was going to divorce her husband without pause.

Ksyrup 09-07-2022 09:16 AM

I find it odd/disturbing that it's the scientific issues around "how close is too close for inbreeding purposes" that seem to be the sole determining factor on whether that is a good or desirable outcome.

JPhillips 09-07-2022 11:50 AM

TX federal judge rules that a business doesn't have to cover PreP in their insurance due to religious reasons. I guess getting AIDS is now the Christian thing to do.

Atocep 09-07-2022 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3376723)
I find it odd/disturbing that it's the scientific issues around "how close is too close for inbreeding purposes" that seem to be the sole determining factor on whether that is a good or desirable outcome.


It's possible to be correct but still wrong.

GrantDawg 09-07-2022 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3376723)
I find it odd/disturbing that it's the scientific issues around "how close is too close for inbreeding purposes" that seem to be the sole determining factor on whether that is a good or desirable outcome.

I find the social aspect interesting. If someone turns out to be your fourth cousin, then why would that be a socially stigmatizing? Seems like to me absent of the "inbreeding" issue, a fourth cousin is as much a stranger as anyone else. I couldn't name a fourth cousin, nor would we likely have much of a family relation connection. First and second cousins, sure. Grand parents, great grand parents, aunts and uncles, that is close relations that is icky. But if you are far enough out that you can't even recall relatives in common? Why is that even a big deal?

Ksyrup 09-07-2022 01:15 PM

Well, to be clear, Oz specifically said "more than 1st cousin" which makes 2nd cousin fair game. Again, apparently solely based on the fact that it might not screw things up genetically. But that's not the only consideration.

I suppose it depends on the circumstances, but I know extended families that are pretty close, so even 3rd/4th cousin might be awkward to say the least. A whole branch of your family that lives 2 time zones away that you've never met? Maybe not an issue.

Ksyrup 09-07-2022 01:18 PM

When reading this, I also had in the back of my mind an actual petri dish scenario that is playing out in Indiana with the fertility doctor who inseminated upwards of 100 women with his own sperm - the majority of whom live within 25 miles of each other - and some of the resulting babies having their own children and finding it necessary to do background checks on other kids that their kids want to date. It's not just what society thinks of you, but people actually thrown into these circumstances overwhelmingly are repulsed by it.

sabotai 09-07-2022 02:27 PM

I'll bet there's lots of people married to their 4th cousin and don't know it. Most people don't move far from where they grew up, and 4th cousin means you share one pair of great-great-great grandparents. I doubt most people can even name a single great-great-great grand parent.

People have hundreds, if not thousands, of 4th cousins, depending on how many kids each generation had (and those generations in the great grandparent to great-great-great grandparent range had quite a few).

Ksyrup 09-07-2022 03:42 PM

Why are we focusing on 4th cousins when Oz never went beyond 3rd?

GrantDawg 09-07-2022 04:17 PM

Pilotman's comment on someone freaking out when they found out they were dating their fourth cousin. I have also seen/heard people freak out about any kindship in different media. What Dr. Oz said was stupid.

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JPhillips 09-12-2022 08:54 PM

Lindsey Graham is going to introduce a national ban on abortion after some unknown amount of weeks. I get what he's trying to do, find a middle grouund, but I don't see any cutoff that will both appease the anti folks and get the pro-abortion majority to let things lie.

Atocep 09-12-2022 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3377385)
Lindsey Graham is going to introduce a national ban on abortion after some unknown amount of weeks. I get what he's trying to do, find a middle grouund, but I don't see any cutoff that will both appease the anti folks and get the pro-abortion majority to let things lie.


The GOP is desperately trying to rebrand as being the party of abortion limits rather than the party of abortion bans.

Edward64 09-12-2022 10:37 PM

I really like this idea Joe.

Did you budget any funding for this moonshot? Seriously, a great idea. Just provide a lot of funding (if not already), otherwise it's just empty words.

Biden makes a passionate plea: 'Beating cancer is something we can do together' | CNN Politics
Quote:

President Joe Biden sought to deliver a unifying speech in Boston on Monday focused on his “Moonshot” initiative to reduce cancer deaths in the United States – a stop that’s part of a ramped up travel schedule highlighting his administration’s accomplishments ahead of the midterm elections.

Biden told an audience at Boston’s John F. Kennedy Library and Museum that his goal is to cut cancer death rates by at least 50% in the next 25 years. The President also said he wants to “create a more supportive experience for patients and families.”

JPhillips 09-13-2022 04:10 PM

I think Masters is the most dangerous GOP candidate with an actual chance.

Quote:

An interviewer asked Arizona Republican Senate candidate Blake Masters to pick a “subversive thinker” whom people should know more about.

Masters gave it some thought and came up with a risky response for someone running for elected office.

He picked the Unabomber.

“I’ll probably get in trouble for saying this,” Masters responded. “How about, like, Theodore Kaczynski?”

Lathum 09-13-2022 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3377403)
I really like this idea Joe.

Did you budget any funding for this moonshot? Seriously, a great idea. Just provide a lot of funding (if not already), otherwise it's just empty words.

Biden makes a passionate plea: 'Beating cancer is something we can do together' | CNN Politics


It is really smart. The right blindly opposes everything he does despite it being beneficial for their constituents. They gonna become the pro cancer party?


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