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How little do things change over the years? I'm guessing that Biden and Palin could sub in the names of this year's candidates and use these same opening statements from 32 years ago for the most part....................
The First VP Debate: Dole-Mondale, 10-15-76 Quote:
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That's great, MBBF :D
SI |
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From Wiki: Barack Obama Member of the Illinois Senate from the 13th district In office January 8, 1997 – November 4, 2004 Junior Senator from Illinois Incumbent Assumed office January 4, 2005 Sarah Palin 11th Governor of Alaska Incumbent Assumed office December 4, 2006 I have to disagree with them having equally limited experience at a level that counts. Sorry, but, Mayor of a town, with only about 5,500 people, and a city council member are hardly in the same league as a state senator and U.S. senator. Lots of politicians and non politicians are well spoken, so I don't get the point. |
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Actually, Biden is talking about a case they heard. The case was United States v. Morrison and a woman who was raped tried to sue her attackers under the Violence against Women Act. SCOTUS said that Congress did not have the authority under the commerce clause or the 14th amendment to pass that law. It's one of the most important recent cases that deals with federalism and gives a clear understanding of the type of justices Biden would likely appoint if he was in that position. What also impresses me is that he understands why the case was overruled and didn't try to demagogue it by saying something like, "The Supreme Court obviously didn't care about violence against women." |
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1. Governor and U.S. senator are pretty similar in stature as far as I'm concern. Certainly, no one comes even close to saying that Obama or Palin have the experience necessary for President. If they do, they're likely partisan at best. 2. I'm sorry. I should have said articulate instead of well-spoken........ Quote:
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+1 for you. Didn't realize they'd actually heard the case - the way he made it sound was like they refused to hear it on the grounds they didn't have jurisdiction. Nice though. |
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I'll take Obama's 10 plus years as a state senator and US senator over Palin's almost 2 years as governor. Obama has a viable person in Biden, that if Obama could not finish his term, Biden would be a competent replacement. Palin however...I wouldn't trust her to be able to take over a pie eating contest. I guess I just don't see the problem with being articulate or well spoken. People have a problem with how Bush talks and say he sounds stupid. So apparently, being able to form coherent sentences and not sound like an idiot at that level is important to people. Is the Obama/Biden ticket the perfect ticket in my eyes? Nope. The problem is, the McCain/Palin ticket is far far less perfect with Palin on there. |
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What experience is necessary to be President? |
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If we knew the exact measure, this thread would be 1 1/2 pages long. :D I'm of the opinion that 'experience' is highly overrated, fully knowing that my stance in that instance helps out the candidate I do not favor. I prefer common sense when selecting a candidate. My personal opinion is that McCain is a lot more of a straight shooter than Obama and is opposed to higher taxes and spending, which is much more in line with my thinking than Obama. I also don't mind a president with a mean streak, so that doesn't bother me with McCain nearly as much as it does others. |
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Thanks for reminding me of his comments on that. I think a may have to start actually actively campaigning against him. |
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That's a pretty significant event. We're a long way from the days with the common wisdom that whoever won 2 of MI, PA & OH won this election.... |
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I'm trying to follow your logic here. What if Obama can finish his term? That's where the top of the Democratic ticket is starting from. |
FiveThirtyEight.com's current state of the race (when he's not fighting with RCP - see the website for more):
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He makes some good points against RCP, but did back down a bit on saying they were deliberately biased. They still should explain why they're randomly including some polls (like the ARG polls) after excluding them for so long.
As for a 269-269 tie, I wonder what would happen if McCain won the popular vote but there was a tie in the electoral college. Now that would be an interesting situation. |
But I can already see the arguments being made by the Republicans. They'll say that the electoral vote is most important, but when it is tied, why not go to the popular vote.
Of course, the counterargument is that the Constitution set up rules for just this scenario and specified that it be decided by the House. |
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The problems that Palin brings to the table if McCain is elected and dies in office or has a stroke and can't fulfill his duties as President is what I have a severe problem with. The logic is picking either the Douche or the Shit Sandwich. Douche being Obama/Biden, Shit Sandwich being McCain/Palin. Picking the lesser of two evils. Damned if you do, damned if you don't and a host of other cliches that I can't think of at the moment. Right now, the Douche is looking a lot better than the Shit Sandwich. |
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Awesome. |
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We DO know the exact measure and it's really fucking short. :) "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States." I don't see anything about experience. |
Wow, I hadn't seen the stuff with Katie Couric and Palin specifically about what magazines she has read or court cases stuff and I can only say Holy fuck! As an american that is really fucked up. If McCain get's elected and he croaks and she takes over I am moving my family to Canada.
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I don't even think that one is an argument (except in theory). There are pretty clear rules on what happens in the event of a tie, and while the losing side doesn't have to like them & could bitch until some very warm places became very cold, it would very much have to live with them barring the discovery of some loophole I've never heard of. |
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That's Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich, thank you very much ;) SI |
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I guess there's "life experience" in there. |
This might have already been mentioned up the thread somewhere but if so I failed to notice it ... reports now say that McCain has pulled advertising & staff out of Michigan, effectively conceding it to Obama.
He's reportedly investigating opening a new front in Maine, as well as reallocating the Michigan resources to other states including Florida. |
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I fail to see the point of working more in Maine. Maine splits its EVs by district. He'll win the rural 2nd district and I don't see how he wins the suburban (Maine has no real urban area) 1st district. And it's 4 EVs. |
I doubt McCain's people expected to have to defend North Carolina and Virginia the way they have. With Obama pulling away in both Michigan and Pennsylvania, McCain almost had to pick one or the other to focus on as his last stand in terms of actually flipping a major Kerry state.
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Tell McCain, I just work here ;) |
McCain really needs to focus on a Bush States plan IMO. I don't think he's got a pickup opportunity worth spending resources on. He'll lose IA and NM, but if he holds everything else he can still win. Without a major turning point winning is a longshot at this point, but IMO defense is his best option.
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He won't return my calls.... :rant: |
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Does executive experience make a good president? The results! « Ramblings of a pseudo intellectual Clearly it is a blogger, not a news source, but it is an interesting discussion. Quote:
I am jumping in here late, and sure to get flamed, but... Are these statements true? Do all of McCain's (and Obama's) numbers match up? Can McCain afford to continue the troop surge and cut everyone's taxes? Can Obama afford his social programs and cut taxes for "85% of working families." Do you really care if Obama does not cut taxes for those making over $250,000? Maybe I am buying into the hype of the Obama campaign, but cutting taxes for those making under $250,000 sounds rather reasonable to me. |
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ssssh...if he wants to waste his $$ there who are we to blame him? |
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That is fucking hilarious. |
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Totally awesome. I now no longer run the risk of having the first thing I hear in the morning a McCain campaign ad. It has happened too often of late. No me gusta. |
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i laughed. i cried. i wet myself. |
RE: McCain conceding Michigan.
Why do that publically? I don't get it. I see scaling down, and maybe some blogger will notice, but why in god's name be so official about it and concede a negative headline today? |
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If and when this guy establishes a credible track record of his own in a presidential election, then his criticism of RCP will carry deserved weight. As of now, all this guy has done is to constantly change his weighting and methodology throughout the election cycle. By his own admission, he is an enthusiastic Obama supporter. At this point in time, given their 2004 performance, RCP is without peer in providing the most accurate electoral college and popular vote projections. If fivethirtyeight.com outperforms RCP on their final projection this year, then they will rightfully move into the forefront in this relatively uncontested field. We'll have to wait and see what happens with the final projections on election day. |
John McCain said Thursday that Barack Obama’s poll numbers are rising as the economy seems to sink "because life isn’t fair.”
I guess this was "What the hell can he say that won't make him look bad", but this seems incredibly whiny. |
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Remember, every single US celebrity moved here in November 2004. |
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:lol: and on an unrelated note...campbell brown? i'd totally hit that |
So here we go :)
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lol - Palin to Biden: "Nice to meet you. Can I call you Joe?"
LOL |
What's with the "Can I call you Joe?"?
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Mac Howard, is the VP debate being shown live in Austrailia or are you watching on the web? Just curious.
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Palin: Hi, nice to meet you.
Biden: Nice to meet you. Palin: Can I call you "Joe"? Biden: Go fuck yourself. Rocky start. |
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You mean the ones that said they would, but didn't? |
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ML - he didn't say that! no way! I didn't hear that
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haha - Palin is trying to credit McCain for the bipartisan effort succeeding
-- except it didn't succeed, and his own party has said he was a useless distraction |
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Susan Sarandon has said she would move to Italy or Canada if McCain wins. So, she's going to move a country (I know Canada has elections coming up) that has conservative (and might I say, more conservative than McCain) governments? |
If you're watching the approval meter, note how it drops every time anyone makes a partisan statement and rises when they express bypartisanship.
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Live on CNN and Fox. |
LOL...."Neither one of you answer that question about what you would do as Vice President.".
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Wow. |
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I'd like to be Average Joe Sixpack. ;)
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10 minutes in and I already want to punch both of them in the face.
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No arguments here. |
Biden off to a good start, showing a strong respect for McCain the MAN, while ripping his POLICIES apart.
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God, This is so awesome. This is so fucking awesome.
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Palin was killing it for the first 15 minutes but she didn't look good on that last exchange, with the phony "I'm gonna talk to the American people" routine and then getting cut off.
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Eek, Risky Joe.. (Palin brings up that Obama "failed to vote" to cut taxes 94 times, and Biden fires back.. counting by Palin's terms, McCain's voted to raise taxes 400 times)
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I don't know. They both seem pretty aggressive towards each other. I don't see a message of "change" here so far. Both are spewing the he did this, but not showing what they did. Lot of style, lot of political crap, but no substance. |
Biden almost made the CNN popularity chart thingee go off the screen there for a second.
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I've got you beat. I could have done with ease 10 minutes before the debate started. |
Biden with a nice bridge to nowhere line.
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I just want to hear Palin once say,
I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your political work, there, Jon. |
This woman may make me move from voting 3rd party to voting for Obama. I can't stand so much about Palin.
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I'd love to hear the moderator say "Nice two-minute rant against your opponent, but we're not going anywhere until you answer the question I asked you."
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Hm, actually, she basically just did. And Palin won't answer.
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Palin is trying to rope-a-dope here. five weeks of debate prep installed talking points into her, with a link to few facts, they're hoping that the homestyle delivery will hide that.
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That was genius. McCain's health care plan is pure scary. $5000 wouldn't even begin to replace my works insurance plan, and I know my health coverage would be dropped if taxes were put on it. That's about as dumb as I've ever heard. His promise to "deregulate insurance like he deregulated the banks" doesn't sound great either. Insurers are scam artist as is, can you imagine what they'd be like with less regulations? Would they ever pay for anything while taking even more of your money? |
Note how the approval went up when Biden said "I agree with the governor"? While partisan people will applaud criticism the independents hate it.
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Love this comment from the liveblog I'm reading:
Jonathan Kay: "The corruption and the greed on Wall Street" -- words from Palin's lips. What the hell has happened to the *Republican* party? Isn't this supposed to be the party of fatcats? |
Palin's really being evasive at first blush, no?
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Palin can't be doing this the whole debate. She totally dodges the questions and spews out talking points. The moderator, or Biden, need to start jumping on her, even moreso then they are.
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Anyone else suspect that Biden's "I'm not sure whether McCain supports this obscure proposal" was a trap, to force the moderator into quizzing Palin on whether she knew what his stance was?
(She didn't seem to, but she skipped over it smoothly.) |
This is hilarious.
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She's playing to her strength here. I think most average joes are very much for increasing our energy independence.
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Not just you, but others as well, but what liveblogs are others following throughout this. |
Yeah. Palin's completely avoiding the questions now, and just spewing out talking points. Ugh-lee.
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Was that her I saw hiding behind the podium? |
Palin just mangled her first soundbite. Got "man" and "climate change" on the wrong side of that "attribute to".
She's still trailing Biden in that department though. |
Here's the two I'm following
Debates | Election 2008 | Canada | News | National Post (may be full) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/oliv...08.sarahpalin2 |
"I don't want to talk about the causes of climate change...." I bet you don't.
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Joe is seeming restrained and is doing a pretty even handed job.
She looks so woefully unprepared, that no amount of debate prep in the world would've helped her. Seriously. A mile wide and an inch deep. |
First robotic response...the one on climate change.
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Those pair of lines just scared me. I hadn't heard about the taxing of health coverage. That's just not what I want at all. SI |
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I think she was told to be charming. Did you see the little winks as she makes points? The little head nod? Don't you want the person in line to the presidency to be a cutesy cheerleader? |
Biden is killing it here on climate change and energy according to CNN's snaking line.
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Clean coal is...bad news. You know how much water that requires? I know why the Dems support it, but meh.
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Women on the CNN line were really not happy with Palin during the energy talk.
Now its talk about teh gays. Seems the uncommitted Ohio folks are okay with it. |
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I thought both have come off decent so far. I'm a Joe fan so I'm liking his performance. Tho he isn't staring directly at the camera all the time. He also is looking a bit squinty today. Also, I'm liking the moderator. She had me at the line where she said "neither of you answered the question" SI |
"Tolerant."
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I think that Ifill is doing a very evenhanded job, agreed. |
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"as long as you wear this special mark..." |
Geez, Palin forgot to mention praying away the gay!
Palin's church hopes to 'pray away the gay' :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Barack Obama |
Palin's debate prep, as told by Looney Tunes...
 "Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha - THRUST!" (quarter staff bounces off log, smacking him in the face and bending his bill.) |
woo hoo! both are against gay marriage! now i'm on board with this shit.
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