Worf was okay but can't get over a Klingon with a hair "perm".

How or why Maggie would want to have a baby in this new brutal world is senseless.

i always knew it wasn't going to be Maggie. The series spent a lot of time on Hershel's farm, and Maggie is the last remaining person from *that* storyline. I have a feeling she's going to make it all the way to the end of the show.

Is there ever an end to this show? Looks like the series doesn't have an end goal - just people who are trying to survive for one more day. Getting a bit old and most of the people I know have given it up. I'm not there just yet but probably will be after this season. Think the cow will have been well-milked by that point.

No ending that's ever been stated. The whole concept of the comic book was the story about the zombie apocalypse that never ends...

It's been an issue that the show has had to deal with for a long time now. I've mentioned many, many times dating back as early as season 2 or so when folks complain about the show not moving the plot forward. This is the plot. These characters, the world they live in, how it changes them, how they try to live/survive in, that's the plot.

As for the notion that the show is shedding a ton of fans:

"“The Walking Dead” premiere drew a horde of 17 million Americans on Sunday night, and a massive 8.4 rating in the advertiser-coveted 18-49 demographic. That’s a little shy of a record, which is still held by the Season 5 premiere (8.7 in the demo, 17.29 million viewers).

Compared to the Season 6 opener, that’s 2.37 million total viewers and an entire ratings point in the 18-49 demo higher, equal to about 1.28 million people in that age range. Presumably no one wanted to run the risk of being spoiled by social media. (The episode did draw a record-setting 8.7 rating in the 25-54 demographic — maybe some of the younger viewers aged up.)

It’s rare for a show in its seventh season to climb back up, much less for a show on a cable network to draw more than double the demo rating of a show like “Empire,” the current broadcast champ by that metric. Even Chris Hardwic’sk after-show “The Talking Dead” drew an absurd 3.7 demo rating and 7.6 million viewers over its 90-minute episode, in which the cast and crew of “The Walking Dead” worked through their grief in a rainsoaked cemetery in front of a large live audience. That’s bigger than every show on broadcast and cable as well."

The numbers don't support it. It's still massive (like my Johnson).

People have been claiming this show "jumped the shark", again, going all the way back to season 2 when they were at the farm - the zombie-in-the-well episode was a particular low point - but the show continues on and continues on strongly.

I still really enjoy it. I hated the season finale, and wasn't happy with a few episodes last season (most seasons), but, for me, the show still hits more than it misses and sometimes the hits are just amazing. The show has given me some of my favorite moments in television and I have watched a fair amount of quality TV.

It was a brutal episode, but hopefully it is setting a good season in motion. Carol to the rescue?

Well it's a show so rest assured it certainly has an "end". It's a different medium, not one that can go on forever as audiences want closure. Closure in this case is the characters either finding a cure or finding a permanent and safe new way of life. With that having been said, I think at least Maggie and Carl are the two most likely to be there in the "end", ie series finale. I would love to see Rick there in the end, that is, survives to live with Carl happily ever after since I'm a father too, but I have a feeling he's gonna die in the finale episode. Carol I believe is another who'll make it till the end.

Yeah, at some point the show will end. I just don't know if, at this point, anyone knows what that end will look like, so it's not like they are currently progressing down any one particular path.

I imagine, they will have plenty of warning as to when the show will end and then spend that last season or seasons creating an arc that builds towards some kind of ending.

I'll be happy to let the show end as soon as Carl gets a haircut.

At this point one zombie doesn't scare anyone. And also at this point a horde of zombies doesn't scare anyone either (tv character or audience). In the season premiere Rick took on a legion of zombies without a weapon. We're at the point, ever since the Governor seasons, where the human threats need to get more gruesome to keep the audience's attention. We went from the Governor to the ppl who ate other humans to now Negan. So while the theme of this season is "We're just getting started", I give the series another 3 yrs because plot-wise it's just going to start repeating itself (or turn into snuff porn). It's main draw - zombies - is not the main draw anymore.

Also, it's not going to keep going on only for this reason:

Ppl are invested in the original characters, which at this point consists of Rick, Carl, Darryl, Maggie and Carol. Yes the show can keep introducing other characters, but there has to be some continuity from the show's beginning to its ultimate end. It's "how do *these* characters survive", not "how does humanity survive". But if the show keeps going on it's going to get to the point where the original characters are never in any danger of actually dying, which takes away from the tension. And if it keeps going on that these original characters eventually die off before the series finale it's not going to have the same effect since it'll be a bunch of ppl from season 7 or 8 that have only been around for a couple seasons who make it to the end. So yeah, 3 seasons, tops.

The only characters from the beginning I would expect to see around for the eventual finale would be Rick & Carl.

Give or take, around half the cast members currently known to us are dead in the source material by the time the war with Negan finally ends.

A big part of the "how long does it last" might be influenced simply by how they handle affairs with Negan. You could pretty much do 1.5 to 2.0 seasons with this storyline alone. There's a lot of ground that could be covered here, though I suspect they'll rush it up a bit & wrap it up at the end of the next half season (basically one full year / two half-seasons).

I am really excited by this season. This episode is what basically dictates all the future events to come and I just hope they don't stray too far from the source material. Maybe just enough to get through the slow parts, but not enough to where it doesn't make sense like they did with Michonne and the Governor.

And Rick gets a shampoo and wash. How can his hair stay so greasy?

I really like this series and think its got a lot of life yet ... Fear of the Walking Dead on the other hand doesn't have the right dynamics for me.

Yeah, we gave up on that one very early in season 2.

Quit midway thru Season 2. I just didn't like any of the characters, which basically leaves you trying to be entertained by scenarios you've basically seen before.

The prob with Fear was (or is) it's best suited to like a 4 episode miniseries which should be shown the month before TWD, as a way to get ppl into TWD mode. Show it in September when ppl just can't wait for the October start of TWD and ppl will salivate over it. Showing it after TWD is anticlimactic.

And the characters were written very badly, so yeah.

Yep, especially that Johnny Depp wannabe

Fear was really hard this season, but I really feel like they finally did something with it I cared about by the very end. So I'm optimistic that next season they really find their flooring and it stands on its own.

Nice episode, much less intense than season premiere. Enjoyed seeing Carol and Morgan again.

I've been reading the comic books (and hate knowing what will happen) and will be glad when the show catches up and goes off on its own path.

I agree. I really liked the episode. The actor playing King Ezekiel is absolutely fantastic. He did amazing job with a character that could be really hard to pull off.

I like what they are doing with Morgan, since he had become pretty tiresome.

And I thought some of the minor characters they introduced - Jerry, Ben, the dude who got punched - were all decent.

I'm a non-comic reader, so this is all theory:

From what I've tried to avoid but have surmised, KE will die. It seems they have spent juuuuust a tiny bit more time on showcasing the minor character (the tough guy, KE's goofy bodyguard and the young guy that Morgan was training) that these will be the next characters to eventually join the main group, most likely in a "joining forces" sort of way. While Negan might have the numbers, and more battle ready troops, Rick's posse plus the "tough guys" from the Kingdom just might be what's needed to take Negan's group down. The Hillside group didn't really produce any memorable/meaningful characters, but the Kingdom has the "comic relief" guy and the replacement for Abraham along with a potential "leader" type guy to replace Glenn. The episode wouldn't have spent those extra bits it did showing personality if it didn't intend to showcase them more in the future.

You underestimate Paul (aka Jesus).

Nice episode, enjoyed learning more about Dwight (and Daryl's resolve).

Ready to move the plot along though.

A necessary episode for storytelling reasons (assuming they stick to the source material of events), not particularly thrilling TV though.

Also, it dragged more noticeably to me (knowing the basics of the graphic novel story) than episodes like this usually do. I spent a lot more time than I'm usually conscious of sitting here thinking"yeah, yeah, I got that,move along"

To be honest though, in storytelling you can't think that just by showing some backstory for evil characters you magically endear them to the audience. He's still someone many ppl would love to see dead. Myself included.

This episode was very slow. I don't think it's necessary to spend whole episodes on just one plot line. Last week at the Kingdom made sense because it was introducing new characters.

Yeah. I felt it dragged a bit, too. They could have told the same story a bit tighter.


I don't think the episode was meant to really endear Dwight to the audience. It was as much about Dwight as it was about Negan and how he rules. There will likely be some consequences at some time.

They did a good job of wanting me to see Daryl give in with that effin song.

From a survival perspective, there was no upside to Darryl not pretending to want to join Negan's group. I thought that was silly for Darryl to continue to be so defiant. It didn't make me like/respect him more. He clearly wanted to escape - your odds of escaping are better when you've been let off the leash.

Going further though, even if Darryl were to escape it would only spell doom for Rick and the group. Negan would assume Darryl made it back to home base and would probably punish ppl of Rick's group one at a time until Darryl turned himself in.

We're walking on Easy Street
And it feels so sweet ...

UGH!!!

I would disagree. Sounds like Dwight could easily have been a Darryl type character previously, but he was broken by Negan. Something that you could just as easily see happening to Darryl if he goes down the wrong path. It shows just how powerful that Negan is.

I thought it humanized Dwight a lot and while he is still a bad guy, shows how everybody has taken different paths to get to where they are right now.

But here's the thing. You can humanize Negan all you want but it's still never going to endear him to the audience. Same with Dwight. You can't just show some tender moments and all of a sudden the audience will sympathize with him. Did you sympathize with that group of cannibals when they showed some backstory about about them?

Yeah I don't think the Dwight backstory is to endear him at all. I'll spoil tag it in case anybody doesn't want to see speculation but its not based on the comics or info on teh internets. Just based on what I've seen on the show so far.

Regarding your speculation:

That actually makes a lot of sense.

I think so as well

Well yeah... They kind of hit us over the head (pun intended) with that foreshadowing. I actually thought it was overdone, although I really liked the episode.

A little painful watching the team go through that. Ready for a comeback and more action.

FWIW, I don't understand why they couldn't have taken out Negan and his chiefs in this episode (esp with that RPG/rocket launcher!). Daryl would have been a goner but for the greater good.

That's what makes this so unbelievable for me. Take out Negan and his whole group will disintegrate into little bands vying for control. And it's almost like Negan is begging for someone to take him out (silhouetted alone against the fence, handing Rick the bat, mocking an agitated, gun-toting Carl, etc).

C'mon, man ...

We kind of know that based on what we saw in last week's episode with Dwight/Darryl and all of that. There's no reason to think that Rick or anyone else knows it.

As for as they know, The Saviors are a massive group of people with a lot of resources and weapons and are, apparently, incredibly well organized.

I don't find the whole thing all that unbelievable, especially considering it's been less than a week since Abraham and Glenn were killed and the Alexandria folks don't have that many warriors left at the moment.

Sasha and Maggie are at Hilltop.

Darryl is captured.

Morgan and Carol are at the Kingdom.

That leaves you with Rick, Machionne, Rosita, Carl, Aaron, Eugene, Father Gabriel and the dregs of Alexandria. I don't fancy their odds of carrying off a successful ambush at the moment.

Jeffery Dean Morgan is simply killing it as Negan. He owns each and every scene he's in. It's been fantastic to watch.

Presumably The Saviors have taken everyone's guns - Alexandria, Hilltop and The Kingdom's. this puts everyone at a severe disadvantage as far as joining up and mounting a coup. All 3 factions combined might have the numbers but they just don't have the firepower now to attack.

Also, the show risks Negan being too "been there, done that." What allowed them to milk The Governor storyline for about 1-2 seasons was the gradual progression of showing his madness. It wasn't all craziness from the start. With Negan i can see it becoming (at least for me) "all right, I get it...he's the big bad guy). But Jeffrey dean Morgan is definitely killing it.

I don't think that's even presumed as far as Hilltop goes. IIRC we were told that outright last season when they were introduced. Remember Rick figuring out that they had severely limited firepower?

The Tara episode was a nice change of pace but kinda boring with a full episode of her. Hope this means Tara has a major part in the forthcoming showdown.

I have a feeling that trailer park cache of guns is going to play more of a role than Tara will. A four way alliance with Jesus, the Tiger guy, Rick's crew, and the trailer park women could be interesting.

Tara turned into a likeable character for me this episode. It'll be sad when she dies.

How much more boring can this get?

They don't always seem to have the pacing right with Negan. JDM is great but there's something ... off, at times. The scene with the harem tonight is an example.

I find myself saying the same thing while watching these episodes. And apparently we see characters who think the same way....Michonne, WTFisHerNameAgain, and Carl (who unfortunately reconsidered that stance when the situation actually arrived).

But then I have to suspend my disbelief by saying, at this point in the show's world, all we have left are people who value their own personal life more than anything else. More than their dignity, their values, and each other. We see Dwight, his wife, and most of Negan's crew....it does not appear that any of them genuinely "like" Negan. I mean, not even in a "oh he used to be a better guy but now he's crazy for our benefit" kind of way. Nope...he's somebody that has likely broken each and every one of them until they are left with the impression that the only way to continue existing is to serve Negan. And you get the impression that those inclined to revolt have already done so (and failed horribly).

I'm still not totally sold on the premise of having THAT many people serve you under such motivation. Nor for the amount of time it must have taken to get the Saviours to where they are now. But thats the best I have.

As a side point on last night's episode....I found the exchange where Carl (paraphrasing) tells Negan "if you were smart you'd kill us. But maybe you can't do it." And Negan's response "maybe you're right, maybe I can't." was possibly more telling than just about anything. As in, maybe the rules Negan talks about are preventing him from taking out a threat, which lets be honest, he should be focused on (perhaps because we know Rick's group so well).

I think flashbacks to Negan's pre-zombie and immediate post zombie life could be great tv if done right. It would great if he was a respected normal working guy or even a loser that nobody liked or listened to. I thought Michone's flashback added some depth to her character.

I didn't think the show would get me to care abut Dwight at all but I am actually becoming sympathetic and like others have said I don't find a lot of the Negan stuff particularly believable but the actor is really hitting a homerun with the character. He is 180 degrees different than the guy who played the governor.