A plot hole moment or two perhaps but all in all they found a way to get largely back to canon.

And they appear to be content to not rush the next big storyline, which is probably for the best.

Really strong episode to open up the second half of the season

I thoroughly enjoyed the two kids deaths, not something I ever expected to say.

They needed to kill Glenn, or not have that scene. After all the issues to end the first half of the season, the last thing we needed was more proof of the sheer invincibility of the main cast. Someone important really needs to die soon if they expect us to feel the tension they're trying to create by putting Rick and Glenn and Maggie in what appears to be serious danger.

I did also enjoy the opening, and Merritt Weaver continues to impress.

haven't watched since season 3 but did they kill a zombie, then lose a member to a zombie then have a tussle with outsiders?

You didn't get that feeling with Carl this episode?

That was definitely a major culling. Time to introduce new characters I guess? I loved the episdode though, considering how many zombies were around their walls for several episodes, this needed to happen eventually.

And don't worry, Negan is coming. Nobody in the main cast should feel too comfortable.

That was a very tense episode. Very tense.

I love that they did the rocket launcher right. In so many movies you see the rocket shoot through the air with the vapor trail behind it, but it doesn't really quite work that way. Things just tend to explode, like Negan's bikers.

Solid opening.

I had very mixed feelings about the episode. I didn't really know how to put my finger on it until I read this blog today.

And it wasn't so much the child deaths as much as it was the random timing of the kids breakdown and the fact that he was suddenly surrounded and not one person noticed? Then it happened again?

I thought that the epic hack and slash to dispatch the entire hoard was far beyond anything good. I've commented on the ease at which zombies are dispatched and now it's even easier. This group really shouldn't fear them any longer. Simply going into bezerker mode is good enough, and all the men can now do that so there's that.

Glen being saved from another certain death with multiple perfect head shots from assault rifles, in the dark, from range, and not getting even nicked just iced the cake. The storytelling can still be good, but this just seemed like mailing it in.

Weak. It was weak.

I read that io9 review as well and didn't agree with any of it. I don't think much of that Bricken guy as a reviewer of TV or a thinker. His post about how Deadpool will affect Marvel films was pretty facile.

That said, I did feel they were almost trolling the audience with the Glenn situation there.

I also would have liked to have seen at least some people die in the great zombie massacre. It would have been more believable that way.

The opening scene and the scene where Jesse and her kids died were fantastic. Super tense.

Interesting... I got the feeling they were getting tired at the end and things were about to change until the rest of the gang showed up. I think that's always been the real issue - not that the zombies were hard to kill, but how long can you last before you get tired/make a mental mistake/they surrounding you and you're trapped.


Yeah - agreed here. I saw that and didn't get how they didn't hit Glen.

I did a little bit of cheating and reading up on the comic book series. I think maybe they are setting us up.

I agree with you, I just finished that comic, and if they do it the way the comic is..holy hell..

I will say this much, we had a watch party and it was funny watching the group flip when the kid was chomped...

I know, I know, there's a million of these things ... but this is just too good :)

holy hell that's great Jon. :D :D :D

I can't get it out of my head!

CORAL! An EYE-PAD, CORAL!

I loved the biker scene. Pure awesomeness.

And, yeah, at this point, suspension of disbelief is tough with the incredible accuracy of the headshots saving Glen.

Still, I enjoyed the episode quite a bit.

Finally saw the episode and it thoroughly enjoyed it. Thought Glenn was a goner again but he has about 5 lives left.

The opening scene with the bikers was fantastic.

Richonne!

With about 45 minutes to digest tonight's episode, obviously there'll be one major thing talked about from it ... but for me the takeaway is that this might have been the strongest Carl episode to date.

They gave him some strong stuff to play without much dialogue for some of it, he hit a towering home run with it IMO.

Have to agree, he did a great job, all so subtle, but very powerful. Too bad it will be overshadowed by the new power couple in most conversations like you mentioned.

Overall a very good "catch your breath" kind of episode.

I bitch a lot about the show when they do dumb things so I feel like I should make sure to give them credit for the good episodes. Like you guys said above, I thought this was a solid Carl episode, and I'm very happy to see that eyepatch Carl isn't petulant, angry, or depressed (though any of that could probably have been justified). Deanna zombie worked nicely for me, and Rick and Daryl out on runs is something I could watch a whole lot of before it got old I think. Good episode.

Turns out Rick is the town slut.

How'd they process the film for the picture in the frame at the beginning of the episode? When they stole the truck and got the radio going, there's a radio station still running nearby?

Thought it was that CD they had in the car, no?

Digital camera and printer, I guess.

Yeah, Rick had a CD. Darryl was rolling his eyes when Rick put it in in the car.

I used to really like The Walking Dead. Gradually, the show seems to have become all about how to 'shock' the audience but I still liked it. But after this last episode, I wonder if I have turned the corner on this show and will stop watching very shortly.

This last episode was SO bad. Have they fired all the competent writers and replaced them with high school kids who took a single creative writing course and now think they can write screenplays? Even a high school kid should have known to have one of them drive the truck and the other drive the car. Head straight home convoy style and enjoy a truck load of food. But not on this show. Nope. Let's leave the car behind and go on some wacky adventure that leaves the truck at the bottom of a lake. And this wasn't even the stupidest plot point in the show. Let's tie a guy up, leave him on the side of the road.... and then find out he is magically on the roof of the truck as we are driving off road. Then have Daryl jump out and run around like a Benny Hill episode. And then have Rick jump out and fight zombies.

And, according to Carl, the rule is now that you can kill zombies that a) you didn't know when they were alive or b) that you loved when they were alive. But apparently not zombies that you knew but did not love. The writers go from plot device A to plot device B and get there in whatever way they think of first.

I think the writers are just trolling everyone trying to see just how stupid their scripts can be and still keep an audience. We will see how long they keep me.

Edited to add: One more thing that really bugged me. Well, there are many more... this is just one. Rick and Daryl chase the truck ON FOOT. And catch it because the truck has magically broken down. And then it is magically fixed when they get back in to drive away. Groan.

I don't take the show as seriously as some of you guys do... mindless entertainment and so I enjoy it quite a bit. I do find it humorous that this zombie apocalypse happened at least 5 years ago and they are driving current model year brand new Chryslers around. :)

Well, has the show really advanced in time much more than a year or two?

I don't take it too seriously either. All I ask is for it to entertain me. It has done that. Second favorite show to Game of Thrones.

Someone might quibble with the math at this link but
The Walking Dead TV Show Timeline - Walking Dead Wiki - Wikia

it looks like we're right around the 2 year mark.

Are we sure this series isn't filmed in England? :)

Hell, I'm British, so maybe I can get on next season.

Good episode, I like seeing another settlement with a different dynamic, seeing this group tonight felt better than anything about the Governor's group ever did as far as having potential for a decent storyline.

All I can say is, if they follow the comic book...fans aren't going to like what is coming up...I might even wince if done like the comics.

But this was an episode I kept waiting for something to happen, didn't expect what happened, but my favorite scene was when rick stood up, covered...turned and said..."What?"

Yup, it will suck.

"That prick's got nothing on you"

So, no idea how many Saviors we're going to see but I counted 17 dead. Dude on the bike makes #18, and at least 2 holding Carol+Maggie. Toss in a half dozen that were slaughtered by rocket launcher earlier, and Rick's team has to have dealt some pretty meaningful damage.

Given where we're at in the season, I'm guessing this isn't Saviors HQ, but rather an outpost? And that they've got enough people to cause major pain/losses for our fallen heroes?

That's my guess as well, without knowing anything about the comics or how close this lined up to things from the source.

I liked the episode, I mostly liked how they dealt with the gravity of the situation leading up to the attack. Even though we saw Negan's men in the rocket launcher scene enough to know that they are terrible people, it was still a big step to aggressively seek out and kill other people like this, and I felt they did a good enough job of conveying how big a deal this is for the group.

Some things didn't really have the impact they were supposed to for me. Basically all of the relationship stuff, Carol, Abraham, and uhh, the two lesbians who have names I'm sure but I don't care what they are. I don't feel any investment in any of those relationships, the show has really done nothing to build any of that up to something meaningful. Also, Father Gabriel's transition shouldn't have happened off screen. The fact that he's now willing, and capable of killing anything at all should be a huge deal. I liked his scenes in this episode, but we needed to see a little more of that change in progress, training... anything.. to make that really feel powerful.

But anyway, still a really solid episode overall.

Yeah I don't like all these couples, either. I realize humans are few and far between and people are horny, but I'm pretty much done with all these relationships.

I am rooting for Carl & Sophia.

Just got around to watching the last episode and surprised to see no comments.

Thought it was a good character episode for Carol and Maggie. Usually Carol is badass Carol doing what needs to be done, and while she once again does, I thought it was interesting to watch her struggle with it a little.

Carol is such a good character and Melissa McBride is clearly one of the best actresses on the show (or at least is being used in the best way to fit her ability), so a Carol centric episdoe like this one works very, very well for me.



So this is an issue for me. Here is my understanding of this: there is a brief scene where Carol is still visibly angry with Morgan for not killing the Wolves dude from the last half season, but didn't 'turn him in" for it. Then there is a montage of Carol baking cookies and a brief shot of her looking at/fiddling with a board where she is tracking the people she's killed so far.

Now in a life or death situation with Maggie, whose baby she appears to want to protect at all costs, killing anyone, even people who are directly trying to kill her, is openly agonizing to the point that she risks her life and Maggie's to try to avoid killing.

Carol is one of the best couple characters on the show, she has the most depth and has been the most well developed. This kind of a shift in her behavior is very interesting in terms of her development... but... did they actually show us enough of what she went through to bring about this shift?

What I mean is that, I can look at the stuff that happened in the past episodes and say "Oh, I guess that is what they were trying to tell me?" but at no time during the past few episodes did I look at anything they showed with Carol and think "uh-oh, Carol is seriously wavering on the things she's done in the zombie apocalypse, this is going to be a really big deal the next time she gets in trouble".

When they brush past a relationship with Abraham, fine, he's a side character who isn't fleshed out nearly as well as he could be, whatever, I don't really care. Carol, however, is the best thing about the show and I want them to get it right.


I dunno, to reiterate, I *really* enjoyed this episode. But, I feel like I could have enjoyed it 100 times more and it had the potential to be the best episode the show has ever done if they had spent a little more screen time making it clear what was going on in Carol's head leading up to this episode.

Carol's agonizing over shooting the redhead wasn't so much a shift in her approach generally, it was a specific situation due to the obvious similarities in the two women (and perhaps by extension then to the other Saviours). Her subsequent angst seems to be brought on by that rather than some greatly pre-existing condition.

I thought the episode was fantastic. I've loved the last two.

I agreed that Carol is one of the best characters, if not the best character, on the show. I strongly believe her character and the arc it has taken is one the most surprising in any TV series. Looking back from what she was to what she's become, you rarely see a middle aged actress get to have that kind of arc and depth. She's great.

I don't agree that you haven't seen her wavering. It's been happening. She wavered after she killed that little girl. She sat at the table with Tyrese, confessed to killing his girlfriend and that other guy, started crying, and slid the gun across the table almost asking for Tyrese to kill her.

At the end of the episode where she killed all of those Wolves, I remember her sitting down on the porch and looking very shaken by what happened and looking down at the "A" carved into the wood. Again, it seemed she was quite shaken and afraid that she was much more a "W" than an "A". I don't think she's ever been completely cold and totally cool with what she's had to do. It has always eaten at her. She's struggled with it. And, let's be honest, other than Rick she's probably had to do the coldest shit of anyone in the group.

I think a lot of what we saw in the episode was an act, but some of it wasn't. Maybe she saw some of herself in Paula in a way she never did with the people in Terminus (cannibals) or the Wolves (complete mad people). In those instances, killing really was the only option. She was alone with Terminus and the Wolves were crazy, there was no reasoning with them. Paula and her crew could be seen differently. There was an alternative path - letting them go and getting away - as opposed to just killing them.

I find her reaction to it all completely human and largely consistent with the character to date.

Rick, on the other hand, is pretty crazy and capable of pretty much anything with little remorse. A fascinating character to have as your lead hero/protagonist.

Yeah, it's kind of the nature of this kind of show. If it's just a constant slaughtering of zombies, that would get boring. So they end up coming into conflict with other people, some of whom they end up needing to kill.

Agree with this.

Carol, imho, has always seen her group as the "good guys". And I especially liked when Paula said to her "you aren't the good guys here Carol". It was always obvious with the governor, the wolves, Terminus, etc. that they were always justified in killing them before they killed us. But here....maybe the Rick army isn't really living by standards that make her comfortable. And perhaps Morgan rubbed off on her a bit and she's wondering where her humanity lies.

I do think she was setting them up with her hyperventilating and acting like she was scared. But I think as time went on she definitely identified with Paula and did not want to kill her if she could possibly avoid it. Likely more about maintaining her own morality than her affinity towards Paula....but still relevant to her imho. But that's what's great about episodes like that one. We can speculate about it and nobody is really wrong because Carol is such a great character, played by such a great actress in MM.

I also liked (in a sick sorta way) vicious Maggie. She was like a momma grizzly in that episode protecting her cub.

Fair enough, appreciate the detailed reply, and despite how much I wrote about that one idea, I did really love this episode.

PM - replying to your comment about catching up on the comic, I just hit that part too and yowza, that would be insane. A buddy of mine and I were talking and we feel they could be setting us up for something similar, but with a different character (much like they have done in the past with things - still do comic-ideas, but mix it those involved)

I totally get your reaction. I was thinking the exact same thing as I watched the episode unfold. It wasn't til I started to think about it later and reflect on some old episodes and the Paula connection, that it started to make more sense and seem less out of character or out of the blue.

I have to admit I did have many of the same thoughts you stated at first. I changed them a bit after reflectIng a bit on Carol's time with Morgan and some of the dialog (especially the line about them not being the good guys).

None of its wrong imho. Great episode in a series that doesn't often (but occasionally) deliver some solid reflection on the way the chaos of the new world affects people.

I think the last 4 episodes have been one of the stronger runs this show ever had. I still have some small quibbles though.

While they were on their face-stabbing spree, it bummed me out that the felt the need to include the one room where a guy seemed to have polaroid shots of all the people he killed. This feels like such an obvious - "we need to make it clear to the audience that these are BAD guys." I wish they had played it more straight, and maybe not have the 2 guards be the most collosal dicks in the world.

It's way more interesting if they can sell us a situation where they themselves, and us as viewers, can start to openly question some of their actions.

Like... if they break into a complex and stab a ton of people in their sleep, it's pretty damn interesting. They're bordering on doing absolutely anything even when the necessity of those actions is definitely up for debate. As the leader of hilltop said - you guys didn't want to work in exchange for food, but you're all-in on murdering a bunch of people? They never really gave that thought time to simmer.

Instead the writers make sure to provide them with pretty clear moral high ground even if they are definitely becoming more ruthless. It's just not as interesting to me. *shrug*

Pretty solid episode. Enjoyed it.

Talking Dead indicated that Abraham should have died in this episode? Glad they changed it some which implies other future deaths may not occur.