Is that messed up on purpose, ie daivd speak for 8675309

there's all kind of douchery all up in here

Maraudyr - funniest shit in 15 pages, at least.

I was really hoping that image would be a picture of someone with a bunch of boxes of MF strapped to himself.

If you could take Deion Sanders in Maximum Football knowing he would have the exact same career would you take him or would you take an unknown rookie?

Something that keeps me coming back

Ok, one last time

You are selling the game as version 2.0 and now you tell me that very little was actually done to it?
Yeah, I have heard of Vista... (and you wonder why people are rude to you.)

Using your example:
it would be like going on a Packers board every month or so, going to the Bears game thread, and and claiming the Bears have a better QB. Hey you are talking football right?
Maybe you do not see yourself as being a troll, but that is how you come across.

Every time you make a claim that you can not backup because of your NDA, you loose credibility.

And still no answer on this.

NDA, beotch.

Coming soon to the online store!

I'll take two.

Due to the NDA, the'Danger' sign should be removed from the sign. At some point, we would hope to let everyone know that there is danger involved, but testing is ongoing to determine the dangerness level and it has been determined that there is only danger 3 out of 2 times.

It's posts like this building off of the shirt that have been missing from this thread for like 40 pages.

One last time ... I am not selling the game. I neither work for Matrix Games nor Wintervalley Software.


Naw, detractors are going to be rude anyway. I had to ask about Vista, because you selectively ignored that it your post - just as you selectively ignored the other game changes in the question you posed above.


Not really, it is like going to the Packers board and posting information about the Bears in the Bears thread set up in the Off Topic or Other NFC North Teams areas. That is actually quite common on the many NFC North Football boards I read or post to.


Generally, when I reply to people who make illogical claims or post in a way that is against the rules of this board, and ask for some evidence or support of the premise, the result is an accusation of trolling or ad hominem (personal) attacks. It is a typical response on political or sports boards where people hide behind their screen names and make posts they would never get away with in a live public situation.

I know this thread has been one big laugh for some people here, and anything that goes against that is unwelcome to the status quo, but this thread was originally created to discuss Maximum Football rather than to be a hater thread to bash it.


I have not made that claim. I stated that I cannot post screen shots from a beta build without permission, as it is specifically against the NDA. I also stated that I could reinstall my XP machine with an earlier game build and run a season with that, but I have no particular want to do so, as most of the people who have asked me to do that on this board have thought it fine to post personal attacks and use vulgarities and expletives.

That stated, there are people here who really want to know more about the game: what it does and what it doesn't do. The post count on this thread makes it a little more obvious than a new one would, and the same detractors would post to a new one anyway.

Name one. Just one.

She lives in Niagra Falls. You wouldn't know her.

My cousin Tanya is interested.

Damn NDA.

In the spirit of being helpful, you should really drop this line of thought. Nothing pisses people off more than having someone new join a community and tell the community how they are violating their own rules. Without commenting on the rest of your posts, this is a trolling statement and it isn't going to serve you well.

Uh oh, me and Pumpy might be related. My cousin's wife that bought him the game is named Tanya.

HALP!!!

MF wasn't designed to produce realistic statistical results? Or even statistics that follow mathematical rules?

Not sure what you mean by "five second sim feature" - last I checked, the game has one way of simming games, whether you are watching in a viewer (which slows down the play by play immensely to allow the gamer to watch what's happening in a reasonable time frame) or simming a stretch of games.

Regardless, you can get the info you want by downloading the demo for the game and running it to your heart's content. That's the beauty of games that have demos - you can check them out before you buy...

Sportplanet.gamespy.com forum rules:

Quote:

Flaming, Bashing, and Trolling Hate posts and personal attacks will not be tolerated on ForumPlanet. Treat others on these message boards as you would expect them to treat you. Talking trash about another user or posting topics specifically to provoke a negative response from an individual, a group or an entire community is not acceptable on ForumPlanet. These posts will be deleted and may result in having the privilege of posting on the boards revoked. Board bashing is also not allowed on ForumPlanet. Please respect the various communities on ForumPlanet system. If another board is not your favorite, there's no need to complain about it. Simply refrain from visiting it. Board bashing posts will be deleted. Profanity No excessive use of profanity please. The occasional swear is fine, just don't let it be constantly.

Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck

You quoted every sentence I posted except the one asking about a demo.

Please don't call me flaming.

OK Marauders, I give up trying to help you. You are clearly trying to to talk at the FOFC community rather than try to be part of it, so you deserve whatever response you get.

The sim that will do the week in five seconds as opposed to showing it play by play.


I have, and I see the same problem in the IHOF league stats I had seen in the demo. This thread isn't about FOF though, so if one would like to address this, please do not take it as bashing FOF, which I believe is a good game. By the way, I have not only stated this is so in this forum, but I have directed people making inquiries on the Matrix Games board about games with GM features to look at Front Office Football as an alternative to Maximum Football.

In my opinion, people should purchase games that have more of the features they are looking for. In some cases that is Madden, in others Maximum Football, in others Front Office Football.


That is non sequitur to my comment.

I suspect Ant is likely doing up some numbers with his cousin, and I am sure he will post some results soon. He likely won't have the constants set for a conservative NFL style game or improved playbooks, but he should have some results, nevertheless.

There isn't a demo, and there likely is not going to be a demo for the 2.x run.

I thought that was well known, and I considered your question sarcastic and therefore unmerited of a reply. If it was not, then there is your answer.

According to Jim, there is one sim engine. The difference between simming a week in five seconds and watching a play by play is only that in the play by play, everything that happens in the sim is shown to you at a pace you can follow. Unless something has recently changed with FOF, there is no separate sim engine for fast-simming or playing a single game with play by play.

What problems have you seen that come anywhere close to the errors that have been posted here with the results generated in MF?

If I'm ever looking for a game where I can change the uniforms of my players, or if I have a hankering to recreate CFL football, MF is for me.

In what way? Am I asking for more than MF was designed for to actually count correctly when compiling stats? Am I asking too much for somewhat realistic statistical results?

It will be interesting to see some actual numbers, as opposed to hearing "I'm under NDA" or "Sorry, there's no demo for anyone to download and try out the game with".

Brian, I understand your point, but there are posters here that obviously want to make this a personal issue rather than talk about the game. As a moderator not only on other boards, but also a moderator for real life political and economic forums, I am unwilling to respond to their ad hominem tactics with appreciation.

Marauders: You act like Daivd and Matrix have been consistently honest and reasonable about marketing the game. Part of the problem is the hyperbole and contradictions coming from the developer and publisher. If the problems were more honestly addressed before people put down forty dollars I don't think you'd get as much shit around here.

Whether it's Daivd or Matrix, there has been a consistent attitude of deception surrounding this game going back to release dates, refund policies, and feature lists.

From Matrix:

From Matrix:


From MF page:

And the contradictions:
MF Page
Matrix

MF Page

Matrix

JPhillips you are damn good. Good illustration on why people have distrust for either David or Matrix because no one knows who is giving truthful information.

No offense, but you being a moderator on other boards and real life political and economic forums doesn't really mean much here. It does give you credibility as a responsible adult, but every community is made up of its own members following its own social norms. When a person joins a community, he/she can conform to those norms or try to make the community conform to them. People that conform to the norms tend to be accepted much more readily. This counts for all communities, not just ours. Ad hominem attacks suck, but it is easier to get away with them when you are already on the inside. It isn't necessarily fair, but that is the way it works.

Although I thank you for explaining that, the point is moot in this case. Whatever engine runs the sim in five seconds runs it in five seconds. I guess I'll just call it the sim engine from now on.


For the most part, I see more very good (100+ Passer Rating) and very poor (40- Passer Rating) games than is the NFL norm and similar things. I brought this up before, and people said the demo had to be old (it wasn't) or that the stats were inside the NFL norms. It is valid that the stats are within the NFL norm on their own, but I don't see them matching the NFL bell curve or the mode. It it more like the NCAA. Overall, the stats are pretty darn good though, but if Maximum Football did that, as it does in some leagues, there would be a negative response here.


This really is an empty premise. The Matrix Games website has leagues with stats posted. They are available to look at, and many of them have been for some time. The fumble stat bug shows up in some of them, but other than that, they are not as bad as people have claimed here recently. I don't see any 800 yard passing games or 99-86 games like in Madden.

http://www.geocities.com/proindoorfootball/homepage.htm

http://www.mbsportsnet.com/mbfl/mbcfl.htm

http://www.sportplanet.com/sbb/jerse...3/mfl/mfl.html

http://www.geocities.com/gary_l_sorrell/

The will be differences in the stats, as some leagues use CFL, indoor, outdoor, rouge, three downs, or four downs rules. One league even modded to five down play. Some leagues use the quick sim, some use only the 3D engine, and some use some of both. Some leagues use default playbooks, some use default plus FBMax playbooks, and some use custom playbooks. There have been some extra tweaks since the last public release, but to be fair, the public build is what a person would be using if one had purchased the game, so one should make comments on that.

As I have stated on this board and on the Matrix Games board, criticism helps the game become better, as long as it is specific and constructive. That doesn't mean it has to be positive; it just means it should have purpose other than just bashing the product.

I am unsure why anyone would want me to posts stats anyway. As a beta tester, I know the game pretty well, and I can make the game produce various stats by manipulating the constants and playbooks. Of course, any game owner can do this, but I would have to believe that one would rather see results from other game owners.

Again, I understand your point.

I will say that I came here to discuss the game. Some people took that at face value, and others just attacked at will with disregard to the written policies of this board. I would never allow that on the Matrix Games board or on any football or modding board I have moderated. Obviously, I would not allow that in a University or high school forum. I don't believe it is the norm on these forums either, and that is a major point.

I do understand that there will be some scepticism. This is, after all, a Front Office Football board. I also understand that some people have a personal problem with David for various reasons. As I have stated prior to this, I am not David, and I have been a critic of many of the same issues that people have here. I just have much more information on what is going on and where the game is at this time.

It is Matrix's choice not to provide a demo. I will say that I will not buy the game without one. If the game is better than the perceptions that people have of it, then a demo would provide a good way to demonstrate that.

Well, don't blame me for that. I have always believed in the adage that one should promise less and produce more. In other words, do not increase expectations to a point that the product is certainly going to disappoint. I am not part of the marketing team though, so I can't do much about it.


We can take those all in turn if you would like.

This is probably the crux of the matter. While I am not familiar with any other Gamespy forums, I am familiar with FOFC. In the world of FOFC, you haven't been treated all that badly. Go into any political thread or any of the console-war threads and you'll see people get much more heated and short-tempered. You may feel that you've been treated harshly compared to what you may have experienced in other places, but for these parts it has been pretty tame. That is why I suggest that pointing to "written policies of this board" is not going to win anybody over.

I understand that, and that is fair enough.

I will say that I have played nice demos that were poor games and skimpy demos that had much better gameplay.

For old timers like myself, it isn't a big deal, but I can see that it is for other gamers.

I agree, unmoderated political forums just bite, as are USENET sites. I try to stay away from them.

Some Madden forums are well known to hammer anyone talking about other football games. The question is if the community here wants to act like that.

What is ironic is that I have had the same problems with the game as others here have, but when I talk about it, I am told I must have a grudge. Oh well.

You should really check out the rest of the forum, and see if that statement really holds water.

FAIL. EPIC FAIL.

You are doing it wrong. Please get over your persecution complex.

Here are just a few examples of multi-page threads discussing other football games besides FOF.

Madden:
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ghlight=madden
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ghlight=madden
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ghlight=madden

NCAA:
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...=NCAA+Football
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...=NCAA+Football

All-pro Football 2K8:
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&highlight=2k8

Blitz, The League:
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ighlight=blitz

Bowl Bound College Football:
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...highlight=BBCF
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...highlight=BBCF

Total Pro Football:
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&highlight=TPF

First and Ten/Second and Ten:
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&highlight=ten

That may be why you came here, but if you really want to know why people are responding to you the way they are, all you have to do is going back to your first several posts in this thread. You responded to everyone with a very condescending attitude. You didn't discuss anything about the game, you just told people their opinions were valid or not valid, kept using the "but he's just one man" excuse and even implied that people on this board may have sent death threats to David Winters.

Seriously, with the way you talked down to people here from the very beginning, I'm surprised everyone has treated you this well.

How long have you been waiting to whip this one out?

6000 posts in and *now* we're being told not to reply to the thread?

What planet are you from?

And what is funny is that the Matrix boards don't have any threads dedicated to any other football games. So I don't see the whole point of what Marauders was trying to make there.

LOL! You have too many gems in this thread stretching over a year.

Planet Jesus. You?

Dude. Even Jesus likes Maximum Football. Just go back a few thousand posts. :)

This statement here is worse than any of your attempts to defend MF. You do realize that this is the forum that sports sim developers post info because it is widely regarded as an unbiased forum for sports sims?

I have no idea what made you reach the point where you decided to become a forum rules expert and tell the mods how things should be run here, but if you're going to come here with some of the comments made today you can expect this thread to get a whole lot uglier than it is now and it will have nothing to do with Maximum Football, regardless of what you might think.

Anyone a West Wing fan? Season 3, episode 18 (i believe)- Josh defends himself on "Lemon-Limon.kom" (not sure if .com would look like a real link) I see a correlation here. Josh has someone post to "clarify" and then when the can gets opened, he cannot stay away and gets into even deeper doo-doo...

After all I have read in the 6000+ posts, I think that it is best to post to be in the count, then move on. This certainly is some good humor- thanks to all who have contributed their share (:

Everyone is entitled their opinion, right?

Madden is to MF as MS Paint is to Photoshop.

From Daivd himself:

dola

Insight into the mind of MF buyers.

Depending on your definition of "just", this was posted just over 2 years ago and the question still isn't answered by MF.

That is a quote from an ex-football coach who is a fan of old college football.

Here is the complete quote in context:

Nice...except that YOU CAN'T GIVE MaxFB A TRY. You have to shell out $50 to buy the game.

Sigh...ponderous.

Toddzilla, I think you would have to agree that the following message pretty much sums up our interpretation of Marauders' shenanigans.

Ridiculous.. just ridiculous! Nice work Ant :D

Whoo! Ant's back with the musical goodness!

I want to cry right now...

Plain Black Ts in the house!!

I think that's my favorite Ant parody. Awesome.

By the way, give credit to the original writer in the spoiler tag please.

Congrats Toddzilla too!!

Whoo Todd! I give it 5 beer tents out of 5!

I give it 6 beer tents out of 5!

isn't this song against FOFC bylaws?

Nice.

LOL!

I can't wait to get home from work tonight, so I can listen to this masterpiece from Antmeister.

I don't recognize the song, but that was hilarious!

I guess that's my problem Marauders. One of my hobbies is gaming. I don't have a single GAME that's a hobby.

I suppose that could change if one game was so consuming that it got its hooks in me and didn't let go. (like maybe how WOW is to some people)

But to have a hobby for a single game that causes me to put in hours and hours just so I can get realistic stats? Forget it. There are other games I'll spend time on. When you think MaxFB is a game worthy of me calling it a hobby, let me know where I can pick the demo up and I'll give it a shot. Now? Sorry, it's not close.

Indeed, great lyrics Todd!!

Many thanks - all props to Ant for the production

It's a sappy love song called "Hey There Delilah". Here's the youtube of the music video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbJtYqBYCV8

Awesomeness. Great work, Ant and Todd...

That was funny guys.

Thumbs up!

:D

OMFG!!

Ant...that's hilarious!!!

Finally listened to it. Brilliant work by both of you gentlemen.

Wow, bravo!

Cheers, that was incredible.

Hahaha, indeed, very sappy.

Added the usual download link for those who are blocking out Flash.

That's freaking hilarious. :D

Good job Ant and Todd.

GOLD!

Thanks again, Ant, you rock.

Good Lord in heaven! What have all you 'nattering nabobs of negativity' done to my thread!!!

Bubba's back!...and quoting Spiro Agnew no less...indeed all is right with the world. :D

If Bubba Wheels somehow gets this thread locked with him having the last post, that will be the Circle of Life for this thread. It is unbelievable that this thread is over 2 years old already.

Don't you mean "just over" one year old?

:D

Dammit, I forgot there was more than one definition of "just". :D

God, this thread is so much fun I just might have to be a guinea pig and get this damn thing.......Must fight urge to go over to the dark side.....

I know - thats why the original lyric was "Nineteen months, just over a year" :D :D :D

Great work Ant and Todd!!! You guys rock!

That was brilliance, Ant and Todd. That was old-school Maximum Football???thread hilarity.

Great job Ant and Toddzilla. Lily sends her congrats as well.