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ISiddiqui 10-11-2005 09:51 PM

Nothing too new in the preview (aside from the ability to name landmarks), but a nice quick write up.

Looking forward to Solver's write-up (in a few days). Markos admited his was not very in depth ;).

Buccaneer 10-11-2005 09:59 PM

Thanks, all of the news I've been getting have been in this thread.

I like this part...a lot...

Quote:

A lot has been said about the modding abilities of Civilization IV. There are:

1) An in-game map editor
2) All game settings information on notepad-editable XML files
3) Graphics using non-closed formats like .DDS and .TGA
4) Python scripting everywhere from events to map creation algorithms
5) C++ SDK coming early 2006

More important than perhaps all of this though, is that many of the Civ community’s best creators are part of the beta testing team Firaxis put together, and have had the game in their hands for a long time now. This alone creates a major head start for the Civ4 modding community. In fact, additions to the in-the-box tools and resources will be available on Release Day.

Some great examples of Civ4’s modding powers will be seen in the included scenarios. At least 4 historical scenarios (with familiar as well as new themes) will be in the box, with Firaxis probably releasing more post-release. And yes, a world map IS included. No, dinosaur units won’t be included.

C++ SDK?!?!? That's unreal (apart that I think it should have been C#).

I'm still a little disappointed at my experiences with Civ3 (esp. after 1000+ posts at Apolyton) but having kept away from the jungle over there throughout Civ4 development, I can go into this game with a fresh attitude (and not getting hung up on leader traits ;) ).

jbmagic 10-11-2005 10:09 PM

i love this so far :)

Quote:

Civ4 improves things with the Artificial Intelligence (AI) being more active, suggesting treaties, declaring war when it sees you’re weak, asking for tech trading, asking for help against enemies, etc. etc. Not only that, but at last you have more information on how the other civs feel. Various things (good trade relations, close borders, different or same religion or civic choices etc.) affect each AI’s stance towards you negatively or positively, and at all times you have exact feedback on that.

Crapshoot 10-11-2005 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger
Bucc was there, after all.


He'll be here all night folks!

twothree 10-13-2005 10:30 AM

http://www.civ4.com/
or
http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/

Looks like the official site is updated with a lot of flash.

twothree 10-13-2005 07:57 PM

And, here is Civfanatics' hands-on preview

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/preview/

ISiddiqui 10-14-2005 11:26 PM

Solver's preview on Poly (SWEET!)

http://civilization4.net/3/171/

I'm REALLY excited about the things used to eliminate ICS. The idea that building an city makes maintaince costs higher in EVERY OTHER CITY your ENTIRE CIV [maintainence now being paid by your entire civ, and not each individual city] (simulating a national economy - how it'll cost more in infrastructure and labor costs across the country with every city, rather than one city just paying for upkeep of their own physical buildings and roads), is a very good one, IMO, and long overdue.

Btw, this also counts for conquered cities. You'll have to pay maintainance on them, which will also make the maintainance in your established cities go up, reducing your cash flow. So now war is the money drain, it's historically been... meaning, watch your treasury while in battle ;).

SnowMan 10-15-2005 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui
Btw, this also counts for conquered cities. You'll have to pay maintainance on them, which will also make the maintainance in your established cities go up, reducing your cash flow. So now war is the money drain, it's historically been... meaning, watch your treasury while in battle ;).


So you burn em all to the ground!! Muahahaha *evil laugh*

Eaglesfan27 10-15-2005 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowMan
So you burn em all to the ground!! Muahahaha *evil laugh*



Am I the only one that finds it ironic that a Snowman wants people to burn things down ;)

These previews are moving my interest up to the must buy level again..

Buccaneer 10-15-2005 11:07 AM

Finally, we have the cost of expansion and war.

ISiddiqui 10-15-2005 11:23 AM

I've already preordered the "Bible" version (so to speak ;)). I hope it runs well on my ollllld laptop. From Markos and Solver's previews, the game looks super sweet. The actual religion model (explained in Solver's preview) sounded very nice as well (not too unbalanced).

And ultra moddable... very nice.

Galaxy 10-15-2005 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27
Am I the only one that finds it ironic that a Snowman wants people to burn things down ;)

These previews are moving my interest up to the must buy level again..


Same here....It dropped off after hearing the negative comments being made, but the reviews are pushing it to the must buy level.

SnowMan 10-15-2005 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27
Am I the only one that finds it ironic that a Snowman wants people to burn things down ;)

These previews are moving my interest up to the must buy level again..

I would stay well away from the flames. ;)

I really liked civIII after mods and such, but I'm hoping civIV is more playable out of the box.

ISiddiqui 10-18-2005 12:19 PM

Btw, Part 2 of Solver's preview is up on Poly. The Great People dynamic really sounds like a great one (and a further deterrance to ICS strategies... you won't be making many, if any Great People without great cities).

TazFTW 10-22-2005 01:12 AM

IGN gives it a 9.4

http://pc.ign.com/articles/660/660495p1.html

ISiddiqui 10-22-2005 01:13 PM

And it's out on the 25th. Went gold earlier this week.

Oh, and Part 3 of Solver's preview is up ;).

jbmagic 10-22-2005 07:13 PM

SID MEIER comments.
Quote:

On Civ AI:
In a game like Civ, we have over 80 units, all with different movement rates, strengths, special abilities, experience levels, etc. We also have to decide where to place cities, what to build, who to be nice to and who to make war with. We also have to decide what to research, what religion to spread, what Civics to adopt, etc. All in all, I don`t expect to see anything close to true human intelligence any time soon, as long as games continue to get more complex.

Quote:

On Playability vs Graphics:
Recently, I`ve been working on several prototypes and was surprised to find that I reached a point fairly early on when I just couldn`t find any more fun in the concept - until I had some professionally created art. In the past, I was content to create my own art and never had any trouble envisioning gameplay, so this represents a fundamental change for me.

http://civilization4.net/

tucker342 10-22-2005 08:21 PM

There are two tidbits mentioned in the IGN Review that I didn't previously know about that I think are fantastic changes or additions:

Quote:

The diplomatic victory works pretty much the same as well but the UN is a much more potent force this time around. Once the Wonder is built, elections are held to determine who gets to be Secretary General. The Secretary General then gets the chance to propose new resolutions each turn. These resolutions would open up new trade, ban nuclear units, or force all the civs in the game to adopt certain civic options. If enough civs vote in favor of the proposal, it becomes a global rule. The final proposal basically asks the other civs to vote you a diplomatic victory. Assuming you've made some close friends among the larger civs, you should have it sewn up.
That's awesome that the UN actually does something now.

Quote:

The changes to happiness are among the most welcome changes in the game. Rather than sending your cities into disorder, excess unhappy people simply refuse to work. This means that your cities will definitely feel the burden of unhappiness but they won't be completely shut down like they have been in previous versions of the game.
That always drove me crazy in previous iterations to have the entire city shut down because the unhappy citizens outnumbered the happy citizens.

good god, if I actually had some money to spend, I would pick this up the day it's released

cuervo72 10-22-2005 08:32 PM

Meier sounds like Jim there in that second quote jbmagic listed...

ISiddiqui 10-22-2005 10:20 PM

Quote:

That's awesome that the UN actually does something now.
Well, its the SMAC model.

Buccaneer 10-22-2005 10:47 PM

Finishing Solver's review, couple of things:

Can someone explain to me what we are seeing in the 3rd screenshot on this page? http://civilization4.net/3/171/313/

Is this one large city? How many tiles are in a city?

Quote:

In CivIII, there was no concept of loyalty, although there was reputation. However, if you wanted to do so, you could easily get anyone on your side by repeatedly giving them 'gifts' worthless in value - such as 1 gold. Likewise, the AIs were quite happy to join wars, so getting foreign military help was not hard, either. Finally, there was technology whoring, which allowed you to gain huge profits from any tech. you had that the AIs didn't, whereas in the earlier parts of the game you could simply buy all the technology for gold.

I've heard about these but never got into Civ3 to really know how bad this was (I stopped playing after the fatal design flaw of the static tech tree). I wonder if we can chalk this up to the incompetence of the non-civer Jeff Briggs and the hands-off management of Sid? I am so glad Sid decided to work on Civ4 instead of doing SimGolf 2.

ISiddiqui 10-22-2005 11:06 PM

Bucc hasn't been following Civ4 ;).

Those other 'tiles' are towns, which have grown into city blocks. Towns give +1 commerce, IIRC, and advance as your Civ advances, adding more benefits.

Leonidas 10-23-2005 06:38 AM

It came out here in the UK on the 21st. It shipped via Amazon.UK to me then and I could have it, post willing, tomorrow.

Bee 10-23-2005 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker342
That's awesome that the UN actually does something now.

Oh..it's more of a fantasy game...cool. :D

jeff061 10-23-2005 08:34 AM

Great news on the UN stuff. I was one of the ones who loved CIV3, but I really missed the diplomacy that was in SMAC.

Buccaneer 10-23-2005 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui
Bucc hasn't been following Civ4 ;).

Those other 'tiles' are towns, which have grown into city blocks. Towns give +1 commerce, IIRC, and advance as your Civ advances, adding more benefits.


Nope, only what's been posted here. These towns started out as Cottages worked by a specialist? So is there no limit as to the incorporated area of a city? How does one know the limits in relation to an adjacent city?

ISiddiqui 10-23-2005 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer
Nope, only what's been posted here. These towns started out as Cottages worked by a specialist? So is there no limit as to the incorporated area of a city? How does one know the limits in relation to an adjacent city?

Well those cottages that are within your city radius are a part of yours :D. I don't know how they divide cottages/villages/city blocks among cities whose radii overlap.

jbmagic 10-23-2005 02:52 PM

circuit city will have the best deal to get civ4

it will be 49.99 but you will get a $10 gift card with it.

Best buy has it for 49.99 but no gift card included.

Celeval 10-23-2005 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui
Well those cottages that are within your city radius are a part of yours :D. I don't know how they divide cottages/villages/city blocks among cities whose radii overlap.


Essentially, instead of irrigating or mining that square, it became a cottage/village/town/piece of the whole city, eventually. A city (speculation time) would, I imagine, be boundered by its workable circle.

Leonidas 10-24-2005 02:19 AM

Amazon.uk had it for 43.88 after VAT (British 17% tax).

sachmo71 10-24-2005 09:20 AM

Anyone seen this?

hxxp://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3279 (not sure if site is work safe)

Quote:

Civilization IV Release Notes

A message from Sid Meier, creator of the Civilization series and the two-man bicycle:

"Hey gang! You know, it's been a long and crazy ride since I first took that brown acid and fell into a hippo pond at the San Diego zoo, an event that led to the creation of "Solo Flight", my first PC game product. Since then, my team and I have been working endlessly on the award-winning Civilization series, a gaming experience so vast and complete that it remains unchallenged in the realm of strategy gaming.

This latest version goes even deeper into all the aspects of human civilization, building on the working model of the first three editions. I think you'll find that the changes we made, detailed below, add to the excitement of gameplay. I just made a poop in my pants so, please excuse me while I go change. Enjoy."

I. Added Civilizations:

The Polish: Long have these hardy people existed in the unfavorable location between Germany and Russia, and have been overlooked as a major player in European history. Although much was destroyed in WWII, these proud people have outlasted the worst conditions and persevered with nothing more than potatoes and polka music. They are even America's third biggest ally right now in the fight against terror in Iraq. That tells you something!
Special Unit: Polka band. Replaces the archer. This unit has a special attack that can lower the culture of any city it enters.
Leaders: King Paskiewicz (seductive, warlike), John Paul II (religious, seafaring).

The Canadians: The Canadians have a long and rich history, going back as far as the age of discovery when the French fur trappers landed and refused to speak other language even though they were totally outnumbered. Then came the revolutionary war and Canada became the refuge for England, keeping the culture and even a picture of the Queen on their coinage. This was replaced by the loon bird when it became the new ruler of England. Then, the Kids in the Hall made some great sketch comedy, making Canada a valid country.
Special Unit: The Mounties. Replaces the cavalry unit. This unit can't attack but it looks pretty cool.
Leaders: Bryan Adams (cultural, warlike), Wayne Gretzeky (puck handling, slap shots).

The Tibetans: We are adding the Tibetans as a playable civilization just because they've been around for thousands of years. Although they don't produce any goods or have a national army, they can make those cool designs out of beads, and that's got to count for something. This civ gets a special religion bonus that keeps all your cities happy, but they have a weakness against Communism, and the space program.
Special Unit: Monk. Replaces warrior. This is the only unit allowed to be built by this civilization. They can't attack or defend and can be destroyed simultaneously when stacked.
Leaders: Dali Lama (religious, cultural), Beastie Boys (humor, rapping)

II. New Technologies

News Entertainment: Decreases war weariness via propaganda and confusion. Once you unlock this technology you may produce the special unit Bill O'Reilly. The unit may be used in an unhappy city by clouding the truth with unabashed lying and magic tricks.
Prerequisites: Fascism, Television


Latin Pop Music: The discovery of this technology gives you the ability to generate a new form of happiness in the guise of festive Latin pop. It allows you to build the Latin pop radio station, making two citizens happy in your city. The downside is that you lose two production from the illegal immigrant influx.
Prerequisites: The Tango, Radar

Ice Cube Trays: Learning this technology will allow you to continue up the tech tree to other luxury techs such as "mixed drinks". This will allow for more control of your populace during the turbulent modern era. This will also keep citizens' drinks nice and cool during summer, adding to your victory points.
Prerequisites: Refrigeration, Mysticism

III. New Units

Ancient: Headhunter, Ancient Clown, Hobbit, Raptor, Dragon, and Orlando Bloom.
Medieval: Pig Herder, Mel Gibson, Court Jester, and Plague Rat.
Industrial: Southern Dandy, Railroad Worker, Slave Clown, and Child Worker.
Modern: Terrorist, Modern Clown, Serial Rapist, Paparazzi, and Comedy Webmaster.

IV. New Features: Religion
For the first time, the concept of religion is being introduced into this series. We had stayed away from it previously for the obvious reason of avoiding heated debate over their benefits and shortcomings, but the effect of religion on shaping all of human civilization cannot be ignored. We have given players a choice of religion, an important decision that will decide the course of their nation as well as interactions with others. Here are some of them:

Christianity: Best choice if your civilization is lacking in literacy or free thought. This will keep most citizens unfocussed on facts and base all knowledge on the words of the bible. This will hurt science by 20% but it will boost happiness and moral righteousness (affects war weariness).

Judaism: You get a bonus to trade and free media technology, but the guilt over killing Jesus will cause your citizens to chastise themselves in self-loathing. Can't eat shellfish, hurting the lobster industry.

Islam: Your citizens will be distrustful of all other religions and grow long beards that look kind of scary. This alienates other civilizations with different religions and you will find your nation isolated. There is a 90% technology reduction but you do get a special unit, the suicide bomber, that can sneak into other cities and cause civilian damage. May not build a McDonalds city improvement.

Hinduism: Nobody will take you seriously if you pick this one, but you do get a bonus on having festive parties. Also you get a +30% technology bonus, but all military units are severely reduced in power.


V. New Features: Realistic Events

Wisdom Teeth: your leaders can now grow wisdom teeth that cost 50 gold to remove. There is a 70% chance of Vicodin addiction in the next 10 rounds. If the leader gets addicted, you lose half of production and leader becomes constipated, increasing chance of war with neighbors.

Gay Marriage: Once the technology of Broadway Musicals is unlocked, every city will have a percentage of gay people. Sid seems to believe that there are many more gay people out there than once suspected, so this percentage is between 10 and 100%. Your civilization has the choice to allow or disallow gay marriage. This will have a bearing on your population's happiness depending on the percentage of gay people in your cities. Example: You have a city that is only 10% gay, 80% rednecks, and 10% Indian tech support workers. Allowing gay marriage will upset all of the rednecks, causing mass homophobia (affects luxury trade). The Indian tech support workers will also be affected because of all the blogging going on as people discuss the subject. Choose wisely.

Hurricanes: If you live on a coastline, the chances of getting hit with a hurricane are increased. This will cause massive damage to the city and a long period of anarchy. If you have a competent emergency director this will only last 1 turn. If the director only has experience with Arabian horses, recovery will take 10 turns, but you will get a +1 to taming Arabian horses.


VI. Additional New Features

Floating around the map are random pizzas. If a unit lands on a pizza and eats it, the unit can gain a special power-up. Some of these can cause the unit to move faster, have a better attack, or be frozen on the square because they got too fat from the pizza. Also, the pizza could be a barbarian horde in disguise and attack your unit.

Frito-Lay chips are now a luxury item.

There is also a new Citizen type: the Blogger, which increases pollution.

Along with the new wild animal units on the unsettled map, there are also ghosts on the move. If one of your units dies, there is a chance that it will become a ghost and haunt the map. If a ghost enters your city then it will become haunted and it will add to unhappiness but increase tourism. You have an option to pay 20 gold for a ghost hunter team to do an investigation, whereupon the game will switch to a first person shooter and you have to catch the ghosts with an electronic harness and put them in a bag.

Finally, there now are random seahorses in the ocean squares that are animated and play the song "Under the Sea" when your boats sail by. This boosts the sailors' morale by 3.


VII. Fixes from old version

Units will no longer vanish when walking across mountains. This was to simulate their getting lost and being eaten by their guides, but it was found to be too confusing to players.

Inside jokes inserted by the programmers into the diplomacy screens, like "Tom's mom sucks cocks in hell", have been removed.

Spearmen can no longer kill tanks. Archers, however, may be able to shoot their arrow into the gun barrel, detonating the shell and destroying it. They may also destroy battleships if they happen to shoot the powder magazine.

This version won't teleport some players into the game, causing them to be immersed in an electronic universe and then killed by conscript barbarian warriors after walking into a cluster of huts. If this still happens, update your display drivers.

Scouts now wear underwear.

When a city riots, there will just be a waft of smoke coming from the city instead of a bunch of black people stealing TVs.

The crashing issues have been addressed, and the resulting fires and deaths should now be minimized.

More Sid Meier's face in the game -- at all times, on every screen.

Civilization IV comes out this month, retailing at $138. It comes in a collectable tin that is great for stashing drugs. Pre-order today!



Mr. Wednesday 10-24-2005 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer
I've heard about these but never got into Civ3 to really know how bad this was (I stopped playing after the fatal design flaw of the static tech tree).

I don't agree that it's necessarily easy to get help going into a war in Civ 3, at least not the version I'm playing (should be the final pre-PTW patch). In a game that I was playing quite recently, I recruited a couple of allies after getting attacked by the Chinese. In one branch of the game, after both allies made peace I followed suit, then when the Chinese attacked again a couple hundred years later (partly because I was stupid and didn't continue to build up my army) both previous allies flat refused to join me (claimed not to consider any inducements). (I replayed from an earlier save point, this time one ally did not make peace so I remained at war myself, and things turned out much better.)

twothree 10-24-2005 02:07 PM

Here is a link to some information on unique units, spies, and other game mechanics as posted at Civ Fanatics today.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/prev...ng_the_gap.php

ISiddiqui 10-24-2005 02:09 PM

It'll be out tomorrow!!!

Ksyrup 10-24-2005 02:17 PM

What are the computer specs?

ISiddiqui 10-24-2005 02:24 PM

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=140092

MIMIMUM
# Windows 2000/XP with SP1 or higher
# Intel Pentium 4- or AMD Athlon CPU with at least 1,2 GHz
# 256 MB RAM
# 64 MB graphics card with Hardware T&L (GeForce 2/Radeon 7500 or better)
# DirectX 7 compatible soundcard
# DVD-ROM drive
# 1,7 GB free hard disk space

RECOMMENDED
# Windows XP with SP1 or higher
# Intel Pentium 4- or AMD Athlon CPU with at least 1,8 GHz
# 512 MB RAM
# 128-MB graphics card with DirectX 8 support (pixel- and vertex shaders)
# DirectX 7 compatible soundcard
# DVD-ROM drive
# 1,7 GB free hard disk space

NOTE: DVD-ROM requirement is ONLY FOR EUROPE. For the US, it's CD-ROM.
---

I'm going to try it with a 32 MB VRam videocard. AOE III demo worked fine on it, even though it had the 64 MB VRam requirement as well.

gstelmack 10-24-2005 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
Anyone seen this?

hxxp://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3279 (not sure if site is work safe)


That was beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

Ksyrup 10-24-2005 02:36 PM

Thanks. Hell, my computer is so old I can't even remember what my processor speed is!

Ben E Lou 10-24-2005 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui
I'm going to try it with a 32 MB VRam videocard. AOE III demo worked fine on it, even though it had the 64 MB VRam requirement as well.

Same here. AOE demo worked fine on 32MB on my laptop. What the heck is the world coming to when a Civ game requires a souped-up video card? :confused:

ISiddiqui 10-24-2005 02:52 PM

Well, they are trying to get into the pretty graphics market. And, from what I've been told, 64 MB VRam is actually on the very low end of things. I'm getting old ;).

I'm sure 32 should work fine on CivIV, as long as they let you try it. TBS makes it a bit better, and if things get jerky, you can turn off the animations, I'm sure.

Crapshoot 10-24-2005 02:58 PM

You can't buy a computer today with less than 128 on a dedicated Video Card- its the basics guys. :D

Airhog 10-24-2005 05:46 PM

I hear some walmarts have the game out on the selves already. Worth a look if you really want the game :D

ISiddiqui 10-24-2005 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog
I hear some walmarts have the game out on the selves already. Worth a look if you really want the game :D

Don't do that to me! ;)

sterlingice 10-24-2005 06:40 PM

But his words are backed with nuclear weapons ;)

SI

Vince 10-24-2005 06:42 PM

Well, I'll be trying the game with the bare minimum in terms of PC Specs. My video card is semi-nice though, so I'll be pushing the boundaries of RAM and Processor Speed.

Buccaneer 10-24-2005 06:44 PM

The PC I built 3 years ago is at Recommended Specs. I think I did ok.

JonInMiddleGA 10-24-2005 06:46 PM

Some of the parody was funny, some not so funny, but I loved this one line
Quote:

There is also a new Citizen type: the Blogger, which increases pollution.

vex 10-24-2005 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog
I hear some walmarts have the game out on the selves already. Worth a look if you really want the game :D


:mad: :mad: :mad:

I called my walmart, the guy said "yeah, we have a couple of copies left". So I have him reserve me one, I get there, and it's Civ III. :mad:

MikeVic 10-24-2005 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vexroid
:mad: :mad: :mad:

I called my walmart, the guy said "yeah, we have a couple of copies left". So I have him reserve me one, I get there, and it's Civ III. :mad:


That guy is obviously not a Civ fanatic. >:(

Ben E Lou 10-24-2005 07:18 PM

There's a Wal-Mart a half mile from Chez Lewis. Going to check now...


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