This will perhaps be controversial. Still, here goes: I think some of you are on the verge of overestimating the impact of Mario.

We've seen four Mario characters taken in two and a half rounds. He was important, no doubt. Very important. But we've seen four different Mario characters go, and no (for example) Ms. Pacman. Doesn't that seem a little excessive?

In a BBC poll, Pac Man finished #1 with Link second, and Mario a distant third. Something to think about.

I would say you could make a reasonable argument that the Mario franchise is the greatest in video game history. Therefore, I don't think it's really possible to take too many characters from it.

Presumably conducted in Great Britain? I don't think a population of that size is a representative sample of the entire world of gaming.

Well we're not talking about a Presidential election are we Professor cthomer5000, Sociologist? I just pointed it out as a point of interest. :p

You people underestimate the value of the Asteroids arrow. The only hero character in the best selling atari game of all time and the most sucessful game of the vector graphics era. Long Live ARROW!.

I actually thought that "medium sized asteroid" really carried that game. "Big asteroid" was too big--and we all know that "small asteroid" was just there for show. Arrow? Well, I guess he was ok, but for my money--the game would not have been the same without "medium sized asteroid." ;)

haha

SI's Round 2 Analysis
This round had everything from great picks to lukewarm picks to ones that just left me flabbergasted. You can start to see who is going for older games and who is going for newer games and a little of what type of gamers we have (console, PC, arcade).

12- Maple Leafs - Lara Croft
Notoriety: 10- With two movies, even people outside of gaming know who she is.
Longevity: 6- Not quite as long as some of these others. Still, she's got more than 7 years under her, uh, belt.
Games: 7- Above average adventure games with enhanced scenery. The latest offering was not well received.
Misc: 10- She certainly has talent, two of them specifically. On a board full of guys, that's a lot of bonus points.
Overall: 10- I figured she was a late 1st rounder and Maple Leafs stole her. Nice pick!

11- Desnudo - Tommy Vercetti (GTA)
Notoriety: 4- Everyone from concerned parents to rabid gamers know the games, but Tommy himself isn't well known.
Longevity: 2- A newbie compared to most of the picks so far- only 2 games old.
Games: 10- GTA3 and it's sequel are reaching legendary status, both vying for the best game of the current generation.
Misc: 6- GTA1 was kindof novel, GTA2 was just more of the same stale stuff and Tommy wasn't in either.
Overall: 8- He's a big shot now but how long can the insane level of popularity of the GTA series last?

10- albionmoonlight - Frogger
Notoriety: 8- An arcade and PC legend from days long past.
Longevity: 9- I remember playing the original on an Apple IIE. With the retro fad in full swing, he's seen a little resurrection of late.
Games: 5- The original arcade game is a classic. Unfortunately, Frogger hasn't had many successes since as Frogger 2 for the Playstation is the only thing to get mild acclaim.
Misc: 5- Love those sound effects.
Overall: 8- Can't really argue with an arcade legend. Unfortunately, I think his day in the sun was a long time ago.

9- Calis - Little Mac (Punchout)
Notoriety: 7- Big game that everyone knows and that was before Mike Tyson went insane. Loses a point or two for Little Mac but unfortunately the rules prohibit Aluminum Mike from being drafted.
Longevity: 1- One hit wonder. I've long lamented the fact that the best boxing game ever made is nearly 20 and nothing else has ever come close.
Games: 10- To give (Mike Tyson's) Punchout anything but a high grade is heresy.
Misc: 10- It has everyone's favorite insane boxer. FYI: King Hippo was in Captain N but I think his obscurity as "just another boxer" may cancel out those tv points for the fact that Little Mac is the hero.
Overall: 7- Another pick of "big game, small character" syndrome. Still, a good pick.

8- EagleEye11 - The Arrow from Asteroids
Notoriety: 5- Everyone knows of asteroids, but does the arrow even have a name or anything?
Longevity: 1- Another one hit wonder.
Games: 8- Asteroids is a classic arcade game. There are few repackagings, however, as it's just not that deep of a game.
Misc: 3- The paddle from pong was an intersting pick and can be overlooked because of the contribution of Pong. This pick doesn't benefit from that same carte blanche.
Overall: 3- EE was in a tough spot last round, having to choose after the legends were gone and did pretty well with Duke. This time around, I'm severly underwhelmed.

7- TargetPractice6 - Ryu (Street Fighter)
Notoriety: 7- A little of an "ensemble cast" pick but one of the two biggest characters from a well known game series
Longevity: 8- The original Street Fighter goes back to 1987- I didn't know it was that old. SF2 was 1991.
Games: 7- Street Fighter II is *the* classic arcade fighter. Lately, they've just churned out games with little innovation, tho, and series like Tekken and SoulCaliber have passed it by.
Misc: 8- Started the video fighting craze and, yes, MK was just a pale shadow of this great fighter with more blood.
Overall: 9- I really like this pick. Ken would have gotten an identical score.

6- ice4277 - Space Marine (Doom)
Notoriety: 6- Big game, small character, again. A lot of those this round.
Longevity: 6- The greats were from 1993 and 1994. 10 years later, Doom 3 is coming out.
Games: 8- Beautiful FPSs from the days when id and Carmack could do no wrong.
Misc: 5- I love the Doom series, but I think Wolfenstein 3D and Quake were more revolutionary.
Overall: 5- A little of a reach right now but only because quite a few more "qualified" guys are out there.

5- Corbes - Leisure Suit Larry
Notoriety: 5- If you're a computer nerd and over the age of say, 12, you know who he is.
Longevity: 8- Back from when you had to choose whether to use VGA or EGA as your monitor type with a Q3 2004 expected release for the most recent entry.
Games: 8- I'm sad to admit this is the first character who I know by reputation only and haven't played any games. Not exactly games with critical acclaim, they are known for their other, ahem, merits.
Misc: 10- Did crude and edgy back before it was trendy and everyone had been desensitized.
Overall: 7- Well known "underground" character. May get a surge in popularity when the newest game is released later this year on PC, PS2, and XBox.

4- Ramzavail - Cloud (Final Fantasy)
Notoriety: 7- One of the two main characters from the game that made RPGs
Longevity: 3- Cloud's almost a one hit wonder. He's gotten cameos in other Square games like Kingdom Hearts, however.
Games: 8- For good or for ill, I gotta admit the game was revolutionary. The materia system was the best of the playstation battle systems and it was something unlike anyone had ever seen.
Misc: 1- Hate 'im. Hate 'im. Hate 'im. I mean-- oh, never mind, I won't go into my rant about "neo playstation rpgers, their complete and utter disregard for plot, and the ability to be distracted by shiny objects".
Overall: 8- I think my feelings on the character are pretty clear, but the pick is solid as a rock. This would have been a 9 if it were Sephy as I think he was a more popular character not so much justifiably but because he had the "hey, I'm cool because you know nothing about me" aura much like Boba Fet--

3- SirFozzie - Shang Tsung (Mortal Kombat)
Notoriety: 6- Hm... this one's a head scratcher to me. I would think Sub Zero or Scorpion would be bigger names but he is the main baddie.
Longevity: 7- As old as Street Fighter 2, almost.
Games: 7- MK made a splash even if it was a lesser game than SF2. And, like Street Fighter, not much real innovation the past few years has allowed it to be passed up.
Misc: 3- It's Street Fighter with worse play control and more gory graphics so all the kids/teens loved it. I never got into the arcade fighting craze and I found it stupid that I could stand across the screen and beat much better players by being a cheap bastard with Scorpion.
Overall: 6- Solid pick but it loses a point or two for being only the third or fourth most popular character in the ensemble cast.

2- cthomer5000 - Roger Wilco (Space Quest)
Notoriety: 3- You have to be older than about 15 to remember these games and a computer dork back when every other person wasn't.
Longevity: 5- The games are older than dirt but the series fell off the map in the early 90s when you had to do more than just Sierra cookie cutter games.
Games: 9- I loved the Space Quest games and their nutty sense of humor. Unfortunately, they are somewhat dated and I fear that if they tried to remake it, they would just butcher it.
Misc: 8- These are some of the funniest games ever made.
Overall: 5- Obscure for some, a computer gaming icon for others. I'll split the difference and call it a 5.

1- Vince - Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
Notoriety: 6- Another huge series and Simon was in the most games, I believe.
Longevity: 5- The games go back to the late 80s and are still popular today. Simon was only in the NES and SNES incarnations, however, so a couple of points are lost.
Games: 8- Castlevania 1, 2, and 3 are all classics and Super Castlevania is pretty good.
Misc: 5- Any idea why they switched over to Richter Belmont who first appeared in obscure Dracula X ($50+ on ebay for the rare SNES version)?
Overall: 7- Not great, but pretty good. Vince has the best game series stable going with Mario and now Castlevania.

Closing Comments
I hate to start out with the bad picks, but with a lot of big name characters still on the boards, why pick Roger Wilco or the Space Marine from Doom when they're likely to drop another round or two. I'm guessing those names weren't near the top of other lists and probably even left off of a few. Still, I can't be too hard on them as they are some favorite games of mine. As I predicted, this was where you either chose a big franchise (Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Castlevania) and went with your best option or went with the star of a smaller series (Lara Croft, Leisure Suit Larry). The more I look at that Little Mac pick, the more I like it because, while it was a reach, he had no shot at making it back around. Plus, he gains bonus points on a sports board.

Next round, I'm looking for more of the same: there are still a lot of large series unspoken for and a lot of major characters in smaller series out there. I think we still have a round or two to go before our first giant reach- people still want to look good before going all out and choosing an obscure personal favorite.

Biggest Steal: Lara Croft- First rounder who went in #2. I also like the Ryu and Cloud picks a lot.
Biggest Stretch: The Arrow From Asteroids- This is kindof silly and the minute someone takes a Tetris block, the arkanoid paddle, or the other the ball in pong, we've just fallen into absurd.
Should Have Gone: Kirby- He's been around since the NES days, still has games now, and even a tv show. I've got a second pick for this but really don't want to ruin anyone as he's a bit more of a sleeper.

SI

Well, right now my 2nd choice for round 2 is still on the board. If he falls to me then that should make up for you not liking my previous pick.

I will choose Yoshi.

The first rideable character :)

Thanks for the breakdown SI, but a Misc. consideration should be made for the fact that Ray Liotta does the voice acting for Tommy. Pretty amazing to have a big name actor, and one who perfectly fits the bill, do the voice over for a video game character. GTA3: VC also had other notable actors voicing it, including Dennis Hopper.

BTW SI, I really like your breakdown. Keep it them coming :)

[rant]

Can people PLEASE stop posting characters they think should have been taken?! In literally every case, the character has been on my draft board. You're only aiding the unprepared and frankly - it isn't fair.

[/rant]

So... which big name actor are you talking about? ;)

Hmm, just re-read yoyr review from round 1. player one paddle gets a 9 and mine a 3? You do realize Asteroids has outsold pong and Gamespy rated Asteroids as the #1 arcade game of all time with pong #2.

Nobody listens - Ive stopped complaining. Everybody has a listening problem here.

SI probably did a great job until he barfed out a stupid statement about Kirby. I scanned the whole post first, then I was going to go back up and read everyone, then I saw his "should have gone" statement - now I could careless.

The mushroom from Mario should be selected.

Just kidding, I want to tick off cthomer.

"One day the kids from the neighborhood carried my mother's groceries all the way home. You know why? It was outta respect."

May have been a one hit wonder, but what a hit. :cool:

You mean I can't mention Marble from Marble Madness?

...nuts

:p

Obviously marbles were around before the game came out, thus eliminating Marble. Which is a shame because Marble could run through level 8 Mario Brothers no problem.

Donkey Kong can't quite be considered a bad guy because he eventualy turned over to the good side.

So... the Contra guy is still availabe...


I got nothing.

I think "Nobody Listens" is quickly becoming one of my favorite sayings. :)

Mckerney you are most defintely going to burn in the fiery pits of h-e-double-hockey-sticks.

Nobody listens - I'll keep saying it.

Well, If I do, I hope that I get a chance to see Kyle Katarn down there.

(Mumbling to himself): You know, if people would send in picks in advance we wouldn't have these two hour gaps between picks, and there wouldn't be time for anyone to come in and give away your next pick.

(Realizes nobody cares. Shoves hands in pockets. Walks away.)

bah mock drafts, that's it.

Else I would have gone with villains all the way.

Like Gul'dan?

mckerney, people have asked you to stop yet you persist anyway. Can't you just give it a rest with naming characters? Now it seems you are doing it just to piss people off.

Yeh, yeh, Maple Leafs and others, sorry. I expected to be back sooner than this to select:

Ms. Pac Man

Literally THE first female of video gaming. I was looking to go old school on this pick, and no CHARACTER is more recognizable than her.

Plus, Leisure Suit Larry was demanding I select a lady with this pick.

Ice and TP are both online, so we should get a quick run of picks.

Only problem is I don't know who to pick :)

Ya, I am debating my pick now. I need to think harder so I can get a better score from SI :D

About giving away character names, I guess when SI is doing it in his commentary it doesn't seem bad, but people posting names just for the sake of pissing people off is very troll-like.

dola-

I think Frogger might deserve a bonus miscellaneous point for the Seinfeld episode.

I'm surprised King Bowser lasted until the 3rd round...

Good call with Luigi...I was tempted, but couldn't bring myself to pass up the main character from the prize of the X-Box line.

Simon Belmont was the king of the Belmonts, and it was his games that spawned the entire franchise, which now spans something like 4 different systems.

EDIT - Simon Belmont was only in the first two Castlevania games. The third featured his ancestor something-or-other Belmont. The rest were also not Simon, I believe. I still see him as the founder of the line and the most notorious of the Belmonts.

Actually not true -

http://www.classicgaming.com/castlevania/dungeon.htm

He was in more games. But I agree he was the founder and 'argueably' the most prominant character from that series.

Thanks for the correction, Ramzavail.

This thread now has ~25 more posts than the Football Draft thread. What is this board for again?

Well, I was debating this one for quite awhile; most of the candidates I could come up with are ok, but for only my third pick, I think I still need a character that most people would recognize. That brings me back to just a handful of games, one of which was Street Fighter. Ryu went at this same time last round; therefore, its not a stretch to see:

KEN From Street Fighter

get taken at an identical place in the third round. Identical attributes and moves as Ryu, no real dropoff in talent; if this was an NFL draft, it would be a no-brainer. Here, maybe not the most original pick, but we're talking top video game characters, and he is definitely just as important as Ryu.

Are you sure she's his type? I mean, he's not too particular but, she's a circle with a triangle missing and a bow on top ;)


Some might say Lara Croft is the first rideabale character, but I digress

I'm not trying to tick off people here or anything (well, maybe if you scroll down a few paragraphs but that's retalliation not instigation): I'm just giving my personal play-by-play since a couple of others figured it sounded like a good idea and I thought it sounded like fun. Certainly don't pick someone to satisfy me- on draft day, it's the owners not Mel Kiper who has to pay the players who they draft and he certainly has been wrong on many occasions and he's forgotten more about football that I'll ever know about video games. To me, the pick was a derivative pick of the paddle in round one. Lots of others felt differently.

As for the stats, I didn't know that Asteroids outsold Pong but what measure is that by? Arcade quarters gobbled, total cost of all arcade games bought? I dunno- I tend to go by IGN and Gamespot before Gamespy (tho, they are now absorbed into IGN). Tho, for a counterpoint, didn't they also have a 25 biggest moments in gaming history and "the creation of pong" and, by extension, video games, take #1 there?

I understand that naming off every character out there isn't cool. I mean, only a bastard goes around saying "hey, that guy I like is lacking an RP and Robb Nen is still on the boards, just so you know, everyone picking before him" but I figured I was throwing out one name a round of what I thought were really glaringly obvious misses from the previous round.

As for my writeups, I'll just start leaving off the "Who should have gone" part. That said, I'm not going to stop naming people in the reviews- when TP picked Ryu, the cat's out of the bag and I'm not going to shy away from mentioning Ken or M.Bison- a SF2 guy has been picked so the next one doesn't really carry as much weight. Same with the mention of Wolf3D and Quake in the Doom writeup. But I'm not trying to outguess people's picks here and I'll try to minimize stuff that could give away upcoming picks.

And, finally, I wouldn't have done this but you felt the need to call me out. IT'S JUST A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER DRAFT. Now, I really hate when people say stuff like this because I feel that if you're going to do something, you should try and do it right. However, there's something to be said for proportional response. Is this for cash? I'm pretty sure it isn't. Is it for competition? Not really, since there's no tangeable way to measure who won. It's clear you're the one with the list of 200 characters ranked 1-200 for a 10 round draft that's just supposed to be for fun. But you seem hell bent on whining and moaning until someone pays attention to you. We get it already: you're that guy that was in the front of our class today, you know the type: smarter than the rest of us but still needing to look down your brown nose at us, suggesting to a teacher that we get more projects in an already hard class.


SI

The "cat's out of the bag" argument is interesting. From the perspective inside of the draft, picking the 2nd Street Fighter character does not have the cashe' (I have no idea how to spell that) as picking the first one.

When, however, it is all said and done, and someone looks at these lists who was not involved in the draft, he is going to see Ken on one list and Ryu on another list and--not knowing who picked first--will see them equally (or at least as equally as he sees Ken and Ryu). From that perspective, getting Ken late is a better value pick than getting Ryu early.

(I am putting way too much thought/energy into this).

I think the easiest resolution here is for everyone to stop posting names that haven't been picked. You are making an assumption when you say that the cat's out of the bag because something was already picked. I, for example, had no memory of M. Bison until you mentioned it in that thread. I appreciate the recap, and I'm not upset that people are throwing out random names, but I'd prefer if they would not do it.

I cannot BELIEVE that someone actually reported mckerney's posts to me.

Two suggestions:

1. If you feel the need to mention a name, please consider whether you'll be helping or hurting the fun factor for everyone else in the draft beofre you do.

2. If someone does mention a name, don't fly into a girlish rage about it. Some people like that sort of thing. Just ignore it and move on.

I'm not really sure who to pick here, but I need a Nintendo character :)

So with the 7th pick of the 3rd round I select...

Fox McCloud, Star Fox

By today's standards his 3D adventure on the SNES looks pretty crude, but it's creative levels still make for a fun Star Wars-esque shooter.

I agree with Desnudo. The point of drafts like this is to test peoples knowledge and memory with classic video games. If somebody wants to get a leg up on the rest of the people they need to do their own search on google, put their own time and effort into it. I hope the same will go for the Actor/Actress draft which I am going to be a part of :).

nice pick with fox. imo

Thank Mario Sterling didn't screw my pick. IMO, this guy is one of the 10 most recognizable video game characters, has been in many games and is a big pink marshmallow. I select Kirby. I probably should have selected him with my 2nd rounder, but I am please he is still here. Steal of the round.

Part of me would love to see SI turn around and call this pick "a complete fiasco, deserving of our contempt".

I was thinking about taking Kirby... but I just like Fox more.