Just to get a vote out there:

VOTE DaddyTorgo

He was one of the last to swing his vote to Scoobz and he really needed to be swayed to do so.

SnDvls will start talking later. He tends to be say a lot with fewer posts than people like Alan, blade, or even myself.

KWhit, well, I thought he would be talking more, but it's been a while since I've seen him play.

With Sublime...I'm conflicted. There is the part of me that wants to be nice to the new guy, let him get settled and such. Then there's the part that remembers that people were nice to me during my first game, I was bad, and I used it to screw them. But for now, give other choices, I'd rather not lynch the newbie.

gonna hafta catchup later this afternoon 6 or 7 again. hafta take niece for a flu shot and then go and hopefully get my ass promoted. can't read 2 pages of posts on my phone right now

Vote Chief Rum

The last game when I was super talkative at the start, two people came out buddy buddy with me, or perhaps not necessarily buddy buddy, but they supported me "thinking" I was good. Both people ended up bad.

Believe me or not, I usually don't see many good reasons for innocent villagers to back an unknown pretty strongly early other than with the thinking that when I get lynched or night killed and end up good it buys you trust since you were defending a good guy. I don't know squat about you, so I assume you know just as little about me.

As for my thoughts on the 4 factions and particular the 3 smaller groups.. My assumption going in you would have one main group of villagers/townspeople who would be the largest group. To counter that you have the main evil group (Mordor) who has the night kill action as well as some other possible normal bad guy actions.

You then have Isengard (Saruman), and Arnor (Rangers) who are more support groups for the side of darkness and side of light. Each with their own winning condition, I would imagine Saruman's side possibly having various support type bad guy actions... things like Conversion, a one time (or limited time) assassin role, etc. The Rangers, having excellent knowledge in tracking and healing and protection might have roles such as a witness role or some form of seer role as perhaps a bodyguard action.

I would think having two or three groups that can do night kills might make the game very chaotic and unpredictable (Even though I guess its always a possibility). My thinking is Saruman's forces probably can do a night kill, but just not every night or maybe not more than once a game and want to try to identify a good target so its not wasted.


Finally to Saldana and Blade.. believe whatever you want. My posts day 1 were out of my love for this genre, and were not trying to incite a lynching. Long story short, but without Tolkien I actually never probably would have known about Baseball Mogul, FOF or OOTP and you all likely would never had to have put up with me in the first place. If you are clinging to the idea that I was doing some passive agressive lynch maneuvering with my comments then thats your prerogative. I've not lied about anything this game, my feelings or otherwise.

I've sent a pm and am awaiting a response. When I know, you'll know.

I'm wondering if there is a dynamic in the game where certain factions can only kill every other night or have to wait a certain number of days to kill etc...

I find it impossible to believe anyone was lying low last night

Keep looking on me I was on and posting all day yesterday

Good analysis on this one. Although saying you haven't lied makes me suspicious.... >_>

Alan, you can stop defending yourself about yesterday to me....i let it go last night because i came to think that you were doing exactly what you say above....if i thought anything otherwise, you would have gotten my vote today.

It wouldn't surprise me. I suspect Alan isn't totally correct about the Saruman faction; if they are outnumbered and can't night kill they couldn't ever get their major victory. Something like this makes that work. There could be a fairly significant percentage of failures on night kills, too.

I am a hobbit in Real life.













There, now I can't say that any longer.

Sorry, with the giant history lesson that was going on most of the day, I'm sure posts got missed in my search for game-related posts.

Well I'm at a loss as to who to vote for today so far. Seems we have no real information other than to look at Fouts comments to see if he gave any hints.

Well thats why I said I wouldn't be suprised if Saruman's forces have some form of conversion that they can use (even possibly multiple times) as a balance. Saruman gained his forces by cross breeding Sauron's forces (such as orcs) with the good people (such as men) to form his army. Going along with this, I wouldn't be suprised if they have that ability.

Great, now I can't trust you anymore! No circle of trust for j00!

Hm, perhaps. But they'd still have to be able to catch up to Sauron on numbers somehow in order to lynch kill them out of the game. Maybe they get some sort of defensive effects so that Sauron can't chip them down?

I'm under the impression that the Saruman forces outnumber Sauron. The intro says that both Sauron and the Rangers are small groups, but it doesn't say that about Saruman.

Looking at yesterday's action, Fouts voted against KWhit to get him to come out of the woodwork. Then I believe he was the fourth person to vote for Scoobz. What you can take from that is beyond me.

My guess would be, dark adept = attempt to kill him by forces of darkness converts him to the side of those that make the attempt.

Are we all forgetting Blade's crazy talk yesterday? What the heck was that about, anyway?

That's what started the whole Blade, Saldana, AlanT thing (that has now got Chief Rum in the hot seat too).

Blade's crazy talk is either:

1) Part of his role.
2) Some kind of gambit to do something.

If it's #1 and his role is somehow looney tunes, I can't see keeping him around because crazy folk aren't good for helping you win. Either he's somehow tainted by the One Ring or is otherwise mentally challenged.

If it's #2 and he was just trying to get a reaction out of someone - he succeeded. However, I don't know how that helps us good guys, and has likely distracted us into the Saldana-AlanT thing when it is quite possible that they are both good.

Dola, along those lines, I think it's highly unlikely that anyone besides Scoobz was aware of his role.

i think this is highly likely, although i doubt it was an either/or situation....i think it was likely that he had to be found by a specific group of dark players.

i am figuring that there are actually very few true bad guys in the game, maybe 2 on each side to start, but with the ability to make multiple conversions throughout the game...i would guess they have some sort of seer ability to help them find their adepts.

my thought would be that there are 2 sauron and 2 saruman agents out there, with 2 or 3 possible conversions for each of them, and probably 3 rangers to balance them out.

Good luck getting Dolas during the afternoon in a game with 25 players!


-Anxiety

Because nobody really stood up for him, or for another reason?

dola, the reason i doubt it was an either/or situation was because Sauron and Saruman are rivals in the game....finding and eliminating one of the opponents possible conversions would be a big benefit for either of them....if the adept could go either way, then finding one of them could unbalance that rivalry very early in the game with no way for the other side to catch up.

I find it interesting that KWhit starts trying to turn the attention to Blade after I mention how Fouts originally voted for him. I'm not accusing him of anything, I just find it interesting.

For the record, though, I do agree that Blade needs to go sooner rather than later. By either being crazy or acting crazy, he's really confused things. And I don't see how that helps the good guys.

I would say because no one made a real effort to sway the vote from him when it became clear he was going to be one of the lynch candidates for the day.

i find it interesting that both you and Kwhit are trying to turn the attention back to blade right after he said he had classes for the next 4 hours and wouldnt be here to defend himself.

Because that's the only way a non-affiliated dark side role makes any sense to me.

And I find it interesting that you keep defending Blade against everyone.

I think lynching the dark adept is a big positive outcome, but at the same time, there's very little to be learned from the vote.

Today, we need to do what we should have done yesterday and try to have a runoff between two villagers, rather than a pile-on onto one.

vote St. Cronin

I want to hear more from him

Except for DaddyTorgo, who need to be convinced to change his vote to Scoobz when there were already 11 votes cast against him.

I find it interesting that a lot of people are deflecting or accusing, but not making a lynch vote. :D

take a stand...yes you can change it later, but take a stand.

If memory serves, Fouts voted for me because I hadn't shown up yet. I'm not too worried about him voting for me yesterday. It's not like he knew anything about me one way or the other.

It will be nice when we get another dark guy taken out so we can compare the death messages. I agree that it sounds like Scoobz was non-affiliated, but I'm still not sure if I positively believe he was non-affiliated. A comparison message would be nice.

Either way, he was dark and it is good that he is dead. It just makes me nervous when I don't know how many bad teams there are.

So we're not supposed to speculate about people when they're not around?

Um.... Anyone who doesn't think Blade's behavior yesterday was at the very least odd needs to have their head examined.

He was dealing with sorcery but wasn't associated with Sauron. That to me means he was with Saruman.

as far as whether or not i thought blade was putting something odd in his pipe yesterday, i have already said that i did

and as far as speculating about people when they're not around, thats not what i said either...i just said i found it interesting that no one came out against blade until he said he was out for 4 hours

again, i am not defending blade per se......one of the things i like to do in these games is watch for who tries to push either for or against voting for certain players, and people who always want to lynch blade right away always set my alarm bells off.

Saldana seems to be much more confrontational than usual in this game.

Cronin is being unusually quiet. I don't know what to make of it -- RL, or cronin sick of being killed? The latter certainly makes sense to me after his reaction last game.

I am going to disagree with this. His info on page one says he was "on the side of darkness". Fouts info says he was "on the side of Light and the townsfolks". If Scoobz was on the side of Saruman, I think it would say so specifically.

Hey guys,
Just wanted to let you know I let Anxiety know that it would be of benefit to the ww experience if he found a replacement for me this week. Things are getting better with my grandfather but I plan on making many trips throughout the day to the hospital and that may hinder everyone elses' experience in enjoying the game as much as they could.

I'll be looking forward to next time though.

Good luck everybody.

swaggs, i am not trying to be confrontational, it is more of a factor that every time i play, i take alot of my thoughts to the grave with me because i get whacked so fast....this game i am just putting my analysis out there for the team so that when i die, my theories dont die with me.

glad to hear things are looking up for gramps, neuqua...i am sure i speak for everyone that isnt in the thread right now saying our prayers and thoughts are with your family.

lynch you later,
sal

Well for what it is worth regarding the one kill. The rules stated that Sauron’s agents actively seek to serve the forces of darkness and kill all who oppose them. They probably have night kills.

The agents of Saruman are trying to slowly bring Bree into the fold of Saruman through plitical, social and economic manipulation. That would suggest maybe no night kill, but some other power such as turning and likely can affect the agents of Sauron as well. It also says they use sorcery. An Adept uses magic/sorcery so it makes me think the dark adept is linked to Saruman in some way.

also, i am home all day until the week after thanksgiving, so i am able to follow things along and comment on them when they actually happen instead of several hours later when i catch up after work.

I think it is likely one of the dark factions attempted a conversion last night and failed for whatever reason

Out of curiosity why would you think its likely that this would be the outcome? I mean normally we have no idea when a conversion happens.. I can picture a conversion attempt happening fairly early this game, but why would you think its more likely they failed than succeeded?

it's possible they did succed, I was just thinking back to the tombstone game when we tried an early conversion and failed so thats where my thoughts bought me.

Ok, a little more than five hours to go before tonight's deadline. Here's how the voting stands as I see it:

Saldana - 1 (by Chief Rum)
Chief Rum - 2 (by saldana, Alan T)
Blade - 1 (by Izulde)
DaddyTorgo - 1 (by Jonathan)
st.cronin - 1 (by SnDvls)

Id like to hear more from cronin, but he was even quieter then this the final 3 days of the small game, so its not like he suddenly went quiet this game.

Ill start my role-playing back up in a bit, so if it annoys you, oh well

I'll stick with my day 1 vote. If a run-off develops, I'll jump in.

Vote Spleen

vote chiefrum

I've seen this game from him before

What's he doing that you've seen before?

Real life. This game has only been running two days and it's already over ten pages! I don't know how to make sense of everything. I am going to guess that both sal and al are villagers - that's what that sort of thing usually is.

As for Blade, I'm sure he'll be scanned by a seer sooner rather than later - if he turns out bad, we'll know.

So I won't be voting for any of those three today. I also won't vote for Chief Rum just yet.

vote Lathum

I don't like his suggestion that there was an UNsuccesful conversion. It smells like spreading manure to confuse the village.

Latching onto a suspect, casting his vote then not being around to argue his point.

I knew someone would latch onto that. At least I am involved in the discussion. If I was on the dark side would I really say there was a failed conversion?

I have my vote on Chief Rum currently, but to be fair to him every Tuesday and I think Wednesday since the existance of his playing in WW games here he goes to work from like 5am or 6am or something until 9-10pm somewhere, so this isn't like its a wolf move of his, he does it every game. Its his work schedule.

If you want my thoughts about why I voted Chief Rum you can look at my post where I voted for him. Last game he did a similar thing of supporting me early and he ended up evil. My basis for my vote was that he was the strongest supported of mine without having any knowledge of my role.

Similar to the same reasons I found Saldana supporting Blade so much yesterday very odd, I find the same thing true about Chief Rum today. Saldana has explained his actions and even if I don't agree with his opinion of my game play, he has given a plausible excuse for it. A little pressure on Chief should do the same thing I think. I'm curious to why a good guy would blindly go strong for another person in support without knowing my role or allegiance.

Just wanted to be fair about his schedule though, its not like he did a hit and run, its the same schedule he always has.

If i was on the dark side would i suddenly change my entire play style and give everyone a reason to lynch me, which regardless of my alignment, quite a few people look for?

Yet here i am with people like izulde and kwhit calling me out...so lathum, accept the fact the some players dont seem to puch my complex thought into their votes and go back to hating me :p

to put much*

Yes, you sure might.

I will not be jumping on the Rum train for the sake of it at this point. The first vote or two I understand...but Lathum's vote? He just seemed to latch onto Alan's idea, practically word for word. It unsettles me somewhat. Combine that with his suggestions of an unsuccessful conversion...I talked about the fact that maybe they weren't successful last night, but that was in the context of a kill where the target might not find out they were attacked, or any of a number of things Anxiety could be doing. No, right now Lathum is suspicious enough for me to put another vote on him.

Dola, I should actually vote.

VOTE LATHUM

Yeah, seeing that we look for almost any reason to randomly make blade die, I don't think he'd go out of his way to load the gun and put it into our hand.

Blade, I don't hate you.

Alan, I am familiar with CR's schedule but that doesn't change the fact that because of his schedule he does what amounts to a hit and run.

Tyrith- How am I jumping on what alan said? I voted for CR because I have seen him play this way before as a bad guy.

tyrith, point to where i jumped "word for word" on what alan said.

To be honest with you half of what alan has said this game makes no sense at all to me.

I definitely agree with this.

Excuse me, it was not Alan that you were following, it was saldana:

The collection of people that are on Rum right now just make me very leery. And the way Lathum joined in without even mentioning the fact that he was putting a fourth vote on a guy when no one was having any momentum smells of "Let's Make a Bandwagon!" Combonation of circumstances is very fishy. I really should be paying closer attention to what I'm doing, though.

tyrith, all things being equal, i would agree with this, but we have to remember the ruleset for this game....a plurality doesnt do anything...we need a majority to get a lynch, and that pretty much guarantees that we have to have what we would normally call a bandwagon every day until the numbers get lower....from having played with him often, i know lathum is in the "ties (or days without lynches) are a bad idea" camp, so i saw his vote as one that was aimed at preventing a no lynch scenario.

Hrm, true. Stupid majority rule is gonna screw up our voting records for the first couple of days because people can use it as an excuse to vote with the herd.

Well, we do need majority...i would rather vote for alan again despite others backing off, and will vote for alan if chief turns out good as alan likely just deflected the attention from himself to chief, but like saldana said...we need a majority. Yesterday i was not apart of the lynch, today i might as well help out

VOTE CHIEF RUM

the fact that you say you should be paying closer attention throws up flags for me. First you screw up alan and saldana, then throw some accusations at me. Then you claim we are starting a bandwagon when the structure of the game is that a bandwagon is needed for a lynch.

The fact that I am the fourth person to vote for someone ( and I think I was the third) doesn't mean much since we need 8 other people to follow suit.

You are usually very on top of things, I consider you the best "new" player in the game so the fact that you claim you need to pay better attention raises flags all over for me.

:rolleyes:

UNVOTE DaddyTorgo

VOTE Chief Rum

I really have no reason to vote for him, but I'm afraid that if we keep screwing around we won't lynch anyone.

Dola,

I love the arguement I'm going to vote with person X, but if my vote ends up being bad I'm going to vote for person X tommorrow.

Please Blade, don't do me any favors and vote for someone else if you don't agree with my reasoning. I give my reasons for the vote, agree with them or disagree with them but in no way am I compelling you to do something you don't want to do.

Your not, but anxiety's rule set it. I never approve of a no-lynch or ties...never...so since i see no way im getting you lynched, chief(one of your supporters) is the next best choice.

So dont roll your eyes when i state id rather vote you, but its a wasted vote. Yesterday we had the votes where i could throw one away on you(which i did), today i dont see that yet.

I never rolled my eyes because you would rather vote for me. I rolled my eyes for the reason I said in my last post. When you state you are voting for chief rum, your reason is as you just stated: Because Lynching chief rum is better in your eyes than no lynch at all. Your previous reasoning that I am compelling you to vote Chief Rum is nonsense.

Or do you have some inside knowledge that Chief Rum is going to turn up good most likely so already hedging your move tommorrow that Chief Rum's innocence = my guilt?

I think there's way too much emphasis being placed on early bandwagons. I would like to try this: Everybody cast a vote, then we take roll, and THEN ask those who have "wasted votes" to move them onto a candidate with some chance of getting lynched.

That's how I read it.

Let's keep this a two-man (or two-hobbit, as the case may be) race.

VOTE Lathum

I like Mr. Wednesday's vote. I encourage a close race. I have no doubt it will help us down the road since I will probably be an early night kill

I like this idea St. Cronin. At least for tomorrow. I have no good reason to vote for anybody today except to vote for someone with a lot of votes of them so we reach a majority. There just hasn't been enough information or reveals to vote otherwise.

vote Chief Rum

Dodgerchick has agreed to replace Neuqua.

-Anxiety

Not if you get a lot votes.

I'm allowed to screw up, aren't I? I have two tests and a paper this week; I don't have the time to reread things in the manner I might otherwise.

This majority mechanic, with this many people, makes doing good races very difficult. We're looking at a situation where we're either going to just pile on Rum, or we're going to try to start a race with Lathum and have to deal with people moving votes at the very last moment.

As a side note I really don't like this Rum lynch ebcause he isn't around on these days to defend himself -- he could die and be a good role we might get use out of but won't because he can't reveal. Seeing that our reasoning for lynching him is weak I would be of the mind that there were a lot of better places that we could have gone. And some of the early voters had to know this, too.

I'm really confused. I don't really see CR as a prime suspect yet.

Can someone restate the case against him for me? I must have missed it.

My vote today if there was no information from last night that came out was going to be either for you or for him. Both of you came out pretty strongly supporting me which for me is hard to believe a good person without any knowledge of anyone else would be willing to do for the risk of strongly backing a bad guy and then ending up on the lynch block yourself.

I however can see reasons why a bad guy would support a good guy for when I turned up dead due to lynch or night action it would buy you some trust perhaps.

Since Chief Rum spoke the loudest (or perhaps last at least) between you two I voted him. I could have just as easily voted for you however.

Thats my reasons for it. I speak not for any of the other 6 people who voted for him and would prefer they gave their reasons for doing it. We've already seen some try to not take accountability for their actions by saying if the vote ends up bad its my fault.

I don't think there is one. I voted for him because he was leading in votes. I would rather us have a lynch, but I'm beginning to think it won't happen today.

I would like to see us get a majority or at least be close enough to one that it has an affect. I'm not sure how to take CR at this point, so I can go elsewhere if need be or if a better case is made for someone else.

VOTE CHEIF RUM

I want to vote for one of the two leaders tonight--either Chief Rum or Lathum.

I am kind of hanging on Lathum stepping in and defending saldana a little bit earlier today. I know they are friends, but I think that was kind of an odd "reach out" to make in this game, since saldana was doing enough defending on his own. I could move it off if needed, but for now...

Vote Lathum

Vote Lathum

Mainly this is a vote against Chief Rum as being for Lathum. I am not getting a baddie vibe from Rum.

Sorry, it's tough to get in on the discussion, especially when a lot of the previous day's conversation was on stuff far above my head. Add in that this is my first game, I've been pretty hesitant. Another part of this is that I don't have the knowledge of people's playing styles from previous games that most of you guy's do...despite trying to read some of the games, it's tough keeping track of ppl.

There...maybe that'll break the seal for me.

I think the odds he turns up evil are firmly stacked against us, especially considering we got lucky yesterday. Ill be pleasently suprised if hes evil, but im entirely expecting him to come up good and you continue to shift blame from yourself by attacking me over my doubts. The only reason were on chief is becuase you and saldana had a little arguement, then suddenly came out a united front against chief. But, like i said...i can vote chief or lathum, and what i saw last game that made me believe lathum was bad is not what im seeing from him this game. So chief it is

So yes, i quite frankly believe he will turn up good, and you will turn the attention again to someone else. Id love to be proven wrong, but i dont expect to be on this matter. I dont have inside knowledge, i have instinct. My instinct tells me he will turn up good.

I just happen to belive chief coming up good might be just the thing we need, if it allows the group to look at who drove the vote in his direction a little more closely. Im quite possibly wrong about you, but you have stated repeatedly i am not on the side of the village, so you are obviously wrong too. I think that fact will be proven again at the lynch, though i certainly hope its not.

Hmmm... Interesting. And totally misguided.

I am not and was not supporting YOU. I have no idea if you're good, good, bad, or bad.

:)

I was stating my suspicion of Saldana and Blade for their responses to what I took to be general information about the game world of Middle Earth that just so happened to come from you.

I don't know what CR's motivation was, but my comments have simply been of surprise and suspicion of Saldana's and Blade's over-reaction to the comments you made, especially since it appears to me to be a red herring that had the effect of successfully moving the spotlight off of Blade.

So we're voting for CR because he agreed with you? I am not defending CR (and may have to vote for him just to get a mojority) but this seems like a really weak reason to me.

I think Blade, Saldana, or even you AlanT look more suspicious at this point than CR.

If you think Chief is good, then don't vote him. Sheesh

strongly disagree