They had a story on CNN about how one of the zoos (I think in Mississippi) had two dolphins and they loaded them up, transported them to a local hotel pool, treated it so it was salt water, and they were swimming fairly happily.

SI

Ah crap, I didn't even think of the zoo and the aquarium. The New Orleans aquarium is perhaps the best in the nation, hopefully since it was all constructed within the last 15 or so years, its somewhat stormproof, but there is so much glass in its construction, even on the outside... Worse yet the Aquarium is RIGHT on the riverfront.

The Audobon Zoo in New Orleans has also become one of the better zoos in the nation. Its build up a little higher than the surouding area and its well enough run that there are places to shelter most animals in the zoo. Hopefully both survived the storm well enough...

Yes, if the river had overflowed, the zoo would be in deep trouble.

Also, I was just looking at the slides at WWL. Slidell got the shit kicked out of it.

I should have just searched right away. If this article is well informed, Audubon came out pretty good in the storm, the zoo and aquirium are ok, and only animal deaths are flamingos.

http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0830-n..._aquarium.html

I'm feeling very blessed and thankful when looking at the damage in LA, MI, and AL. When Katrina came through South Florida it was a Cat 1 and was much less severe than the storms we got last year. Palm Beach County was especially lucky since she jogged more to South. We got some strong wind gusts and some rain, but we didn't even lose power this time, except for a few times it flicked out and back on (we were without power for about a week and a half at this time last year). My heart goes out to everyone who got slammed by the monster it became out over the gulf.

FOX News is reporting that gunmen have fired their AK-47's at a New Orleans police station.


Edit-- added excerpt from FOX News.

I just got home from buying some extra food and stuff for at the hotel. This is just so sad to see police officers shot, hostages taken, and now AK-47's being fired :(


Edit: Wierd that I referred to the hotel as "home."

You've got a lot of people you care about right there with you ... using the word "home" doesn't seem all that weird to me ;)

Just remember, this is temporary, not permanent.

Mayor what's-his-name is now saying that another levee is about to break and they've stopped trying to plug the 17th street one, the water is expected to rise to 3 feet above sea level all across the city. So a street that is 3 feet below sea level will end up with 6 feet of water.

doesn't look good. doesn't look good at all.

Ya' know, I don't buy the bull Bush is an idiot but...



...but is the best thing to be seen doing if you're the President?

Small firefights in N.O. needs to be taken care of with force. Those yahoos need to be taught a lesson that they dont run the show.

was watching the Texas news channel earlier and I know they said the statewide groecery store chain we have here, H-E-B is getting together in San Antonio and they're trying to find a place near ORleans where they might be able to plug in their huge mobile kitchens, they bring them around to poor communities int he state normally so they're going off to help..they're going to donate a lot of food and gather volunteers from the state and take them out there as well, im going to try to find out about that tomorrow. Im also waiting to see if Cringe's company that he drives for will start up a donation matching, that way whatever money we give we can make it bigger, i know they have companies they go to in some fo the affected areas so im thinking they will. I just cant believe these stupid ppl going around looting and shooting, like i KNOW it happens all the time with these disasters but come on, guess you HOPE soo bad it wont happen this time, that it's a million times more depressing when you see it does, it's just so senseless...I'd love to volunteer, but i cant leave town until my client has her baby, im sure there will still be much to do late next month so id like to then:( it's all very odd to me because I had the chance to go up there earlier this month, just a freak chance that i got asked to go by a friend..glad i took it and was able to see the city before all this happened, but it makes it pretty damn sad..k im done babbling:(

Nice, there's even the Presidential seal on the guitar!

dola - Saw this on Slashdot, and it's pretty interesting! 9 weeks or more just to pump the water out of the city!


http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/nov04/nov04c.html

I remember someone mentioned how was the Children's Hospital? I just heard on the radio that looters had surrounded the hospital and were trying to break in. The administrator said I guess by cell phone that the hospital was locked and secure but Police and national guardsmen couldn't get there do to the rising flood waters. :(

Wildlife and Fisheries workers rescued more than 3,000 people Tuesday, Sen. Mary Landrieu told a reporter.

This is a tiny sentence from one of the CNN stories online, but it's one of my favorite sidebars to the big picture so far.

I heard the director of the W&F division on TV yesterday afternoon & was struck by how common-sense their involvement in the rescue operations has been. I can't quote him, but the gist of it was "we're equipped for this sort of thing, with headlights & such on our boats, we're trained for this in so far as our people are used to working at night & in close quarters, we figured we could help, so that's what we're doing".

I probably don't do that nearly enough justice trying to explain it, the thing that impressed me was that here's an agency that seemed to be saying "here's something we can definitely do ... so let's go DO it". And that sort of common sense understanding of both needs & capabilities just impressed the hell out of me.

Saw this info on that forum that Jim had recommended. The satellite pictures shown are just general pictures, not of specific areas. Warning, takes a while to load up on a slow connection.

hxxp://www.easternuswx.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=48689

Before-




After-

Look at how much wider the rivers are and how the land between the lakes just disappeared.

I'm a bit late getting to this thread, but I'm glad to hear you and yours are OK. Hang in there EF27.

Dola-


Amazing.

Where did the news about the prison riots come from?

Wow, lake pontchartrain ate lake maurepas. I wonder if that will become a permanent feature now? Its something to see such a geographic change in one's lifetime, especially overnight.

Most of two parishes, Plaquemines parish (which was mostly the skinny land mass that lines the river after New Orleans) and St Benard parish (the penisula north of the river/plaquemines and east of NO), look to be totally wiped off the face of the earth.

Can we please cut the political garbage once and for all, folks? Getting sick and tired of the handful of jabs against the President and Conservatives...

In terms of dumbass statements, this certainly takes the cake. The priorities are getting people back and what not - not shooting people trying to get baby formula.

I thought so too yesterday.

Then a police officer was shot in the head by looters, and a band of looters attempted to break into a children's hospital late last night. A children's hospital with patients still locked inside.

Franklin and JIMGA were 100% correct.

(link for hospital story - last story under Aug 30.)

Dola - and the Saints are headed to San Antonio.

Saints to go to San Antonio

Wednesday, 12:50 a.m.

The Saints will fly to San Antonio following their 8 p.m. Thursday game at the Oakland Raiders and will make it their home base for the immediate future, said director of media and public relations Greg Bensel.

Several teams and communities offered assistance, but Saints owner Tom Benson has long-standing ties to San Antonio, his second home. The team evacuated to San Antonio before Hurricane Ivan last year.

The Saints are planning to practice in San Antonio until their season-opener Sept. 11 at the Carolina Panthers.

Where they will play the home opener, against the New York Giants on Sept. 18, is uncertain. General Manager Mickey Loomis and the NFL are looking into potential sites, and that would include college stadiums.

linky

There are rumors on the UTEP board that Tulane may play its entire season on the road this year. If that's true, I hope the teams that gain an extra home game both donate all the profits to Tulane/New Orleans and hold some sort of fund raising event in conjuction with the game...

They're evacuating the Superdome refugees and putting them in... the Astrodome.

via the Associated Press.

That is surreal.

Governor about to hold press conference.

{My next few comments will be from the press conference, if it lasts any length of time}

--Confirming that all in Superdome (approx. 10,000) will be moved to Astrodome.

--Asking President for military presence so that National Guard can be freed up for security

President has authorized army to assist. Ships coming to help evacuation and provide supplies.

Now, the evacuation spokeperson says 23,000 are in Superdome.

Buses are on the way to Superdome now. Hospital patients also to be evacuated.

Purposes of military ships...

• command and control
• "assets" (supplies?)
• housing (mainly of personnel, but could be a last resort for housing evacuees)

How are the buses able to get there? I thought the Superdome was surrounded by water, not to mention all the roads leading into NOLA being submerged as well. I had visions of the evacuation of the embassy in Saigon in '75 (people clinging desperately to choppers and so forth).

My parents are at Children's Hospital and I was very worried when I saw this report. I called my parents at about 1:45 central last night (about two hours after the report was first published), and apparently this story at nola.com was erroneous or at least geatly exaggerated. Security at the hospital is good; there is a SWAT team therel.

Children's Hospital has power, water (even hot water), and food; but it is one of the few buildings with even just one of the those three. So my parents are far more comfortable than most others in the city.

And for EaglesFan27, there is still no flooding in that area, and apparently the water is rising extremely slowly, if at all.

apparently you can still get out (for now) as long as you're heading west. not sure how much longer that will be feasible.

They said that's part of the problem of getting them there. If they've gotten specific about how they're going to get through the water, I haven't heard it. They've gotten bogged down in some very detailed discussion about how the evac is going to happen (names of roads/parishes/townships/etc.), and I haven't paid full attention to that at times.

I'm alittle confused, why are looters trying to gun down and break in to the Children's Hospital?

That'd do it in a place like New Orleans right now.

Oh yeah. But is the hospital not flooded and out of power?

Conference over....total evac may take up to 2 days.

There is still one way out of the city from downtown which has only minor flooding (2-3ft). The buses can cross the river to bypass the flooded parts of lakeview, Metairie, and Kenner. The interstate bridges to the west of the city were not affected by the storm surge.

There are also a great deal of narcotics inside of hospitals. I've heard reports of at least one drugstore looted not for diapers and formula, but for the drugs inside.

Im curious - how many helicopters are available for this evacuation ? Surely they can commandeer private copters from Houston and all for this purpose, correct /

That was my first thought about looters trying to break into the hospital. Power, hot water and such can't be taken and brought with you, drugs can...

FM

Thats what I was trying to figure out.

Fair point. Hadn't considered that junkies would be part of the (what is now becoming) Thunderdome crowd.

I do wonder whether New Orleans is a total loss at this point. I know there will be efforts to rebuild, but is it possible that it might not come to pass? One nightmare scenario to consider is that yet another storm may come out of the Gulf in September and deliver the coup de grace while the city struggles to recover. At this point, even a Cat 1 or 2 may be enough to finish the job.

Also, the alligators and snakes (I've heard sharks as well) in the streets. Thats scary as well.

They're showing some more video right now at wwltv

http://www.wwltv.com/perl/common/vid...props=livenoad

I wonder if the question of should it be fully rebuilt will be considered, actually. In light of the information regarding the 20th-century additions to the levees, I wonder if it shouldn't simply become truly "The Crescent City" once again.

I would think an area with such historical significance as the French Quarter will likely be rebuilt and may effectively be the core of a newer (and probably smaller) city. But if so much is unrecoverable, do people displace around New Orleans, move to Baton Rouge, or what? Also, should agencies raze and remove what can't be recovered if an attempt to reduce the city to it's "crescent" origins is done?

http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8CASVK01.html
... New Orleans' homeland security chief, Terry Ebbert, said looters were breaking into stores all over town and stealing guns. He said there are gangs of armed men moving around the city.

The Times-Picayune newspaper reported that the gun section at a new Wal-Mart in the Lower Garden District had been cleaned out by looters.

Gunshots were heard throughout the night in Carrollton.

Police spokesman Marlon Defilo said an officer and a looter were wounded in a shootout. Defilo had no word on their condition. Three or four others were also arrested, he said.

One looter shot and wounded a fellow looter, who was taken to a hospital and survived.

Staff members at Children's Hospital huddled with sick youngsters and waited in vain for help to arrive as looters tried to break through the locked door, Blanco spokeswoman Denise Bottcher told the newspaper. Neither the police nor the National Guard arrived.

Authorities planned to send more than 70 additional officers and an armed personnel carrier into the city.

On New Orleans' Canal Street, dozens of looters ripped open the steel gates on clothing and jewelry stores and grabbed merchandise. In Biloxi, Miss., people picked through casino slot machines for coins and ransacked other businesses. In some cases, the looting was in full view of police and National Guardsmen.

What this looks to be turning into is a whole lot of prey for a smaller group of hunters.
If this isn't brought under control very soon, I stand by my belief that the aftermath may have a higher death toll than the storm. I feel sorry for the prey, I have no mercy at all where the predators are concerned.

I don't know all the answers, and I don't think anything should be mandated, but I can't escape the feeling that listening to A. Baldwin Wood in the early part of the 20th century was a bad, bad idea.

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/foru...ad.php?t=42188

After reading JonInMiddleGA last post all I can say is "Sick Bastards."

Mayor has suggested to parents that they should enroll their kids in schools in places to which they've evacuated. :(

kill em all i say

A statement that I'll bet is going to make him really popular with the destinations. One that may ultimately make it harder for them to find destinations for the refugees too.

But what is the alternative?

Texas will open up it's schools. That's what their governor just said.

Wwltv is reporting that the water is still rising, and is starting to impact homes that are on "higher ground."

Yea, my family thats evacuated in Houston says Houston schools are already working on ways to bring in evacuated kids.

Something to remember about New Orleans and this situation and the question of if it should be rebuilt is that the city avoided a situation of this magnitude for hundreds of years. I don't see how New Orleans now is any different than if another big one hit San Fran. It would be different if New Orleans flooded like this even every 100 years, but... Hell with more attention to the wetland buffer zones and a little more work on the levees, this wouldn't have happened to this degree at all. New Orleans' situation will never be perfect, far far from it, but don't be so quick to amputate or cut apart a finger just because its badly broken. New Orleans adds culture to this country that no place else can replace, in a land of Mcdonalds and strip malls we can use all of that that we can get.

According to the articles I've read, it has been less than 100 years since they built significantly anywhere but on the higher ground.

Looters in N.O. commandeered a forklift to break into a store.

While I agree to a large degree, realize that the culture of which you speak is submerged under 20 feet of water. Sure, some of that will resurface, but the 'culture' of New Orleans has been changed forever.

One thought (hey, I'm sitting here working, one is all I've had time for on this) might be temporarily double-shifting classrooms, facilities etc. AND use some of the currently unemployed N.O./LA teachers to staff the Louisiana classes. That would serve several purposes -- among them, jobs for the unemployed AND avoiding the cost burden falling on other systems quite so heavily. (although given the response from Texas, I strongly suspect the cost element has already been worked out, either with Louisiana or Federal funding).

And some of that "culture" is also what we see looting, and what we saw unwilling to take shelter as ordered, and unable/unwilling to leave entirely.

That may sound harsh, but it's also the straight truth.

I think people are more resilient than that. Remember all the hysteria after 9/11 about the end of American culture as we knew it (e.g., some pundits even thought that comedy would never be appropriate again)? Sure, some things have changed, but the essential character of NYC resurfaced quickly and the city just kept chugging along. I expect no less from New Orleans in a few years...

The problem is, nothing in south louisiana should exist as it does. This includes places that are relatively higher than others. All of it should be swamp land, home to a river that either expands all over the place distributing setiment in all directions, or home to a river that shifts depositing setiment to different places at different times.

Even if we are to just have a smaller seemingly safe New Orleans, it too will be unsafe one day unless the bigger concept is thought about and treated. And that concept is that the reason south louisiana exists was because of the river doing its own thing and depositing setiment over a wide area for millenia. And now that we have confined that river we MUST address its consequences, the erosion of wetlands. I am fairly confident, that if we had the wetlands we had 100 years ago, and still had the levees we have today, we would not be in this situation in New Orleans today.

But for years and years, for the most part the Federal government has turned a blind eye to wetlands erosion..... And even if we have a smaller higher New Orleans, gradually the wetlands will erode even more, until water is even further knocking down the door to the smaller supposedly safer New Orleans. A line has to be drawn eventually. I am confident ways can be found to protect whats left of the wetlands and coastlines. But I don't think giving up parts of the area as hopeless is the right way to go or the right mentality to take.

Gas stations here are swamped. There are rumors that you will not be able to get gas for a couple of days and that when they do reopen, it will be $4 a gallon.

I also heard a thing on the local radio that evacuees were looking for temp work. There is a common solution to this all. The government should open up hubs in Houston, Memphis, etc and put them to work. They could open up temp schools, etc near by.

Interesting - where would this be ? In LA ? itself ?

Trying to find my relatives who made it to Dallas some jobs right now. Starting me thinking about how many will even go back once the city is habitable again.
But it will be rebuilt. Too much industry there to just walk away.

Remember how I was saying my sister's boyfriend is in the MS National Guard? Well, he did not have to go down to the coast (already doing a tour in Iraq does wonders for getting out of stuff) but he talked to one of his friends down there. Again, this heresay, but the friend said there are dead bodies everywhere. They are washing up, caught in trees, etc. He said the death total in MS alone will shock people. :(

Although it's probably scant consolation, at least you can know you aren't alone on this one.

This is from, and about, Atlanta, http://www.ajc.com/news/content/busi...gasprices.html

Some suppliers are rationing gasoline to retailers, so some stations may already be near empty.

With supplies uncertain, oil companies and larger wholesalers are ratcheting up prices, partly to slow demand. Some local wholesalers already are paying 65 to 80 cents per gallon more than they paid three days ago. That kind of price increase will hit the pumps within a few days.

On Monday, the scare talk was about prices hitting $3 a gallon at the pump. By Tuesday, that line had changed for the worse, said Tex Pitfield, president of Saraguay Petroleum Corp., which delivers gas to retailers.

"Depending on how much damage has actually taken place and the time involved in getting the infrastructure up and running, is $4 a gallon out of the question? Not necessarily," he said.

There are talks in the Quebec media that gas prices are about to jump from 1.094 $cdn per liter to 1.34 $cdn per liter in Quebec City. That is about 4.15 $us per gallon...

FM

edit: as a comparison, 1.09 $cdn per liter is about 3.40 $us per gallon

Something is going down in a Bank in Gulfport. Armed officers are entering the building.

The breach of the levee and the inability to fix the breach has turned this from a disaster into the total destruction of the city.

Live news conference. Update on the 17th street canal's breach:

• 100 sandbags (300 pounds each) put there
• This afternoon more will be dropped from copters
• Levees on lake and river and secure
• Attempting to close at breach
• Attempting to close entrance from lake to canals
• Lake level has equalized with interior water in city, should be no more new flow into city until high tide this evening (half a foot)
• They've ordered more slings for sandbags*
• 1200 concrete barriers are being brought in, 250 have been delivered.

*--Slings get dropped from 'copters WITH the sandbags. They had run out of them.

I've got to run, but the news conference is being shown live on the wwltv site.

I was wondering how long that would take.

80% of NYC wasn't flooded. The damage in Manhattan, while horrific, in no way compares to the damage seen along the Gulf Coast. Yes, people are resilient, and they will bounce back, but the lifestyle that was will never be again, at least not for a very long time.

I think 9/11's economic impact will end up being much greater (a negative effect whereas Katrina may end up bringing positive long-term economic effect due to rebuilding), but the cultural impact of the flooding associated with Katrina will be much, much more dramatic.

Yeah, hasn't anyone seen "Hard Rain?"

Okay, this level of looting is repulsive. I don't like drawing lines in the sand on it, but I think its one thing to try and get food because you have no options other than grocery stores- stealing Jeans and DVD players is a different thing. I recognize there is some level of hypocrisy in this - but they really can't buy food at this point- commerce doesnt seem to be happening.

I don't know why they are happy that the situation with the lake and the flood water has "equalized." It equalized because the lake totally flooded the city. It got as bad as it could get. We lost.

I've already seen debate about whether there'll be any rebuilding in a large part of the Mississippi Gulf Coast. The gist of it was that the area was already so poor & underinsured that the money simply won't exist to RE-build for a lot of the damage/destruction.

Now what you brought up raises, in my mind at least, a point that I haven't seen discussed: there is a difference between rebuilding and new construction.

Maybe what the MS Gulf Coast economy looks like after Katrina is very different than what it looked like before?

Back. Anything new or interesting from the wwltv news conference?

Could make a case for jeans since it is clothing...

A body can survive naked. Can't survive without food and water.

Sure.. ask the people to walk around naked..

My wife just left me a voice mail, telling me to try to find somewhere to fill up the car.
When she picked Will up at school for an dental appointment, the school was trying to find somewhere to fill up the buses ... the biggest gas station in our little town is out of gas & doesn't know when they'll be resupplied.

More than likely I think this is a product of Hooterville being at the low priority end of a very taxed supply chain, but it's still enough to be a worrisome harbinger of things that may be coming.

I wonder if those SWAT teams are going around NOAH as well. In any case, at least your parents and the kids are ok. Our stuff can always be replaced. Thanks for the continued updates (our internet at the hotel was out for the last 3 hours to much consternation on my part.)

Interesting. My wife called about 15 minutes ago to tell me that at a little podunk gas station near her work there were 8 cars at the pumps and 15 cars waiting in line.

To N.O. exiles: apparently text messaging IS working on 504 area code phones.

Another frustrating thing for me is that LSU Medical School is waiting until tomorrow to have a phone conference of all of the department heads. I was strongly contemplating starting to head to NJ tomorrow morning. Should I extend the room one more night now and wait til after that conference?

I'm curious, since you are a resident of the areas affected what are your plans for the next month?

Thanks SD for pointing that out.
I'd mentioned it before, but it's something so few of us think about when regular voice service doesn't work.

/tk

That is true. My MIL realized that the first night we were here. It's 504 area code by the way (I know it was probably just a typo.)