I remember that very well. He was a force of nature out there. He had that intensity early on in his NHL days, but his body (head) just gave out on him. It's really a shame. Sure he was a bit of a spoiled brat and his parents were crazy, but for a while there, when healthy, he was really everything everyone thought he would be: big, strong, talented. The total package. That said, I was still pissed that Lemieux told Lindros it was "his time" after the FLyers knocked the Penguiuns out of the 1997 Eastern Conference Finals. Screw you, Mario, it was Stevie's time!

Guess you haven't seen the 1987 Canada Cup, that is the greatest hockey ever played.

You're not actually allowed to *lift* the Stanley Cup. You can kiss it, hug it, stare at it longingly, pretty much whatever....but the privilege of picking it up and lifting it over your head is sacrosanct, and can only be earned. Phil and the rest of the guys at the Hall of Fame (or wherever the Cup happens to be) make sure everybody knows that. :)

I have seen it on video. It was amazing. But not live, lived in Dallas at the time. Not much hockey going on there. I reckon I should have qualified "seen live."

1987 was the *only* time Mario and Wayne played together on the same team and sure enough, it produced one of the greatest moments in Canadian hockey history, second only to Paul Henderson's goal in 1972.

Cards,

Did you get all four games in St. Paul? The atmosphere for the US vs. Russia game should be thrilling even if some of the Russians like Fedorov aren't playing.

Have to pick it up and drink out of it somehow, right?!

Yep, all 4 games, first row in the upper level was all I could afford, it was about $30 a game.

First row, upper level.

These are some of the best seats in the house. Being a little higher up gives you a better view of what's going on everywhere on the ice. It helps let you see plays as they develope. You have an unobstructed view of the ice (no idiots in front of you) and you can either stretch your legs out or have a nice place to rest your ginger ale right in front of you. I love the first row, upper level. Well done, Cards.

This is pretty good! HB, I've probably been to more games live then you have watched period! :p We all have our preferences, I like 2/3rds of the way up inside one of the blue lines myself. For the WC, we are above one of the defensive circles.

College hockey is <2 months away - Woot!

RPI has a really strong team this year, I think. Scary to think we were this close to getting Zajac suited up last year.:(

Team Russia is falling apart fast....do you think they might bring back Larionov,Krutov and ...uhh...WTF was the last guys name...i forget :(

I think he was the one that got fat while in the NHL and retired.

Hmmm, how is that? He's going to UND, hard to compete against them. The next prize is Brock Bradford and Phil Kessel. The Gophers are getting Zajac's teammate Chucko.

Wow. That's a lot of hockey to be seen live. Mayhap if you total up all those highschool and college games, mayhap.

But from 1988-2000 (my second stint in Michigan) I reckon I watched around 100 regular season games each season (NHL), plus what 50+ play-off games, possibly more? (I watched a lot of HNIC and all play-offs games I could). That's a lot of hockey to see live. ;)

I've been going to hockey games since I was 5, I'm 38, and in the last 15 years I've been to a shitload of HS and College games, so, I would say that probably pretty close.

Maybe I read into it wrong, just sounded like you were talking to somebody that's never been to a game or something. ;)

The KLM line was Krutov-Larionov-Makarov with Krutov being the fat one who only played briefly with Vancouver before going back to Europe.

Whoever is in charge is an idiot for putting Tikhanov behind the bench when clearly he's an old-guard Soviet for whom modern, NHL-based Russians will not play.

But I thought Fetisov was appointed to some Ministry of Sports or something in Russia and would have taken care of this.

A look at the Toronto Geriatrics...
http://www.canada.com/national/natio...463ba83&page=1

A look at the 6 NHL proposals to the NHLPA...
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2655156

dola,

In a Denver Post story I read which wasn't worth linking too in its entirety, Joe Sakic is pessimistic that the season will start. January at the earliest is what he's looking at. He states unequivocally that the players will not agree to a hard salary cap but that a luxury tax would, in his mind, be the best way to go and would also help out small-market teams.

Man, when did Toronto become Detroit South ;)

*reading the second article now*

SI

For those interested, check out some of the names at the Canadian World Juniors development camp in Calgary this weekend... (wow) ...With a lockout, they're guaranteed the top first rounders will be available, (not to mention Crosby) just like the last "dream team" with Lindros, Kariya, Daigle...
http://www.calgaryflames.com/cgi-bin...num=0000000313

dola,

Niedermayer ties for largest arbitration award ever...
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=94711

So, he asked for 9 million a year, was offered 8 million a year, and got 7 instead?!? That's messed up, unless I'm missing something.

No that's right klayman. He wanted $45 million/5 years, Lou offered $40/5 years and ended up with $7 million.

I love this arbitration process, even if I don't understand it.

SI

Interesting article on the off-season process of the UK's, EIHL.
http://www.londonracers.com/news/detail.php?id=221

Boston Globe's, Kevin Dupont on a whole host of hockey matters, including Nylander's bolt to the Blueshirts for an extra $100k in guaranteed money.
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/...uins_approach/

Sad day for international hockey...

Heard this morning that Ivan Hlinka -- MVP of the '76 Canada Cup, and long time coach of the Czech national team (including for the upcoming World Cup) -- died in a car accident last night.

The radio guys were commenting on the eerie similarities between Hlinka and Herb Brooks (also a victim of a car crash). Some years ago, when Brooks was coaching the Penguins, Hlinka was the associate coach and was rumoured to be the one who was actually doing the strategizing.

In fact, Hlinka was the head coach for a year or so. Very sad to hear.

More on Hlinka:


:(

Jason Allison still has a long way to go...
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/h...-7708024c.html

Pronger out of WC....Bouwemeester in for him

TB walks away from Cory Stillmans arbitration hearing result..Stillman won a 3.9 mil settlement.....TB decided to cut him rather than give him the contract...they have traded a 2nd round pick to St.Louis for Vaclav Propal to take Stillmans place.

Stillman for 4 mil? No problem.

Good for TB.

Tampa was smart. Stillman is a decent forward and he can put up some good offensive numbers but I don't think he's worht $4 million. I have never been a big Vinny Vaclav Prospal fan, but he did have a decent year or two in Tampa and at $2.5 million, I think he's an able replacement for Stillman.

I just saw that Gena Lee Nolin (of Baywatch fame) married Cale Hulse. What is it with hockey players? I mean, Ron Dugay and Kim Alexis, Carol Alt and Alexei Yashin [and originally Ronny Greschner], Nedved and his wife, the list goes on and on. I mean, Cale Hulse is what a rugged 3rd-6th defenseman in Phoenix? It's impressive. Wish I learned how to skate earlier and actually had some athletic talent... I'd be gold!

Joe Thornton got $6.75 million from the arbitrator. He was seeking $8 million and the Bruins were offering $5.5 million. And no.... the Bruins are not walking away. ;)

This probably puts Iginla in the $7-8 million range depending on term length.

This was always my downfall too :)

That's why i coach now :D

Great article. Interviews Daly and Saskin, asking the same question with responses from both. You be the judge...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1860314

The Av's sign Vinny Damphousse to a one year $2 million deal. Not bad. I like Vinny. He'll be a nice addition to the Forces of Darkness(tm).

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...66&hubName=nhl

How depressing. Well, let's hope SI gets that new patch out soon because that will likely be the only NHL hockey any of us will be experiencing for quite some time...

I've said it once and I'll say it again: This is just too eerily similar to the baseball labor situation. This is going to get really bloody.

SI

I've heard one prediction saying this will be the longest work stoppage in sports history...

I think i'll ultimately be happy with this, but right now Vinny is still the guy who effectively knocked the Avs out of the playoffs with his goal off of Aebischer's back in Game 3.

Here's an ESPN analysis of the World Cup:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/worldc...ory?id=1863188

~~~~~

The Canadian World Junior development camp ended with a scrimmage yesterday in Calgary, Team Red versus Team White. What transpired was a thing of beauty and I wish I had seen it live. Here's how someone who was there described it:

Here's what appeared to happen. Phaneuf hit and/or badgered Crosby a few times in the game previously (during play and after the whistle). On this incident, for whatever reason (Phaneuf was assessed a high-sticking penalty which I didn't see) Crosby gave Phaneuf a little stick to the groin after the whistle. To this, Phaneuf proceeded to shove down Crosby's head and crush his torso right in front of the gate to Crosby's bench. The nearby red team all came after Phaneuf, especially Colin Fraser who it seems was initially on the bench. After exchanging some blows with Phaneuf from the bench Fraser, who was right beside the gate anyway came onto the ice for a bonafide fight. Phaneuf controlled the fight easily but seemed to let up a little on the punches aimed for his buddy. Both went sent off on game misconducts and happily joined the team at games end for pictures. But it seems like Phaneuf doesn't like Crosby or maybe just wants to let him know that he can't get away with his petty stuff. FWIW, Crosby didn't look great at all the entire game.

Final score: White 7 Red 1

What the above quote doesn't make clear is that Phaneuf and Fraser both play for the Red Deer Rebels. Meanwhile, coach Brent Sutter was watching everything - the owner, GM and coach of the Red Deer Rebels. He didn't seem at all upset that two of his players went at it. It's better they do it now than during the tournament where fighting is illegal.

For as long as I've been following the Flames (~20 years), I don't remember any prospect being hyped to the extent of Phaneuf. People have been saying he's the next Scott Stevens, he's the best defenceman not playing in the NHL, he was NHL ready one year ago and that he'll be the Flames best defenceman in three years. No pressure, eh?

The lockout hurts his development though. Because of some games played rule, he can't play in the AHL which means his only option would be to play in the WHL again as an overager (20). He doesn't have anything left to prove there and it may actually stunt his development. Ideally he'd be playing in the AHL for a year. Signing him to a contract now makes no sense though.

It's interesting that since the 2003 draft where Suter was the first defenceman taken, followed by Coburn and then Phaneuf, Phaneuf's development has accelerated. Another reason why in an ideal world, there should be a 20 year old draft.

Reports out of Toronto are Belfour is going to have back surgury which means if the season starts on time he won't be playing.

Should we start a pool here for when we think the lockout is going to end? (should we wait until it starts or is it inevitable)

SI

After watching him play over the last two years, I gotta agree. He is easily my favorite player to watch outside of the NHL, and in the Stevens/Chelios mold of defensemen. Now if only he could find a way out of that crappy organization that drafted him, then he'd really be something.;)

It'll be really fun to watch the kids of the Flames and Oilers over the next few years. People are really sure though that the Oil will regret taking Dubnyk over Schwartz though. Only time will tell...

From another message board, here's an interesting comment from someone who doesn't throw crap out there to see if it sticks:

I have it on good sources that ten of the 30 teams want a $20 million cap. That's the extreme on one side of it. Two of those ten teams are Canadian. You heard right, $20 million cap. There's also about 14 teams that would accept a cap anywhere within 30-40 or so and six teams that are keeping their mouth shut through the whole ordeal.

Assuming this is true, you've got to figure the two Canadian teams that want a $20 million cap are Calgary and Edmonton. Of the six who don't care, it's probably Toronto, Detroit, Philadelphia, NY Rangers, Dallas and Colorado.

But I'm surprised 10 teams would be pushing for such a low cap.

SI, I think it's safe to start the pool now.

I would be surprised if Edmonton would want a $20 million cap. They would have to get rid of people. I would think they would prefer $30 million.

that would be a little bizarre, considering NO NHL team was under $20 million last year. only 5 were under $30 M...

A $20 M cap would allow some of those teams to make money since the Oilers are not making money with a $34 M payroll, AFAIK. Still, a $20 M cap is unrealistic, considering the average salary is just over $1 M. You wouldn't even be able to field a 20 man roster, nevermind 1 or 2 superstars, without some extreme and drastic change in the salary structure. While I'm all for that, if that's what the owners are holding out for...well we won't be seeing NHL hockey anytime soon.

not only that, but I think if there was a $20 M cap (no way in HELL this will EVER happen, btw), I bet you'd see some top stars bolting for Europe.

The Oilers would have to restructure all of the contract extensions they've signed over the past couple of seasons to get down to a $20 million payroll. If they were putting forward such a plan, I can't see Kevin Lowe being behind it.

The NHL could only get to a $20 million cap by dissolving the league and making each franchise charter members in a new hockey league that does not have a player's union.

It's just something I heard that was a little different from the rest of the stories out there.

I still expect something like a graduated luxury tax starting at $40 million.

I also expect that one season will be lost. That should be enough for both parties to assess the damage and then finally be willing to compromise. So my vote is for a new CBA sometime after January 2005.

If any part of the season is lost, they are going to be hurting even more from a financial standpoint. Lose an entire season and it will be an uphill battle to get any kind of attention. It would fit the NHL and their history to blow it now, although this one hangs entirely on the NHLPA right now as far as I care (the league has made at least 6 different proposals, and the NHLPA has made zero).

The TV revenue issues would have long since been resolved if they had not made that insane jump to Sportschannel America.

I'll guess on a $30 mil cap with some sort of Bird rule in there to appease the superstars.

Do people read this thread?

:rolleyes:

Over 4000 views and counting. Thanks for stopping by.

I think the real question is are there people that don't read this thread?

only the cool ones

The World Cup exhibitions start today. Canada vs. USA in Columbus.

You can listen on-line here:
http://www.1460thefan.com/tf.php

Pre-game starts 4:30 MT/6:30 ET.

I cannot believe there is no TV coverage of this game. It boggles my mind. I am pissed.

It's on LeafsTV. :D

If I could subscribe to LeafsTV I would do it right now just to watch the game but of course, it's only available in Ontario.

Excluding Ottawa.

too bad - with all the Leafs fans there, they'd make a killing.

I just got back from the game here in Columbus, and it was enjoyable to see USA beat Canada, 3-1. Here's a few of my observations:

- I had great seats, 3 rows behind the USA bench, you could tell the guys were fired up early on.

- The crowd was disappointed that Lemeiux didn't dress tonight (considering I saw at least 25 of his jerseys, and Pittsburgh is only 3 hours away)

- Canada's D really needs to step it up, as they just let USA take shot after shot after shot, doing a poor job of getting it out of the zone. J-Bo played some tonight, and I didn't think he played too bad

- The Int'l Grind Line of Doan-Maltby-Draper did their job, leading Konowalchuk getting into it with Draper (I believe) in front of the USA bench, with a nice little scrum happening.

- The Sakic-Iginla-????? (person is slipping my mind at the moment) line didn't create any chances at all. Sakic didn't make any passes, and Iginla did nothing with the puck.

- USA played hard for 60 minutes, got tough play from Guerin, Gomez, Rafalski, and some others and deserved the win. Canada's only goal came on a PP, but they didn't look too impressive.

- It was awesome to see these an "All-Star" game, but with these guys giving it their all, even in an exhibition game. I'm thinking about getting some tickets for the Friday night game against Russia.

Did anyone listen on the radio? Just wanted to see what everyone thought of the CBJ radio guys.

Well, a lacklustre effort for Canada with only 3 shots in the third. Brodeur looked sharp, however.

I can't believe the fans from Vancouver who called in the post-game show. Bertuzzi was the reason we lost. Take Lemieux or Iginla off the team for Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi's 250 lbs. can carry the team, Iginla's 210 can't. Bertuzzi is the best player in the world.

Holy rose-coloured glasses, Batman.

I enjoyed it. It was nice to see them fired up.

Gagne was the third man on the Sakic-Iginla line. It was a line that clicked in the Olympics in Salt Lake.

dola,

Losing Blake and Pronger hurts big time. Bouwmeester, Hannan and Brewer are just not up to snuff. (I'm gonna get it from klayman now.)

hehe...however, I agree. The d-men are our biggest question mark heading into the tournament. Scotty can only play some 30 mins a game, and after that, there's not much in the way of superstars (although they are all very good players)

Btw, what did you think about the Kiprusoff arbitration award?

A 269% increase seems a touch much. What's more disturbing is the tone coming from both Kipper and his agent, Larry Kelly. It was an acrimonious process and it seems Kiprusoff is now upset at the way he was characterized by Sutter in the arbitration process.

Initially Sutter offered $4.5 million/2 years but that was rejected. Kipper wanted $4 million/year. Sutter then withdrew that offer and presented a case in arbitration for a $1.4 million/1 year contract. That just pissed Kelly off. He proceeded to antagonize the situation by making comments to the media like "They expect him to cure the bubonic plague." (paraphrased)

So although they got a huge raise, it's off the $4 million/year they were looking for and they're not happy.

For those who won't be able to catch the Wednesday (rematch in Ottawa, i believe) game or the Friday (USA v. Russia in Columbus) game on TV, the Blue Jacket guys will be doing the play-by-play again for both of these games. I'll be tuning in on both days, as it seems they're bringing their A game on the radio.

Here's the website: 1460 TheFAN

somehow, I missed hearing about the passing of Ivan Hlinka...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=96118

Wrong answer.

The players made the first proposal, months ago, while hockey was still being played. Among other things it included an immediate 5% rollback of salries for all players, a luxury tax like MLB's which would have distributed in the neighborhood of $200 million, and more restrictions on entry level salries and bonuses. Bettman and his asshats didn't even bother to respond.

As long as the owners won't accept anything other then a hard cap, this thing will not get fixed. I used to have hope, I don't anymore.

Were you on a bender that week? :D

I wish!

Looks like Leopold is out of the WC after suffering a concussion on Monday night.

That's Leopold's third notable concussion. His first was in the USHL, the second came from Edmonton's Dan Cleary in an exhibition game, and the third came last night from Ryan Smyth.

Fuck those Oilers!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

dola,

The WHA is offering Crosby $7.5 million ($2 million guaranteed)...
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Ottawa...25/600722.html

The NHL should dump the Olympics in favour of World Cups (I agree)....
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2686750

Flashing goal posts to end all controversy (check out the videos)...
http://www.litnets.com/article09_30.html

Leopold played as part of the USNDTP that played a series of games against USHL opponents. Just want to clear that up abit.

I want the NHL'ers to stay part of the Olympics, otherwise the Gophers are going to be one hurting team during Olympic years.

Another former Gopher Paul Martin(NJ) in for Leopold.

Hockey?

Come on up, Next weekend we have WC games Thursday and Friday, and then we can go check out the HS'ers in Elite League action on Saturday and Sunday. All within a half hour of my house!

In my mind those nets are a great idea. I might tone down the lighting a bit, but just the idea of a sensor in the puck and the posts ending all the "was it across the line" controversy seems like a great idea.

Awesome!

What I really want is a demo showing me this can take away controvesial goals.

SI

I agree.

Anytime you want to come up, my casa, your casa. Probably won't happen with all those kids you keep spitting out, but, keep the dream alive brother! You need to come see the Gophers in Mariucci!

My money is on Eddie breaking the first one of those. :D

SI

US National Development Training Program ?

Is this like Canada's Program of Excellence, where all the best junior players come together once a year for a development camp? There are no games against teams though.

Sorry, I switched those letters around. US National Team Development Program. It's in Ann Arbor. They take the best US kids they can get to come there and have them play together. The teams there play in the U-17 tournaments and such. Some kids don't go that route, depending on their HS options or USHL options.

At the time I had just finished an article that claimed the players had never made a proposal. You're right that they did. How can you say that the NHL has not responded when they made 6 proposals since then? That sounds like a response. According to the NHL, not all of them contain hard caps either. Sounds like you've got a wrong answer too, buddy.

I may have, I'm pretty fucking far from perfect. I've yet to see where the owners have made a proposal of any kind that doesn't mention a salary cap, if you've got a link, I'd love to read it.

I hear Trevor Lindon on the radio quite a bit here (he's the head of the NHLPA) and he's never mentioned anything like that. Of course, the source is biased, but he's always been known as a straight shooter.

It's just my opinion, but if the owners know the players will not accept a cap under any circumstance, I don't consider a proposal that contains one legitimate, I consider it spin so they can tell the public that they're "talking"

Just curious, by why do you feel that way about the owners' proposal but not the same way about the players'? The owners have been just as adamant about "cost certainty" needing to be part of any deal, so why is it a serious offer when the players propose something that doesn't take that into account?

I guess because I don't believe "cost certainty" aka a hard cap is necessary.

Personally, I believe the current CBA is a great one for the league. I don't trust Gary Bettman one whit, and I have a hard time believing the numbers the head office is putting out in terms of offers.

I think a plan such as what the players proposed would work very well, at least as a starting point. Unfortunately, Bettman has promised the owners a cap and it's going to ruin the league.

Read the Q&A, All-Star.

http://nhlcbanews.com/news/meeting072104.html

Q: Were they six different possibilities or one?

Bill Daly: Yes, they were six different possibilities. They are all fundamentally different concepts.

Q: Do they all include a salary cap?

Bill Daly: No.

Nice. You always this rude?

Thanks for the link.

Edit. I have trouble believing that since it flies in the face of everything Bettman has ever said, but so be it.

No, we just seemed to get off on the wrong foot.

It may be difficult to believe. It is also difficult to believe that Trevor Linden, despite being a great and seemingly loyal player, is not coloring things a different way than an impartial participant would (I'm sure that Bill Daly blurs the truth as well, but the question about a salary cap seems rather black & white). The problem stands...the NHLPA has made one proposal (was it 15 months ago? I read a reference to it being that long ago), while the NHL has made 6. The NHLPA refuses to budge from their first offer and has not, according to published reports, responded to any of the 6 proposals from the league.

I want to blame both parties, but it *seems* clear that one side has already given up the idea of negotiating. You don't negotiate by making one offer and sitting on it.

I posted an article earlier that outlined all six proposals. I believe two of them didn't involve a salary cap.
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2655156

I know people don't believe owners are losing money but there's a lot of legitimacy and credibility to the Levitt Report which says 19 teams lost money and the league as a whole lost approximately $275 million. Arthur Levitt has an open door policy to Goodenow to discuss it in detail and answer any question but Goodenow has declined to date. Meanwhile, the NHLPA has yet to explain where Levitt has gone wrong in his analysis or provided one of their own.