Those people were always going to vote Repube. Kamala and Walz aren't swaying them, they need to sway those that weren't engaged because Biden was too old, Trump too crazy and nothing in between. Undecideds, independents and the uninterested finally got an option to commit too that wasn't old or crazy.

Hey, JD Vance, what makes you smile? #AI pic.twitter.com/oxx1YZFfnf

— The Daily Show (@TheDailyShow) August 8, 2024

Yes, but we're talking about Republicans giving Republicans (or independents who favor Republican policies) reasons to come out to vote for Trump. The name of the game, at the end of the day, is turnout. This is casting a wide net, not just for people who are definitively going to vote, but those who aren't or if they do, might pick RFK or another 3rd party looney as some sort of protest vote. My brother falls in the latter category, for instance.

JD Vance seems like Ron DeSantis if he had even less self-awareness about how awkward/cringy he came off to people who are not Trump's base.

Not necessarily, and I realize it may be new to "pundits," but this "Wizard of Oz" was a thing among a fair number of my associates back in Georgia dating back to 2016. I had one conversation with an old friend in 2016 that I distinctly remember in detail, because of how his thought process evolved over time. In 2016 "Melvin" called Trump a "reprobate" and said that in his view the Supreme Court was the most important thing, and that he didn't even trust Trump with that, but (pretty sure this is a direct quote) "I don't know who Trump would put on there, but I KNOW who Clinton's gonna put on there, so I'm voting for Trump."


For context, "Melvin" and the GREAT majority of my close friends down in Georgia are like me: biblically-conservative Christians who supported Rubio in 2016--before he bowed the knee. (I know it may be hard to remember, but in 2015 and early 2016 he was the clear leader in the "Compassionate Conservative" lane.) Most of them said they went third party in 2016. The ones that didn't pretty much lined up with Melvin: "can't stand Trump, but Supreme Court."


Fast forward to summer 2020. Because I was the most long-term/present black guy in our crew back in the day, everyone wanted to get together to hear my perspective on BLM, George Floyd, etc., so when I was down there for July 4th that year, we had a long gathering to talk and pray. Inevitably, the Trump Bible-raising incident came up, and "Melvin" jumped into the conservation with "That was the last straw for me, even though he's been great with the Supreme Court and judges. I'm writing in Mike Pence." As mentioned earlier, some of the had voted for Trump in 2016, but the ones that had all said they were done with him as well. (One did change his mind not based on politics. He probably cares about college football more than anything else, and Trump moving toward "opening up the country" more than the Dems caused him to vote for Trump because he didn't want the 2021 season to be "ruined" like 2020. Ironically, he by FAR the most vocal/aghast in our text chain within a day or two of the 2020 election when Trump started whining about election interference, saying how embarrassing an unbecoming it was and that he needed to just concede and move on. Point being, not exactly a hardcore Trumper...and holy COW, the things that people will vote based upon....) Anyway, "Melvin" confirmed to me and others that he wrote in Pence, can't stand Biden/Harris, but has zero regrets about helping them win Georgia by not voting Trump.



Bottom line: Trump acting like this doesn't necessarily switch reliable R votes to D votes, but I've seen how it can switch reliable R votes to write-ins/third parties.

Part of Ben's post made me wonder what, exactly, is "compassionate conservatism" these days?

Let's take Marco Rubio. There's nothing in his political positions that indicates compassion, except a religiosity that suggests compassion.

He's against the legalisation of marijuana and in favor of increased penalties for drug crimes, even minor drug crimes.

Although he has made some minor noises around gun control, his voting record is heavily pro-gun.

He is very pro-deregulation and praises companies that exploit workers while being anti-union.

He's a hardliner on closing the border and, among other things, wants to slow the entry of refugees into the United States.

He has called for Israel to use "disproportionate response" in the Gaza Strip. Also: "On CNN, Marco Rubio responded to a question from Jake Tapper about civilian casualties in Gaza by saying, “I don’t think there’s any way Israel can be expected to coexist or find some diplomatic off-ramp with these savages…. They have to be eradicated."

He voted against the Violence Against Women act, opposes abortion rights even in cases of rape or incest, and believes strongly that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

He votes consistently to overfund the Department of Defense and cut funding to the Department of Education (with a goal of eliminating it altogether).

Someone help me out here. What does "compassionate conservatism" mean? Did it ever mean anything?

Damage is already done. The focus of Evangelicals was taking away the rights of everyone but Christians.

I'm sure he sleeps fine at night knowing the Supreme Court is ready to annoint Trump as a supreme dictator free of any restraint, the subjugation of women, removing any protections to the environment, destroying public schools, allowing corruption, etc...

But I'm sure a bible in every school will fix everything.

Compassionate because they strive to force everyone to live by the same rules as their "biblically-conservative" worldview...hence saving them?

Yeah, that's a bit flippant, but I'm really not sure these days either. If Ben's definition of "biblically-conservative" is akin to what I imagine my FIL's to be, it's a lot more of "these are things that God says you can't do" than actually, well, showing anyone compassion or doing anything to help them. This is not to say that churches don't help (food drives/kitchens, shelters, etc.) but I'm going to venture that the percentage of folks who actively participate/support such ventures is a minority.

I'm an Atheist so I probably don't have the best perspective on this, but I feel the problem with Christian Comservatism right now and trying to define it is it's been infiltrated by MAGA beliefs that find the teachings of Jesus as "too woke". Additionally, with that, we've seen an uncomfortable merger of politics and religion on a level we really haven't seen in our lifetimes. Larger congregations have become outwardly political because they know no one has the balls to challenge their 501c3 status.

The smaller congregations are the ones that are typically doing those good things you mention. They don't have the ability nor rhe desire to speak out against the congregations that have moved away from religion and more toward being a Sunday political gathering.

So with all of that, asking someone like Ben what Christian conservatism is and asking someone that's MAGA what it is will get you 2 opposing and conflicting answers.

This kind of story literally killed Brian Williams's career on the Nightly News. For Trump, it's just another, meh

TrumpÂ*said he ‘went down’ inÂ*helicopter ‘emergency landing’ with former San Francisco mayor, who says it never happened | CNN Politics

I don't have the experience to talk too much, but it is distasteful to me how the more political the discussion/argument, the higher the hypothetical military and individual soldier ascend into unquestionable sainthood.

For sure many, many great men and women have served this country with amazing sacrifice and courage, and even more have done so unremarkably, but still with honor....but the armed forces also have a long, storied history as a literal haven for criminals, sociopaths, rapists and inveterate dipshits. It is hard for me to take all the jingoism and puffery seriously when military service gets suggested as some kind of league of superheroes.

There's basically no such thing any more in the Republican Party how I'd use that term. I'm sure many of y'all have seen this, but...





What does compassionate/biblicalconservatism look like to me today?

My buddy "Melvin" from above. Late 50s white male. Born and raised in Columbus, GA. Upper middle to upper class. Former youth pastor. He was a criminal justice major in college and is 100% convinced that the most practical way to reduce crime is to work with at-risk/underprivileged children and youth in the realm of education, job skills, leadership development, etc. Board member (and I'm certain also a major donor) of an organization that works with poor, mostly minority kids to enhance educational opportunities.


It's the church we are a part of in Greensboro. Holds to what most on here would call a "conservative/very conservative" ethic around marriage, family, etc. Also has one of--if not the--largest welcoming ministry to refugees in the area. (Greensboro has a shockingly large refugee community, especially from East Africa.) Even has a farm ministry that grows East African crops, because culture matters to people. Pours thousands of dollars into partnership with a group of churches and Compassion International in Rwanda. Delivers food and provides rides to work for dozens (hundreds?) of refugee families.



It's MercyMed in my old home town, where a board-certified physician has spent his entire career choosing to make FAR less $$$ than he could have, instead opting to run non-profit medical clinics providing services to the poor and underserved. (I've known the founder since I was around 15, and the founder's older brother was one of my groomsmen in 1998, and hosted the aforementioned gathering in July 2020.)


It's the baby boomer extremely prominent lawyer from my home town who put his "stamp of approval" on my mixed-race wedding in 1998--not a popular position among his peers at the time--by not only throwing a huge party for it, but MCing the rehearsal dinner. And it's the same dude in 2017ish basically daring any of the MAGA types in our home town to say a word when he plastered pics of his daughter, son-in-law, and their adopted black daughter ALL over social media. (That may not sound like a big deal, but he's 75. I assure you, it was a HUGE near-scandolous deal.)


It was the appeal of the 2013ish Republican "Autopsy," that provided a supposed blueprint for the part moving forward: more engagement of minorities, less focus on social issues, return to Reagan/Bush style positions on immigrations, etc.

...and then Trump happened.
Just a moment...

The only people Jesus EVER called out for "doing bad things" were religious leaders. He definitely didn't expect Gentiles to act like Jews. I don't expect people who don't claim to follow Jesus to act like they follow Jesus. That's just dumb.

This. One of the pastors who performed our wedding 26 years ago is now serving here in Greensboro. He's had MAGA folks leave his church over him preaching straight from the beatitudes. No "wokeness" whatsoever in this guy. HE IS FREAKING PCA! For those unaware, the PCA/Presbyterian Church in America across the board is probably the most......trying to find the right words here..."preach it the EXACT way the Bible teaches it" sort of "doctrinal purist" denomination there is. People probably think of Southern Baptists that way, but because of the way they're governed, there is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more latitude within individual congregations to take a more liberal or conservative interpretation of the Bible in the SBC than there is or ever will be in the PCA. They. Toe. The. Line.
The bottom line for me is that we're talking about people who claim to be Christians...but if they find their political opinions in conflict with the teachings of the Bible, their political opinions win, and as best as I can tell, they're not even ashamed or introspective about that fact.

That's my parents in a nutshell. Devout Catholics, everything in life revolves around religion or making everything about religion, but they love Trump, detest immigrants, talk down minorities in general (those they don't personally know), love to gamble, etc. Zero self-awareness of many things, one of them being their self-professed "life of Christ" juxtaposed by how they actually live their lives.

I just happened to be with them the day Biden stepped aside for Harris. They had to run home and put on Fox News to be bombarded with all the crap so they could literally seethe with contempt sitting on the couch. Mom had to throw out the "dumb black bitch" comment as the commentators were talking about her.

My brother and I talk all the time about what miserable people they have turned into. It's pretty sad. I definitely trace it back to the early/mid-90s Rush Limbaugh shows.

That's weird.

Sources say the former president’s flight was diverted to the Billings-Logan International Airport, and that it’s unlikely he will be flying into the Bozeman airport at this time. The president’s motorcade is no longer here at the airport.

— Bryanna Carroll (@BryannaNBCMT) August 9, 2024

I mean really that's why we have so many different Christian sects/denominations in the first place.

All of this speaks to why non-Christians shudder when they hear how passionate Christains are about saddling us all with the values they obviously and constantly neglect.

So who is "Melvin" voting for this year?

The people that amaze me are the ones who swore off Trump but are now all in again. My in laws are very republican, my mother in law is very MAGA although she hides it (no shirts, flags, etc....) but my FIL swore off Trump after 1/6. Now when I go to their house Newsmax is ALWAYS on so I suspect he is back in the fold.

Trump just put a $23.8 million dollar ad buy in Georgia. I believe they may be worried a little bit about Georgia.

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He's going to have a Bob Pirsig style breakdown?

Mechanical issues. Supposedly with the plane, not his brain.

now send money

Wouldn't it be ironic if the day after making up a story about being involved in an air disaster he actually was involved in an air disaster?

The only time I ever watch TV with ads is sports. Living in a battleground state it’s going to be very, very hard to watch football until after November 5th. I was just at restaurant with a lot of TVs and even with zero volume the sheer number of political ads was overwhelming. It doesn’t help that my wife works for a candidate running for Senate, which just makes it harder to really ignore.

I have had a Harris commercial every break watching the Olympics on Peacock.

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It's part of it, but I don't think it's even the largest factor. There are a lot of doctrinal disagreements that have nothing to do with politics whatsoever.


Yep. All you have to do is compare Ben to Jon and understand that, as Jon has said himself, a lot of Christian conservatives think he's too liberal.

As a rule, I don't do the bumper-sticker thing for various reasons, but I'm pondering getting a Harris one and seeing what the reaction is from the church I attend. I don't think they'd remove me from the membership, but it would definitely not be a popular POV and would likely upset some people. Politicking from the pulpit absolutely doesn't happen, and most of the time people know when to park it, but there is an 'under-the-radar' mindset that sometimes bubbles up in things like prayer meetings.

So have I, and I'm in KY.

he could make up another story then about how he fixed the plane and saved them all

I have to say this is one of the great things about living in Illinois.

Jersey!

Havent seen one

I can't wait to see the images on Twitter from blue checkmarks of Trump carrying a plane on his back.

With the hand of God helping just to keep the evangelicals happy

Eh, those people like Trump. They just don't want to admit it because it's looked down upon in certain social circles. It gives them an out if he loses or does something terrible.

Even on the issues you mentioned, there isn't much difference in say Biden and Trump. Biden isn't targeting anyone's 2nd Amendment rights. He hasn't put up much of a fight on abortion. And he's perfectly fine with tax cuts for the rich. Outside of some social issues, the platforms of the two major parties are eerily similar.

Like I'd love to hear any of these people who "held their nose and voted for Trump" actually explain what issues forced them to vote for him over Biden. What in their life did they see changing with Biden in charge over Trump? You won't get a real answer. Just some vague bullshit about socialism or some other crap because they're too cowardly to just admit they like Trump.

Their digital ad spending is way down and they don't even have field offices set up in important states. It's a big ad buy, but you have to wonder where all their money is going outside of TV spots.

I still get the idea that the family is just draining the coffers and banking on some rogue election officials not certifying the election and tossing it to SCOTUS. He's just not running a serious campaign.

They did reopen offices in Georgia just this week. Not saying the family isn't grifting, because they obviously are, but they have started actually spending money on the campaign.

Trump tells a story of a helicopter crash that nearly killed him and that Willie Brown was on the helicopter and told him terrible stories about Kamala Harris. The New York times writes a story debunking the claim, with Willi Brown denying it ever happened. Trump, as per his usual, is threatening to sue for slander saying he has proof. Then a Los Angels city councilman has come out saying that it was actually him. He commented, "I guess we all look alike."

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Just a moment...

Yeah and it was around 35 years ago. I'm sure Kamala Harris was a big topic of discussion.

Yeah, at the time, she was graduating from UC Hastings law school, where she was President of... wait for it... the Black Law Students Association.

Doubling down on the helicopter story despite the person he is claiming to have been on the helicopter with saying it never happened.

In the FAKE NEWS story done by the Failing New York Times on Willie Brown and his little helicopter ride with me many years ago, there were “Logs,” Maintenance Records, and Witnesses. There was also a story on “Willie and Me.” Why can’t the Radical Left Failing New York Times…

— Donald J. Trump Posts From His Truth Social (@TrumpDailyPosts) August 10, 2024

Unfortunately this veers back into presumption. I personally worked with people who chosen Trump over Biden at the last moment before the election and did so specifically due to the gun issue, based on things Biden actually said and proposed. It's every bit as much a real answer as you get from many voters in many campaigns, which often just comes down to feel rather than anything substantive (i.e. voting for incumbents when the economy is good irrespective of any actual economic policies contributing to that, one candidate or another just 'connecting' better, and so on)

lol

Then they're idiots and liars because Biden's gun policy has been known for longer than the last moments before an election. Maybe they don't realize they're lying, but they are

This is the real story though. Good line in there.

The other Black politician who says he was with Trump in that near-fatal chopper crash

There is definitely a contigent who likes to act outwardly that they begrudgingly vote Trump due to some nitpick about the other candidate but deep down they really do like him and how he lets them feel ok to be racist, sexist, etc..

The primary rationalization I see when you point out the major flaws trump has is, "They're all the same. I hate them all. They do the same thing trump does. He's no worse. Biden lies. Harris lies. You can't trust anything any of them say," so no matter the flaws he has, or the words he's spoken there's always a qualifier that makes it ok.

I was wondering this too. I guess it's nice that Melvin and others aren't racist -- that's a lot more than can be said about a lot of folks. But is the court thing fixed -- was it mostly about abortion -- or do they still have to work on other "traditional family" issues (limiting rights of women, taking away rights of LBGTQ+, establishing that sex outside of marriage -- and much inside marriage -- is not to be done)? Among the other things flere pointed out (dismembering public education, etc).

There are some people who view economic/tax policy as their single issue. Some people just don't care about the bigger picture. They just want what benefits them. They'd prefer someone other than Trump but whatever he does to others is not going to affect them. They just want the benefit of what comes from GOP in power. And there's a decent group of people for whom that's an economic issue, not culture war or religion or immigration.

Truth social had just $835k in revenue last quarter and lost $16 million.