1. I can see your point. However, it needs to be the same rules for Obama. If his wife speaks for his campaign, she is fair game. If he puts his family on television (was it Entertainment Tonight?) and in one of the celebrity magazines, they become fair game. Obama can't complain and tell the media to leave his wife alone if she is going to get out front.

2. I just get the double standard feeling off that (if it were a man, it would be no problem) as well as the idea of a working mother. Just my gut feeling.

Off-topic, I really miss Tim Russert.

If so, I'll go ahead & call that one a mistake beforehand. It isn't going to resonate outside urban areas, I'll bet my hat (and considering how rapidly my hair is vanishing lately, that's a pretty serious risk for me to take).

You'd think a true social and economic liberal would be proud to wear marxism as a badge of honor. Power to the working class, baby!

Well it may solidify that base, right? And I wonder if a majority of community organizers aren't women? I dont know but Im guessing there.

As for the vote, what is with the "Others: 5"?

Solidify that base? I bet they are out of their boots for Obama already.

You mean there is a real job title out there called "Community Organizer?"

I would hate to be in their shoes.

I think Guliani(sp) was the most convincing speaker of the night. He has me questioning my Obama vote....well not really but it was very entertaining if you are pro-McCain or on the edge.

Ron Paul, I imagine. But the networks would rather not indicate that, lest it give him any attention.

1. No problem from me there. Obama's wife is more fair game even to me, because she would be the first lady.

2. Perhaps there is. If you tell me the dad stays at home with the kid and is the primary care taker of that child though, I would not say a thing about her. If all that guy does is race a snowmobile every now and then perhaps that is true and good for them. I just get a vibe that isn't exactly how things are, and if there is no nanny then big sis/soon to be mom has already done a lot of child care in her days.

Hit & Run: 2008 Convention > Palin: Long on 'tude, Short on Specifics - Reason Magazine

From Reason's Matt Welch

Yup.

Of course...

I have to say that I was shocked by the whole mocking of community organizers. Community organizations are the entities that provide the services the Republicans don't want government to provide. Most of these are affiliated with churches. That's why Obama and Bush aren't that too far off on faith-based grants.

I thought her speech was good to fire up the base--both the Republican and Democrats. Problem is that if it comes down to a battle of the bases, and Dems get their turnout, then they win. I don't think her speech did much to get independent voters.

I thought she had some good attack lines, and I'm an Obama supporter, but she kept going at it. I agree with other commentators that said she was getting very personal in her attacks. I don't think that's a way to gain new voters.

Also, I think people will see how disingenuous to while about people attacking you on legitimate things (but claiming it's one illegitimate thing) and then attacking back with ten times the force. I don't think that's going to work either.

And Harry Reid just referred to Palin's speech as "shrill"

REALLY?! Are you freaking kidding me, Reid?! Hillary Clinton is just waiting to take the Senate Majority Leader from your ass.

She didn't write that part of the speech. Its nothing less than expected and probably not the true Sarah Palin according to her 80+% approval rating in Alaska. But hey, you do what you gotta do.

Guess we'll find out in November. I think she will have a big appeal in small towns across flyover country...and that's where Bush won the last election.

yes, SFL, in some cities community organizer and community help organizations, including churches, are a large source of outreach. I dont know if it's the same in all cities over a certain pop. but in this one there are certain, Burroughs, lets call them, that have very important community organizers, who sometimes evolve into running for local office(s). Looking back at the laughter about the position and the mocking tone, I can imagine there were some households that were fired up for the wrong reasons, there. However, that is admittedly not who the speech was aimed at and therefore Im not sure that the reaction of that group is of much, iff any, concern.

Didn't that used to be called community volunteer work? I didn't know it had evolved into a full-time position.

I realize we're scraping the bottom of the barrel with you, but you do know what a classic economic liberal is, right?

who do you think organizes the places to go and things to do? Just handing the homeless guy on the corner a dollar isn't what we're talking about here. The organizations that get grants, how do you think they get those grants...the applications and phone calls dont happen on their own, donations dont come in on their own, etc. Its more than you can know, as are most jobs from the outside looking in....

That goes to my point about it being a turnout election. If John McCain's strategy is to win like Bush did in 2004, I think he loses. The electorate is not the same now as it was then with the high odds that certain groups who have low turnout rates will have higher turnouts.

Just curious, do you see those offended by the community organizers (I think they try to demonstrate what his experience was for the commander-in-chief job; however, they should have done better with that) or involved, McCain/Palin voters anyways?

Giuliani did a masterful job of painting Obama’s ineptitude on the Russian invasion of Georgia, noting Obama’s initial moral equivalency between the two nations, then Obama issuing a statement that the U.N. Security Council would be the appropriate vehicle, then changing his mind again when he was informed that Russia has veto power, and finally changing his position three days later to agree with McCain’s initial position.

no, not really....BUT I wonder how many are women and they were courting the Hillary disenfranchised vote (for a while anyways).

I still think the election is Obama's to lose, but I've got to hand it to whoever McCain's new handlers are...they've played things perfectly and given someone who I didn't think had a chance in hell to win, a 50-50 shot.

It depends on the community. Some places it is volunteer work. The work I do in my community, as a former community organizer, was volunteer in nature. Some organizers are full-time paid jobs (well "paid," they don't make much money). But they do provide valuable services to the community.

Like Flasch said, it's not simply handing a guy on the street corner a dollar. It's helping people find jobs, helping people get medical care, keeping kids in school, ensuring that proper legal services are provided to those that need it. It's organizing members of the community so that they can help themselves. And, most of the time, it's not a governmental agency.

Frankly, whether you agree with Obama or not, there was something noble in his initial decision to work as a community organizer. It's thankless work that is filled with limited success.

Now, maybe I'm taking it too personally, but the dissing of community organizing was offensive. An organizer does have responsibilities. He/she can't simply hire an administrator to do the work for you. An organizer can't fire people just because they disagree with you. An organizer can't work to ban books. And they do exist in towns large or small.

(

Obama is counting on first time voters to win this election, and to quote James Carville from a few years ago, "What do you call a candidate who is counting on first time voters? A loser."

He (McCain) expresses the same views wether he is in scranton or San Francisco..........Does that help?


In general, this one (Palin) is TROUBLE for the opposition. She was spot on all the way through with one little stutter when talking about energy in Alaska.

Somebody mentioned just speaking to the base. Definately did that, but also hit issues on all the important swing states where, if picked up could mean a victory.

For somebody that was in a lot of heat this past week, she really stepped up and delivered with poise under pressure, very good speaker.

So you're saying as an organizer, Obama wrote grant proposals and made phone calls and collected donations, correct?

I suppose I've known several "community organizers" then, but it was all volunteer work. Guess I've never lived in a place big enough where they needed someone doing it full-time and getting paid for it.

You are fighting a losing battle man. The conventional thought is now tgat the all-mighty "experience" recently changed to "executive experience" is somehow a great gauge for performance in the white house.

I'm not entirely sure how much trouble she is for the opposition if the media continues its vetting. She lied about being against the "Bridge to Nowhere." She was for it before she was against it. In fact, she even kept the money after she was against it.

She also hired one of Jack Abramoff's lobbyists to make lobbying trips to DC for, you guessed it, earmarks. She herself made the trip. In fact, Alaska was listed frequently on the McCain Pork list.

Her current ethics troubles continue to be a political nuisance.

With her aggressive attacks, she basically opens the doors for the dems to take the gloves off.

And I'm still not sure she answered people's questions regarding her ability to be vice-president (or even if she knows what the job entails).

How the fuck did people in Massachusetts elect this asshole in the first place?

American Red Cross.

Yeah ole Levi looks really "happy" up there like any one involved in a shotgun (literally) wedding is. His little sexual escapades get him a 17 year old wife, new born baby and a job scraping crab guts off his future father-in-laws fishing boat in the middle of the Bering Strait for the next 50 years. Now, that is the type message that needs to be made into an ad to reduce unwanted teenage pregnancies

good point. I guess I think of them as more of a national organization rather than a local one, even though they do a lot of local blood drives in my community.

I guess the United Way too. Even though there's been a lot of controversy about how its funds are distributed and how much some people on staff make.

Good example. Community organizers are everywhere, and not just in the urban communities. In many places they are the difference for some people between being on the street, having lights, having a job, being thrown out of school, etc.

(As you can see, I'm riled up. I'm usually a lurker, but this just got to me. I haven't been this angry at a convention speech since Pat Buchanan's address in 1992).

As for Rudy, I thought he kept Palin's speech from being more powerful, as they had to skip the video.

He was a different guy in MA - the kind of guy who was my top choice for President - intelligent, wonky, pragmatic rather than idiotic. Than he decided to take to the extreme and run from the Right as some sort of new age messiah - and got his ass kicked. Now he comes across as an asshole.

PS, Any GOP'er who complains about liberals talking about "bitter" people should have some problems with bitching about "east coast liberals".

100% agree it is a good move and shows he is willing to talk to the other side unlike McCain who has canceled two scheduled interviews on CNN. And I think that maybe what Obama is aimimg to show the swing voters he is willing to talk even to on the conservative rights "Politburo" channel Fox.

Sounds like a good abstinence commercial to me...unless you happen to be a fan of 'The Deadliest Catch.'

I'm guessing that's sarcasm. I'm just pointing out that there are many organizations that are very helpful and their workers get paid, albeit less than they would likely get in the private sector.

It sucks when you are penalized for being too socially active and not focusing enough on yourself.

Nope...big fan of the Red Cross

Used to be a volunteer and donor for the United Way too...but quit after some of organizations top officers' questionable practices came to light. dola edit - plus, I never felt entirely comfortable about how some local companies, who were always big donors, seemed to put a lot of pressure on their employees to donate.

Yes, to me and my wife she came off as being very condescending, smug, and negative. Yes, a real bitch. I guess the Dems can lay into her as much as they want since she can take a punch and apparently throw one to.

I don't see the bridge to nowhere being an issue with anyone but staunch liberals. From what I have read, she supported the idea of a bridge to the remote islands as a potential infrastructure improvement. Once things got going, it didn't equate to a good idea. Hence the line "about that bridge to nowhere, thanks, but no thanks". About the keeping the money part, tell us more about that. Did she pocket some cash? Did money go into a general fund? Did something happen outside of the norm?




This is not a community organizer. This is a major national not for profit charity.

Community Organizers are different. If interested, just google and read up on it. There is a lot of good info out there. Sure it is a lot of volunteer based work and generally trying to organize commuinities like neighborhoods, etc. to solve common problems versus individuals trying to solve problems independently.

I understand. In college, I probably did more community service in 5 years than most people do in their entire lifetime. Considered joining the Peace Corps but then 9-11 hit and had me afraid to leave the US. I guess that's part of Obama's appeal for me. I connect with most of his .....young, smart kid, does some stupid stuff, goes to college, gets tough degree, sees people much worse off and wanted to help. He went one way, I sometimes wish I did(until I see that direct deposit 2 times/month).

I think it is great he is going to talk to Bill O'reilly. The timing is the only reason they are getting him anyway. Why complain abou it? It may be the last chance anyone gets to really press him with some decent / difficult questions.

My wife agrees. She had commented that she felt that palin was selfish to have a baby at 44 thus raising the chance of complecations. And yes the baby is a total prop very sad actually.

Holy sh*t! Not like there is anything judgmental here...