In light of events I'd like Barkeep and Path to explain their votes yesterday a bit more closely than they have done.

I'd also like to hear who has got my services today and what they intend to do with them. Not who you plan to scan but whether you intend to defend someone with them.

And I'd be very interested in hearing who's got the swordsman.

Don't use the slaves on yourself. According to my Inbox, I won your services for today.

Vote to execute KWhit then.
If he comes up bad
a) Anxiety is almost certainly a lock for being bad
b) we can look at Barkeep, Path and Ironhead as very strong suspects.

If he comes up good then
a) we have an execution scan to prove it and it looks bad for Ardent
b) I'm, as previously stated, the Wizard of Oz. :)

Vote to execute Path and
if he comes up bad
a) Anxiety and Kwhit still look like strong suspects, and
b) I guess I look bad

If he comes up good
a) Ironhead looks bad.

So not only is there far more evidence pointing towards KWhit being guilty but we actually stand to learn more from his death as well. So, no doubt, the prime suspect will get off once again and we'll be left knowing little.

Okay, at this point, all y'all are Tarqs. Or all y'all are good. Hell, I don't know.

There are things that just don't make a lot of sense to me. They just don't fit. I really want to see what everyone has been bidding on, but that will have to wait until after the game.

I won my first service today in ardent, and I am still wondering how I got him for one reason I'll make public (Grammaticus claimed to bid on him) and one private (I have a meta-game reason for not revealing at this time, but I don't think it is relevant to game emchanics).

I think we're at the point where we need to be sure about everyone high in wealth, even ardent or Ironhead.

I will have to submit my arrest vote early tomorrow (around 1 p.m. PDT, 5 hours before deadline), but I am far from decided which way to go.

I don't know what I am going to do with ardent, but it is unlikely to be to defend KWhit, especially after yesterday's screwy result.

So if he gets off, it won't be in the same manner as Anxiety did.

Two pet theories: No real evidence for this, just throwing them out there for mentla consumption.

Since we started "controlling" the bid process, no one has died from poison. There was a poison death, but I believe it was the first day we got the plan in motion. That's theory #1. It suggests poison was a service after all, perhaps one that is different in the hands of the wolves than it is in good.

Theory #2 is that only one Tarq had the ability to poison. And we killed him with the sword killer. Not sure about that, though. Not sure it works out with our sword killer kills, timing-wise.

:o

I thought I knew what was going on but I'm just getting more and more confused by all this. It doesn't help that I'm here, talking to myself until CR gets in.

Have you got the time to check up those theories or shall I do it (at some stage) Chief? #2 looks fairly easy to check. #1, not so much.

#1 can't be checked really at all, since we have essentially been trying to do that for three days now and haven't really gotten anywhere. Even if we had a good theory on which service turns into a poison killer, I don't know that we could lock it down enough on certain days and with certain people to know anything for sure.

I think the claimed "good" sword kills have been saldana, Antmeister and now Coffee Warlord. The time frame doesn't fit, unless I am forgetting another sword kill by a claimed "good" player.

You're right. Peregrine was the last poison kill and the only sword kill has been Coffee yesterday.

When this idea was first mentioned I thought that the prositutes or the priest might be poisoners. But the priest only crops up every other day, so that doesn't work and the prostitutes have been used when the poisons occured. So I can't see it being that either.

The only sword kill since Peregrine was poisoned, that is.

Sod it. I've reread my arguments from yesterday. I can't find a fault in them unless there's something big that we don't know. (which, is very likely the case to be honest).

I get the feeling that I've been led down the garden path and have done all the bad guys work for them. I'm starting to get a bad vibe off of Ardent. He's certainly got the experience to play me like this. But there's nothing I can do about that today.

Poisonous letter from the horse owners? :)

I like your breakdown of things, too. Of course, I also thought Anxiety's death would clear a lot of things for us, and yet we somehow managed to not kill him. But I have no problem trying to do so again with KWhit for similar effect.

As for ardent, I think it's past time we started focusing on him. I still lean toward him being good, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence here that someone high up and influential is giving us the seirous runaround,a nd he's an obvious choice there. Plus, as noted, he is still amazingly enough, alive, as a lawyer.

Here's the thing. If KWhit is executed and I'm killed Ardent will have sole say about KWhit's loyalty. Well someone knows what they have to do.

Of course Ardent and I could both be bad but then "you're" screwed anyway. :) If you think that's the case I suggest Chief scans me, whoever has my service won't be able to scan me.

So to my mind the logical course of action is
a) We execute KWhit
b) We imprison Ardent and Anxiety
c) Chief scans me with Ardent
d) Somebody protects me

This will assure us of getting a proper read from the KWhit execution.

Hmm...

Duly noted, and who would I use them on then?

I'm not sure how this makes me bad, but so be it.

Add to that you're wrong about me being bad. I may have never been more honest in a game in my life.

I'll accept your apology after the game, though.

Anthrax?:p

So your sacrificing me for your own good? How about we put you up there, and he uses me to scan you?

Well, I'm almost out of here...I'll try to find a wifi spot between work and softball, but there's no guarantee.

Sorry, fellas, I won't be able to contribute much of anything today/tonight. I'll jump online after I get back from the game (probably around 10pm Central), let you know what I found out, if anything.

Throw path12 from the rock.

And I've sent in my choice for the sex slaves to go to. It wasn't me, per CR's request. I didn't send them to Narc, though I'm growing increasingly tired of his questions of me.

I've been nothing more than honest about everything in this game. You would be hard pressed to find someone more loyal to the Senate, to the Republic, than myself.

And I fully expect an apology from you Narc, when the game is over.

For that matter, I expect one from CW as well...though I certainly will have to apologize for putting the sword to him if he was loyal.

Ummmm... Which bit of "C Rum should scan me" did you not understand?

Sorry "Chief should scan me".

And how am I "sacrificing you" for my own good?

OK. I'm now convinced either Ardent or KWhit are baddies. There's only one way to get to the bottom of this and Ardent seems to be avoiding it. Notice that he doesn't offer an explanation for executing path?

If we execute KWhit and he's good I guarantee that I've been played and Ardent is bad. If KWhit is honest he'll accept that there is evidence that he's bad.
If KWhit is bad then I believe Ardent is good. I won't apologise because I think there's clear evidence that he's bad, evidence he should be able to see himself. Why should I apologise for pointing out that evidence?

If KWhit goes free we learn next to nothing. If he dies and I'm not killed then we learn something one way or the other. We get our first confirmed wolf kill and something to build from.

I think it's worth pointing out that we are down to 14 men (13 if we discount Chubby). We're starting to run out of time. With 14 votes we need, at least, 8 votes for an execution. I believe Chief won't interfere with the vote, we need to find out who has hired me and get a commitment that they won't interfere either.

I've no idea how many wolf votes we can expect but everybody has to vote to lynch KWhit or we won't get a result.

Now you're probably worried that this is some sort of elaborate wolf play by me. I don't know what more I can do to help you with that. I've asked to be scanned. If I could be arrested and executed I'd offer to do that. I've tried to help the villagers all game long. I admit I've made mistakes but I think it's fair to say that I'm not the only one. Look back at my posts. I've offered reasoning for everything I've done. I guess what it comes down to today is whether you trust me or you trust KWhit or Ardent.

I've asked for bodyguard protection. On consideration I think it's equally important that Chief is protected, to prevent someone stopping the scan of me. I don't know how we can go about fixing that. If the bodyguards want to synchonise somehow then that would be good but I can understand if they don't want to come out in the open. Otherwise flip a coin and protect whoever comes up. If there's one of you there's a 50% shot you protect the right person. If there's two of you, there's, um can't do the maths, well an even better chance of doing it. :)

I can see I've skirted over the arguments about how KWhit being innocent means that Ardent is likely bad. I'll try to put my case together. I've stated the case against KWhit/CW yesterday. It starts at post #2699. You'll notice that DaddyTorgo, someone we know is innocent, agreed with my argument.

1) Ardent killing CW yesterday when we needed a double scan to find out if he was bad or not. If he was good (something I admit I didn't think was likely) then KWhit was likely good and their suspicions of Ardent were very solid
2) Ardent voting to execute path with no explanation given. Of course, he doesn't want KWhit to be executed while there's a chance of me being alive.
3) The evidence does suggest that KWhit must have lied about taking the swordsman. But it's possible that the evidence is faulty. I think I have a reputation for being someone who gets into heavy (over) analysis. An experience player could set up the evidence to condemn KWhit. This would explain why Chief Rum and I have been left alive. We've been offering solid analysis but what if it's faulty analysis? We will never know unless we ascertain KWhit's guilt.

I don't know. I feel like I'm chasing my tail here. I'm probably overanalysing. Vote for who you think is most guilty. KWhit or Path. I think KWhit looks by far the most guilty. I have a "hunch" :D

I need to think about something else. This is doing my head in.

The conspiracy theory may be just that, but it's the only thing I see to go on, other than the possibility that Ardentus is treasonous. But I just wanted to point out that it seemed from the descrip that it was mostly Ardentus prosecuting Daddy that produced the result. It seemed to me the matchup of ARdentus against Narcizo was the biggest part, just based on how it was described.

I'm a little frustrated at this. I too don't understand why Pathus is arrested, and maybe Ironhead tells us later (I'm still catching up). But I tried to get input from the group as to arrests. I gave my particular suspect list, which is mostly based on the Anxietus group conspiracy theory. The only other thing I've heard is the old suspicion that Ardentus is bad, along with vague mutterings about Daddy.

I almost arrested Ardentus, but hesitated. I'm really loathe to lose us the access of a lawyer, and was afraid I might just be playing into the traitors hands by doing so. And then when Ironhead decided not to arrest in the Anxiety/Coffee/Kwhit group I felt like I had to go in that direction. If people had really wanted me to arrest Ardentus instead, I feel like there should have been more talk in that direction. That seemed like a big leap to take.

Thanks for posting this, this makes some sense. I agree, that based on what we though we knew, Daddy looks like a traitor. Ugh. That's all we need is more confusion.

Well, that seriously makes me wonder something. I don't understand the horse owners at all. First of all, what's the point of them? Maybe it's just because I haven't played WW before, but I don't understand what would be the big advantage of PMing someone. I guess if you had found out something that you didn't want to reveal, but you could tell the consuls for example? In this game at least though I don't see where that would come in handy. Is there more to them than we've been led to think?

The second part is, it seems like they've never worked, or rarely worked. Do we still have any successful horse message passing? At least at one point it seemed that we hadn't. I don't know how the horses would tie into anything else, but as far as I can tell they're just a waste. Is there more to them than I know?

I've tried twice, both recipients are still alive, and got nothing.

Damnit. KWhit is not the person that I want to take out of the Anxiety/CW/AE conspiracy circle...but it seems we have been left few other options. At this point in the game we have to figure out where we STAND, regardless of who we have to kill -- in the past I've advocated killing seers just to figure out their allegiance, in order to confirm their information, and this is more or less the same case. However, there are significant costs...we've been able to trust him all game, he's been useful most of the game, and if we kill him and he's GOOD we're moving the other bad wealthy people up the ladder, bringing them that much closer to screwing us.

Quietly, though...what proof do we have that Narcizo is on our side...or CR, for that matter, although I find it hard to believe that a wolf would help us out so much...so I'm much more suspicious of Narcizo out of that pairing...leaving me with a difficult choice as to what to do with my action today.

However, for the lynch...path, for better or worse, doesn't get at the core of our problems. KWhit does.

VOTE EXECUTE KWHIT

It was the Narcizo show, now it's my show ;-) This place starts looking more and more like a soapbox as the numbers dwindle. I'm eager to hear from everyone at some point today.

It seems clear to me to vote to execute Kayus Whitus. I've been seeing the case against him and Anxietus for a while now, and nothing's dissuaded me from it yet, though I admit Ironhead saying he hired Ardent confuses it a bit. Still, it's the only strong case I think we've seen all game. On the other hand, I still don't know what the case against Pathus Twelveus is. I feel like I've missed something.

No one yet has come out as hiring Narcizus, or the swordsman, or the other bodyguard. Or for that matter hte horses, but once again I can't understand why I should care about them. Who else was up for bid, thepriest or the philosopher?

Our next step seems clear to me, execute Kayus Whitus (has he just not been around? I think we've only heard from him once in two days?) and arrest Anxietus and Ardentus. If Kayus is bad, as I expect he will be, then we've got Anxietus under wraps too. If he's not we can look at Ardentus. I don't really know any other suspects at this point. I mean other than everybody, these are the only ones that stand out.

EXECUTE KAYUS WHITUS

I should be around today to follow along, so I'll be able to change my vote if someone convinces me otherwise.

I've successfully communicated with Chief Rum. I informed him that I would take the swordsman not the bodygaurd back a few days ago. I got his reply the following day.

My theory as to why the horses haven't worked was that you are not permitted to send messages to the consul. (that would be a game mechanic to prevent someone with a scan telling a consul "arrest Mr X and I'll scan him today" This mechanic would force the person with the scan or the consul to do so openly and risk being blocked/killed by the bad guys). I sent the message when I was a consul but received the answer after I left the post. To be honest I haven't thought about it recently, with other things on my mind.

The case is that Path is typically more useful than he's been this game. This game he's practically been UTR, especially by his standards. But at this point that isn't too much.


I agree with this plan wholeheartedly. One of those two probably needs to go down tomorrow, one way or another.

It really isn't fair of me to be frustrated towards you about yesterday, now that I actually think about it for a couple of seconds (shocking, I know). The problem is that Anxiety wriggled out of his comeuppance, leaving us info clueless again, and there's nothing you could have done about that.

I guess I should have arrested AE out of that group, but I just suspect him less than Kayus and Abeus. Anxiety getting out of jail just confirms that for me. He's managed to avoid scanning and execution too handily.

The only reason I've been trusting Narcizo is frankly just because he seemed to have the same theories as me. When I read his posts we usually synced on what we thought was going on. Not much to go by, but it's pretty much all I have to go with in this game as far as I can tell. I mean, the only scans we've had were on all our prime suspects lol.

Chief Rumus, is in the same boat. His idea of organizing service bids is one I had from day one, and seems only to harm the traitors, so I tend to imagine he's on our side. I'm an amateur here, so maybe it's a fancy way of pulling the wool over my eyes, but I've got to go forward on something.

I guess I'm goign to give it up as just more than my brain can handle right now. With the long amount of time it takes for messages to come and go, they don't seem handy. And it doesn't do anything to prove loyalty. And I would have thought the sex slaves woudl be the service that was just fluff :-)

Autumn, more or less the same reason I've been doing it. I don't think we have much a choice anymore; it's too late in the game to start doubting them...but wouldn't it be the coup of the century if Narcizo is bad?

OK, well that makes sense, but isn't an angle I can take. Plus how many times have we gotten burned on that so far?

I should get to work and wait for the rest of the Senators to file through and make their speeches. I'm interested in hearing more views.

As I've said for the last three days or so, ever since I got in a position of power, I welcome any attempt to establish my innocence. Nobody has taken me up on that for whatever reason. Hopefully Chief will do so today and we can move forward. Of course, if Chief is bad as well as me then that doesn't work either.

For what it's worth I think Chief looks less suspicious than me as well. :)

The path case was a much better about four days ago when we didn't have a clue.

And yeah, Narcizo, I'll definitely be working today to help guard the you/CR angle, it'd be really nice to know that for sure.

I tried to use it to catch a bad guy but it didn't work. It might have worked but it was a very long shot. But I didn't have any wealth at the time (a position I find myself in again) so I thought I'd try to be creative with the horseys.

Times up for me. I've stated my case. For any number of reasons I think voting KWhit is the way to go. Do the right thing.

I'm still interested in hearing from path and barkeep about why they voted for DT yesterday. I'm still interested in getting a commitment from whoever has hired me that they won't interfere in the trial and I'm still interested in establishing who has the swordsman. But the chances are that that will have to wait until tomorrow for me. If I'm still around.