The cynic in me says that the colleges don't care as much about long term effects on players since they're only in the college for a couple of years. Same with individual professionals. With a few rare exceptions, most players are only under contract for a short period of time so they don't care about the players enough to let it get in the way of their profits for the upcoming year.

SI

I think you are kidding, but trust me when I say New Yorkers coming to Jersey is a much bigger problem. Has been for years.

Everything I know about New Jersey is Bon Jovi and The Sopranos.

As far as I can tell, everyone there is part of the mob, family of the mob, or angelic-voiced hair bands.[*]






* I'm more than half certain that this is the official state motto. I'll correct this after a quick Wikipedia search if I'm wrong.

lol.

come visit some time. It is an amazingly beautiful and diverse state.

There are not studies on long term damage. The virus is less than a year old. Most people who have contracted it have been free of it for 3 months.

It will take years to know whether damage caused by the virus increases your risk long term for heart attack, stroke, and other cardiovascular issues. That thing where people can't taste or smell? It's something that damaged the brain. We don't know how long or what damage has been done there. We know many of the most serious respiratory illnesses leave permanent lung damage and it appears COVID-19 is on the same path.

Maybe it's all good but we just don't know if getting this means you're at a high risk of postencephalitic parkinsonism or early onset dementia down the road.

I want to be cynical & agree, but I just think if the info is there it would have been publicized. Low level medical professionals don't give a shit about HIPAA etc in 2020.
Yep, we have no idea if it will cause long term damage. So why are supposed to assume it will instead of waiting to see? (And why aren't there any studies by now?!?)

I think the reason there are no long-term studies by now is that those studies take years. The virus hasn't been around for years. It's literally impossible to do long-term studies in a short-term timeframe.

You mean like with the head injuries and CTE? The leagues dont care about the player's long term health unless they are forced to

Follow Ups on asymptomatic patients is also tricky (have to find them first in an organized way and not having them monitored continously would be an issue) and as with many, many other things it is a matter of ressources. A lot of which are still invested in figuring out why it kills and how to prevent it, then next also into what happens with recovered patients from hospitals or even sick-at-home (and the outlook here is not stellar...)

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...d-19-infection

From lung scarring to heart damage, COVID-19 may leave lingering marks | Berkeley News



Once you "wait and see" while going ahead, you have already decided. And can't take it back, if it turns out to be a bigger problem.

I am not going to claim i know what the right decision is (Football being played or not DOES have other ramifications as well, it isn't just a luxury), but basing it on "we don't know yet so we might as well go ahead" seems flawed as a basis for any decision.

And is partly what landed us in this mess in the first place. Plenty of warning signs were ignored along the way in favour of assuming a lack of evidence meant a certain thing isn't happening (like asymptomatic spread or even cases being a major issue or mask efficiency being doubted because it had not been proven 'in vitro' or for this specific virus etc).
People do have a tendency to go with the glas half full option.

And while i am not entirely cynical on the issue, whatever happens with these college athletes is not exactly an open book or independently monitored.

I get the feeling that we're going to be seeing more stories like this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...tally-n1233810

No idea why people suddenly think that wearing a mask during a full blown pandemic is an invitation to lose all form of common and decency.

Do people do this when they see a "No shoes, no shirt, no service" sign?

Oh God yes. Ever damned Summer (especially when you were raised in a Shore town).

I'm afraid you've been blocked from Newsweek.

Bastards.

Our school system finalized parent choice of in-person instruction or online instruction, but Jefferson County (Louisville) appears ready to adopt an online-only start to the school year. Biggest school system in Kentucky.

We're still not sure what to do, but school doesn't start until August 26th so we'll see how it goes. Leaning toward in-person because you can switch to online at any point, but if you start online, you are stuck in it until the next semester.

We are now about 3 weeks removed from the beginning of the ascent of the number of daily infections. We are now clearly seeing a resulting rise in the number of daily deaths from the stable numbers that we had previously been seeing.

I had to stop in Publix briefly today and I think for the first time everyone I saw had a mask on. Walmart I see has instituted a mandatory mask policy too I see. Yeah progress?

Meanwhile our Governor thinks the children are suffering in every way you can think of by staying home so he wants all school districts to submit plans to the Secretary of Education on a school reopening policy that must include a 5-days a week in school and remote learning plans before they can reopen.

Mandating masks seems to have the desired effect of getting a greater percentage of people wearing masks, but there doesn't seem to be any appetite in either the business or government to enforce it against those who don't comply. I think the win is that you get a vast number of people wearing masks and just roll your eyes/stay away from the a-holes.

But just the fact that a mask mandate itself definitely increases compliance underlines how irresponsible Trump and his administration's (and state officials) messaging on masks has been. If 80% of people would have worn a mask if told they had to and by getting consistent messaging from officials, then all this backlash wouldn't have occurred - or it would have been extremely isolated. I've been in a couple of grocery stores in the past week since we mandated masks, and I saw no more than 3-4 people without masks in each store. Before that, it was probably 50/50 at best.

I'm pretty sure I don't agree with Mississippi governor Tate Reeves on much, but he laid out the case against herd immunity today in a series of Tweets

https://twitter.com/tatereeves/statu...83825219682304

SI

Lots of herd immunity references from my more conservative Facebook friends. I don't know if they realize the scale of what they are suggesting. It isn't just, let healthy people get sick for a few months.

Yep. Among those who appear to think the reason the CDC, WHO are for mask-wearing is because they are part of the whatever conspiracy and it has nothing to do with the virus are a couple of people I know who have been in the medical field as long as I've known them. One was I believe an EMT and is now a fitness coach, I want to say the other was/is a nurse but unsure? Anyway, point being it's infecting (pun intended) even the medical field.

Yep, that tracks with what we've heard. Would still love to see any studies on young, healthy people who are asymptomatic or don't require hospitalization, but I'm guessing no one thinks it's worth the resources at this time.

Some promising news on the race for a vaccine:

Moderna's coronavirus vaccine ready to advance to final phase of testing

Oops!

"Stitt's diagnosis is particularly notable, as he has not only pushed to aggressively reopen his state despite a surge in cases but has at times disregarded advice from medical experts. In March, he faced backlash for posting a photo of himself and his children at a crowded restaurant, which he later deleted."

He also attended Trump's recent rally in Tulsa.

Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt announces he has tested positive for coronavirus

and he still is saying he thinks a mask order infringes on peoples freedoms.

The problem is he will recover, then start beating the "see it's just a flu" drum instead of spreading awareness for how easily it spreads.

We need a high profile non mask person to die before some attitudes may switch. I doubt that would even work though.

Apparently the Oxford developed Vaccine candidate has very good looking results ready to publish, being in the latest stages of review/edit for publication. Both measured Antibody response and T Cell response.
It is already in Stages 3, so further along than others as well.

Oxford vaccine: trials suggest "double protection" from coronavirus - BBC Science Focus Magazine

But even then, they'd say "oh, he had underlying conditions" as if a substantial portion of the American population doesn't.

Governor Kemp signs an executive order banning cities from requiring masks. It's like a fight to see which governor can outdumb each other to gain Trump's blessing.

I was planning on moving to Florida within the next 4-5 years. Not sure I want to do that so much anymore.

It's gonna be under water soon enough. I wouldn't go.

Local control apparently only means local control for stuff he likes. At least Nathan Deal actually believed in local control.

Fulton and Cobb counties match APS, Dekalb, etc with online start to school year.

It seems like the politically smart play would have been to not mandate masks, but to allow cities, etc. to mandate them.

He gets the "I didn't mandate masks" cred with the GOP, but masks would be mandated, lowering the spread and helping his state.

There's been a recall effort initiated against our mayor for the mask requirement here, and good 'ole Ammon Bundy, who you probably remember, shows up with his cult at various government offices around the Boise area to try to intimidate them into backing down on the requirements. The health department cancelled a meeting on mask and other safety mandates today after Bundy's gang swarmed the building and tried to break in. (I'm glad my office floor has a secured entry and lots of armed investigators around, otherwise I'm sure he'd wander by here too - if he does, I'll get a statement for the FOFC news department and post video here).

It seems like a pretty small group - when they have "protests" at the capital building it's usually about a dozen losers who who up - but they sure are noisy and persistent.

They need 25,000 signatures of registered Boise voters to get the recall on the ballot (that's a pretty huge number, it has to be 20% of all registered voters in the city - when they only got about 30k signatures on an online petition that anybody could sign as often as they wantted), and the signatures have to be obtained in person, witnessed by someone registered with the recall petition. So these people are going to be running around with their clipboards downtown, harassing people, unmasked of course. Can't wait for that.

Schools in this area are offering online or online plus 2 days a week in class. Parents have the choice.

Even Alabama has required masks. That is right, Alabama is now more "progressive" than GA.

More progressive than OH too. I know a lot of people pissed DeWine refuses to take that next step.

This is true for St. Paul public schools as well (for now at least).

SC reports 72 deaths, 30 more than any single previous day. Gotta hope that is a cumulative catch-up number or something. Yeesh.

We are going to see pretty big death numbers soon. They trail the uptick in cases by 2-3 weeks. Likely why the White House is making the move to control the numbers. They know what’s coming.

Some of this was noted in here yesterday when it began. Troubling:

I just saw on Twitter that they caved to pressure and the numbers will go back up on the CDC website.

My wife found a different teaching job. Old school was trying too hard to brand itself as a “community center.” I think her new school will be much more realistic about spread.

All of my usual FB "no mask" suspects have responded to promising news about COVID-19 vaccines by pre-registering their anti-vaxx stance.

So, it's apparently not enough to just extend a global pandemic unnecessarily, they're now doubling down on making sure it won't go the way of polio if they have any say in it.

There are a billion folks around the world who would love to have access to the American child vaccination system. Can't we trade some of our folks for some of them? Then everybody could be happy.

If Doterra releases something for covid they're gonna break the internet ordering that shit though.

I am starting to think some people are rooting for the virus.

Here's the thing with these people (if I can generalize...I'd like to see if they match with other parts of the country).

In my feed, they're the conservative, religious, second amendment, thin blue line[*], pro-military[*], rant about AOC, "you can't say he's not your president even though I said Obama wasn't my president", "I'm stocky, not fat", "here's a nice post about my wife because it's our anniversary, but mostly what you'll see is me making weeby, inappropriate comments to women friends I find more attractive", never seem to have much money but rail about how to system is rigged toward people who do, true patriots who seem to have deep and disturbing wish fulfillment fantasies about American actually collapsing so they can take their guns and be part of the special snowflake elite who rebuilds this great nation from the ground up into one where they have all the money, get to shoot all of the liberals, and all of the girls they couldn't get in high school now have to give up their pussies for protection.

Is that about right?

* By which I mean that they're super supportive of these things, but never served in either capacity.

These people are anti-vax? I mean it's anecdotal and I'm sure you are telling the truth but that is not the "typical" anti-vax profile.

As far as the no mask goes I have posted this before but it bears repeating...

I see the no mask wearing in two groups around me...
* Low education (what you would expect white redneck with dead child memorandum in their back window... likely Trump voter. My friend who is a city cop says the super low income area of North city is the worst and even was back when we were supposed to be sheltering in place... would guess they are not big Trump supporters)
* Young. Now these wear the masks for the most part to the stores but are at the bars and the ones we are reading about who are getting the virus.

However here are groups that are religiously wearing the mask around me...
* Super high income areas are basically 100%. For sure a mix in elections but probably 50/50 Trump/Clinton not 90/10 Democrat. (EDIT: Checked the 2016 election results 286K Clinton, 202K Trump) Again all wearing masks, have been basically the whole time. High education levels.
* Old people. Would also guess a lot of Trump voters.


I mean I get it the politicians are fanning the flames but I just don't agree that it is a red/blue thing. It seems to be an education thing. I won't dispute Trump pulls a lot more of the uneducated vote and has an influence on the uneducated but I really don't think 50% of the country (or even close to that) is against masks.

I just happened across this article today

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/64-d...ry?id=71779279

It surprises me, too. Because as much as I don't have a ton in common with most of these guys, historically I would have described them as at least sensible, even though we disagreed about political stuff.

Most of the anti-mask/anti-vaxx I have access to is a mono-cultural cluster of folks who are related by family and church ties over years and years (families, cousins and extended cousins, etc.) But I agree that what they have in common with your dataset is a lower level of education...but I've always thought of them as smart, motivated, civic minded folks.

I guess I just don't understand how they made the leap and went from just Trump Republicans to anti-mask/vaxx, boogaloo, cashless society doomsayers in such a short period of time.

Anti-vaxx is something that straddles political lines I have found. You have your super liberal anti-vaxxers (your stereotypical super-organic types) but you also have your super conservative anti-vaxxers (generally they also tend to freak out about "deep state").

Yeah, anti-vax has some strange bedfellows.

The mask thing, though - that's a pretty specific set of folks and the r squared with one particular 2016 presidential vote is pretty strong.

SI

They keep trickling this stuff out to prepare for the bad news in a few weeks.

NCAA president Mark Emmert: "Today, sadly, the data point in the wrong direction. If there is to be college sports in the fall, we need to get a much better handle on the pandemic."

— Heather Dinich (@CFBHeather) July 16, 2020

And then who makes the obvious connection that if you can't have sports, you can't have dorms and classes?

If SEC football gets cancelled, will southerners revolt against Trump?

Nope. His supports are an unbreakable base and those who are perfectly fine with his behavior may not like his antics but are okay with things the way they are...

Reminder that this is a non-political thread.

We may need a COVID politics thread because I don't know where exactly to rant about my absolute moron of a Governor.

I guess I'm not really disagreeing but saying it's a subset. Anedotically I live in a middle class suburb of St Louis and generally the whole city is Trump. (I mean based on yard signs, the local state republican rep running unopposed) The mask seems to vary between the lower priced homes and the richer part of town. All Trump.voters but significantly different views. Take that even a step further to the really weathly suburbs where the voters are like 60% Trump and masks are like 99%.

Great info on who is wearing masks today from NYTimes.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-mask-map.html

...your "duhhhh" moment is the money quote from the NYT item above:

“The big takeaway of all of the data is partisanship is the big determinant of all of the behavior,” she said. “It’s not age. It’s not where you live.”

I am going to call shoddy data there, chance all 5 people are wearing a mask in 5 random encounters? WTF is that? Why not measure how many people are wearing masks period? Why are we measuring people in groups of 5? Why not 4, or 3? Hell, get outside of the major urban areas you're hard pressed to find people in groups of 5, and in many cases those may all be family members who are probably not going to be wearing a mask together anyway.

In SW Ohio, I just ran out to grab a burger with my youngest for lunch. Everyone that came into 5 Guys put on a mask going inside. Wore the mask, exited, those eating at the benches outside took off the mask to eat and left. Those doing carry out, were wearing the mask back to the truck or car where they took it off and ate. Most put the mask on when they got up to throw out their food and go back to their car.

The one group that didn't do this was a group of teenagers that were all in a clump (everyone else was scattered in the area). They sent one person into order, because the others didn't want to wear a mask (predominately females, one guy).

Limited sample size, sure. But according to the NYT article, no one was wearing a mask because the only large group there was not. In reality, everyone else was doing so when they were exposed to other groups. The % of people in grocery stores wearing them is over 75% at the places I go to, but again according to the NYT that still shows up as 0% because of the artificial parameters they are putting up.

That's not going to turn out the way they hope

If only there were a number of vaccine trials going on that look promising.

EDIT: Though this is one of those local news story things that probably should be taken with a bit of salt. I'm sure there are some nutty people doing this just not as many as local news wants to scare you into thinking there are.

SI

Who said anything about groups of 5? It says "Chance all five people are wearing masks in five random encounters" - so all five people in those five random encounters. So each random encounter is with one person.

Yeah, just like the FL story of the church where they did this and it resulted in a 17 year old girl dying "as a patriot" thanks to her mother.

Just rant here. Too damn bad if Edward doesn't want it to be political. The reality is thanks to our horrendous administration Covid has become 100% political.

It is impossible for it not to seep over into this thread.

And if you scroll over areas of the map it tells you what percentage of people say they wear a mask from always to never.

Hey, it wasn't only me and don't think it was me that asked for the rule/courtesy. I updated the thread header because I was the trolling (or was it Russian bot) originator. There were others that wanted this thread to be non-political.

Be self-disciplined or go ahead and be that special guy that breaks the mold (and go ahead and discuss the racism angle while you are at it).

Thank you.

Hmmm, what is that smell ... is it the race (master)baiter again?

Some people just don't want to ever be told what to do, and vaccines are something they are told to do, so they don't want to do it. Or acknowledge that someone else may know more than they do. Which, IMO, does not make them smart or civic-minded.

I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

Do you really want to be body slammed for your racism again?

I respond in kind.

You get personal or insulting, I'll do the same. Go ahead ... (but in a different thread)

But you basically decided to go full asshole over someone saying Thank You to a post saying too bad if you don't want this thread to get political.

If it was a single incident, I'd agree.

But I'm sure you know there's a long history with the guy and there's your oblivious hypocrisy again.

Created a new thread. Linked for easy accessibility. Take it there.

Enjoy.

400 Bad Request

It would be nice to scroll through this thread to get updates without having to read through what is already been rehashed over and over again.

I honestly don’t understand how potential re-election is more important than trying to save lives.

From what I’m seeing the Georgia governor is an absolute piece of work, and others aren’t far behind.

Just waiting for the next stage where Trump’s brownshirts start citing Covid as a reason to drag opponents off the streets, although that would necessitate him acknowledging there is a problem I guess

Some people also complained about too many covid threads, but lets start another one!

The reality is the discussion has shifted from where it started a few months ago and it is hard to keep politics out.

KY Supreme Court is going to decide on all executive orders that have been subject of injunctions in a couple of county court cases and has issued a stay pending review. The unanimous statement issued by the court suggests the governor is going to win (stresses broad executive power in a public health emergency), but who knows.

State/local politics... AG and others have filed in targeted courts with conservative judges seemingly knowing the outcome in advance. Supreme Court doesn't seem to be having any of it.

Sorry shouldn't comment while working, but the same applies here as well. This is not how many people are wearing masks, this is in five random encounters, how many times are all people wearing masks? If I have 5 random encounters and 80% of people are wearing masks, it still gets marked as a 0% because it is what % of 5 random encounters are all people wearing masks.

Again, its not what % of people are wearing masks which was my point.

I really don't see why it's hard to keep politics out. We've been doing a relatively good job for the past 2-3 months. This was in the heyday of criticism of Trump's regular briefing sessions, inadequate response etc. and those (for the most part) went to the Trump thread.

This thread provided pretty good info on symptoms, progress on vaccines, therapeutics; how effective distancing, masks were; stories from Germany, Italy, Uk; what was happening in schools etc.

I'd say let the forum members decide if they really want to incorporate politics into this COVID-19 thread. If this non-political thread dies a slow death because everyone is posting the in the political version, we'll know. If it doesn't, then we'll have given an outlet to those that live and breathe politics to vent.

Just my 2c.

It was already pointed out you could hover over a county to get a % of people who say they are wearing masks.

There are apparently 3 vaccines in phase 3.

There's a nice chart in the middle of the below link with the others in phase 1 & 2. Estimated vaccine by 1Q to late Spring 2021.

I'm going to start making some vacation travel plans for next summer!

A Coronavirus Vaccine: Where Does It Stand? | Kaiser Health News

Moderna sounds promising. The Oxford one I am not sure is going to be sustainable however it sounds like its a good stop gap. I do not know how I feel about the Chinese Vaccine

That's not what the map is showing. The map takes data from self-reported mask-wearing from always to never. Based on that information, they have calculated a percentage chance of five random encounters with single persons where they are all masked.

It isn't a binary 0% or 100%.

The article didn't get into it but assume approved vaccines will have essentially the same success rate (e.g. not going to quibble about 95% vs 97%). I'll take any of them as I think the world will breathe a sigh of relief knowing there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Most flu vaccines are in the 30-50% range. I don't imagine a Covid vaccine would be 95+ but who knows.

Good point, it's because flu mutates and the flu makers have to "guess" as to the mix of strains for the upcoming year?

Hopefully for Covid it is much more like the polio vaccine but don't really know.

So I bought a plague doctor half-mask and wore it to the grocery store today. The result is that I got one "cool mask bro!", a kid who thought I looked like a dragon, and some distant laughter that may or may not have been directed at me.

Amazon.com: Plague Doctor Costume Mask PU Leather Steampunk Bird Mask Halloween Cosplay Masquerade Party Mask Black: Clothing

So no one can bitch that I don't wear a mask!

Re: Masks
(Maybe this is more of a random thought thing than COVID-19 related, but whatever.)

We're living with very loose restrictions in the Netherlands right now, some minor outbreaks are occurring left and right, including one in my hometown in a nursery home (yes, some of them died). Masks are hardly compulsory here, unless you're traveling with public transportation (would apply for me to metro and bus rides) and are 'advised' when travelling by car with non-household members (the guidelines are vague). So, I bit the bullet and bought some washable ones.

Long story short: When I got home, I looked at the package and couldn't help but notice the "Made in China" part. This may sound Trumpian, but the conspiracy theories are tough to avoid, or at the very least the irony involved with it.

It looks great.

No reviews yet, let me/us know how it works out after a week of wearing.

Edward isn't the only one who doesn't want it to be political. It's not impossible or even difficult to keep the thread relatively clear of that. We just decide to post overtly political things in the Trump thread as I've been doing most of the time. Simple solution. There are multiple aspects to the reality of the pandemic and not all are political.

I misattributed a quote to JPhillips here because I stupidly misused copy-paste. Removed.

Edward may not have been, but a thread title reading “non-political” with Edward’s name in the byline is especially rich given that 75% of the discussions he starts are political in nature (his very first post concerned Islam), or of some scenario which could lead to dire consequences (markets, etc.). He has never been a non-political poster.

Can you give me a post number so I can see what the reference was?

Hey thanks for the support.

I am sure there were at least a couple more early on who were perturbed about how the this thread was getting into the typical circle jerk of Trump/GOP bashing which unavoidably distracted from trying to provide helpful info & experiences to the forum.

My mistake back then was not creating the 2 threads then.

Welcome to 'how to be a moron with clipboard', population me. The other quote I previously attributed to you, you didn't even say - it was from a completely different forum on a completely different topic and I have no idea how I inserted it here.

So what I was talking about is the NYT map.

95% is wishfull thinking, it will be closer to the flu shot to start with. Although there is a decent chance it does land in between because flu really is an outlier in that you have a vaccine (remember that many, many don't despite decades of trying) but is so ineffective due to the specific problems with regard to Influenza, which is not only changing rapidly but also 1) really is not one Virus but multiple that ebb and flow in terms of prevelance and 2) you have to guess which ones make the jump to your region any given year on their way around the globe. Which makes the window extremely narrow when to make that call on how to design the shot.
17/18 was the worst season of the last decade partly because many countries did not account for the Influenza B strain that ended up the most dominant on the Northern hemisphere after being not much of a factor in the southern winter nor were Influenza B strains in years prior. In Germany for example B strains were a minor factor for years, that year suddenly 70% of tested specimens were a particular B strain. The year after ? Not a single one all winter.

The CV vaccine has different problems i am sure, but not the same as either sth like HIV (which some will bring up as "see, there might be no vaccine") or the flu.


As an aside: Why is the political thread properly designated, but the unpolitical still dubbed with the made up designation ? I mean, i got used to it but struck me as ironic ;)