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That creates one hell of a slippery slope and is generally why we have laws protecting minority groups. From the 90s back this was the most common argument made when it came to someone being offended by workplace behavior. If you're the only one offended then it's in you to remove yourself or just accept it. We know better now. We can make a reasonable assumption that if one person in a group is uncomfortable with something there are likely others that are afraid to speak up. In this case we can go the other way with it now. If a coach wanted to conduct a satanic ritual on the field after games and it made 30 players uncomfortable and 1 player joined in then the satanic ritual is now protected. It's on the 30 players to go somewhere private. |
That’s a ridiculous extrapolation. In this instance (which is what was being discussed, not satanic rituals or 1970s workplaces) there is nothing that discriminates against the one, nothing that prevents him from opportunities, nothing that is against the law of the land, nothing that impacts them from living their life.
Being uncomfortable is no excuse for preventing anyone from doing anything legal that you don’t agree with if it doesn’t adversely impact on your ability to live and prosper. |
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Why is this exempt? If someone's religion is that they believe in Satan worship, why would that be any different? |
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I was referencing something that Atocep randomly brought into the conversation. I agree, if said Satanic ritual doesn’t involve sacrifice, harm to animals, doesn’t take place outside someone’s window at midnight, or anything else that breaks the law or adversely affects someone’s ability to live their life, crack on. |
SCOTUS doesn't care about a conspiracy.
They just reinstated maps in LA that were overturned by a district court without any explanation or hearings. Just vote harder. lol |
I honestly can't believe I'm say this....but something has to be done about the supreme court. I could elaborate why...but like where do I even start on the list of things it's doing that ideally a supreme court would not be doing. I don't really know what the options are, but none of them are going to easy and I really wonder if Biden has the stones to start any sort of process. But at this point the supreme court is literally just another body of congress with ultimate veto power that will veto everything that even smells like someone that is liberal wants.
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And it's not even like this is the will of the people. How many of these justices were appointed by people that actually won a popular vote?
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So wait, are you claiming it's okay because more players approve than disapprove? Really? Based on your statement here, if 99 kids in the cafeteria feel better about a teacher led prayer and one kid didn't, that would be okay? That's just not how rights work in this country. It's important for the government to not endorse religion, even if that's the religion of 99.999% of the people in the country or the state or the school. |
Reports are saying that both Secret Service agents in the car are willing to testify that the assault thing never happened. If that's the case, having her testify to that was a huge mistake. That is all the Fox News watchers are going to hear over and over again. Hopefully, that report is wrong.
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It appears Engel and Ornato already testified.
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I don't think it matters to them. |
They'll lose more than Fox News viewers if this blows up on them. Hence my posting in the other thread.
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I'd be very careful about trusting the source. Trump folks lied to reporters all the time and we don't know who is speaking.
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We don't have to trust it. If they already testified to what she said, it'll come out. Or, if they come forward with contradictory statements, then we are back to square one. Actually, square negative one for what it will do to everything the committee has done up to this point.
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Right, but until then there isn't a good reason to trust this anonymous source's contention.
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Confirmed also by CBS now.
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Multiple reporters are now saying this, but it certainly could be the same source pushing the narrative. Problem is, the narrative is they plan to testify so if it's just a narrative, is this just to temporarily stop the momentum of the day? Because at some point, it'll either be true or not.
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I think until they are willing to be deposed under oath about it, it should be taken with a grain of salt. I am certain the committee would be happy to speak to them about this.
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This could be a range of things, from nothing like this happened, to I define assault and lunge differently, to we'll never testify under oath about it.
There just isn't any reason to get too caught up in anonymous sources when there's clearly an effort by the Trump camp to bury this woman. |
They will definitely testify about it. The official account of the Secret Service said all agents have been made available to the committee and have and will testify at the committee's request. Engel has already testified to the committee in a closed door session.If they come forward and deny this, this is just a huge unforced error by the committee.
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dola
Remember how Ginny Thomas was willing to testify? Her lawyer now says maybe not unless the committee comes up with a better reason. |
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Nobody said you give up all of your rights, but you do give up some of them. I'm a teacher/coach and I would never do something like that because I'd never want a kid feeling coerced into joining such a prayer or feeling left out because they had a different faith. If those values are so important, then wouldn't be important for people to find a secular way to impart those values, so they're including everyone? Or just teach/coach at a private school. |
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You absolutely do when you are an agent of the state. |
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As for the values themselves I think that's a larger debate, but we can all agree there's a whole lot of overlap between what religions publicly preach and generally accepted positive societal values, right? If hearing "Love Thy Neighbor" instead of just "Be a nice person" helps you be a nice person sweet. |
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What would happen to a teacher who repeatedly used racial slurs at school? |
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Which state and which slurs? |
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But I'm reminded why I stopped engaging in political threads here and why many people have left. Have fun with your strawmen and misplaced righteous anger, I'll go back to lurking. |
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You said you don't lose your rights as a government employee. Your own response just admitted you do. |
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If on our breaks I led prayer for my workers in our office and one person complained to HR I'd be asked to stop or move it someplace more private. The football field, in this instance, is his place of work. He's still acting in his position as a coach. That's a problem. If I were to make crude jokes in the office and 1 person got offended I'd be forced to stop. There's nothing illegal there, but the fact that 1 person was offended is enough to shut it down. Something doesn't have to be illegal to be problematic. |
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This doesn't even touch his own prejudice against players that refuse to join said prayers. How are those players potentially going to be punished by not being Christian at a public school? And what about any muslim players he may have? What happens to them? How do they feel if 90% of the team prays to a religion that they don't believe in after each game? |
I should add that I have children that play football and are not Christian and I would be extremely upset if they felt forced to pray to Christ in order to continue playing. Like I would assert my right to self defense of my family upset.
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Also Tinker involved students I believe, not teachers or staff. And there were still restrictions on their speech. Seems a bit different than teachers, who are employees of the state using taxpayer facilities. Regardless, there are absolutely restrictions on free speech and free expression as teachers. A teacher would absolutely be fired for using racial slurs or making sexually inappropriate comments despite being legal speech. |
This country is shifting towards a "majority" that really isn't a majority in anything besides complaining.
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That's mostly what it comes down to. You have a person of authority who is employed by the state that puts students in a difficult position. Of course the coach won't say it's mandatory, but will you be treated different if you don't participate? Only the coach can answer that question. But his actions show this was more than just a personal religious issue. It's similar to why companies have rules on dating subordinates. Of course you can say no to your boss asking you on a date. But you're left to wonder if you turn him down, will you be punished? I'm looser on what I think students and teachers should be open to doing in school when it comes to religion. But I do think the line should be drawn at making students feel obligated to participate. If that's what you want, there are tons of private schools that offer those opportunities. |
Students should be able to and are able to (despite conservative lies about "taking prayer out of schools") pray during non-instructional time as long as they are not being disruptive. There has never been a court ruling otherwise.
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The secret service stuff even if wrong was so minor compared to the bombshells today that of people want to grasp on to the one party where she admittedly said that she wasn’t there but heard, you’re just spun.
Today was damming and incredible. Truly historic sort of eyewitness stuff that is just unbelievable and clearly disqualifying of trump to run for future off if not criminal. She was the eyewitness to 99% of what she testified to and the one part she said she ‘heard that’ is the one part that someone could speak differently to and that’s the thing of import? No way She was incredible and brave Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
The ketchup on the wall was really funny.
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I agree it was a mistake. Even if she qualified it, its such a weird story there should have been some basic cross-check. |
re: Coach and praying mid-field. A no vote from me. If we allow this, we allow for other like religious activities and it'll become a cluster.
As long as it's totally voluntary, go ahead and take it off field (e.g. private room) or something. Don't think anyone would care if the coach led a prayer outside of public eye. |
The Biden Presidency - 2020
That defeats the purpose though
Doing it ‘performatively’ is evangelizing and allowing those curious, attracted, or implicitly pressured to meet in an easy to access place that they can literally see in front of them where to go. My biggest problem with this isn’t so much the separation of church & state although that is a problem for me. The bigger problem is the hypocrisy in that the minute a Muslim wants to do the same thing the Christian’s leading the 59 yard line meet up will most likely be the ones working to end the prayer rug situation that is killing the sod. Coincidentally this article from the guardian spells it out pretty plainly that the intention is to flip state to be before church:  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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The Hutchison testimony has moved it some more up to .35 |
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Fwiw one of my Realtors just came in my office to talk about how the Ukrainian Nazi Army is killing their own people and has I seen it!?
This is the sort of shit that he buys into every time, I slyly reminded him about Wayfair selling kids online (which he bought into a few years ago) although his facial expression didn’t look like he got it. My point to this comment is that in their echo chamber (OAN) it’s a truly deep pervasive brain washing Also to add this guys a devout Catholic and staunch Republican… are you shocked at how easy it is to connect the dots? It’s not hard and those on the forum dancing in attempts to break the connection in their postings is simply gaslighting that fact. They are connected, easily connected, and consistent all too often. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Gab is the new home for Russia propaganda and since it's right wing only social media it just circulates in that echo chamber. These people will literally believe anything on the internet from sites no one has heard of but nothing from CNN, MSNBC, ect is true. The Ukrainians are Nazis and Putin has freed tens of thousands of children from trafficking since the war started and Ukraine is also a bio weapons test bed where the Biden crime family hides all their money and conducts their shady deals. |
Alabama cites Roe decision in urging court to let state ban trans health care
Further proof this wasn't just about Roe. They want to be able to ban any Healthcare they don't agree with. My wife is as moderate as they come and thinks both sides overreact to everything. She actually said this morning that this Supreme Court will be the death of this country. |
The stuff about ectopic pregnancies is crazy (especially since it is so common). They have to wait until the patient's vitals start to crash before they can deal with it. So you just wait around until you hit a danger zone.
I guess the other alternative is now sending people to other states if they think they can make it in time. |
Hmmm...this is a strange spread.
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Walker seems like a really bad candidate. I don't know a ton about Georgia politics but it sure seems like they keep shooting themselves in the foot with bad candidates.
Everyone seemed to hate Perdue and Loeffler was doing insider trading while the world burned. Walker sounds like he has advanced CTE. |
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They were able to hide him throughout the primary but they can't for the general and every time he speaks he sounds like a guy that took way too many hits to the head. It wouldn't shock me to see him win on name brand, but I honestly don't see him winning. |
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How DID isn't a complete and total disqualification for public office I'll never know. I really only want him for what he says and his name. He's a number to the R party. Nothing more. He's surely not a bright mind who will represent his district with intelligent ideas and sound policy for the betterment of his constituents.
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Don't underestimate that Warnock is a pretty great candidate. His ads are fantastic, almost completely positive and ingratiating. Even when he goes negative, it's just a clip of Walker talking about magical COVID spray.
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Dems winning Senate at 38 cents now. Wondering when I should sell some to hedge.
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Never underestimate the ability of Democrats to fuck things up between July and November. |
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Yeah . . . the Dems being part of anything that Liz Cheney is not in charge of tends to go badly for them politically. |
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Nice win for NATO (and lesser extent Biden) on the Finland-Sweden-Turkiye "agreement".
I think Finland and Sweden had to compromise their "principles" and face the reality of the situation. Their national security vs some Turkish dissidents and arms sales. Turkey lifts veto on Finland, Sweden joining NATO, clearing path for expansion | Reuters Quote:
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Hmmm. Not sure I agree with this unless the European NATO countries are doing the heavy lifting. Like to better understand the US commitment for boots on the ground. All things held equal, prefer if we focus more on APAC region vs China.
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I think we can all agree we are headed into another Cold War (or already in one). I looked up to see if historians identified when the first Cold War started and found this in wiki
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Didn't watch her testimony but sounds like either Hutchinson or Ornato (who said he's willing to testify to the contrary) is lying or greatly "mis-understood" what was said.
Yes, I would like both SS agents Ornato and Engel to testify under oath and let's see how it plays out. I'm willing to bet if Ornato told Hutchinson this, he probably told a bunch of other SS agents this also, so they should get sworn testimony from the presidential team. ‘Ketchup dripping down the wall’: 5 stunning moments from Cassidy Hutchinson’s Jan. 6 testimony - POLITICO Quote:
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In one term SCOTUS killed abortion access, gun control, tribal sovereignty, the EPA, redistricting reform and the VRA...
What else am I missing? |
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Well, they aren't done yet, soooo |
They took up an independent state legislature case for next term. They'll probably agree that only a state's legislature can set election law, no veto by the governor, review by courts, or initiative by the people. That will mean a gerrymandered legislature can create whatever election law they choose and there's nothing anybody can do about it.
Freedom. |
This theory was attempted back during Bush vs. Gore, but only had 3 votes (Thomas, Scalia, Rehnquist). Kennedy pretty much made fun of the Bush lawyer who attempted to make it during oral arguments.
And he deserved to be made fun of, because the argument is ridiculous. It is based on this clause Quote:
The argument is the legislature may do it and nobody can check or balance that power. It is a fundamental misreading of the constitution, ignores the clear intent of the founders, and lacks even basic common sense. There are many clauses that dictate what Congress may do. Under this theory, the executive or judicial branches could not check those powers because only Congress is mentioned. I'm sorry, but James Madison didn't write Federalist 51 and then write a clause intending to give only one branch the power to do something, with no means of checking it whatsoever. |
The media is so bad at its job. So many articles with a headline saying SCOTUS struck down the Remain in Mexico policy. They didn't do that at all. They said Biden could end the policy. The policy could still be re-implemented by a future President.
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I don't think it's a fundamental misreading, I think they all know it's bullshit. But it gives them power and that's the only justification they can to ending democratic elections. |
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I'm much less anti-Biden than most. But if that really was the deal, then I'm glad it got scuttled.
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Biden looks like a chump making a deal like that, considering the past 13 years of McConnell.
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I can easily believe Deese mispoke about "liberal world order". But if this is a preview of Biden/Dem's mid-term messaging, I think its a bad idea.
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An article I read today said that story (or an approx) has been circulating around the SS agents. It may come down to the definition of "lunge" but think there is enough there to say Hutchinson didn't completely make it out of thin air. |
I think Pritzker might run against Biden. He has been taking shots at Biden lately and has been surprisingly good here in Illinois.
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No, they don't want that. "Sending it back to the states" is just step one until they regain enough power to implement a nationwide ban or, in the interim given a full legislative session, implement criminal penalties and extra-territorial jurisdiction laws to stop all abortions.
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No, I mean they want pregnant 10yo.
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Why? Why do you think it was an errant statement? |
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They would use messaging like “all life matters” and that “Mary was only 12-14 when she gave birth to Jesus.” Def need to be locking up whomever raped a 10 year old though. Prob a family member |
The entire "all life matters" argument is not really accurate. It's more accurate to say that unborn life is more important than a living, breathing human. Because if you're forcing said living, breathing human to carry to term, without regard for any circumstance that got it there, or what damage it might do to the living, breathing human carrying it. That says that there's a clear pecking order of importance to me.
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As the ruling said, they want to increase the supply. |
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The funniest part of this is that it's really an evolutionary argument (i.e., you exist just to transmit genes to the next generation; once you've replicated enough to ensure your genetic survival and a bit of diversity, you cease to matter.) Nobody ever mentions that in church, though. |
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One guy running for something somewhere (I forget who and for what, not worth giving that much thought to said jackass) asserted that marriage should be solely for procreating (and hence, no same-sex coupling). So, um, yeah -- we finished up on that 20 years ago. I guess my wife and I should be required to divorce? Or for that matter every woman past child-rearing age? (My mom's second marriage immediately came to mind. Shouldn't have been allowed at all.) |
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It's terrible doctrine, and I've never heard it preached in any actual church I've ever attended...though I have heard it from politicians and the sort of evangelists who have television shows and radio programs (or these days, I suppose TikToks and YouTube channels.) I'd explain all of the ways it's wrong, but you probably don't want to read it and I don't want to look up all the references. Let's just say it's roughly equivalent to boiling football down to "if you have the ball, you should only be trying to score." |
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This was the argument made by conservatives in the Obergfell and other gay marriage cases. I don't for a second think they actually believed it,but had to come up with some legal theory for why they could justify gay marriage bans. The conservative lawyers were asked those very same questions during oral arguments and didn't have a good answer, because there isn't one. Unfortunately, three of the justices in dissent are still on the court today, and they would only need two of Barrett, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh to overturn that ruling. |
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Durbin and Schumer can and should make it clear that they won't hold a vote on this nominee.
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They haven't given much of a shit about judicial nominees. They've been slow to confirm and there is a good chance they won't be able to confirm anymore come next year.
This was something Harry Reid was actually really good at. |
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They've been slow to confirm lately, but through June 1 of Biden's 2nd year he has more confirmations than any President going back to Reagan. Trump confirmations took off at this point in his presidency out of the remote fear of losing Senate though. My problem with the confirmations is the dems are still adhering to the norms that the GOP shit on. The two Tennessee senators don't like Andre Mathis. Who gives a shit? Confirm him and move on. I also expect the dems to go back to norms when it comes to a lame duck senate if they lose the midterms. Ignoring the fact that McConnell hammered 14 judges through with a lame duck senate. |
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They're adhering to the norms that only one side adheres to. There are a ton of judicial openings. They still don't have a bunch of other positions like a head of FCC in place. It's a colossal failure. |
The article is proposing Hillary as best to run in 2024. I don't necessarily agree she is the best but agree she is prob better than a Biden or Kamala as of right now (and I do want to see who else pops up).
Yes, I think she can beat Trump in 2024 assuming we are still not in the throes of a recession/depression/inflation/stagflation etc. Now more than ever, Democrats need Hillary Clinton | The Hill Quote:
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I'm all for picketing and protesting at justices houses assuming it's lawful and following the rules (e.g. supposedly there were bullhorns which may or not be approved?). I'm also okay for them to be provided extra protection.
Sure its intimidation, payback. And it won't change any of their minds. The protests will eventually go away, and if not, the justices can move to a nice multi-story condo. |
Maybe they should do the kind of peaceful protesting Trump et al are claiming happened on Jan 6th?
Something tells me if a bunch of people wielding rainbow flags with spikes on the end broke through ACBs windows with a gallows erected out front they those on the right would look at it differently. |
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I'm a big weirdo who actually liked Hillary and Jeb. These managers-who-can-actually-run-things types really appeal to me. But running a candidate like that in 2022 is party suicide. The Dems ran Hillary. She was super unpopular and lost. No need to rerun that show. |
I do wonder if there are a lot of people who voted Trump, or stayed home, then after witnessing the continued horror show would vote Hillary almost as a do over.
Fool me once and all that stuff.... |
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Not sure about that, and I'm certainly not willing to bet on it. From '16 to '20 his vote total went up by close to 12MM. |
I can’t imagine a pairing as destructive for this country as Clinton - Trump, so I assume that’s exactly what will happen.
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Yeah, what else does Biden have to do (and worry about) besides your SO and personally respond. Sorry she is caught up in geopolitics & Ukrainian stuff but nah, pretty low on the priority list.
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Speaking of do overs, I wonder if Hillary's campaign staff would have her make at least one visit to the state of Wisconsin? |
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I saw a comment that if it was LeBron he'd already be out. Probably true, but what if it was Allen Iverson? |
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