I'm assuming he means that giving to the church is considered charity. And the church may or may not use that money to help other people (some prosperity gospel churches may not, for instance).

Is all charitable giving the same? If the act giving directly benefits my afterlife and my standing with the community and my taxes, and only indirectly helps others, is it still charity?

I'd say if it goes to things that help others(soup kitchens, shelters, women's centers that assist those who are pregnant is directly on point here, adoption services, etc.) then that is the important thing germane to this discussion. There are always going to be various motives for giving, but if someone demonstrates the 'fruit' of putting their money where their mouth is or whether they don't would seem to be the point here. So basically my response to your statement is that I was neither purposely not getting it nor conveniently ignoring it; now that I've heard it, I find it irrelevant.

This kind of shit is why I can never be a registered Democrat even though I tend to vote with them more often. So giving to a faith-based charity basically "doesn't count," but simply holding the opinion that other people who make more money than you should pay more in taxes makes you morally superior and enlightened.

Edit: If I wanted to donate to a secular homeless shelter in my town, I couldn't, that doesn't exist. There are a few associated with churches though - and you don't even have to go to any church services or get preached to to get help there. Should donations and volunteer time to that organization count when we're measuring one's generosity, or should it be excluded (as I often see done depending on who is measuring the generosity) because god and churches are generally icky? If this kind of stuff annoys me, who just voted about 90% Democrat, I can understand why so many people vote the way they do.

Little polling humor. As I mentioned in another thread, my father-in-law was diagnosed with Parkinson's over a decade ago, so he can sometime struggle with simple tasks due to mid-level dementia. I had already voted a couple weeks ago, but I took him to vote. He marked his ballot (he's a Trump supporter) and he took it over to the machine that double checks accuracy and counts the vote.

He slid in the ballot and it popped back out. A small piece of paper was printed out that said 'President/Vice President -- Overvote'. I took his ballot and checked it out. There were five choices for President. He voted for every person EXCEPT Hillary Clinton. We went back and got a new ballot to get it fixed.

I sent a text to my wife telling her what happened. She said 'Well, Dad may have some issues, but he made it pretty clear he's NOT a fan of Hillary Clinton.'

All charitable giving helps your taxes and probably your standing with the community.

I don't know of any faith where how much your give to the religious institutions affects your salvation.

When I was in 3rd grade my much bigger brother jumped on me. That night I woke up around midnight and could not move my leg. Went to hospital, they ran test on me for couple hours. Got a room but it took hours to go to sleep. All I wanted to walk in life again. Finally went to sleep and I woke up about 2 hours later and I could move my leg fine. If you can't walk than maybe you get my sympathy. But you should still feel lucky to have the life you have. I don't feel sorry for Black people having to deal with handful of racist idiots. I don't feel sorry for white people who don't get a job because they are wrong race. I don't feel sorry for people, people should be happy. Things can get so much worse. I don't think of people as black or white, just as people. I feel sorry for people that don't have any chance at all. That is how I push myself, never feel sorry for yourself. Enjoy life. I always have huge smile on my face. Just how I deal with life. Your way might not be wrong, just isn't right for me.



My cousin posted something on fb for Christians not to vote trump, I guess I didn't know her.... she is sweet. joking aside. I don't know how a person can like clinton who does not give a person a chance at all.... I usually like to pester the hell out of people because life is so precious and if I can't get under their skin than it makes me feel good to see they are also happy and play off something I do. Be an asshole to someone and they play back at you, it doesn't get much better than that.


He is more Americanism than Globalism unlike Clinton. I can only hope he does a good job like he did in business and be more presidential than real estate mogul. Know who Clinton is and like someone said they'd slap themselves before voting Clinton.

I get it, and it is an over reaction. BUT...saying Utah is the most charitable state should come with some caveats, in my opinion.

And, unlike many, I guess, I think baseball is a religion and my expenses should be considered charity, especially after that Giants season. :D

/runs google image search on "Catholic cathedrals," "Mormon temples"

Ouch, as part of Trump's lawsuit against Nevada (for letting people in line when polls closed vote, which is pretty much settled law).. the Trump lawyers wanted the right to make Nevada poll workers information public and searchable on the internet.

The judge basically said: "Yeah, LOLNO"

Deadspin on Twitter: "The Trump campaign wants to make names of Nevada poll workers public. Judge's response: https://t.co/tes99IMbbH"

Please, you Giants get no sympathy... now if you were a Padres or Mariners fan... ;)

I guess this would be this year's equivalent:

Votecastr Election Day Turnout Tracker

I think the answer may be here for Quik as well.

Paging 2004.

Nothing you write makes any sense, as for the last part. He has made his money by screwing the average American worker (read about how he handles payments to his contractors) and outsourcing everything overseas. He also pays no taxes because he can. There is absolutely nothing "Americanism" than him other than what he shouts because people like to hear it.

As for the first part of your rant, I'm glad you enjoy life because you could not walk for 2 hours. Perhaps a little perspective on what the majority of people have to go through would do you well.

Forget Florida. If you believe that, get in on Hillary winning Iowa & Ohio. (I think Hillary wins comfortably, but very much doubt she wins both those states.)

He didn't do a good job in business. His real estate business has been pretty poor considering what he started with and where the economy has grown to in the past 40 years. His other business ventures have failed miserably. His Dad had to bail him out numerous times.

The only area he has done well in is branding his image. Most of the crap you see with Trump's name on it aren't his businesses. He just licenses the name. He deserves credit for that just like the Kardashian's deserve credit for branding themselves to the consumer market. I don't want either to be President though.

Trump's a late night TV salesman standing in front of a sports car telling you how rich he is and how rich he'll make you.

Hillary just jumped to -900 at my sportsbook. So it seems like someone has some inside info.

Yay early voting ... it meant I was in & out today in the shortest time ever needed since moving here a decade ago. Some of that was lucky timing (around 330p) but they'd been slow for at least a couple of hours.

Hit during dinner lull. In and out in 5 minutes.

1st polls are 13 minutes from closing.

These Kentucky returns are not at all what Trump needs.

— Sean T at RCP (@SeanTrende) November 8, 2016

This is going to be a short night.

— Sean T at RCP (@SeanTrende) November 8, 2016

Heh. And KY called for Trump anyway.

2016 Election Results: President Live Map by State, Real-Time Voting Updates - POLITICO

it begins

I'm not convinced it will ever end

Computer glitches in North Carolina? lol

Oh FFS! :banghead:

Probably was referring to the margins he's getting in specific areas, demographic-related turnout is, AFAIK, the main thing they look at early.

This is kind of cool.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president

Georgia still too close to call, not a good sign for Trump.

North Carolina being termed too early to call, also bad news for him.

Early, and seemingly expanding, lead for Clinton in Ohio.

The south always votes for southern democrats. I know Hillary is from the north but her husband is Bill Clinton. Bill and Jimmy Carter both won the southern atlantic states when they ran.

Curiosity question. Are some of you guys following the presidential portion of the results out of entertainment value? I mean, there's no doubt what the outcome will be, but I suppose there is entertainment seeing what the final score will be.

msn map shows trump waaaay ahead in Georgia. 69% to 29% w/ pop vote 2+ to 1 for him.

Yes. I was a political science major. Tonight is like watching a sporting event for me... What's the final score going to be?

Watching CNN, it's like watching playcalling at the slowest speed setting on FOF.

NYT projector pretty strong on Trump in FL.

Good answers, thanks.

BTW, you know how everyone knew trump was in trouble?

At one point, he was ahead in states called, 3-1.

That's the mark of DOOM this year. ;)

No kidding. As in Every. Single. Sports. Meme. on Facebook the past several months.

Remember everyone, automatic recount in Florida should the vote come in within 0.5%! (According to the website I found just now when I googled it). The same for Pennsylvania.

Chad is on the gallows again in FL.

NBC just flipped Virginia to too close to call. CBS has Virginia as "leaning" Dem, and North Carolina as a Dem "edge". Trying to get a little more specific with the closeness.

NBC changes North Carolina to too close to call.

Florida definitely heading for a recount.

Not sure about that on FL. Trump's lead is expanding, and it looks like the biggest remaining uncounted sectors are all deep red.

Dumb question - these votes are just in some database, right? How do you recount? Rerun the sql query?

A lot of places still use hole-punch ballots, fill-in-the-circle ballots, absentee ballots are hand written, and all (I think all) computer voting systems can print out a record of each vote. So all of those need to be hand counted for a recount.

Seems like a good swing for Trump the last 20 minutes or so based on the betting lines, 538, and that nify NYTimes thing Rainmaker posted.

Edit: Clinton all the way down to 61% on the NY Times thing (she was around 80% earlier). That seems low since Trump still has to pull off all these swing states that are very close right now

I'm down.

Thanks. I guess I didn't realize that since Georgia has had electronic voting for quite a while and you'd think people would learn after the handing chad fiasco.

This has been Florida's MO for the last few cycles, iirc.

It would be cool if Wolf Blitzer didn't talk over King when he's explaining the map constantly.

LOL he might win this. Markets are tanking.

Very possible Clinton wins popular vote by a few million, yet Trump gets 272 or something like that. Clinton needs either Virginia or North Carolina. If she loses both, she'll probably lose the election.

268 - 268 still a possibility, boys!

NY Times has it as a 50/50 tossup

She's doing bad in Michigan. Trump might win that too.

Trump dominating rural areas far more than Romney. Maybe a hidden Trump vote after all.

ORLY!?

Time to panic.

True. I am shocked Michigan is that close. A week ago I would have -- did have -- say it was near-impossible.

I'm probably putting too much into whatever this weird NY Times projection tool is, but it's still surreal to see this:

"Our best guess right now is that Donald Trump is on track to win."

"53% Trump"

NYT meter is going berserk!

Wonder if the Clinton camp is second guessing spending their time in places like Arizona and Texas in the last week or two of the campaign right about now.

Nate Silver clowned all the other "analysts" again. I know he didn't have Trump winning but he said this race would be much closer than people think and was the only projection site that had it remotely close.

This feels like brexit all over again. What a complete nightmare

Absolutely moronic decision. The kind you would imagine is going to go down in textbooks for years to come.

I bet Clinton to win but I did bet Trump to win Michigan!

DOW futures fell to 500 points down! Haven't seen that since 2008.

McMullen in Utah possibly? Congress selects him since they can't stand either of the other two?

The Ohio numbers are interesting. Talking about Warren County Ohio where I live. The numbers for Trump are down from previous elections, BUT the votes were not going to Clinton who is underperforming Obama.

EDIT: There were several people I know that normally vote Republican going to Johnson.

Starting to look like I might need to restart my German lessons.

Much like the campaign itself, this election is going to set some new trends on how exit polls/early results are judged. It's pretty clear that the electorate is not following the script thus far. Doesn't mean Trump is going to win, but it's certainly a different electorate we're seeing for this election.

Deutsch ist nicht schwer. Du kannst es lernen.

It was going quite well, but job searching/trying to get my comps and proposal defenses passed for my PhD caused it to fall by the wayside for a while.

Fox News projects Virginia for Clinton.

So it seems like it comes down to Michigan? If she doesn't win that, she's pretty much toast.

Yeah, unless a sudden shift in North Carolina happens.

Or she'd have to win Arizona but that seems like a pie in the sky.

Yeah, it looks like Hillary is down to her holding her firewall to squeak by - CO, MI, VA, NV. Also needs to hold WI and MN.

So what does this do for political polling? Even if this is a narrow Clinton win, they are spectacularly wrong again.

Clintons best path seems to be through Arizona, which is pretty incredible by itself

She's not winning Arizona.

I don't see Michigan holding up for Trump. Only a tiny % of Detroit has reported.

Does Wisconsin impact things if she wins Michigan? Because it's not looking good for her in Wisconsin either.

Wow. Just wow. Updated by the minute.

https://electionbettingodds.com/

She needs both. Either one means President Trump.

If I heard right Wisconsin to Trump but Michigan to Clinton opens up a plausible path to a 269-269 tie. Think HRC needs to win NH & ME-2 in that one.

Yes, if Clinton wins Michigan but loses Wisconsin, that puts them both very near 270. If that happens, how Nebraska and Maine's split votes go could decide the race.

In fact, but my map, if all of the other states go the way they are looking (FL and NC to Trump), if all of Maine's votes go to Clinton, and all of Nebraska's votes go to Trump, and Clinton wins Michigan but loses Wisconsin, that would make it 269-269.

Hillary gets to 270 or Trump wins. No way the House would pick her and no way the base would let them not pick Trump.

Not looking good in NH and almost no chance of ME-2. If she loses any of her firewall she's toast.

If Trump weren't willing to tear up all our post WW2 security agreements and put the world in great peril, I'd be fascinated to see the fallout for the GOP now that they seem to be abandoning almost all of the issues they said were important just four years ago.

Ohio to Trump.

538 now has Trump as a favorite.

It would be spectacular to see the reaction if a few thousand people in Maine make this 271-269 however. The spectacle of this would be amazing if it wasn't so damn terrifying.

538 blog says trump at 55% to win

Have you ever seen the movie where the white trash dude is the only vote needed in a tied presidential election?

Welp, this would make two great cases against democracy in 6 months.

I wonder if we'd get pre-campaign obnoxious but liberal Trump, or post-campaign obnoxious and conservative Trump as president.

I'm really working through the scenarios of what a Trump presidency would be like. Best case, he focuses on branding and doesn't use the office to lash out at whoever he perceives his enemies to be. And the rest of the U.S. political "establishment" takes this as a huge wake-up call that America thinks they suck hard. It could be a real jolt into the way all of us are used to doing things, in politics, business, and everything else. I understand the appeal of that from people who are struggling in the rural U.S. I voted Clinton because I'm a conservative, in that I want to keep the status quo and make improvements, but generally stay on the same course. Trump is not the "conservative" choice here in that sense, he's the opposite.

Looking at 2012, Wayne County went for Obama 393,884 to Romney 90,550.***

Right now, 33% of Wayne is in, Hillary ~140,000 to Trump ~75,000.

Edit: *** Looks like these numbers were off. Must have been looking at the wrong thing. 2012 in Wayne County, according to Politico, was 595,253 for Obama and 213,586 for Romney