I'm silly - I didn't even read my own link fully!

Oh, and:

Random Personalities. With that on, you don't know how the A.I. is going to react.

Which begs the question, for a regular main game, why would anyone play so you know how the AI is going to react? For scenarios, absolutely (to keep in line with specific historical events) but not for the main game and not for replay value. I remember all of the discussions prior to Civ3 (and I assume it's the same way for Civ4) about getting all of the nationalities "correct" and "accurate". Seems like the biggest selling point for the first expansion pack was the addition of new "accurate" nationalities. I just didn't get all of the time and effort that was spent on this and why this was so critical to the game.

It still cracks me up thinking about Gandhi warning that his "words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"

For the immersion factor. It plays out like a story, which historical figures demonstrating their historical traits. I play games like Civ, FAR more for their immersive qualities than to 'win, win, win'.

Imran, that's the exact same reason I play scenarios instead.

if leaders aren't true to form then why even bother having the leaders at all?

I prefer immersion in my regular game as well as scenarios.

This is also the reason I LOVE 'fluff' like spoken quotes, wonder movies (which I watch every time), etc.

Exactly.

Leaders are fine, all nations have had them, but should they be static and predictable when we are re-creating history (as oppose to re-playing history)?

Yes.

Next question?

It's a GAME. G-A-M-E. There is nothing wrong with them being static. People usually don't change that much in their world outlook after they've reached the top.

Let it go. :p

People usually don't stay on top (or act the same way) for 6000 years either. :p

Refer back to my first two sentances... ie, it being a GAME.

Though if you really want it realistic, I hope you have 6000 years to devote to it ;).

It's just that I can't forget what Firaxis did to Pirates! in turning that into a one-and-done game. Civ obviously is a deeper game but as long as they have the option to randomize leader/national traits, then it's cool.

Yeah, what else do you really need? If its random, then you'll get your surprises. The thing that won't change is the unique units each Civ has though.

I agree that being able to randomize leader personalities will add to replay value and I want to see that option available.

I and I think others, were just saying that the whole point of having leaders be historically accurate is that that is the whole reason they are in there.

It's an option, because I would find it a little odd to see Ghandi invading my ass. They should just have generic leaders for games played with random leader attributes/attitudes. It'll be lame to see pacifise Mussolini or whatever...

I understand. You would find it odd to see "ghandi" invading your ass so therefore you know ahead of time that if you find them next to you, you don't have to worry about them coming after you militarily. You would have to stop them in other ways but it is kinda funny in a long-term strategy game that you would already know what they will not do. I wish they AI had the same kind of foresight and planned accordingly.

Gotta side with Bucc on this one. I always randomized the leaders in Alpha Centauri for this exact reason. The game loses something when you knew exactly how your opponents would react, and exactly how to make them like you/piss them off.

then why bother with leaders at all? just have the country be run by some no-named person with a picture if you want it all random. have the country run by "America" with some male picture and have it random if you want it that way...

YEah - I think there is value in that. If I'm playing a randomized game, I wish I could turn of the leaders, so to speak.

Can't wait for this to come out. Somebody make Oct. 24th come faster.

Ditto. Even with the concern about the date moving up, I can't wait to pick this one up.

i going to wait and see.

i want to see how the AI will be in the game first. i want to see how smart the AI will be with all the new features and how they act.

We heard you the first SIX times, Captain Obvious.

Sheesh.

I am obligated to forget the assfest of Civ3 and purchase this in hopes that it will be Civ 1 or Civ 2 again.

I frankly don't give a rats ass about the leaders. Never did. If they had a collection of random pictures for leaders, I'd be all for it.

Knowing what other civ's tendencies are before the game even starts is a flat out minus in my book. The major draw of starting new games in Civ is that unknown factor. I like not knowing what to expect this time out.

I'm not sure what would be worse...SD having all 6 of those jbmagic quotes ready to be posted, or him finding them all in 13 minutes.

Any word on how the AI is shaping in this one?

It didn't take that long to find them. Just did a Ctrl-F a bunch of times. They're all in this thread.

I was going to buy it out-right, but I think now I am going to wait to see how the AI looks.

If the AI looks crappy, it can ruin the game. I will wait to see if it is smart and makes good decisions.

I'm really concerned about the AI. I may wait awhile to see what the report on it is.

All I care about is pretty new bells and whistles. I don't need no stinkin' AI.

That's you all over. All about the flash. :D

like Total Pro Football :)

Someone request more Flasch?

Who knew jbmagic was such an Iverson fan?

So, any AI updates in the last hour or so?

What about the AI?

AI was very bad, i expected more from a Steven Spielberg movie. i had high expectations for that one.

Since you were the first to nail Civ3, I look forward to hearing your review.


What about teh AI? :)

Bucc - Do you know if Tony Blair and the English are going to attack the U.S.? Do you know if Jaques Chirac will attack the U.S.? Chances are, they probably won't. If Osama Bin Laden was the leader of a country, do you think he would poison the water supply in an American city, or perhaps detonate a nuclear device in a large American city?

Don't be so quick to poo-poo the predictability of leaders.

However, I do agree that since this is a game, and since it is designed to be played over and over, allowing the leaders to have different traits in different games is an acceptable design decision. Therefore it is perfect that you can turn it off, or leave it on, if that suits your style and preference.

Buzzer, the British attacked us in 1775 and in 1812.

It appears that they are going to go the same route as Civ III with the addons to the main game. I have no problem shelling out $50 for a good game but then to shell out another $50 for an addon(like PTW) is a bit painful. Also, I was a first day puchaser of Civ III and while the game wasn't unplayable out of the box the first patch(which was out in like 24 hours if I remember correctly) was a major, major, upgrade. Does this concern anyone else?

I think this is what it comes down to which if I am not recalling incorrectly, Civ3 did not have (and of course neither did Civ2) and that's cool. I think my point is that if anyone played a game like Imperialism II or EU or HoI know that alliances/enemies do change over time - even with the same leader.

dixieflatline: How about getting burned for $79.95 on the bogus Civ3 Limited Edition? As you read earlier, I think some are wait-and-see when they announced they will be releasing earlier so Take 2 can make some money. But they will and people will scoop up the many expansion packs as they always have done.

oh sorry wrong thread

Bucc was there, after all.

You know what really fun... the 3d camera allows for some interesting stuff. Such as, you can now play a top down mode like CivI, and it seems that is the preferred view for reviewers/Firaxis judging from screenies.

Hopefully it'll run on my system, but I've preordered that CivIV "Bible version" preorder for $45 on Amazon.

Apolyton's hands-on preview

http://civilization4.net/3/169/