In response to SI's original question, I'll agree that Nathan and Rivera are worth those deals, and also to me are the only ones that are "better" deals than K-Rod's.

I agree. K-Rod's deal is better than all of the other ones he put up. A lot better, actually.

(now, admittedly, I'm biased, because we don't have a new stadium, or any of that fun stuff)

I think it's REALLY hypocritical for New York teams to be handing out big contracts in this economy while crying to the State to help them with regards to their two new stadiums.

The city also plans to issue $341.2 million in additional tax-exempt bonds on behalf of the Yankees and Mets to complete the stadiums, whose combined cost is about $2.2 billion. The teams are responsible for paying off the bonds, but they pay tens of millions of dollars less in interest because payments to bondholders are exempt from city, state and federal taxes.

In fairness, they get the tax-exempt bonds because they can. If they didn't get them, they would still be handing out big contracts.

And the Mets' hand in that is about $83MM I believe.

ahem...Papelbon?

Papelbon doesn't have a deal.

From the WTF files ..

The Rangers have inquired about Gary Sheffield. I love Sheff but he needs to go. He is a drain on the payroll. If the Rangers offer a guy with a torn up elbow and will take most of the contract, I say god speed.

Re-reads the posts coming from that. Papelbon isn't one of the closers listed.

So approximately $230 million in "assistance", saving them tens of millions of dollars. In the middle of the worst recession since the Great Depression.

Let's not forget that the Yankees can avoid paying more luxury tax by claiming stadium expenses. How is that bloody fair? (and yes, I know Boston has advantages because of owning NESN, etcetera allowing them to slide money about, but that's cents on the dollar compared to this)

I love it when Red Sox fans and New York fans (either team) complain about available money and what not from the other teams.

+1

And I'm a Cubs fan, so I know better and just sit these things out.

My point is I don't follow your original connection between "team saves tens of millions because of the bonds" and "team spends big money on contracts." They would be spending that money regardless of whether or not they had to pay those taxes.

Whether or not the teams should be contributing less tax revenue than they could be in a time when the city is short of tax revenue is a separate debate. And I don't see where that blame doesn't first go to the city.

Hey don't pick on me, I'm not claiming poverty.

Hopefully the Royals fans will come in so we can all gang up on them instead. ;)

What do Yankees and Red Sox fans have in common?

Both teams' fans watched the Phillies win the World Series last year.

:D

I get at least three more months of this glory, so I'm going to squeeze every last bit of juice out of it. :)

What % of appearances have to be "lights out" for a guy to be a lights out closer?

Joe Nathan played in 68 games last year - and in only 26 of them did he not give up a hit or a walk. (38%)

It is pretty silly, but maybe a little less so if you're in favor of a salary cap (I'm not complaining about the Yankees, I'd love to see a salary cap, know it will never happen, and root for contraction/relocation to more viable cities as a more realistic secondary solution to MLB's problems).

Sox fans SHOULD sit that discussion out, yes. But really, they should sit almost every discussion out.

-If you think the MLB economic system is fine, you're obnoxious
-If you think the MLB economic system is unfair (including the benefits to your own team), you're obnoxious
-If you can complain about a player holding out in the middle of a playoff race, you're obnoxious
-If you stick up for an asshole player or coach, you're obnoxious
-If you speak out against an asshole player, you're running him out of town unfairly.
-If you just talk about the success of the team, you're obnoxious.

(And yes, making a list like this is ABSOLUTELY obnoxious).

Oddly enough, the biggest asshole fans I ever came across weren't at Yankee Stadium, but at Coors Field. There's assholes everywhere. Most of them are newer fans, who come in with a college football mentality.

oh - i thought we were talking about shutdown closers who were good value for the $$ they were making

JJ Putz is a Met. Talk about fixing a pen.

10:17pm: MLB.com's Jim Street confirmed the deal. The Mariners give up Putz, Green, and Reed and get Heilman, Chavez, Carp, and Gutierrez. The Indians give up Gutierrez and get Valbuena and Smith. The Mets give up Heilman, Chavez, Carp, and Smith to get Putz, Green, and Reed.

Also Ken Rosenthal reporting the Yanks are offering Burnett 5 years/91 mil.

Unreal.

Not a bad deal. Carp has some breakout potential, but most likely he ends up being a below average 1b. He's a good gamble for the Mariners. Heilman needed a change of scenery and hopefully for him the Mariners give him the chance to start that he's been pushing for. I'll take Reed over Chavez any time. Putz obviously fills a need.

Really excited about these Mets deals. Plus I now have a reason to watch Mariners games. It's a win-win

Red Sox looking at John Smoltz. I'd much rather have him for 1-2 years than any of Sabathia, Burnett, Lowe (reportedly offered 4/66m by NYY) or even Sheets at the numbers being thrown around.

Tigers send OF Matt Joyce to the Rays for SP Edwin Jackson.

Especially in the event that it may be another 38 years, huh?

love the Putz deal, especially on top of signing KRod. not saying KRod is lights out material, but we needed a closer, got the best available, and only 3 yrs. I read the article on espn about Putz, his agent says he doesnt wanna be a setup man.

Joyce is going to be a stud. Horrible deal for the Tigers, who are having a horrible off-season.

Don't blame us. We're up to $70-75M in payroll now. That's crazy money for the Royals considering we only were spending $30M 5 years ago ($10M of which was Mike Sweeney).

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/salary/index?athleteId=3708887

Salary Crunch

Putz was quoted, "It’s a new challenge and I’m excited about it… I’m going to a new team that’s going to be very competitive. Francisco Rodriguez is a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen."

So at least he should be okay for now. This is exactly what we needed. I was hoping Heilman could be wheeled for Street, but Putz is much more effective. The biggest piece given up is really Joe Smith, and Green should be able to fill his role.

Jeremy Reed was a fairly high profile prospect correct? Maybe we get lucky there but can anyone tell me about his speed/defense since it looks like he'll be filling Chavez' role.

P.S. 5 years, $91 million for AJ Burnett is infuckingsane.

Do you mean 28? :confused:

Add about 4mil to that number...

A source with knowledge of the negotiations told ESPN's Steve Phillips that Kyle Farnsworth has agreed to a two-year, $9.25 million deal with the Kansas City Royals, pending the results of a physical.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=37617466

Good deal. We needed a setup man after trading away Nunez and Ram Ram.

By the way, I got a pretty good look at the Kauffman Stadium renovations a week ago. As nice as that stadium was before, it's going to be even better after they finish up the renovation. It already looks incredible and it's not even complete.

:eek:

Awesome offseason so far for the Mets!

You still need a setup man :).

Mike Cameron to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera..

Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel says the deal is close but not done, and Bill Hall could also be going the Yankees way to bring CC's buddies from Milwaukee to New York.

Please get Bill Hall out of the NL. He's been a Reds killer:

.303/.375/.613 with 54 RBIs in 66 games started.

I hate Bill Hall.

He was a Brewer killer last year, also.

.225/.293./.396

Yeah, that's a bad deal. Farnsworth is not Riske, Dotel, or Mahay. A couple of months into the season, the Royals are going to be scrambling for someone to get the ball to the 9th and Soria.

I figured 1yr/$3M range but 2/9 is awful for him.

SI

Quote:

Phillies close to signing Chan Ho Park By Tim Brown, Yahoo! Sports 13 hours, 23 minutes ago LAS VEGAS – Free-agent pitcher Chan Ho Park, who resurrected his career with a solid year as a Dodger middle reliever, is close to signing with the Philadelphia Phillies, a baseball source said Wednesday. The Phillies might view Park as a starter, the source said, although the 35-year-old right-hander made only five starts last season in 54 appearances. He was 4-4 with 79 strikeouts and a 3.40 ERA in 95 1/3 innings, mostly as a setup man. Philadelphia has a strong bullpen, with right-handers Chad Durbin and Ryan Madson setting up closer Brad Lidge. However, the Phillies need a fifth starter if they don’t re-sign left-hander Jamie Moyer. Another Phillies pitcher, Kyle Kendrick, has been mentioned in the three- or four-team trade that would send Jake Peavy from the San Diego Padres to the Chicago Cubs. Park has been a starter for most of his 13-year career but hasn’t been especially effective in that role since 2001

Please God no.

He /won't/ be a starter. I'm still waiting to see what happens with the Peavy trade before I start jumping to conclusions. The Paulino trade may be actually to flip to the Marlins, so it seems the Phils are just in a holding pattern on potential deals.

He was. It turned out he has zero power whatsoever. He's not that fast either so think Jason Tyner+ without the speed. He's probably average defensively with a minus arm.

Big part of the trade, clearly.

Why didn't the Mariners wait until July or next winter to move Putz? It's obviously a buyer's market in general, but for closers it's an extreme buyer's market.

Awesome, nice to have a reminder of our former 1st round pick.


Wondered the same thing when I first heard they were making him available, but I also thought they'd be bringing more back in the deal than what they ended up with. Maybe Seattle is worried he won't bounce back from his injuries?

I don't mind Park. He's not there to be your #2 starter, he's either the 5th starter or the 6th reliever. He's gotta eat innings and I'm sure he's not making a fortune. His fastball supposedly went up 4MPH last year so he's aging well. My only concern would be that Joe Torre might have worn him out which is his pattern with relievers.

They got a good deal. Gutierrez fills an immediate hole in CF for cheap, Heilman will fill a bullpen spot, probably as a setup guy, and Chavez is Jeremy Reed except he can run and play defense. Throw in some middling prospects and it makes a lot of sense, especially since whoever closes won't have a whole lot to do.

"Fill a spot" is right.

"Adequately fill a spot" would have been going too far.

Yes, they got a bunch of adequate guys for what had been one of the better young closers around.

Mariners did well.

Heilman is still very young and needed a change of scenery and Chavez plays gold glove caliber defense.

Heilman is 30, hardly anything close to very young. Yes, a change of scenery could help him, but the problem remains that he wants to be a starter despite only being able to throw two pitches. You can get away with that as a reliever, but not as a starter -- and he has completely self-destructed when it comes to relieving. Also, he wasn't even an effective starter when he was given the opportunity, save for the one-hitter he threw against the Marlins. The rest of his starts were pretty crappy. Granted the Mets don't make all the right decisions, but considering they couldn't field a starting rotation at times last year, and they had a guy who not only wanted to be put into the rotation but also sucked in his current role in the pen, and they STILL didn't give him the opportunity...that tells me something.

Chavez is definitely a great fielder, but is a defensive replacement/PH only. His hitting gets exposed when he's needed to play a lot. Certainly a great guy to have on your bench though.

I think Logan was right the first time. This says to me that the Mariners don't think Putz will be able to return to his 06-07 form, and took what they could get.

hmm, didn't realize heilman was that old.

I agree with everything you say about him, hence the change of scenery being needed.

That the Mets are idiots? ;)

So what's the truth and what's not the truth? re: Teixeira

I am hearing rumors that the Red Sox and Nats have jumped to an 8th year. Angels have gone 7, and seem set to stay there. O's I think are still at 7. No word on the Yanks, who are thinking of juimping back in.

Lots of rumors that a lot of this is Boras BS, numbers leaked to the media which may or may not be true, meaning he's doing his usual spin and hoping for bidders bidding against themselves.

I wish the Angels and Red Sox would come out and collectively put their foot down, and say, "Here is what we're offering, and we're not offering a penny more. If you want to go to the Nats or O's, so be it."

Love the Hot Stove league, but hate the games Boras plays. If the Angels and Sox came out like that, it would pretty much neuter his position, because everyone knows Teixeira wants to go to a proven winner at this point.

Edes and Brown were even insinuating that the Angels are beginning to move on.

Teixeira negotiations continue to escalate - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Of course, that too could be posturing, though I will be surprised if the Sox let the Angels outbid them.

And that's the problem, really. The Sox shouldn't be in that mode for a player they don't really need. I guarantee Lowell isn't going to get traded, so their payroll then becomes Yankees-esque, and you can kiss goodbye any sympathy people may still have for the Sox not having a Yanks' payroll.

Of course, all that aside, hell, you would have Teixeira, hard not to ignore other consequences if you have that.

Trib reporting that the Peavy deal is officially off.

Lowell will certainly get traded. And sympathy doesn't do much to win the AL East.

ETA: Its not out of the question that the Sox could sign Teixeira and an $8m pitcher and have their payroll go down from last years 4th highest payroll.

I really wish the Jays would go after Teixeira. Be the perfect bat to put at the #4 spot and really fill out their lineup. Ah well, here's hoping one of the kids can step up and establish themselves as a power hitting threat.

Apparently according to MLBTradeRumors, despite being widely being seen as frantically trying to dump Peavy's $64 Million left on his contract, the Padres were demanding 6 or 7 players for him, and they didn't think anyone was going to bite at that price.

If the Angels sign him, their '09 payroll would be higher than the Red Sox.

Meaning they are much lower than the Sox right now, right? What do the teams' comparative salaries look like if you have $22 M or whatever added to the Sox, and nothing to the Angels? Don't play me that "we're not the Yankees" tune.

Not really. 133-119 in '08 (and far closer after the Manny trade, it may be a dead heat at the moment). You complaining about the Red Sox is far worse than a Red Sox fan complaining about the Yankees (where the difference was 209-133). The difference between the Red Sox and Yankees (76) is the same difference as between the Red Sox and the Royals.

I don't think any of it's "unfair", because that's the system we're in, but I'm just correcting the idea that it's Yanks/Sox, then everyone else. Sox were #4 in payroll last year, and in the ballpark of the White Sox/Angels/Cubs, especially after the Manny trade.

No, I really think it's about the same, in that neither of us should complain abouth other teams' resources. That said, I think it's patently ridiculous to think the Angels are on the same level of revenue stream as the Red Sox.

And, BTW, you paid ALL of Manny's contract, so nice try at an out there, but no dice. So nowhere near a dead heat. You guys could have paid even more last year. We're talking about a team that dropped $50 M just to talk to Dice-K.

If we add Teix right now, we're about $95-100 M for 2009. When was the last time the Red Sox were down there?

The Manny trade is really disingenious of you to even bring up. You actually added salary, in Jason Bay's contract, while paying not a dime less of your original payroll.

I don't really feel guilty about the Red Sox making a lot of money - it's not like any of it's mine. I hope they make shitloads.

I just think it's funny you have this crusade against any Sox fans making reference to the Yankee payroll, and then say that the Sox potentially outbidding the Angels is the "problem".

All three teams are loaded, clearly. But there's still differences between them. You're very aware of the Angels/Sox difference, and apparently find that unfair, but think that the Sox/Yanks difference is irrelevant.

All have more than most other teams, of course. It's just annoying to see the other big markets (bigger than Boston in this case) jump on the Boston villain bandwagon.

BP is reporting the Mets have pulled out of the Derek Lowe bidding and the Yankees could very well walk away with CC, Burnett, and Lowe this offseason.

I don't think it's a "problem". Your word, not mine. I would say it's disappointing. The Red Sox don't need to spend that money. They're already set at the position Teix plays. It's basically a luxury for them. And that difference, that willingness to spend that kinda cash on a luxury, especially when they're already spending what $15-20 M on the "odd man out" in Lowell, is what separates them from the Angels, Cubs, etc. and puts them in Evil Empire range.

To me, that's disappointing, to have to work against that, especially when I see Red Sox fans here complaining about the Yankees (and, yes, Royals fans certainly have the right to bitch at me about the Angels).

Never said it was unfair. The system is what we have right now. But why shouldn't I be disappointed when a big spending team comes along to take away what for the Angels comes down to an out and out need, when it is not really a necessary addition for that big spending team? And then one of the fans of said team comes along and tries to tell me the Angels and Sox are on the same level, while trying to pull a fast one with the numbers (Manny trade) to make his point?

Sorry you're surprised I'm not exactly thrilled with you and your argument at the moment.

See, now we could all get on the bandwagon to hate on this. But like molson says, it's the system we have.

I don't think you shouldn't be disappointed by that at all. Just don't get pissy when a Red Sox fan says EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

I love you out of one side of your mouth you are saying we shouldn't complain about each other's payrolls, and that it's the system, and then with the other side you are bitching about the Red Sox payroll.

And putting them with the Yankees and separating the other teams out, when we are MUCH MUCH closer to you than the Yankees, is comical.

.

Fair enough. But don't try to tell me Red Sox and Angels are on the same level. And don't flat out lie about the Manny deal.

You're right, I chose my words poorly there, and I apologize.

You are much closer to us than the Yankees. That's more about the Yankees. But you guys are on another level from all other teams, except for the Yankees, and you know it.

You're right on Manny, I shouldn't have taken that out of equation, that was an oversight.

A "lie" would be like you saying above that the Sox would be in "Yankee territory" if they signed Teixeira. That would only happen if they gave him about $80 million for next year. (actually I don't think that's a lie either, just an exaggeration)

You are misconstruing "Yankees territory". I have already spoken about exorbitant spending on "luxuries". Your starting 1B last year was, IMO, the best player on your team, including the MVP he plays next to.

You are in Yankees territory in that you have reached the level where you can spend huge amounts on unnecessary additions, outspending teams who actually need the assets you're spending them on.

They are the #2 revenue team. They actually should be spending way more.

Only the #7 market though.

The difference can be accounted for by insane ticket prices, and enormous interest locally that creates a lucrative TV situation.

I also missed where you were whining about the Tigers and Mets payrolls. The Sox are losing at least $34 million off their payroll from last year. As of right now, they're probably around $100m.

Chief, one reason they can afford to go after Teixiera is that many of the players they use are homegrown and still under their rookie contracts or early in arbitration. The ability to go after Teixiera is their reward for drafting and developing well.

The Tigers and Mets haven't won any world series lately. Therefore, they're not hated.

It's a simple equation.

and they don't have as vocal a fan base. (agreed, some of us are quite easy to hate, but that's not the main thing behind it)

Angels and Red Sox fans arguing about payrolls might be the one thing more annoying than the constant crying by fans of small market teams. Congratulations guys, that's no small accomplishment.

saying the Sox shouldn't go after Tex because they are all set at his position is bunk.

Lowell is getting old and missed significant time last year. Our 1st basemen can also play very good 3b, so why not go after a 1b and move the 1b to 3b, particularly when you need Tex in the batting order. Don't ignore the offensive side of the game when you say the red sox are set.

Oh great, Lil' Nicky Punto signed to be the Twins starting SS. :banghead:

Well, the Royals just threw away a comparable amount of money today on Kyle Farnworth to start the season as the setup guy before flaming out and either getting in a fight with {choose, does not have to be limited to 1: his catcher, lovable teammate, Jose Guillen, manager, fan, stadium vendor, pet, fire hydrant, other}, having his arm break down, or being demoted to mop-up duty after getting whiplash from giving up so many homers.

SI

Cole = thumbs up

The Twins paid Mike Lamb and Livan Hernandez a combined $8.5 million last year, with money still owned to Lamb before waiving both of them, so I'm kind of used to this by now. :(

Moore is thinking the Royals can compete next year in the weakened central so he's patching holes and overpaying to do it. Kansas City is set to open the newly renovated stadium next season and if they're even sniffing the playoffs, they're going to get some big numbers from a city starved for a mediocre team, much less a contender. Of course, the economy could be putting a damper on things.

I'm sure that every Royals fan will be taken to task for their team's horrible moves by teams spending twice and three times what they are but that's pretty much the reason this is happening. Personally, I'd rather have not spent on Jacobs or Farnsworth or Horacio Ramirez (tho I'm fairly ok with the Crisp deal) but contrary to the myth of the "replacement level player", you can't just get a player off the street and they will instantly perform at "replacement level". The Royals had quite a few spots where they had below replacment level guys last year and I think Moore is thinking that if he can just get those to ok level while adding some other talent, that gets the team quite a few more wins and even a possible contending spot in a weak division.

SI

The Royals spending $7M on Horacio Ramirez and Kyle Farnsworth, and that alone is proof that revenue sharing won't cure stupidity. I mean - seriously?

Apparently Manny is considering retiring if he doesn't get some good offers soon lol

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...0,548502.story

Phillies signed Ibanez, 3 years $30 million.

Manny, that whole retirement threat didn't work out for Daunte Culpepper, look where he is now. :)

Thank God, save us from ourselves.

I have been hearing he was the Angels backup plan if Teixeira wasn't signed. Just what we need, another popgun outfielder who will strain to reach 20 HRs.

When is someone--anyone--in the Angels front office going to carp to the fact that the one thing we lack, and have always lacked since Glaus was allowed to leave, is that super power bat, that 40 HR threat? That's the kind of bat that gives pitchers something to worry about.

We need the one swing threat. I am tired of getting down by a run or two and being concerned we couldn't come back.

Maybe in your park but in Citizen's Bank, those pop ups are HRs!

Is Citizen's Bank on the free agent market? Maybe we can bring it in for $40 M over 3 years! :)

Seriously, though, Ibanez is a very good OF and good signing for the Phils. I am very happy to see him in the NL, because he is an Angels killer. That said, we don't need more Torii Hunters, Garrett Anderson, Juan Riveras, Gary Matthews in our OF.

I am hoping for feast or famine Adam Dunn myself (after Teixeira, of course).

Ibanez is one that I wish the Royals would have retained a few years ago. He's a very consistant player (both offense and defense) and was always a great guy to have in the clubhouse. Fans loved him. Hopefully Philly won't eat him alive.

I wanted Ibanez for the Jays, but since they've changed from buyers to do nothingers... I guess I couldn't keep wanting that.