It was rhetorical more than a literal statement. What I meant more was regardless of whether she has a tail or not, OG poisoned someone.

To me it's like "hmmmm, we have a jaywalker that has a possiblilty of being a bank robber, and someone who I just saw mug somebody. Whoever should I go after first?"

Dola, by she above I mean DC.

Alright, I have a few more minutes since Ant is working late. I'm not sure if Anxiety and I saw the same person, or if we were in the same place... but we both smelled the same stench.

How comfortable do we feel about disclosing info on where we've gone?

Characters with long tails:
3 Bind Mice (Inken, Blinken and Nod)
Dragon

Characters with short tails:
Pigs: Super Sow, Wilbur, Piglet(s)
Wolves: Big Bad, Den Mother, Tracker, Hunter, Pup(s)


Unless my math is particularly bad we're overwhelmingly looking, assuming the mice are bad, which seems like a fair conjecture, at DC being bad if she has a tail.

Vote DodgerChick

I actually think oliegirl's actions are way more suspicious, although I see the points against DC; however, I just don't feel good about the DC pile-on:

Vote oliegirl

The natural assumption here is that the Bog of Eternal Stench is involved somehow or another. :)

Why are we assuming that the mice are bad?

I really think there is a far greater liklihood of a villager taking out another villager in this game than in most. And the definition of a villager is wacky anyway.

The introduction storyline pretty much leads you to think that the mice are good. They tried to rally the people together after the pig roast, but people just laughed at them...

Render pretty much tells you there that the mice are good. (also following along in the Shrek story line, the mice are also good there too)..

Unless someone shows me otherwise, i assume the Mice are a "good" character.

It's from this line in the rules:


I'm kind of ambivalent about that line myself but I see where people are coming from. The math still holds, though less convincingly, if the 3 blind mice are good/neutral.

I dislike bandwagons on one person, and we seem inclined to let oliegirl go for the time being, so I'm going to go on the other person who has a vote and,
VOTE ntndeacon

CR's reasoning for him seems as good as any.

I interpret that line completely reversely. See my above post.

*sigh* I won't be "dead" per se, but sucks that I won't be able to contribute to the discussions... all because of my tail... fuzzy, long, short, curly. Oh well... I guess I'll find out wht happens when I come back.

peace out

Well, not that my vote would do anything to save you , but I would think if facing the Bog, this is possibly the best time to possibly do some form of reveal for whomever you are trying to find for your team. There is always some possibility that one of the people voting for you actually is on your team and would move their vote, or perhaps if you truly are good, some other voters for you would rather take a chance on someone else.

The only downside i see is making it easier for someone who is looking for you to find you.. but like Render said, if you spend 1+ days in the bog its just as good as if you are dead when considering victory conditions.. this way at least you have a chance of being saved..

Unless of course you are evil and then not sure a reveal would help you alot :)

Plus several people have stated they have ways to rescue folks from the swamp, if you don't give someone a reason to use such an item, I find it likely that they won't.

Didn;pt the mice have their tails cut off?

Three blind mice. Three blind mice.
See how they run. See how they run.
They all ran after the farmer's wife
Who cut off their tails with a carving knife.
Did you ever see such a thing in your life
As three blind mice?


Seems to me she can;t be a mouse either,a nd that resudes the pool significantly.

Vote Dodgerchick

Yes. But I don't believe they did in the Shrek movies which seems to be their connection to this world, as I don't think of them as traditional fairy tale characters.

BTW, I think DC has hinted pretty strongly which role she has. It's one that I don't care about, which is why my vote stays on her, but is nominally a "villager".

Ahh, I completely missed it then, but I scanned her as one of my actions today and like Hoops isn't one of my two friends, so I am pretty indifferent to save her myself or encourage anyone else to.

Ok, I'm here and will hopefully be able to convince you that I'm good.

Someone on a previous page asked if I would encourage someone to save Telle. Here's my take on it...if Telle is a good guy, then I clearly don't want her ousted from the game, in any way. I'll feel horrible that I caused her to leave by throwing the potion...however, it's not like I KNOWINGLY poisoned her. If RendeR had told me what the potion was, even if he had said something as vague as "it's side effects are negative", then I would have never used it on someone unless I knew for a fact they were bad.

Should you save Telle? Well, if you have the power to save her then that decision is yours. If Telle turns out to be bad, you are all going to be saying "woo hoo Olie, you got a bad guy". If someone saves her and she turns out to be bad in the long run, that person will likely be lynched as a result of his/her actions.

So the decision isn't up to me. I made my choice...I don't know if I'll regret it yet, it depends on how this all pans out. Now it's someone else's decision to make...if the potion had given us more information this would be easy, but it didn't so it's not.

I still don't think your story stands up very well. Your initial comment was that you thought she might be the dragon (for some unknown reason that you never did explain despite multiple people asking), thus leading us to believe that you thought Telle was bad for this unknown reason and thus took a shot at killing her with this potion.

Now you don't have a feel one way or another if Telle was bad, didn't know the potion was harmful and if you did you never would have thrown it...

Can't really have it both ways here, you either thought Telle was the dragon for this unknown reason and knowingly tried to kill her, thus will look like a hero if/when she dies and ends up the dragon, or be someone alot of people want to vote out if she dies and ends up good. Now you are backtracking some on your statement and appear to be hedging your bets.. you didn't know it was a dangerous potion, you don't know if she is good or bad... etc..

My take on this is you didn't think the action all the way through, you had an idea the potion was harmful (or outright knew it was poison), took a shot at killing Telle for some unknown reason and came up with the dragon story without having your full story set.

A few things:

1). I've never seen Shrek, nor do I ever have any desire to at all. Yuk.

2). I'd classify three blind mice as a fairy tale on its own, without needing a connection through anything.

ATTENTION!!!

PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL CONTRARIAN ALERT!!!!!

I REPEAT!!!!!

PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL CONTRARIAN ALERT!!!!!





;)

I just realized that I guess we can rule out Schmidty being Shrek, or he would be typing in all capital Green letters and making me laugh hysterically by now :)

I really like that rationale olie, despite it being a bit of a cop-out.

Anxiety: 3 blind mice is a nursery rhyme not a fairy tale. That's why I've connected it to Shrek.

OK, time to put my vote in, despite not knowing exactly where wer are in vote count. If she has a tail, she is clearly not my ally (barring a really weird plot twist, I suppose). Oliegirl may in fact be my ally - attrition is starting to shrink the number of candidates for this I suppose. So I'm basically acting to save a person I might need later in the game.

VOTE DODGERCHICK

Dola - this logic is on top of the "characters with tails" and the likelihood of good/bad already demonstrated by others. It feels like we have a better shot here to get an adversary than with a blind draw.

Cat and the Fiddle
Blackbirds
whatever, they are all connected to the same thing. Call it a fairy tale, call it a nursery rhytme if you prefre,r but it semes like they are all menat to be part of teh porrage of thise storyline. I wouldnt call Prinsess Bride the same a hthe others, but ey, thats what we have. Consider eth words by oru manager:

"Basically any Fairy tale Character, cute cartoon or Fantasy character COULD be in this game."

SO anything goes. No need to conneth them ot anything else, they survive on their own.

blind. heh

I said I THOUGHT she might be the dragon. And I made it very clear from my first post after throwing the potion, that I didn't know what it would do. I didn't throw it in hopes that it was poison, I threw it in hopes that it would either be some sort of a truth potion and give us information about her role one way or the other, or that it would be some sort of conversion potion and if she was bad, turn her good.

One of the options I had with the potion was to take it myself, so why would I assume/think/hope the potion was bad based on that one fact??? If you had an unknown liquid that the GM had said you could drink yourself, would you think it was poison? I've never heard of a suicide in WW, so it never even crossed my mind.

Heh indeed. Nothing should be construed from that comment. I was not dropping any hints there. Nor, do I believe, have I given a suggestion about what my role is up to this point (for those who like to look for that kind of stuff).

Olie: I'm in a similar boat. I have something which I don't know jack about. I'm guessing it's good, but I have no clue. Quite frustrating really. But the thing is I'm not hurling this unknown magical item at someone else cause if it is bad, I ought not to inflict that on others.

Come on hops, I am absolutely rubbish at reading and dropping hints, and even I got the blind comment.

Olie, I agree with most of what you have said about potions since I had one and spent time pondering it. However, I did pay a decent amount of attention to the color of the potion when trying to construe what it might do. And "black" kind of screams bad things when looking through the lens of a fairy tale background.

Maybe it sounds like I'm saying this with the benefit of knowing what it does now ... fair enough. But I think if I was casting it at someone that I would be doing it with the idea of harming a bad guy, which it may still end up doing (TBD).

Did Telle do anything in particular to get your attention? Was there a post that caught your attention? A particular vibe? Just trying to figure out why you targeted that particular player ...

Which is why I replied to it - every once in awhile a word is just a word and not a hint. This is one of those times.


(best Nixon voice) I AM NOT A MOUSE!


I'm dying to give a hint here to my actual role, but the one I want to leave is a little too obvious. So I'll see if I can work one in tomorrow if I'm left alive and still not lined up with my ally.

Self Preservation vote to break the tie...

VOTE DODGERCHICK

Hindsight is 20/20, you are right. Yeah, it was black...which is why I only threw it at her and didn't give it to her and force her to drink it, which was an option - I asked RendeR specifically about that. I'm assuming at this point that her drinking it would immediately kill her instead of just ailing her.

It wasn't any one specific thing she said, more just the vagueness of her posts at a time when a number of people were openly giving information. Not necessarily revealing, but laying out what their victory conditions were and whatnot. I can't point to one post, all I can say is that in the scenario I had in my head, who was who and all that, she fit as the Dragon.

This is the point of a WW game where I become overly fixated with my hunch and everything that a person I am suspicious of posts just screams wolf to me, and then suddenly several people's posts that seem to inexplainably defend that person begin to draw lines together and by the end of day 2 I feel I know who all of the bad guys are...

Fast forward 3 days later and I find I've pushed for the elimination of various allies or innocent bystanders.

Alan, I agree that this vote has a lot of potential to be interesting. But unlike most games, it will take awhile to hunt down what the heck is going on with the vote movement.

I'm up for suggestions for how we can act on the results of this vote tomorrow if you have post-deadline thoughts on the matter.

I don't think there is anything much we can learn from the votes as the person is sent to the bog without any form of reveal. Like I said before that this is likely the best time for a reveal if the person is a good character in order to be saved, and am a bit troubled that two things happened:

1) a few votes savevd Oliegirl close to the lynch,
2) Oliegirl felt pretty confident in her safety that she didn't have a need for a reveal of any form.

I am more interested in seeing if there is another night kill or if the kill of Cronin and attack on Telle is the extent of today's activities of malice intent.

Yeah voting someone to the bog is of limited value at this point because we don't get their death.

That thought almost makes me regret my vote on DC as OG's willingness to go it alone seems more like a personal threat to my continued safety than DC potentially being a part of an opposing faction.

Key word there being almost. I like sending bad guys away :)

Well, I have some information on Telle. I'm quite certain she is not a wolf, if that helps anyone make their decision.

She is not the droid I'm looking for, but I have no reason to believe that she is furry. I followed her because I wanted to have more information to help us make a decision on her between now and noon tomorrow.

However, I had also followed Mr. W yesterday and learned nothing at all about him. Have other people used the "spy" option so far this game and gotten meaningful results? I'm trying, in light of learning something about Telle, to determine how concerned I should be to learn nothing about Mr. Wednesday on Day 1.

RendeR, what happens to DaddyTorgo at this point?

Well, it worked so well yesterday, so I'll try it again.. second verse.. same as the first

Vote oliegirl

hoops: I have considered the spy action but have not used it yet.

Nothing in particular. Should something happen to him?

Not sure if people will believe me, but I'm the one who killed DC :).

.

I don;t know

lol

Thanks for figuring out the whole "DC has a tail" mystery, BK.

I just felt we needed information about the close vote yesterday. I think we've got some good info now :).

Upon further review, I'm pretty confident that I can name Telle's role exactly. But I don't see any strategic advantage for me in doing so, unless it is to be underhanded and try to provide additional targets for the wolves. So I'll hold off on doing so, but will vouch for her as a non-wolf.

Just putting that out there in case someone who has an antidote feels like saving her.

Additional = more specific

Wow...didn't see that coming. Good call BK.

What do we think about formulating a plan for tomorrow? Actually having a strategy instead of just randomly going off on our own and attacking people? Yes..I know, the irony after my attack on Telle today, but I'm trying to figure out how to win the game, we need to work together rather than apart.

I followed Telle tonight, I didn't find out anything regarding her affiliations, except she is not a wolf. I saw her being attacked, but it looked as if she had fought off her attacker as I saw her holding some sort of sword and the wolf was on the ground..."flailing" was the word that was used. I also found a potion...it's pearlescent and kind of a greenish color.

yay good fairy tale people!

Well done, Barkeep!

Nice!!

Okay, I don't seem to be dead, so I must have been skipped with actions. Hopefully Render will come back and remedy this. Regardless, I can't put in new actions until I know what happened with my last ones. Fortunately, not working tomorrow night. So I will be able to come back and post before deadline. It will be tight, though. I will have maybe an hour to catch up, assess my actions and put in new ones.

Way to go, Barkeep, BTW.

This is inconsistent with the information that I learned when I followed her yesterday. Or, at least my interpretation of it. I'm hoping Telle can help us clear things up a little bit.

Okay, I got over my anger from last night.

That's twice you've screwed me cronin. First you take my recruit and now this ;) :p Just you wait... just you wait :)

So I killed DC in hopes of gaining some clarity about last night's close vote. What are the odds that people think olie is also a wolf? If so, I think it's clear that make Mr. W the last wolf, for placing a vote on a 3rd party later in the day after the relevant info was out there. If olie is clean I think we'd have to assume that there are wolves amongst olie's voters.

At this point my analysis sort of breaks down. I am not sure, frankly, if I want to kill all the wolves and settle for a minor victory when I have the chance at my normal victory.

Wow, nice one BK. Very clutch.

I'll echo the sentiments that there must be wolves in the line of olie voters.

Did everyone vote yesterday? We seemed short (but I haven't had time to go and look)

I don't know that I agree about the Mr.W part, simply because that seems too obvious to me..It is pretty clear that the following are true:

1) voting someone or not voting someone tells us nothing about the player
2) you can get a player back from the bog via various means
3) there might be "bad guys" with opposing victory conditions just like there are good guys with opposing victory conditions.

I think that a teammate of DC could easily have hid in the olie voters with the idea that if DC was voted off, no one would still know she was a wolf, and it wouldn't look bad for them just yet..

That said, I still am voting Oliegirl today, her story does not stand up at all to me and now you mean to tell me that she chose to first throw a potion at Telle, then afterwards when Telle is expected to die she chose to follow her to see what she was up to? That seem backwards to anyone else? If Telle is poisoned, why do you care what she is up to? She is going to die and you will find out her role soon enough right? I can understand why Hoops would follow her, he says he has a potion that may or may not save Telle, perhaps he was trying to see if Telle was worth saving (if his potion could even save her) by seeing if she was a teammate or not.. but Oliegirl's actions? They just scream off to me.

That and the discrepency between what Hoops saw and Telle saw, I still find Oliegirl lying or telling half truths here. She may be another wolf, she might be some other bad guy not allied with the wolves, I don't know.. but her action sequence is broken to me, and that is where my vote is staying.

I was attacked last night, by DaddyTorgo and saw quite clearly that he was a wolf. Although I'm not sure how since wasn't he locked away in the bog? I'm guessing one of his wolf buddies sprung him.

Also, I have been passed a potion by someone I feel some level of trust for. I used it and am now cured.

Wow, so people can get out of the bog without us knowing? Hrm.

Yeah and does kind of make Hoops's question about "What happened with DaddyTorgo" a little suspect.

Well, Hoopsguy is one of the ones I felt was protecting Olie yesterday before we found out what happened with DC today. But if DT is a wolf, I would -assume- he and DC were working together so that would mean to me that both Olie and Hoops likely wouldn't be a wolf... I still think Olie's story stinks, but you saw DT attack you.

Render, is DT votable today? Ie: is he out of the bog again and can be voted for? If so, I assume this means we are not notified when people are freed from the bog?

Telle, stupid question perhaps, but you weren't in the bog last night were you?

Nope, I was in the mines.

Telle, for clarification when you saw that DT was a wolf, do you mean Wolf in the traditional WW sense of being a bad guy, or actually quite literally is a wolf like DC was?

I went back assuming he actually is a wolf wolf with the assumption that all wolves know each other and are working together (which may not be the case here, but who knows)..

Final Night 1 vote Count:

Telle (1) - Chief Rum(73)
Alan T (1) - Passacaglia(118)
Hoopsguy (2) - Schmidty(132) St. Cronin(185)
Barkeep49 (1) - Anxiety(134)
St Cronin (3) - Thomkal(181) Oliegirl(191) Hoopsguy(196)
Chief Rum (3) - Telle(144) Jeheinz72(150) NtnDeacon(160)
Sebastian0622 (7) - Alan T(153) barkeep49(166) SnDvls(171) path12(135) Dodgerchick(151) Mr.Wednesday(187) PurdueBrad(188)


Final Vote Count, day 2

2 - ntndeaon - Chief Rum (228) Mr. Wednesday (411)
5 - Oliegirl - Alan T (309) Telle (320) path12 (394) Dodgerchick (399) Schmidty (405)
6 - Dodgerchick - ntndeacon (280) SnDvls (390) Jeheinz72 (391) Barkeep (404) Anxiety (417) Oliegirl (440)


The interesting thing is DC was the one that broke the tie between Chief Rum and Sebastian (Now DT) by voting for DT which started the inevitable run on him that got him lynched.

Only people of note from that list is Schmidty was the only olie voter that did not vote for Sebastian..and Chief Rum is the only other person who has not voted for either DC or DT (sebastian) between the two days.

Only other thing of note I saw was that DC had initially voted for Jeheinz72 before she moved it, and Jeheinz72 was also the one trying to protect Sebastian long enough for him to show up..

Not sure what I get out of all of that other than the uncertainty that the wolves actually know who each other are.

He was physically a wolf. I saw a furry tail and teeth.. and had a line stating "DT is a wolf."

And I don't think the votes mean all that much.. I'm guessing that since the wolves knew they could spring one of their own from the bog that they didn't worry about Sebastian/DT being lynched and may have even voted for him to gain trust.

Wow.. good job whoever did that!

I guess the evil mastermind's evil plot was to lay low and completely not vote yesterday at all! I guess that is why he is the evil mastermind and I am not! :)

All right -- which one of you bitches blew up the Enchanted Castle?

OK, part of the reason that I was "protecting" Oliegirl last night is that I thought she might be my ally. Her descriptions, and stated goals, lined up fairly well with what I expected the goals to be for my ally. So I didn't want her getting banished to the bog last night before I could check her out this morning.

Well, my results from this AM are in - wanted to know before we learned one way or the other on Telle (which it turns out we won't) - and Oliegirl is not my ally.

Alan, for what it is worth I agree with your questions about OG's motivation in throwing the potion at Telle, without being able to provide a good reason for selecting her. And I'm surprised at the discrepancies around Telle in terms of us both following her. Is it enough to put the vote there today? Probably not if we believe that DT is a wolf.

Telle, why do you think that DT would have put out the word "Save Telle" from the bog as a wolf? I had pretty much assumed that he was your ally - this seems very odd to me.

Also, I would appreciate it if my ally would seek me out if they are able to do so. Because I clearly suck at finding them. That is all, thanks.

AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO NTNDEACON!?!!? WTF

But seriously -- is everyone checking out the Enchanted Castle now, or what?

I have no idea why DT would have tried to get people to save me. Maybe to try and gain trust.

I haven't been there since Day 1. Seems like a lot's going on there today though!

I think revealing our locations is somewhat dangerous. People obviously know I was in the bog today but I am keeping ot myself whether I moved there today or yesterday. I want to keep my whereabout somewhat unknown in hopes it makes it harder to knock me off.

I was just trying to figure out RendeR's post. It sounds like we were all in the Enchanted Castle, doesn't it?

Well he said we all ran there. But we certainly don't have to stick around.

When something major happens I make it out that everyone congregates to see the big news, they then return to their chosen areas afterward. So for the few moments it took veryone to see Purduebrad's half melted bloody gurgling stinky mass....yeah, you were all together.

Got it. Well anyway, y'all figured out that I was in the Castle. Right around the time that cronin was offed, those of us in the Castle (me, PB, and ntn) were kinda stuck in there, unable to act or vote or anything until noon. But whoever killed PB made things weirder -- I was cured by Miracle Max, and ntn is I guess still stuck until noon.

OK, my list of non-allies is growing at a rapid rate. Clearly I'm not very close to winning this game.

Not allies - Chief Rum, Alan (based on him checking me out), Telle, SnDvls, Barkeep, and Oliegirl.

In addition to needing to find my ally, I have a couple of other conditions I need to meet to win. I'm basically at a point where I'm waiving the white flag on being the overall winning team. So, I guess from here on out I'm going to try and get wolves, as well as be willing to offer help to teams that feel like they are close to winning if I'm capable of doing so.

Telle, if you know that DT is a wolf then why aren't you voting for him at this point? Is there some other motivation that you have right now besides catching wolves?

I'm waiting to hear what he has to say about the events of the last couple of days, but your statements coupled with those by Oliegirl seem to have him pretty boxed in.