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Not only that, but the losing team also had a better rushing and passing average and they could only muster 10+ minutes for time of possession. Let me edit that. The winning team could only muster 10 minutes for time of possession. Very confusing. |
Now that we're at the mid-way point of the season, it might be time for a special mid-season award. We'll call it "Most Impressive Statistic" or "Things that Make you go Hmmm" or, for simplicity's sake, "Pick your favorite statistical oddity of the first half of the season."
The candidates: Chas Pitorak, QB, Houston Chas is a shining star on an average Houston team. So far this season, he's thrown for 1794 yards on 133-219 passing. Through eight games, he has 17 TDs and only 6 interceptions. The statistical oddity: his long pass of the season is 28 yards, but his long touchdown pass of the season...an astounding 111 yards! Sub-nominees to be mentioned in the same breath as Pitorak are his two receivers Earnest Allshouse and Gerald Ross. Allshouse is Pitorak's favorite target, catching 67 balls for 927 yards and 11 TDs. Ross has 37 catches for 541 yards and 4 TDs. Allshouse was on the receiving end of Pitorak's 28 yard pass, and Ross isn't far behind with a long of 25 yards. They've both had longer TD catches though--Allshouse took it to the house from 73 yards out, while Ross scored on a 64 yarder. They must have cut the guy who caught the 111 yard bomb. Brett Barbarito, P, Philadelphia Brett has one of the most dependable legs in the game. Unfortunately, Philadelphia has to call on Brett far too often. Through eight games, Brett has punted the ball 53 times for 2438 yards, an impressive average of 46 yards per kick. The problem here is that opposing teams have returned all 53 of his punts for a total of 1507 yards, making Brett's net punting average a measley 15.8 yards a punt. Filiberto Boll, RB, Chicago Filiberto is a work horse for Chicago. He's carried the ball 248 times at the midway point of the season. He's gained 821 yards. If you're doing the math at home (and you pretty much have to, because the game doesn't do it for you), that means he's averaging 31 carries a game and 3.3 yards a carry. Filiberto has found the end zone 7 times this season, the longest being a 9 yard run, which is strange because his longest run of the season is 6 yards. Andres Soboleski, K, Unemployed Feeling sorry after firing Andres, we'll nominate him for this award. He gets in here for only hitting 20 of 28 extra point attempts through eight games. No one is keeping their job making extra points at just better than a 2/3 clip (unless maybe you play for one of those Chesapeake teams). |
You can't be serious! No ypc stat for running backs? I really shouldn't be surprised by this stuff anymore.
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Oh man, this is more painful than laughable. And since you have the latest patches, I don't see the next patch doing wonders for a number of these horrid stats. I guess the PDS is way more important than having unimportant statistics and realism. |
Uh.....wow!
There is a stat in the game called LTD. This is supposed to stand for longest touchdown according to David. But check out this graphic and check out the sack yardage as well. Wow!  I didn't realize that you longest touchdown could be over 100 yards. This is quite amazing to see. |
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Week 9
Exciting times in week 9. We host the Milwaukee Warriors. Summary: Code:
00 00 We escape with a 21-20 win. The new kicker comes through hitting all three extra points to get the win. Can you imagine if Soboleski was still back there? In other news around the league, Chas Pitorak evidently threw a 135 yard touchdown pass this week. It's no 260+ yarder that Fouts threw up there, but impressive, nonetheless. Miami also held the ball for better than 59 minutes in their win against New York. |
Week 10
We take on Dallas, who is 5-4. Summary: Code:
00 00 Yep, Comet fans...that adds up to a 21-14 Dallas win. We lose our first game of the season. I'm thinking we should protest the game because it looks like we only played 15 minutes. |
Week 11
We need to get back on the winning track. What better way to do that than by playing Cleveland again. We ripped them a new one in Week 2, I think by the score of 52-3. This time we visit their house. The summary: Code:
00 00 We cruise to a 28-6 win. Better than 600 yards of offense, but the penalties take us down to only 545 "net" yards. At 10-1, we're back on the winning track and looking good with a 3 game lead in the division. |
Week 12
We play Tampa in Week 12. The summary: Code:
00 00 This was a struggle. We scored 10 points in what looked like the last five minutes of the game to escape with a 17-14 win. Absolutely HUGE win, when you consider we only had the ball for 22 seconds. And, we managed to get off 60 plays during that time. Pitorak update: Our man is on fire and his LTD is now 160 yards! Watch out Dan Fouts! Chas has got to watch out though, because Denver QB Arnzen is on his heels with a 150 yarder of his own. |
60 plays in 22 seconds. 15 minutes for a game. This thread is hilarious.
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I thought some of you might be interested to see this heartfelt message included in the game credits (which run every time you exit the game) (I have not edited the quote below):
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LOL....how in the BLANK did that happen. Does the game randomly customize minutes for each game. That is just crazy. At least you managed 291 yards of offense in under 4 minutes. Your team is simply amazing. |
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No one is going to touch Dan Fouts. You seem to forget that they calculate the distance it is thrown up in the air as well. That explains why you see these long LTDs. Fouts has a canon for an arm and throw a ball 150+ yards vertically. |
Oh, by the way, here is that thread that talks about the LTD stat. Apparently David doesn't believe it is a stat bug since he addressed it in a patch that has yet to be released. Huh?
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1203258 |
This just gets more atrocious by the minute.
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It's not "another". It's an known existing problem with the current public release.
How long has this, um, "game",.........no, I'll say "software", been out? I mean, isn't there some sort of legal action a purchasing customer could take? To me (and I do not own the game, but......), buying this piece of software in it's current state seems like buying a car and taking it home, only to find out that not only do none of the advertised options work, but they do things they aren't supposed to do. Like you hit the wiper switch and the headlights come on, or you turn on the radio and the windows go down. It is making for fun reading, though. |
Too much gold. Kudos to hi_fly_show for a strong first post.
I also don't know what to be more amazed at: the ever-emerging statistical oddities of Maximum Football or the knowledge that someone actually went to the trouble of making real-life rosters for the game. Somebody needs to get a life for Christmas. |
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Careful... |
not to side track the good discussion about aberrant stats and hot dog trucks and the like... but this nugget from the M-F boards seemed worth repeating here -- I think it cuts right to the heart of the matter. Uh, I think. I can't exactly understand it.
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Cheers! |
talk about a spore!
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BLANK!
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So, do we think this is from Daivd not being able to get the value of a new record for longest touchdown to replace the old one, so instead simply adds the distance of the new longest touchdown to the stat (which would be expected as simple bad programming that the game seems full), or is this just some random weird shit that has nothing to do with what goes on on the field (which now that I think about it isn't that far off of a possability with the bad programming that the game is full of). |
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Even funnier in that graphic is an Atlanta QB named Barkowski being sacked zero times with over 400 attempts. |
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It could very well be a case of adding the newest LTD to this category. But how in the BLANKING BLANK do you explain the sack totals. That one just boggles my mind. |
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Eric Hipple was a very, very, VERY, bad scrambler |
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I disagree. Hipple would have to be a pretty good scrambler to evade defenders while running an average of 75.38553195529 backwards each time he was sacked. Decision making while scrambling is nother matter though. I do find it very amusing that the yards lost on sacks is specific to .469787597656 given the games problems with rounding in calculating field position/first downs. |
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In the understandable scramble to get the box art just right, some things had to be put on the back burner. With builds being made multiple times a day, breaking first down markers, not recognizing an indoor stadium, and having a game which allows players to break all time records with every single game, it's really no wonder that the "little" things like stats would be completely screwed. What's funnier is that the barbie fans who bought the game are blissfully unaware of any problems, because after spending all that time making uniforms, no one gets around to playing a game. When they do, obvious and ridiculous problems surface to which David cheerfully acknowledges as though he knew all along. If it were a decent game these things would be forgivable, but at it's heart it's a terrible game. Sadly, most of Matrix's games are released in identical states with identical assinine problems which get fixed any time up to a year and a half after release. The difference though, is that some of their games are worth the hassle. It's a shame, the premise of a new FBPro was good, but an amateur with a Canadian log on his shoulder who tried to slip a CFL sim in disguise on the market was nowhere near up to task. What staggers me is that this man claims to be a professional software developer. Maybe he'll have better luck with Maximum Lacrosse. After all, what could possibly go wrong? |
This thread--this entire experience and everything that surrounds it--gets my Most Amazing Thread of All-Time Award.
I give it 261 points out of 100. |
Every time I check this thread there is something GOLDEN.
Fouts with a 261 LTD. LMAO!!!! |
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I like Fouts with 3200+ sack yards and 2900 yards passing. Also interceptions aren't included on the basic passing stats page, but longest pass and longest touchdown are. And with just a quick glance it seems fairly obvious that at least four of the eight stat columns (longest, LTD, sack, sack yardage) are messed up. That's some pretty impressive work. Basabe's stats are notable as well. He's averaging almost 30 yards per completion, and yet is losing almost 78 yards per sack. Amazing stuff in here. And the ultimate irony here is that this work comes from someone who denigrated spreadsheet games with the infamous "big deal, been there done that" remark. Was it certain that this stat page came from the end of a 16-game season? For all we know, could this be after 8 games or something like that? |
This is the most fantastic thread ever.
I laughed so hard I cried when I read the bit about touchdowns from the parking lot from hi_fly_show |
Is there any chance to relate sack yards and safeties? I imagine we should see some impressive numbers... Scores should look more like basketball games, even if considering the avg per sack it looks like the OLs can do their job in their midfield - maybe after those 25 min drive fatigue is a factor when you finally reach the red zone.
BTW, is there any chance to see punting avg? 'Cause I am so curious to see if playing in the dome makes any difference - You know, the roof shouldn't allow 200 yards punt as I can envision in an open stadium. |
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Okay, okay... so the sack yardage is a problem. But what he lacks in accuracy, he CLEARLY is making up in precision. Taking it out to 27 decimal places is unprecedented detail, for all you stat buffs out there. Never mind that the number itself is obviously meaningless... but it's SO PRECISE! Maximum Decimals! |
I almost want to buy this game just so I can take part in the mess.
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Almost.
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Let's see what Daivd makes of this:
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#5 is that those stats aren't sortable. The alphabetical order look is the only one you get. LLLLOOOOOVVVVVVVEEEEEEEE IT.
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He's gotta be running for the beer tent. So does this mean we can now officially label the MF fanboy uniform makers 'Debergs'? But of course I could just be screaming semantics with this. |
Here's Daivd's reply to the Spore article:
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Is reality starting to set in for him, or is this another Napoleonic type of quote about his programming prowess? |
I was wondering when the "I'm just a lone developer and you should just be happy you get to buy my game" schtick would come out.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure his meaning is "Look at the awesome game I coded in just 2.5 years when a major company can't put out a stupid easy game in over 350 man years, HA!" |
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ROFL!!!! LLLLLOOOOVVVEE IT! |
So I was sitting here in my office, getting some water, thinking "LLLLOOOOVVVEE IT" and that got me thinking...all that excitement he had about this game, and it was probably such a letdown for him. And that just made me sad. Like, really sad. All that enthusiasm just killed. It's like wasted energy, or something.
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I normally would agree totally with you, but I think his attitude doomed him with respect to this thread and the general attitude of this board towards the game. The crazy thing about all this is that had he not made that one revealing, arrogant remark about text-sims, had he been more accepting of his own game's shortfalls, and had he been more humble overall I think people here would have put in a ton of time to help him and almost everyone here would have been rooting for his success. Posters here are right in his market, and to publicly put down a game (heck, he put down the whole genre!) that many here feel a loyalty too was incredibly short-sighted, even if it did reflect his honest feelings. This game's history is due just as much to his people skills as it is due to the quality of the game. |
I think this is the most elaborate joke ever played on someone. This guy Daivd (Maybe a jilted former FOFC'er?) programs (on purpose) the worst game since E.T., Hires people to play it (other banned members?) and post what would seem to be the most left-field messages they can make up on his message board, then comes and advertises it to this board, knowing that in the end, he will have at least a starring role in the largest thread any board has ever seen, let alone this one.
In effect, he has completed the ultimate posters' dream, and become a legend the likes of which he may never have been as simply a board member here at FOFC. People he has never met will be talking about him for years, even if he dies tomorrow. |
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This is freaking awesome. Bravo. Bravo. |
I have no reipe about this game guys, seriously. No reipe at all.
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Bad news, Quik. Quote:
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It's the beginning of football season in the US, where demand, or at least curiosity, about football games is high, and he doesn't have the time to put out a demo. |
Wasn't Maxiumum Football released 5 months ago from today?
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I do not think that word means what you think it means. |
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Fixed. |
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Touche. |
Ok, let me rephrase that:
Didn't Maximum Football sell a $50 alpha stage game 5 months ago from today? |
Touche.
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Is touche similar to a rouge?
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Don't tell me this fucking thread is going to hit 5000 posts....
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Dola: In my efforts to curse this thread into finally dying, I crashed the server for 15 minutes.
As we say on the mean streets of Franklin, MA... Mah Bad, Dawg. |
I may be able to take the Comets into the play-offs tonight!
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Exactly. That shows how much faith he has in his product, that he won't let people do a "try before you buy", even though it has been almost half a year since it has been released. He has enough on his plate fixing the stuff that the small group of buyers has found, and I guess doesn't have the stomach to hear about the mountain of other things that an active install base of more than a few dozen would find. |
this is the ultimate thread that won't die
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Correction |
I saw that most of the recent posts over at the MF general boards seem to be about the old Electric Football game (the one that would vibrate the field to move the players around). I'm not surprised it was brought up over there since it's probably statistically more accurate than MF.
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Ouch. |
Bee wins.
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digamma, I recommend you check your M-F league... RomGrnt might be running one of your teams.
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No wonder those ineligible players keep ending up in games. |
Getting back to that demo, they are still coming out with excuses 5 months later. Here are the last two posts of a thread talking about demos again:
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I believe he has written that bolded part before the past two patch updates and yet that doesn't seem to be the case. Of course, he could very well mean that the current owners will be happy with the new update. I don't know what to believe anymore. He was the one who claimed shortly before release that the game wasn't going to have any serious issues. After release, he claimed that he was surprised by the issues that somehow slipped by him and his staff. After the first two patches, the game had supposedly improved dramatically, but yet they can't release a demo because they really want to work on this major update that is still fixing a lot of major issues. Issues that people claimed never existed in the first place. |
If you are looking for internal consistency in the statements coming from Winterland, I think you will never escape your confusion.
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Antmeister: i'm curious - you've put an awful lot of effort in this thread/topic (emphasis on awful), just wondering what you're looking to get out of it? is the reason for your interest you've displayed in this thread because you want to believe in the game, see its potential, but David keeps failing you, or do you think perhaps this is something everyone loves to bash on and you just want to lead the charge? i'm just not sure what your preferred outcome would be in all this - i would think after 96 pages of flogging this game it would have become apparent this thing is good for the garbage, yet here you are, still copying and pasting quotes from the MF forum and your "get a load of this, guys" demeanor. at first i thought you were semi-interested in the game and were hoping against hope that David would get things right. now i think you're interested in trying to keep this thread alive so that we can have fun at someone else's expense regarding a product that has no reason attracting this much attention. i just think it's funny that you of all people, someone who enjoys creating songs (and now videos), are so keen to poo poo on a fellow creator.
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Sorry HA, but calling Daivd a creator is like calling me a chick magnet. That shit just ain't true no matter how you cut the deck. |
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Well that's an interesting questiion. The very reason why I was interested was at one point, long before this thread was created, I had a strong interest in Maximum Football. Of course, we all know this fell well short of expectation and normally that would be it. However, I never seen someone who had been less than honest throughout the whole process and felt that he probably would have "cashed it in" if he would have sold a substantial number of copies. In other words, I am in the belief that he would have no longer supported the game if he sold a lot of copies of that game on first release and that didn't settle well. It may not have been the case, he may have just crumbled under the pressure of trying to support the thing and decided to quit, but you don't do that if you are passionate about something. The reason why I had believed that is when I kept hearing complaints about what happened with CFL 99, which is another game he created. He created that game, barely supported it and then stopped cold turkey. He then stopped selling copies of the game and left a lot of people pissed off who wanted to support him. That's not right. So basically, I actually want to see how far he takes this game. He knows damn well this game wasn't ready and I have a hard time believing Matrix didn't know as well. But I am really interested to see if he gets it to the state as advertised and I actually believe that the private beta team is taking it in that direction slowly. I don't want to see him quit. If you have the passion, you keep going and don't make excuses to why can't do a number of things. And yes, I would buy the game if he got it to that point. I don't quite get the statement about what I would get out of it. I just share my opinion/information on something just like anyone else does. I don't get anything out of making songs/videos because I like to do that stuff. I don't really care what one's opinion is on it since I was blasted for my earlier songs, but kept making because they were fun for me. I have freeware/shareware threads for lot of games because that is what I am passionate about. I don't get anything out of either one. But that was a fair question. |
cool, i can buy that logic and i see where you're coming from.
hey, i'm the first guy to crack a joke if something is funny, but there is a side of me that feels bad for the guy. i'm of the belief that he actually thought he could make this a full time job like Solecismic, but his inexperience and other factors just won't make that possible. my wife and i always wish we could start a small little company together so i guess i see a little bit of me in the Winters' situation. i felt bad for his wife (who brought things upon herself obviously), cuz my wife would have done the same thing - she's a very "stand by your man" kinda gal. i probably stated a couple times in this thread i would love to have created a game even 75% of what MF is, for me that'd be a mammoth accomplishment. David's only fault is charging as much as he did. should have sold the game for at least $20, and all along humbly said it was a work in progress but every game he sold would allow him to further develop the game. i don't think people mind being paid beta testers as long as you let them know ahead of time. he never should have marketed the game as the second coming of FPS. there's noone to blame in this MF mess other than David, which is shame cuz a different tact would have went a long way. i certainly wouldn't want 96 pages of bashing my game if i created something, that would demotivate me to the point where i'd probably stop putting time/effort into games altogether. it's a shame, really. nevertheless it seems you are being sincere. |
L.A. Comet football time!
L.A. Comet football time! L.A. Comet football time! L.A. Comet football with a baseball bat! Week 13 We play Philadelphia, who is struggling this season. The summary: Code:
00 00 They manage to hold the ball for 57 minutes, but it's just not enough, as our high powered, efficient offense is able to put up 17 points. The defense is stout, holding Philly to 3 and we cruise to 12-1 with a 17-3 win. |
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This guy continously fed everybody garbage about how the game was "almost ready" for several years, then released a buggy piece of crap "game" that was unplayable and not even close to being in the same universe - let along ballpark - that he had made it out to be. These factors and many more make it impossible to not enjoy taking a dig at him. Usually I would not derive much enjoyment for making fun of a guy's labour of love, but the way this guy carries himself, well... he deserves it. |
Week 14
We travel to Chicago. Chicago is battling Cleveland for their division lead. We handed Cleveland two losses earlier in the season, and now it's Chicago's turn to play us twice in the last three games. The summary: Code:
00 00 This is becoming a shampoo commercial. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Insert same old statistical jokes. Mention we won. Repeat. We cruise to a 31-7 win. |
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Some of us LOOOOVE the statistical jokes. |
Week 15
At 13-1, we feel pretty good about things heading into our game with Milwaukee. The summary: Code:
00 00 This was actually a tad bit exciting to watch on the old simulation scoreboard. Back and forth the whole way, until we scored our fourth touchdown late in the fourth quarter to escape with the 28-24 win. 14-1! |
Week 16
The final week of the regular season. Woo hoo! Like I mentioned earlier, we play Chicago for the second time in three weeks. They were able to win last week to wrap up the North Division (we'll see if that is good enough to get them into the play-offs), so it looks like we decide to throw the rule book out the window and play a 15 minute game. Code:
00 00 It looks like another 28-24 win, and we finish the regular season 15-1. Kudos to Zittel and Sandine in this one who put up some John Jefferson/Ahmad Rashad circa 1982 GEFL receiving numbers in this one. Too bad no one else got to catch a pass. |
The standings...
So, to let you see the standings, it looks like I have two options. Take four separate screen shots. Upload them to a web page and post them here. Or copy them down quickly. Strangely, the latter seems like less work. East New York 13-3 Boston 7-9 Philadelphia 4-12 Washington 3-13 North Chicago 11-5 Cleveland 10-6 Milwaukee 8-8 Pittsburgh 3-13 South Miami 11-5 Dallas 11-5 Houston 7-9 Tampa 4-12 West Los Angeles 15-1 Denver 10-6 San Francisco 9-7 Oakland 2-14 And, so we're all on the same page with regard to the play-offs, I offer this straight from the game manual. Quote:
Honestly, I have no idea what that means. It looks like we can just keep playing play-off rounds until our hearts are content, with division winners always having the option to play again (best two out of three? lose two in a row...best three out of five? lose...best four out of seven....). In the game, there is a "new round" button. So, we have the standings. My question to you...who should make the play-offs? Why? Granted you have no information, other than a few scores from early in the season, scores versus the L.A. Comets and the final standings. But, that really shouldn't matter...should it? |
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And...you're in luck. I figured out how to export the league statistics into an excel file. |
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Ok, so basically Philly held the ball for 57 minutes with just 8 first downs and a 1.9 rushing average. Nice! |
Individual Statistics
(category by category...and yes, this is the whole of them) We'll start on the defensive side of the ball (I'm going in the order they exported onto the excel sheet.
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The kickers (note the success of my man Shogren after dropping that bum Soboleski)...
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The kick returners (though, these are actually punt return statistics) get their day in the sun...
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The Quarterbacks (I have no idea what the extra column is on the right--it's not labeled in the excel file--luckily it's all zeros)...
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You'll note above, that Arnzen passed Pitorak for the longest touchdown pass of the season.
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The receivers (yes, everyone in the league who has caught a pass this season)...
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Rushing (I guess we're a pass happy league)...
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Tackles (this is the longest one--sorry)...
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And last, but not least...the punters...
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Some records were just made to be broken. |
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As far as his wife, I never made any ill advised comments about her because I do understand that she is supporting him. Even though she made some crazy comments to potential comments prior to the release, I figured it may have been because she saw how it affected him in their private life. Quote:
Yeah and that's the other thing. Before Matrix took over, he stated that the game would sell aroudn $30, but somehow it went up to $50. Yet if we were to compare that to Puresim, they were able stay around the same price. I don't know what happened there. And I agree with your comments above that she should have sold it for a lot less as a beta game. He could have went the Puresim route easily. Quote:
Yep, no one to blame but himself. And that is why this thread is so long. Not for the fact that everyone wants to elbow and drop kick a developer. It is because there are so many mistakes being made. Mistakes are/were being made in publishing, development, public relations, marketing, pricing, beta testing and adverstising. And all of it surrounds this game. I haven't seen this with any other game ever. But why would you be afraid to start your own business based off this? If it is something that you wanted to do and you are passionate about it, would you really give up on the effort. Now I would understand if you have to stop a business because it is not financially viable, but you wouldn't stop creating altogether, would you? |
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That's pretty sad when you have more sack yards (6461.3822) than passing yards (3967). I feel sorry for Byron from Cleveland. I guess its all worth it since he was still able to manage 23 touchdowns. |
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Eh, wasn't it 6 sacks for 461.3822 yards? |
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Argh! You're right. On my screen it looks like one complete number. But when I quoted it, I can see now that it is a different cell. So instead of 0 sacks for 6461.3822 yards. It should read 6 sacks for 461.3822 yards. That sounds much better. :D |
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