I hovered over the link just to be sure.

Had to click just to make sure it was the Onion because really I just can't tell anymore.

Edit: Beaten to the punch by Logan.

Anyway, here is the damning quite by Comey about Sessions:

MSNBC reporting White House sources says Trump "may not have known" the US has troops based in Qatar.

— Simon Marks (@SimonMarksFSN) June 8, 2017

So it turns out that maybe being "really, really smart" isn't a good substitute for intelligence briefings.

Apparently he was up past his bedtime watching baseball.

Interesting hearing. Comes down to whether you believe a guy under oath or a pathological liar.

It's not lying. He's just a non-PC, shoot from the cuff, regular ole red-blooded 'Murican male. :rolleyes:

Just in case anyone else, like me, thought this was a joke...

STATEMENT BY SENATOR JOHN McCAIN ON SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE HEARING QUESTIONS - Press Releases - United States Senator John McCain

Awesome callback.

I suppose at least it's better than claiming he ate a big bowl of chili before the hearing.

One of my friends has started calling this debacle The Trump Presi-dumb-cy.. I can understand why. :/

I caught Limbaugh spinning this argument today...and all I could think was that he's arguing that this guy is incapable of rising to the level of professional communication expected in his job and as part of his professional duties.

In my line of work, we call that incompetence.

Limbaugh's best defense was attempting to turn incompetence into a virtue. It would have sounded more convincing if he'd done it in a Jimmy Stewart drawl.

(I get what he's trying to do. It's another attempt to get people to accept the billionaire as just another regular joe just like "us". All those politicians and lawyers with their high-falutin' words and insider lingo are part of the problem. They're the folks rigging the system against us normal folk, and he's going to bust up that system. I get it. I can't believe that so many people would fall for the dumbass idea that a Manhattan socialite billionaire is just one of "us" instead of one of "them", but that does appear to be the current state of America. Snake oil futures are going through the roof.)

Just another regular Joe with a Manhattan penthouse and furniture made of gold.

I'll give them credit for turning an East Coast limousine liberal into the hero of the rural working man. They found some good marks.

Now, don't mistake this as an angle. It's not. I'm genuinely unsure.
Does the POTUS have the constitutional legal authority to direct the FBI director to end an investigation, and if so , would failing to do so amount to insubordination.

The more I read on this I'm coming down on the side of Trump is a sleeve ball, unethical tactician, but completely legally in bounds.

Certainly firing the FBI director isn't criminal in and of itself, and obstruction is a high bar. I'm willing to accept that there isn't a criminal case regarding Comey.

But, it isn't right and the rule of law can't survive if we don't enforce some norms on the President. I don't expect the GOP to impeach yet, but they damn well could at least muster some outrage so as to let Trump know that there are some limits on his authority. As long as they keep defending him, he'll continue to be an habitual line stepper.

Considering when Nixon tried to end an investigation by having the person fired, he resigned two weeks later.

Saturday Night Massacre - Wikipedia

I've seen different viewpoints from different lawyers. It seems like a gray area. Trump has the power to dictate what the FBI does and doesn't investigate. But if it gets into covering up a crime he would be doing something illegal. So I guess the question would be whether his conversations with Comey was to better utilize the FBI resources or if it was to cover up a crime.

The issue Nixon ran into was he instructed people to lie which was obstruction of justice.

Regardless of any of this, Trump can just pardon Flynn and only Congress has the power to enforce any laws on the President.

One thing I'm wondering is if the Flynn stuff had not come out, would the sanctions on Russia be removed by now? All the investigation stuff aside, it seems that the biggest thing to come out of this is it making it tough politically to remove those sanctions.

Also this was an interesting note that was overlooked. Why are so many people meeting with Russia and lying about it?

Comey told senators about possible third Sessions-Russia meeting: report | TheHill

Lawful acts can still bring obstruction of justice charges if the motive is corrupt.

Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication...and WOW, Comey is a leaker!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 9, 2017

Read this thread from David Simon, creator of FOFC ATF The Wire. It's fascinating

David Simon Thread on the Comey/Trump thing

Here's the thing, and it's mentioned in one of the responses:

"David is saying the fact that Trump showed ZERO curiosity in the investigation into Russia reveals that Trump knows exactly what happened."

For a normal person with some level of intellectual curiosity, I'd agree with him, but we're talking about Donald Trump. I think it's fully possible is that all he cares about is that "I won. LOOK AT THE MAP." I have a hard time imagining that he cares about Russian interference into our elections. It's fully possible that he didn't ask not because he knows, but simply because he doesn't give a damn.

Trump still hasn't figured out that "liar" and "leaker" are contradicting accusations.

It isn't that he hasn't figured it out. It's that he does not care. And he knows that his base does not either. Just keep saying bad things about your opponents louder than they say bad things about you.

It's worked well for him so far.

Trump claims he's 100% willing to testify under oath.

Which is pointless. In his head, making a statement IS telling the truth regardless of what is said in a statement.

Under oath = demanding a truthful statement does not mean anything in his mind.

They arent mutually exclusive thoughts.
Even if (probably should read Even though?) Trump lied, if Comey intentionally leaked info to a 3rd party to get it out it is still a leak.

2 wrongs dont make a right and such?

But who am I kidding...burn him at the stake. Rip his fawking head off.

Yeah you didn't get what I was saying at all. I wasn't talking about Trump himself lying. Trump is calling Comey both a liar and a leaker. If he's lying about something, then it's not a leak. If he's guilty of leaking, then it's not a lie.

Ummmm...your argument assumes that Trump's statements need to have logical consistency. In TrumpWorld, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the only truthful thing Comey said is that he's a leaker, and everything else he said was a lie.

Are we implementing handwavium here to dismiss the possibility that Trump was calling him a liar on some subjects and a leaker on others?

I trust Comey about 8 bajillion times more than Trump, who I wouldn't believe if he told me the sun is warm. But I also take a dim view of the leak and think it really undermines his credibility. And while I'm on the subject, Rubio was an absolute joke as well, even beyond McCain IMO. Nothing wrong with the president asking the FBI Director for loyalty? GTFO.

I agree there's a world where you could present a nuanced argument that Comey lied about some things but was a truthful leaker about others. I don't think our Predisent is all that into nuance.

Rubio went from Little Marco to, Here, Marco, here boy, good boy!

I must need to catch up...what was the actual leak again? Comey relaying a conversation he had with the president, after he was already fired? Are all conversations with a president considered privileged information?

I don't dismiss the possibility, but I don't give him that much credit since this isn't the first time he's used this contradicting argument and I think it's more likely he's just throwing multiple things at the wall that don't fit together. From an optics standpoint, the "liar" attacks are a much better way to go than the "leaker" attacks.

It's not about whether it's priviledged(at least, not to me). Comey had every right to release the information, but when you're a deposed FBI Director(who is before Congress testifying about all this precisely because of that role) you either put the information out directly or you keep your mouth shut. You don't put it out through a third party to manipulate things, which is his own justification for it.

If you tell someone about a conversation you yourself had, that's not a leak, that's just talking.

Ok. If I call it a cowardly, underhanded, and manipulative release, is that better than calling it a leak? I agree it's not the right word to use, but I think my point stands.

I don't get the impression that he merely told someone about a conversation he had. I'd have to re-watch the testimony to be certain, but my recollection is that he gave the information to his friend specifically for him to leak it. And to be clear, as long as it's legal (and I'll hazard a guess that Comey knew he was on solid legal ground there,) I have *no* problem with someone putting out information through a third party to manipulate things. That's just politics. Once Comey was fired, he was no longer bound to be a-political.

You do whatever you want. He's a private citizen who was being trashed by people. He has every right to tell who he wants what he wants.

I guess it's the connotation of "leak."

"Comey Investigation: He Had Friend Leak Memos to Media | Time.com"

They were his memos. Where else would people think they were coming from? I mean, how is that all that different from having a press secretary, PR firm, or lawyer release a statement?

Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold | US news | The Guardian


What a little snowflake.

If only it was that easy to get him to resign :)

Maybe he'll just go to Saudi Arabia over and over where protesting is illegal.

Then again:

Donald Trump: 'No change' to UK state visit plans, says No 10 - BBC News

Trump's approval rating is less than 40%. Maybe he'll stay away from America until Americans support him.

Yeah, protesters can be beheaded and literally crucified. Sounds like a great country to have on the UN Human Rights Council!

Trump today:


By next week 70% of conservatives will say this is true.

Has there been anything that passed both houses and got signed by Trump yet?

They renamed a post office in Tennessee.

Given some of the crap I've seen, they may be onto something here frankly.

And authorized the US to participate in the World's Fair!

The injunction against Trump's travel ban was upheld, the 9th circuit cited Trump's tweets calling it a ban and Spicer's comment that his tweets are official statements.

Yes, they've technically passed more legislation than at any other time up to this point in the beginning of a new administration. The thing is, almost all of them have been roll backs of things that Obama passed that they had to roll back within 6 months or miss their chance.

So they're basically this guy? "Progess? Hell no--ROLLBACK!"

Source: NY Times, link here.

That's some sweet Trump Don-Un stuff you guys have going on down there.

Kim Jong-Un is probably looking at that first cabinet meeting and is disapointed with his underlings.

I do love that Mattis chose to praise the troops rather than grovel at Trump's feet. He's one of the few days of light in this administration

Trump now apparently looking at firing Muller.

I'm sure he has good reasons. I mean, besides the obvious obstruction of justice reasons.

Well, it's distracting from the AHCA, so whether he intends to or not, it's smart to float firing Mueller at this point.

And the Trump administration continues to pretend it didn't happen.

Russian Cyber Hacks on U.S. Electoral System Far Wider Than Previously Known - Bloomberg

I want Trump to meet alone with Mueller, tell him his job is safe, and request Mueller's loyalty so much I can taste it.

From a USA Today investogation:


I'm sure this is all above board.

I thought Trump didn't like the AHCA now. It's "too mean".

He just wants a win. Doesn't care *what* the bill is. Not like he's read one.

Or paid one.

And here in Virginia, the pre-election polls in the gubernatorial election seem to have been off by quite a bit, even if they correctly predicted the outcomes. Instead of Establishment Ed Gillespie cruising past Minnesota-born neo-Confederate Corey Stewart, Stewart lost to Gillespie by only one percentage point. Meanwhile, the democratic primary was not as close as expected, with Ralph Northam beating his slightly more left-wing opponent handily by about 11 percent.

It is worth nothing that the slightly more left-wing opponent (well on some issues), Tom Perriello, was endorsed by Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren as an anti-Dem establishment candidate, showing that in some cases being more left-wing populist isn't something that resonates with votes.

Meanwhile, 70% of federal political appointments remain without even a nominee.

Special counsel Robert Mueller is investigating Donald Trump for possible obstruction of justice, officials say - The Washington Post

"Trump had received private assurances from former FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing."

I guess that makes it harder for Trump to fire Mueller, but, I kind of want to see the reaction if he does anyway.

I think we've gotten to the point where people aren't even going to tell Trump "No, that's a horrible idea" when he comes up with one of his brilliant ideas, because they know he won't listen to them, they instead leak it to the press, and he gets the idea from the press saying "How could he even think about doing that, here's why it's (Pick one or more: Wrong/Stupid/Illegal/Prone to Backfiring)".

It may be the only way to "manage" Trump, but it's not really a functional branch of government where you have to leak things daily to convince your boss that his latest brainstorm is a non-starter. What happens when he gets tired of even that method? (probably what happened with Comey)

Meanwhile...at the White House:

when you've done way worse stuff but they end up getting you on obstruction of justice pic.twitter.com/GUZu45dtt3

— Mike Tunison (@xmasape) June 14, 2017

Trump apparently thinks America still cares about Hillary.
.
.
.
.
.
NOPE!

Neither I nor the democratic party can forget about Hillary fast enough.

She definitely blew it, but, blowing things is par for the course with the Clintons.

No, that's getting blown.

Semantics! ;)

It's not just Trump. It's the entire administration's attempts to discredit Mueller and the investigation.

A source sent me RNC/Trump talking points for Repubs seeking to discredit tonight’s WaPo scoop on Mueller investigating Trump obstruction —> pic.twitter.com/ctwy2si9A7

— Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) June 15, 2017

How many of those points did Trump hit on in his twitter rant today?

Man, they sure are spending a lot of time deflecting. I mean, if they have nothing to fear or hide, they should be tweeting that they look forward to any hearings or investigations and will cooperate fully.

Strange that they're deflecting rther than denying.

If you were wrongfully accused of murder, you wouldn't respond with "you chatterbox" (credit Rhys James)

"The real story is the witness to the murder that wasn't even supposed to be there."

That's the talking point behind the gradual erosion of our civil liberties, isn't it?

If you have nothing to hide, what's the problem?

Maybe i am missing sth. specifically american about the debate (as opposed to the version i am familiar with in Europe), but isn't that apples and oranges ?

One is being investigated and relevant information being accessed as part of this investigation, another is being surveilled without or at least on shaky grounds.

This morning Trump is going after the Deputy AG.

Is there anyone Trump hasn't gone after at some point? Ivanka maybe?

To be honest I expected a lot more of this kind of staffing. For the little staffing he's done, Trump has generally picked pretty traditional nominees.

I still don't get why the GOP leaders don't think that Pence would be better for them.

Robert Mueller is superb choice to be special counsel. His reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity. Media should now calm down

— Newt Gingrich (@newtgingrich) May 18, 2017

Muelleris now clearly the ti[p of the deep state spear aimed at destroying or at a minimum undermining and crippling the Trump presidency.

— Newt Gingrich (@newtgingrich) June 15, 2017

If it weren't so serious ...

Impeaching your own party's President condemns them to lose at least the next mid-term election and Presidential election, if not more.

Nixon resigned in 1974. This happened 10 years later:



The GOP does not need to think long-term here. Just thinking medium-term is enough. An impeachment/resignation does not destroy the party for a generation.

Dont let The Donald see that. He will claim that map as his own

What worse for the Republican party, 1 more year of Trump or 3 more years of Trump + Trump as the 2020 nominee (with a primary challenge from The Rock and I don't even think I'm joking about that)?

The party could really move forward on its own terms by kicking him to the curb.

The problem is it's the short term that scares them more because they're thinking about their own jobs, not the presidency in 2020.

The GOP got trounced in the 1974 midterms, which left them with only 38 Senators and 144 Representatives. Now they were able to take back the Senate in 1980, but even after that 1984 election, they weren't even back at their pre-1974 number of House seats.

Gingrich is also upset about Mueller's investigation extending beyond possible collusion with Russia, which is understandable since we all remember how outraged he was at Ken Star's investigation extending being White Water.

The GOP is going to reluctantly stick with Trump. The investigation is going to be a massive distraction to him and unless there is really a smoking gun, Trump is going to be with us at least for the next 3 years.

Trump has shown he will lie, deflect, and distract. The ultimate deflection and distraction is going to be some conflict (likely with our favorite crazy kid in NK) and he knows the US will rally behind him.

Yes, you are correct that it is one of the talking points of eroding civil liberties, especially when it comes to things like the patriot act. However, in this instance, it's not civil liberties that are in question.

agreed

I wonder if that kid coming home from N.Korea in a coma with what it looks like permanent brain damage will be the final thing that sparks a war.