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Edward64 02-25-2022 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3361279)
I have no links and am not really interested in looking for them - how likely prognosticators think it is that we would defend Taiwan militarily is not particularly interesting to me, and such writings tend to bogged down in irrelevancies.


The links are important because it shows third party analysis, theoretically more knowledgeable than you and me, that answers your original discussion topic below. I assume that has been asked and answered.
Quote:

Why would (not defending) Taiwan lead to a greater loss of US credibility than Ukraine?
We are now, per your paragraph below, pivoting to how would we defend Taiwan and can we sustain the initial patriotic spike. On how the US will defend, I've read numerous articles but suffice to say there are plans. Weaponry & air/sea vs boots on the ground.

Quote:

The only way we could even arguably do that is if we are willing to commit everything we have in our military to doing it. Right now as a complete abstraction the US public is split fairly evenly on the issue. If China seriously invaded, and we seriously tried to stop them, casualties would be extreme. To my mind it's simply highly self-evident that it would take less than two weeks of the resulting dead bodies piling up for the country to demand we pull out. I think as soon as it became clear to whoever was President at the time that China wasn't bluffing, we'd be gone.

Regarding body count, we're now in the realm of my opinion, so take it for what its worth ...

Whether or not the US public will support the continue defense with the likely US casualties depends on how it started/who was the aggressor, if US/Taiwan is winning the war, are allies helping, and of course, the body count. Using an admittedly extreme example, if the US has lost 20 planes and China has lost 200 planes and/or if US has lost 5 ships and China has lost 50 ships ... fair chance US public morale will still be good.

But yes, no doubt if the US has a high body count and seemingly losing the war, we'll limp home with tail between our legs ... ceding APAC to China for the next 40-50 years.

Quote:

Where Ukraine is relevant is the commitment that we and Europe have. What we're wiling to do about it. If we won't even commit our air force to help Ukraine, why would anyone think we're willing to put everything including boots on the ground in whatever numbers are required to help Taiwan? How do you sell that to the average American, when you know that a nuclear attack is just Xi waking up on the wrong side of the bed/getting the wrong advice from his advisors away?

I don't think I've read an article that says US will put boots on the ground in Taiwan. Other than some advisors, trainers and like, the US will support by providing a ton of weaponry (anti-aircraft, anti-ship), using carrier groups/submarines to own the air and sea.

But the gist of your statement is why would the US help defend Taiwan when it's not willing to do same for Ukraine? I think this has been asked and answered. Taiwan is much more strategic to US than Ukraine is. And in a way, Ukraine is more of a Western Europe problem. I am sure Western Europe will feel the same that a Taiwan conflict is more of a US problem.

Quote:

Taiwan is quite a bit more important, but also orders of magnitude more dangerous. Far more dangerous than it is more important, in other words. And the world has consistently shown, whether it's North Korea, whether it's Iran, that we don't have teeth when it comes to facing down nuclear powers. They get what they want almost every time. Positive signs today that we may be moving somewhat in the right direction here, but I'll believe that we've got the required backbone when I see it.

I agree that Taiwan/China is much more dangerous to the US. As far as "facing down" nuclear powers, sure we've had failures but lets not paint it as total failures. We faced down USSR in Cuba pretty well. We faced down USSR for the 30 years or so on the Cold War. We stalemated on NK. I can concede we've lost/stalemated on Ukraine. Unsure about Iran, don't think they are a nuclear power yet but even if they were, I'll call that a stalemate.



The bottom line to me in our back and forth is

(1) Should the US defend Taiwan if China attacks militarily. Yes (but the more likely scenario is China will do non-military things to eventually own Taiwan).
(2) Can the US sustain a conventional war effort supporting Taiwan vs China. This is TBD. There is a point where the US will cut our losses. But I can also see where China, if punch in it's nose enough times, will cut their losses too.

Edward64 02-25-2022 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3361286)
The more I think about it, the more I think China does not want to act right now. I could be wrong. Xi certainly wants things like a less stable dollar. But he may be very much against war, and his interests would be better served if everyone kept pretending Taiwan was part of China.


Right now Xi must know they are trending up quicker than the US. Why rock the boat unless Taiwan decides to declare independence. Everything I've read says China plays the long game and, given time, there are other ways to "take over" Taiwan than just militarily.

Flasch186 02-26-2022 04:59 AM

Indeed

The new normal is not like the old tactics

Slower, from the inside out, and like a parasite eventually the host dies and that is how they get it

Putin just got impatient with will be the potential miscalculation

If Putin gets the whole then like Crimea a lesson will be taught to him and the world that the parasite can be a launching pad eventually for an impatient military take over but either way… eventually, the parasite wins in this scenario we’ve watched play it the last ten years (crimea).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edward64 02-26-2022 08:20 AM

I haven't watched the State of the Union live in quite some time (way too much clapping after every other second or third sentence. But may have to watch on Tue.

Hope he shares additional stuff we'll do to help out.

Quote:

On Tuesday, Biden is expected to use this unique opportunity to elaborate on the U.S. response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the most severe blow to the security of Europe and the NATO alliance in the 77 years since World War II.

While Americans are struggling with a two-year-old pandemic and economic stresses of their own, the return of war in Europe adds a dire portent to the proceedings not seen in many years.

Brian Swartz 02-26-2022 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64
We are now, per your paragraph below, pivoting to how would we defend Taiwan and can we sustain the initial patriotic spike.


I don't think I'm the one who pivoted. I think that happened in your post referencing the Diplomat article.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64
the gist of your statement is why would the US help defend Taiwan when it's not willing to do same for Ukraine?


No it isn't. I think we're at a point of just not understanding what's actually being written at this stage.

Edward64 02-26-2022 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3361333)
I don't think I'm the one who pivoted. I think that happened in your post referencing the Diplomat article.

No it isn't. I think we're at a point of just not understanding what's actually being written at this stage.


That's fine. We'll agree to disagree on who pivoted when and different interpretations on what the Diplomat article says.

sterlingice 03-01-2022 08:09 PM

It's so weird - it's like the first time in like 10 years that the SotU doesn't feel so frigid.

SI

Edward64 03-01-2022 08:14 PM

Biden is off to a good start.

Edward64 03-01-2022 08:23 PM

Lots of bipartisanship clapping as Ukraine was first up on the agenda.

Now back to the normal Dem clapping and GOP staying quiet.

Lathum 03-01-2022 09:38 PM

How much more of Boeberts shit is McCarthy gonna put up with?

RainMaker 03-01-2022 09:44 PM

Speech seemed fine. Did laugh at the oligarch part because he will never do that.

sterlingice 03-01-2022 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3361825)
How much more of Boeberts shit is McCarthy gonna put up with?


That's a feature not a bug. She can say stuff that speaks to the substantial crazy wing of the base and he and his ilk can pretend to be more like "standard" and "reasonable" politicians, even when they operate like anything but.

SI

RainMaker 03-02-2022 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3361825)
How much more of Boeberts shit is McCarthy gonna put up with?


I still think it's weird she is married to a convicted child sex offender and it doesn't get brought up much.

flere-imsaho 03-02-2022 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3361825)
How much more of Boeberts shit is McCarthy gonna put up with?


I feel Biden missed an opportunity there to call out McCarthy to control his caucus.

albionmoonlight 03-02-2022 04:08 PM

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I think the WH is playing Manchin right. Whatever you think of his politics, the guy is as addicted to attention as a 12-year-old girl on TikTok. So just let him “win.” Stop trying to get his vote. And then he stops being the center of attention. And, lo and behold, he comes back to the table and back into the spotlight.

Solecismic 03-02-2022 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3361935)
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I think the WH is playing Manchin right. Whatever you think of his politics, the guy is as addicted to attention as a 12-year-old girl on TikTok. So just let him “win.” Stop trying to get his vote. And then he stops being the center of attention. And, lo and behold, he comes back to the table and back into the spotlight.


West Virginia Presidential Election Voting History - 270toWin

He's in a unique situation. He thinks of himself as a Democrat because he grew up as solidly Democrat as they come. But West Virginia's interests have shifted in a way no other state has shifted because of the coal industry.

So he can't get himself to switch parties because it's in his DNA and there's plenty he doesn't share with the Republicans (hence, his voting record). On the other hand, the state has shifted and that's placed his own politics more on the Republican side.

He also comes from a time when the Senate was supposed be the place where compromises were ironed out and everything moved slowly. He doesn't think of himself as Democrats probably do today, but invariably, he gets into the spotlight because of the math. So did Susan Collins not that long ago. There are probably 10-12 senators who could conceivably wind up in these positions based on ideology, but I think Manchin's case is the most unusual. Sinema could presumably play a similar role, but I don't think she has the voting base to maintain it for more than a term.

Edward64 03-05-2022 06:17 AM

Biden has gotten a little bump. From recent low of 40.4 on Feb 27 to now 42.6 on Mar 4.

How Popular Is Joe Biden? | FiveThirtyEight

Edward64 03-05-2022 09:35 AM

Good for you Pence.

Pence: There's no room in GOP for "apologists for Putin"
Quote:

“There is no room in this party for apologists" for Russian President Vladimir Putin former Vice President Mike Pence plans to tell top Republican donors during a speech in New Orleans on Friday.

Why it matters: The excerpted remarks appear to be the most forceful separation yet between the former vice president and his ex-boss, Donald Trump.

He does not mention Trump by name in the portions of the speech shared in advance.

albionmoonlight 03-05-2022 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3362217)
Biden has gotten a little bump. From recent low of 40.4 on Feb 27 to now 42.6 on Mar 4.

How Popular Is Joe Biden? | FiveThirtyEight


I'm rooting for the Dems in 2022, but this feels like SOTU + Rally Around the Flag bump that will be gone by the mid-terms.

Still, I guess better than a negative bump from a shitty speech and a shitty response to Russia.

albionmoonlight 03-05-2022 10:15 AM

dola: In this polarized environment, it feels like the only type of politician that could ever consistently break that ~45% ceiling on approval would be a moderate Republican. But I don't see a moderate Republican making it through the GOP primary process anytime soon. So we seem stuck with Biden/Trump approval levels for a while.

Lathum 03-05-2022 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3362230)


He doesn't get on ounce of credit from me.

Perhaps had he mentioned Trump by name hi would get a smidge, but he is still too much a coward to do it.

Edward64 03-05-2022 12:20 PM

Drove to Home Depot and noticed unleaded at $4.10, up from $3.20'ish. A significant increase from a couple weeks ago.

Not sure how much of that is the war vs inflation.

Lathum 03-05-2022 12:30 PM

I noticed it went from 3.99 to 4.19 overnight here, also on the way to Home Depot.

I don't think it is the war or inflation. I think it is opportunistic oil companies making a huge profit.

bronconick 03-05-2022 12:56 PM

It's also time for the annual bullshit around spring where they switch refineries to the "summer blend" which leads to a hike.

stevew 03-05-2022 01:03 PM

Diesel up about $1 this week. Went from 4.49 to 4.95 overnight at this one station. Not sure what the top is here, but it could be $3 more before this is over.

Edward64 03-05-2022 01:19 PM

I guess that's why Biden is reluctant to stop buying Russian oil.

We need to find alternate sources or increase supply.

Edward64 03-05-2022 01:31 PM

Check Zillow every other week or so. No surprise that house value has increased but a surprisingly big jump from past couple of weeks.

Lathum 03-05-2022 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3362252)
I guess that's why Biden is reluctant to stop buying Russian oil.

We need to find alternate sources or increase supply.


We have over 9K permits not being used by oil companies. They ability is there, they would rather make huge profits than increase capacity.

PilotMan 03-05-2022 01:47 PM

Capitalism baby!

sterlingice 03-05-2022 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3362256)
Capitalism baby!


But the big oil men promised Biden they wouldn't raise rates to take advantage of the situation. Are you saying they lied? /s

SI

albionmoonlight 03-05-2022 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 3362258)
But the big oil men promised Biden they wouldn't raise rates to take advantage of the situation. Are you saying they lied? /s

SI


They are not raising rates. They are choosing to restrict supply to keep prices high. Which is smart business.

If the Dems can't/won't get the truth out there, then why should the oil companies care?

Solecismic 03-05-2022 02:21 PM

I know that's been quoted a lot this week, but what's the reality? There's a massive Gulf of Mexico lease sale that was canceled by Biden, reinstated by the court, took place, and is now being challenged again.

So if all these leases are available, why is that an issue at all? Why is anyone buying or trying to buy those Gulf leases.

It's just a question. But it seems the issue is a lot more complex than just there are leases available, so the oil companies are just evil.

What I do know is that it takes about a decade for a lease to result in a working well. Reasons for a particular lease not being worked could be expense (an oil company must pay for it while exploring it), the determination that it's unlikely to produce oil, any number of things. A lot of leases were canceled when Biden took office. Why? What stage were they in?

When we're importing a net 4 million barrels of crude oil a day and Russia is exporting a net 5 million barrels a day (and that gets shipped between countries, so those aren't direct sales - most of Russia's shipments go to the EU), I think it's a serious issue.

sterlingice 03-05-2022 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3362261)
When we're importing a net 4 million barrels of crude oil a day and Russia is exporting a net 5 million barrels a day (and that gets shipped between countries, so those aren't direct sales - most of Russia's shipments go to the EU), I think it's a serious issue.


Two weeks ago, it was good business. Two weeks and a new war later, it's bad foreign policy. Just like how in the last month there were debates in this very thread about how renewables are too expensive and unreliable and market forces should help dictate where we go. Right until we are reminded that a bunch of our oil comes from Russia and the Middle East. Never mind that in one case, we're talking about the whole of US production and on the other, we're talking about individual companies.

Just going to add this to the thread so we can point to it sometime in the next decade: Getting practically all of our semiconductors from Taiwan is also almost certainly going to be a very serious issue soon. (But god forbid we have to pay more for iPhones or keep them longer than 2 years or put wifi in everything from our fridges to microwaves for some stupid reason or way too many electronic controls in cars)

SI

Solecismic 03-05-2022 02:52 PM

No, it wasn't good business two weeks ago. Last summer, I kept reading that canceling new leases and canceling Keystone XL made Russia a lot more powerful for this exact reason. Germany closing down its nuclear reactors, EU countries shutting down natural gas production. All these decisions made Putin more powerful. Unfortunately, no one knew what he had planned (other than those who read his rambling histories of tsar-era Russia). That's the new part of this, but it has nothing to do with oil companies.

Sure, semiconductor reliance on Taiwan isn't great, either. And those factories are expensive and can't be built in two weeks and the raw materials needed for those chips come from places we'd rather not mention. We've had a chip shortage for a year now. And while we're at it, we can talk about rare earth metals. Trade is essential, but if you're mostly importing and doing far less exporting, you're not doing it right.

RainMaker 03-06-2022 12:18 AM

Much of that potential oil people are citing wouldn't stay here. It would be exported, if they actually drill for it. And that's a big if because part of the strategy is to sit on the land so others can't drill (and thus decreasing supply).

The dirty little secret is our oil refineries are outdated and can only handle heavy crude. So much of what we gained from the shale revolution can't even be used here. And much of the oil we drill for here can't even be used here.

If the issue is about oil independence (it's not), then the push would be to build new refineries that can handle the oil we actually have. But that's an expensive investment and at this time, it's cheaper to export it all and import the heavy stuff. Shareholders aren't looking 5 years down the line, they need that next quarter to be up, and building new refineries isn't in the cards.

RainMaker 03-06-2022 12:27 AM

Also worth mentioning that a few years ago the Saudis got into a fight with Russia and cranked up their oil production. It led to that weird time where oil futures went negative. The United States asked the Saudis to cut back on oil. A move that greatly benefited Russia.

Just remember that the people who are screaming about high prices were the one's who's actions led to them.

Solecismic 03-06-2022 05:00 AM

The US can certainly send it to Europe. Also, we can reduce the red tape related to building a new refinery - the reason we don't have new ones (I think the first new refinery in more than 40 years went online a couple of years ago, targeted at the light oil) is the regulation and the constant lawsuits. We'd have Keystone XL by now without all that as well, which would greatly increase refining efficiency.

I think at this point we need to increase production as quickly as possible and get development and investment costs lower. It's not corporate greed, it's bureaucracy and legal fights driving costs up that's given Russia the ability to do this. We just can't expect the Middle East to bail us out. Or go to Venezuela and expect Maduro to suddenly become our best friend. We are importing about five million barrels a day and that must change.

Edward64 03-06-2022 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3362307)
I think at this point we need to increase production as quickly as possible and get development and investment costs lower. It's not corporate greed, it's bureaucracy and legal fights driving costs up that's given Russia the ability to do this. We just can't expect the Middle East to bail us out. Or go to Venezuela and expect Maduro to suddenly become our best friend. We are importing about five million barrels a day and that must change.


In the short term < 2 years, apply pressure on frenemies to increase oil production for the heavy crude. In the long term, help grow the alternative energy (subsidize electric vehicles, build those charging stations etc.).

In any case, oil prices are going to go up in the short term.

Solecismic 03-06-2022 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3362311)
In the short term < 2 years, apply pressure on frenemies to increase oil production for the heavy crude. In the long term, help grow the alternative energy (subsidize electric vehicles, build those charging stations etc.).

In any case, oil prices are going to go up in the short term.


They will.

However, EV's make up about 3% of what's on the road and 4-5% of new car sales. A disproportionate percentage of that on the West Coast (where there already are more charging stations). And for many people, EVs don't meet their daily needs. For many more, they don't live in homes that could even support a charging station.

Given the chip shortage and the increase in the price of new cars, change isn't a realistic goal. Plus any switch to renewable is a bet on long-term benefits. It takes an awful lot of energy to make batteries and everything else that goes into a new car. And, while it's of long-term benefit to the equation, EVs do require electricity, which then adds to the need to generate electricity.

Even the long-term plans are suspect. In the UK, which is further down this road and far fewer people need a longer-running car, plans will require EV connections that discharge into the grid during peak demand because of the above problem. That, in term, would reduce the life of the battery by a large percentage, likely making the entire EV investment a large negative one when it comes to energy versus oil-powered.

I would love for the world to move past digging up dead life and burning it as a source of energy. But we are dependent on a stable electric grid and battery technology isn't even close to what we need to make this transition.

Russia realized this, has so far avoided even making vague commitments to a standard we can't possibly entertain as realistic (net zero), and found wealth and power in doubling down in its role as providing oil so that people in the EU and the US could feel better about not burning it themselves. But when you outsource this kind of thing, you're outsourcing power and strength. So here we are.

Solecismic 03-06-2022 02:44 PM

As for pressuring the unfriendly countries of Iran and Venezuela... why give even more power to countries that will absolutely choose China and Russia over us in any conflict? And with Iran run by a theocracy that is determined to eliminate Israel and control its region, removing sanctions is reckless. Iran right now... not even frenemy. Dangerous and not much question how they feel about the US.

Edward64 03-06-2022 07:36 PM

I'm a glass half full guy (especially when drinking some whiskey on a Sun night). But I sure as heck hope this comes true.

That 40 mile (?) convoy is stuck. Ukraine had a good day shooting down Russian air assets yesterday. 16K foreign fighters inbound (suspect this is overstated), seemingly news everyday about NATO member donating weapons, and the big news about Biden greenlighting Poland to give their Migs to Ukraine.

Russian forces are 'decimated' says top UK general | Daily Mail Online
Quote:

Vladimir Putin's 'decimated' forces could lose the war in Ukraine, the UK's top military commander has suggested.

Admiral Sir Tony Radakin said Russia's troops were 'in a mess' and the invasion was 'not going well'.

His comments yesterday represent the most optimistic assessment yet of how the conflict may end – but came on another bleak day, with Russian forces firing on families as they fled the fighting.

Edward64 03-06-2022 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3362354)
As for pressuring the unfriendly countries of Iran and Venezuela... why give even more power to countries that will absolutely choose China and Russia over us in any conflict? And with Iran run by a theocracy that is determined to eliminate Israel and control its region, removing sanctions is reckless. Iran right now... not even frenemy. Dangerous and not much question how they feel about the US.


Definitely wasn't talking about China or Iran. Thinking more about SA and rest of the gulf states as frenemies.

Specifically for Venezuela, any power will be a shorter term. It will fill their pockets with $ and will buy them some goodwill from US and western Europe, but that's about it for "power".

Why not, the critical stage for Maduro has come and passed. Arguably one can say that increase oil sales will help Maduro but that is moot. We had a chance to really support the other guy but bailed on him (for whatever frakkin reason) and Maduro look like he'll be hanging around for a while.

RainMaker 03-06-2022 09:01 PM

For those concerned about energy prices, why not pass a bill that would accelerate alternative energy sources and provide a gas tax holiday? You can use the foreign currency reserves of Russia's that are currently being frozen to pay for it.

Atocep 03-07-2022 12:34 PM

The keystone pipeline has to be right up there with CRT as the most misunderstood issues the right wing is crying about.

Lathum 03-07-2022 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3362423)
The keystone pipeline has to be right up there with CRT as the most misunderstood issues the right wing is crying about.


It is the perfect example of how the right wing media uses faux outrage to keep the uneducated in check. The thing is these people don't even want to be educated because they need something to be angry about.

GrantDawg 03-07-2022 01:57 PM

I was just saying to my wife this morning that I really don't know a group now that is not in constant outrage.

Solecismic 03-07-2022 02:04 PM

It seems to make people feel better to call "right wing" anything their preferred media is against. Pipelines are important because they distribute crude (in this case the heavier varieties) quickly and efficiently. Keystone wouldn't lower prices tomorrow or even a year from now (it would take a year or so to finish, unless newer construction regulations hold it up further). But it is an important part of the overall energy independence picture.

There's no quick way to get there. Unfortunately, for those who think wind and solar are the only way to get there, the technologies to make that even possible have yet to be invented. That's why Germany is in a lot worse shape than we are.

Surely by now people are beginning to understand that if we don't do this, all we're doing is sending out the laundry and having Russia and China burn the fuels for us. Which is why we can't save Ukraine. We can only hope stories of the Russian army's incompetence and obsolescence are true and that they won't just become more and more brutal in this invasion to compensate.

Lathum 03-07-2022 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3362433)
It seems to make people feel better to call "right wing" anything their preferred media is against.


Do you not consider Fox News, OAN, Newsmax, patriot radio, infowars, Briebart, and the various personalities associated with those programs right wing?

I put patriot radio on today to get some other perspective and the host was screaming abut how the radical democrats only goal is to control the fuel and they don't care if you run out.

We heard about caravans of immigrants overrunning the border, rapists, drug dealers, human traffickers, etc...Your kids will learn about anal sex in school, they will be taught to feel bad about themselves for being white, they will make you take the covid shot and use it to control you, your freedoms are being stolen by minorities and illegals, your jobs, you schools, etc...cities overrun with crime like we live in some dystopian society, it goes on and on. All of it from right wing media, so yes, they traffic in fear to keep their audience in check. Their audience is in constant state of fear and anger, and it is a powerful and addictive drug. I lived with my in laws for over a year while we were buying our house and Fox News was ALWAYS on, I heard it every day.

RainMaker 03-07-2022 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3362433)
But it is an important part of the overall energy independence picture.


The oil comes from another country. It is also oil we are currently getting delivered anyways. No increase in supply at all in this deal.

Also, the expansion is primarily from tar sands. A type we don't refine much of and would simply export to other countries.

Adding this kind of oil does nothing to help us unless there are some new refineries built. And those are incredibly expensive and companies have been reluctant to invest in it.

Solecismic 03-07-2022 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3362437)
Do you not consider Fox News, OAN, Newsmax, patriot radio, infowars, Briebart, and the various personalities associated with those programs right wing?


Various degrees, but yes. Just as I consider The NYT, WaPo, CNN, PBS and the broadcast networks and their various personalities left wing, by various degrees.

I try to read a variety of sources, but I do not claim to have all the answers. Sometimes, even Brietbart is probably right, though you have to wade through a lot of bs if you go there. Sometimes, even CNN is right, though all they run in the evenings seems extreme.

I'm just a person. I don't want to align myself with a brand or a news channel or a web site. The world seems more complex than that.

In this case, trying to read as much as I can, I think we've gotten ourselves into this for three reasons. One, because people seem to think it's OK to let countries in Asia (and for this purpose I'll include the majority of Russia's territory, which is in Asia) burn our fossil fuels for us. You don't have to be an expert on Hegel's philosophies to understand that transfers a lot of political power.

Two, because we insist on looking at the world through a US lens. That worked for a long time, because we pretty much saved the world 75 years ago. And awful foreign policy decisions, particularly since the Cold War ended (but Vietnam would count) has squandered that. Putin gave us some insight into his lens last year and it's a scary look - not one that we can ignore today. He simply doesn't care about the Ukrainian people, or, really, his own people.

And three, because we are so divided as a people right now. We let our media and our politicians divide us over issues that really shouldn't be that bad. If we are concerned about increasing crime, then one side calls us names and the other side uses the crime to accuse the other side of wanting to destroy society. The result being we can't talk about crime at all. If we're afraid to talk about anything except in these extremes, our lenses are quite astigmatic. As is Putin's, but in a different way.

TL:DR - I think we're fucked.

Atocep 03-07-2022 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3362433)
It seems to make people feel better to call "right wing" anything their preferred media is against. Pipelines are important because they distribute crude (in this case the heavier varieties) quickly and efficiently. Keystone wouldn't lower prices tomorrow or even a year from now (it would take a year or so to finish, unless newer construction regulations hold it up further). But it is an important part of the overall energy independence picture.

There's no quick way to get there. Unfortunately, for those who think wind and solar are the only way to get there, the technologies to make that even possible have yet to be invented. That's why Germany is in a lot worse shape than we are.

Surely by now people are beginning to understand that if we don't do this, all we're doing is sending out the laundry and having Russia and China burn the fuels for us. Which is why we can't save Ukraine. We can only hope stories of the Russian army's incompetence and obsolescence are true and that they won't just become more and more brutal in this invasion to compensate.



In this case I'm against inaccuracies and there's a reason study after study shows that people that only use right wing sources are the most uninformed or ill-informed people.

The Supreme Court is what killed off the Keystone pipeline extension, not Biden, which right wing media likes to claim. Biden put the final nail in it by not renewing the permit, but it was effectively dead before Biden was elected. The environmental hurdles that needed to be cleared for it to happen weren't realistic and Shell, Exxon, ect saw the writing on the wall while Trump was in office and started selling off the land that they had intended to use.

We weren't energy independent under Trump, which is something else I've seen people on the right claim recently. There's a sizeable portion on the right that also believe the Keystone pipeline was shut down, it wasn't. It still pumps as much oil now as it when it was built 10 years ago.

miked 03-07-2022 03:47 PM

My in-laws watched our son for the weekend while we were at a travel meet. We came back and he told us that Joe Biden is raising gas prices and we are importing 90% of our oil/gas from Russia.

The other issue with Keystone is that the people creating it and running it do not give two shits about what other damage occurs while pumping, and there seems to be news of pipe spills and leakage in to water sources and the environment every few months. Why not let them build it, but put $10 billion in a reserve account and every time they fuck shit up (which is quite often), "we the people" actually get something to help offset it.

Solecismic 03-07-2022 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3362447)
In this case I'm against inaccuracies and there's a reason study after study shows that people that only use right wing sources are the most uninformed or ill-informed people.


Looking for that evidence, I haven't been convinced. The survey I read in full made its conclusions based on eight questions, which were specific enough that they seemed like they'd be more influenced by the outlets' coverage decisions than anything else.

Plus, if you're aware that the universities conducting these studies tend to run left-wing, you might, if you're more informed but don't lean to the left, be more likely to avoid participating in a poll conducted by telephone.

Bottom line being, these studies may make the left wing feel good about themselves (even though they seem to show that a large majority of those who agree to participate in these quizzes are not well-informed, period), I don't see it as conclusive.

But it does seem to increase the hate out there, which is why it's so hyped.

Lathum 03-07-2022 04:02 PM

The personification of well educated and informed...


BYU 14 03-07-2022 04:21 PM

Jesus Christ, so the vaccine will turn us all into sex dolls now, and I thought I had been making gains in my bench press, turns out I am just growing robot boobs.

NobodyHere 03-07-2022 04:26 PM

Where can I get one these "full man-made working female robots"?

BYU 14 03-07-2022 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3362484)
Where can I get one these "full man-made working female robots"?


just get the vaccine and become one :)

RainMaker 03-07-2022 04:40 PM

If you're bored, look through the "urine therapy" groups on Facebook.

HomerSimpson98 03-07-2022 04:54 PM

lol those Fightin' Farmers - the pride of Lewisville, Texas for sure.

GrantDawg 03-07-2022 07:46 PM

Btw, it is not the Keystone pipeline. It is the Keystone XL pipeline. The Keystone pipeline is still pumping like always.

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Edward64 03-07-2022 09:50 PM

Have you guys noticed beef prices going down? Specifically Ribeye?

A month ago, Ribeyes were going for like $14-$15/lb. Wife just bought some from Walmart for $12/lb.

Just seem weird that it went lower in these times of inflation (and war uncertainty).

Lathum 03-07-2022 10:04 PM

Trying really hard and failing right now at not judging you for buying red meat at Walmart.

GrantDawg 03-08-2022 05:53 AM

Walmart meat is actually good quality.

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Flasch186 03-08-2022 05:59 AM

Agreed


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Lathum 03-08-2022 06:10 AM

Maybe in the south...

sterlingice 03-08-2022 07:22 AM

I've noticed pork prices have been down the last few weeks here in Texas (more in the $3-5/lb range for lean boneless chops of various shapes). Also, shrimp ($6-7/lb) for good shrimp.

That said, I don't tend to just go into the store and say I need X this week - I don't want to be paying $12/lb for meat. I check what's on sale and buy one or a couple - maybe use one this week and the others go in the freezer. We make a weekly "menu" a couple of days before grocery day - looking at what we have in the house that should be used up and maybe filling in the last day or two when the ad comes out so we snag what's on sale. I use the "run-and-shoot" of grocery shopping - see what the defense is giving me and do the best with what's there. For instance, Kroger will have ribeyes on sale for $7-8/lb once every 6 weeks or so. Even less for T-Bones/Porterhouse (sometimes as low at $5/lb). Same with HEB. That's when I buy a couple and stock up.

SI

larrymcg421 03-08-2022 07:40 AM

"I don't like Trump or the right wing, but here's 10,000 defenses of Trump and the right wing."

GrantDawg 03-08-2022 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3362525)
Maybe in the south...

That is completely possible. It could be a difference in suppliers, or it might be that more people buy groceries at Walmart here so the turnover is better and the meat stays fresher. Walmart used to have the best meat at a lower price. Now it is usually within a few pennies of everyone else. Like Edward was talking about Walmart had $12 a pound ribeyes this weekend, but so did my local Kroger and Publix. If I am going to choose between the three, it would be Publix (which is where I ended getting my ribeyes mostly because they where the only ones that had also had a brisket point which I was looking for). But quality wise I would put Kroger-Walmart-Ingles on the same level around here.

JPhillips 03-08-2022 08:00 AM

I'm to the point where I rarely buy any meat that isn't expiring and on a steep discount. I've never had a problem and I end up with more cuts/variety than I would otherwise.

GrantDawg 03-08-2022 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 3362531)
I've noticed pork prices have been down the last few weeks here in Texas (more in the $3-5/lb range for lean boneless chops of various shapes). Also, shrimp ($6-7/lb) for good shrimp.

That said, I don't tend to just go into the store and say I need X this week - I don't want to be paying $12/lb for meat. I check what's on sale and buy one or a couple - maybe use one this week and the others go in the freezer. We make a weekly "menu" a couple of days before grocery day - looking at what we have in the house that should be used up and maybe filling in the last day or two when the ad comes out so we snag what's on sale. I use the "run-and-shoot" of grocery shopping - see what the defense is giving me and do the best with what's there. For instance, Kroger will have ribeyes on sale for $7-8/lb once every 6 weeks or so. Even less for T-Bones/Porterhouse (sometimes as low at $5/lb). Same with HEB. That's when I buy a couple and stock up.

SI

Pork has definitely come back down. I'm back to getting pork shoulders at .99-1.19 a pound.

Edward64 03-08-2022 09:09 AM

Looks like the US will stop importing oil from Russia.

Markets were in the black this morning but has gone into the red -.5 to -1%. Will probably get worse. Ultimately the right call.

It'll hurt a lot for some folks. Minimal damage to our family so we don't have to drive too much. Sucks but worth it if it helps fend off Russia. Nothing compared to what the Ukrainians (and regular Russians) are/will going through.

stevew 03-08-2022 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3362534)
"I don't like Trump or the right wing, but here's 10,000 defenses of Trump and the right wing."


The B-side to that is "I'm a libertarian"

JPhillips 03-08-2022 02:17 PM

5% of the ballots cast in the TX primary in Harris County were rejected absentee ballots. Not 5% of absentee balots, 5% of total ballots.

GOP getting just what they wanted.

Solecismic 03-08-2022 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew (Post 3362548)
The B-side to that is "I'm a libertarian"


I guess it's easier to discuss issues when you choose laundry and don't bother with nuance. That's the Twitter Way.

Sometimes, though, issues aren't A, B or C or even D. They're quite complex and "agreeing" or "disagreeing" with some talking head or some politician isn't all that useful.

At some point, everything became "you're either for me or against me" - and Trump was really good at that himself. If you see the world as that simple, there isn't much you can add to a discussion.

RainMaker 03-08-2022 07:54 PM

What a fall for this country. Spent decades washing their balls, selling them weapons so they can commit genocide, ignoring human rights abuses. They won't even take your call.


Solecismic 03-08-2022 08:35 PM

I was wondering. That event almost 21 years ago. Where did the perpetrators come from? I can't quite remember which country pretty much sponsored that attack.

Not a fall. An awakening. We have many friends in this world. Hopefully we won't forget where, because we're going to need them.

Spoiler Alert: Iran is not one of them.

sterlingice 03-08-2022 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3362632)
I was wondering. That event almost 21 years ago. Where did the perpetrators come from? I can't quite remember which country pretty much sponsored that attack.


Was it Afghani-- Ira-- Ira-- (yay, I can even reuse that one) Syri-- darn, man, I just can't remember. But I think we love them for their oil and they love us for our dollars.

SI

RainMaker 03-08-2022 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3362632)
I was wondering. That event almost 21 years ago. Where did the perpetrators come from? I can't quite remember which country pretty much sponsored that attack.

Not a fall. An awakening. We have many friends in this world. Hopefully we won't forget where, because we're going to need them.

Spoiler Alert: Iran is not one of them.


Completely agree, but we will be shipping them more weapons and planes the minute they ask.

RainMaker 03-08-2022 10:25 PM

Another country who wouldn't pick up the phone. Running errands for them 2 weeks ago. Time to stop being their bitch.


flere-imsaho 03-09-2022 12:05 AM

Crows come home to roost, etc....

Edward64 03-09-2022 05:58 AM

Weird if Putin is in power and Biden not in 2.5 years. Odds are against it but still significant enough to be ironic.

Edward64 03-09-2022 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 3362633)
Was it Afghani-- Ira-- Ira-- (yay, I can even reuse that one) Syri-- darn, man, I just can't remember. But I think we love them for their oil and they love us for our dollars.

SI


I'm all in on the building of charging stations on the interstate. Also all in giving car manufacturers and buyers financial incentive to move to EVs.

Elon and like, we need a longer range EV that is in the $25K range. Ideally not from China and dependency not jump from Middle East to Russia.

Analysis: Ukraine invasion sets back Musk's dream for cheaper EVs, for now | Reuters
Quote:

The conflict in Ukraine has only raised the stakes, pushing nickel and aluminium prices to record highs on Monday on growing fears exports from leading producer Russia could be disrupted. Lithium prices also have increased, more than doubling since year end, as supply fell short of rising demand. read more

Russia’s largest miner Nornickel produces around 20% of the world’s supplies of high purity class 1 nickel, which is used in EV batteries, according to Benchmark Mineral Intelligence. Russia is also a large provider of aluminum, used in batteries.

To be sure, oil prices, which jumped to the highest levels since 2008 on Monday, could serve as a counterbalance, spurring greater interest in EVs after years of growing demand for gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks. read more

Rising EV prices - marked by hikes over the past year by Tesla and startup Rivian Automotive (RIVN.O) - matter because mainstream consumers are not going to pay a massive premium for a technology that many do not yet fully embrace.

The average EV sold for almost $63,000 in January in the United States, about 35% higher than the overall industry average for all vehicles of just over $46,000, according to research firm Cox Automotive.


JPhillips 03-09-2022 11:23 AM

Voter supression just like the GOP wanted.


NobodyHere 03-09-2022 04:21 PM

Well this is good news

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/09/energ...ase/index.html

RainMaker 03-09-2022 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3362707)


If the Saudis chime in next, it means someone finally used their leverage.

Ksyrup 03-09-2022 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3362583)
5% of the ballots cast in the TX primary in Harris County were rejected absentee ballots. Not 5% of absentee balots, 5% of total ballots.

GOP getting just what they wanted.


Further numbers on this:


Edward64 03-09-2022 11:08 PM

No idea who this guy is. Sounds like a Trump-lite.

Quote:

South Korea has chosen a conservative opposition candidate, Yoon Suk-yeol, as the country's next president following a tightly-contested race.

Mr Yoon, a political novice, edged out a victory over the Democratic Party's Lee Jae-myung based on promises to tackle class inequality.

He called his win a "victory of the great South Korean people".

But the result was one of the closest in history - with the final count separated by less than 1%.
This caught my eye. I wonder what his position is on US troops on SK soil (assume he is good with it). Still contend US troops shouldn't be in the DMZ but further south. SK has enough $ to own the DMZ.
Quote:

In the foreign policy space, Yoon has promised a tougher "reset" on relations with China and North Korea and indications of closer ties with the US.

Edward64 03-10-2022 09:34 PM

One less thing for Biden to worry about.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/sena...raine-aid.html
Quote:

The Senate passed a $1.5 trillion funding bill Thursday night to keep the government running through September and bolster both humanitarian and military efforts in Ukraine.

The legislation will head to President Joe Biden for his signature. The House passed it on Wednesday.

The Senate approved the funding bill in a 68-31 vote.

Congress had to approve a spending bill by Friday to prevent a government shutdown. Lapses in funding can lead to furloughs of federal workers, hinder the economy and force the government to scale back services.
We give Ukraine $13.6B and scrap $15.6B for Covid stuff. Not sure how I feel about that. Ukraine needs the assistance immediately but I remember reading the Covid stuff was partially to prepare for the next outbreak.

I guess go with the sure thing (Ukraine needs help) and bet another really bad covid mutation doesn't happen anytime soon.

Quote:

The bill passed Thursday includes $13.6 billion in aid for Ukraine as the country enters its third week of fighting off a Russian invasion. The money will go toward helping the Ukrainians displaced by the Russian assault, including the more than 2 million people who have fled the country.
:
The House had to scrap $15.6 billion in supplemental coronavirus relief funds from the plan after a dispute over how to meet Republican demands to offset the spending. While the House aims to pass the pandemic aid bill next week, it may not have enough GOP support to get through the Senate.
:

Edward64 03-10-2022 10:08 PM

re: the new SK President, appreciated him wanting closer ties with US, repairing ties with Japan, and "sternly cope with NK". Only ask is don't do the last thing too quickly, let's settle the Russian-Ukrainian first. Don't think Biden can handle another crisis right now.

https://apnews.com/article/covid-bus...a69bcf2094dc2b
Quote:

South Korean President-elect Yoon Suk Yeol said Thursday he will solidify an alliance with the United States, build a powerful military and sternly cope with North Korean provocations, hours after he won a hard-fought election to become the country’s next leader.

Yoon, a conservative whose single five-year term begins in May, said during the campaign that he would make a stronger alliance with the United States the center of his foreign policy. He accused outgoing liberal President Moon Jae-in of tilting toward North Korea and China and away from the U.S. He also stressed a need to recognize the strategic importance of repairing ties with Japan despite a bitter dispute over wartime history.

RainMaker 03-10-2022 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3362834)
One less thing for Biden to worry about.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/sena...raine-aid.html

We give Ukraine $13.6B and scrap $15.6B for Covid stuff. Not sure how I feel about that. Ukraine needs the assistance immediately but I remember reading the Covid stuff was partially to prepare for the next outbreak.

I guess go with the sure thing (Ukraine needs help) and bet another really bad covid mutation doesn't happen anytime soon.
:


Defense contractors will always come first.


Edward64 03-13-2022 06:15 AM

Somewhat interesting to me. The Ukrainian war spilling into Asia didn't occur to me (well, other than a general nuclear war). It seems weird Duterte would all of sudden remind everyone of the defense pact when he's been antagonistic towards US and more pro-China.

Ukraine war spilling over not what he should be worried about. It's the more aggressive nature of China in SEA and slow overtaking of the Spratley Islands.

Duterte's term is ending and don't know much about who will win. But hope Biden takes this opportunity to build up the Quad. Philippines government may be iffy, but the people are pro-US.

Duterte pledges to open Philippines to U.S. forces if Russia’s Ukraine invasion escalates
Quote:

The Philippine government is reportedly willing to open the country to American troops should the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine escalate into a fight with U.S. involvement.

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte cited the country’s 1951 Mutual Defense Treaty with the U.S. in a recent meeting in Manila, according to Ambassador Jose Manuel del Gallego Romualdez, Manila’s envoy to Washington, on Thursday.

Under the treaty, the U.S. and the Philippines must come to the aid of the other should an attack ensue.

While Duterte spent the early years of his presidency openly criticizing U.S. policies, American officials have reportedly given their assurance that they would honor their treaty should Filipino forces ever come under attack.

Edward64 03-13-2022 06:26 AM

Speaking of the Quad, it's pretty obvious work has to be done with India. I think India is part of the Quad because of her position to counter China. But India really isn't bought into aligning with the US like Japan, Australia.

Her default stance is neutrality. India believes US can't be trusted because of the history with Pakistan etc.

Not sure how, but if I was Biden I would sell more military equipment, encourage redirect of corporate investments that once went to China to India, give whatever favorable trade status etc. I've said that China plays the long game, I'd say the same about India. However China is more subtle, more strategic about it, and more successful.

Brian Swartz 03-14-2022 10:20 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...s-no-fly-zone/

These are the kind of articles that make me want to scream. Possibly a paywall for some, but basically it's a look at how the public expresses itself in ways that lead to amazement that they manage to tie their shoes in the morning.

** 77% support banning Russian oil imports, while 70% disapprove of Biden's response to both inflation in general and rising gas prices in particular.

** 28% of those who favor a no-fly zone in Ukraine also don't want us to shoot down Russian planes. Umm, pick one. You don't get the first without the second.

It's one thing to not expect perfect grace and consistency, we're all biased human beings. But it would be nice if, as a society/body politic, we could get to the point where we weren't regularly engaging in this level of cognitive dissonance by simultaneously endorsing mutually exclusive positions.

Edward64 03-14-2022 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3363233)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...s-no-fly-zone/

These are the kind of articles that make me want to scream. Possibly a paywall for some, but basically it's a look at how the public expresses itself in ways that lead to amazement that they manage to tie their shoes in the morning.

** 77% support banning Russian oil imports, while 70% disapprove of Biden's response to both inflation in general and rising gas prices in particular.

** 28% of those who favor a no-fly zone in Ukraine also don't want us to shoot down Russian planes. Umm, pick one. You don't get the first without the second.

It's one thing to not expect perfect grace and consistency, we're all biased human beings. But it would be nice if, as a society/body politic, we could get to the point where we weren't regularly engaging in this level of cognitive dissonance by simultaneously endorsing mutually exclusive positions.


The first one is somewhat legit. Biden was having inflation issues and rising gas prices before the war started.

Yeah, the second one is pretty weird.

miami_fan 03-15-2022 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3363233)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...s-no-fly-zone/

These are the kind of articles that make me want to scream. Possibly a paywall for some, but basically it's a look at how the public expresses itself in ways that lead to amazement that they manage to tie their shoes in the morning.

** 77% support banning Russian oil imports, while 70% disapprove of Biden's response to both inflation in general and rising gas prices in particular.

** 28% of those who favor a no-fly zone in Ukraine also don't want us to shoot down Russian planes. Umm, pick one. You don't get the first without the second.

It's one thing to not expect perfect grace and consistency, we're all biased human beings. But it would be nice if, as a society/body politic, we could get to the point where we weren't regularly engaging in this level of cognitive dissonance by simultaneously endorsing mutually exclusive positions.


This is another example of why one side of the political aisle can say that Group X believes this and the other side can say that Group X believes the complete opposite. Neither side is actually telling a lie.

Racer 03-15-2022 07:28 PM

Senate passes bill to make Daylight Saving Time permanent

I wasn't sure where to post this but I hope this passes the House too. I'm surprised anything in the Senate these days has such broad support. I prefer having an extra hour of daylight in the evening over an extra hour of daylight in the morning.

tarcone 03-15-2022 09:00 PM

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FINALLY DOES SOMETHING.

I am in full support of getting rid of that stupid BS

Daylight savings time, its the damn 21st century, lets catch up.

henry296 03-15-2022 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone (Post 3363318)
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FINALLY DOES SOMETHING.

I am in full support of getting rid of that stupid BS

Daylight savings time, its the damn 21st century, lets catch up.


I'm not sure what I think about 8:30 AM sunrises on Christmas morning.

tarcone 03-15-2022 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry296 (Post 3363319)
I'm not sure what I think about 8:30 AM sunrises on Christmas morning.


More time for Santa to deliver presents

AlexB 03-16-2022 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer (Post 3363313)
Senate passes bill to make Daylight Saving Time permanent

I wasn't sure where to post this but I hope this passes the House too. I'm surprised anything in the Senate these days has such broad support. I prefer having an extra hour of daylight in the evening over an extra hour of daylight in the morning.


Agree, wish they would do this here too


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