I went digging for more info on the Wisconsin thing as I was really confused about who did what and when and I found this political analyst on facebook spelling it out:

Pelosi, Schumer call for another $500B-plus as part of ‘interim’ coronavirus relief bill

How many stimulus packages to do we need? We haven't even spent the first one yet and Trump has decided that no accountability is needed on how the money is spent.

The one thing that gets bipartisan support nowadays is spending lots of money.

I really wish someone cared about the debt.

The Dems need to say no to anything unless it includes better oversight and voting protections.

If they don't, they're complicit.

SI

Once we OPEN UP OUR GREAT COUNTRY, and it will be sooner rather than later, the horror of the Invisible Enemy, except for those that sadly lost a family member or friend, must be quickly forgotten. Our Economy will BOOM, perhaps like never before!!!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 8, 2020

This attitude will guarantee we're back to mass isolations in a month or two.

Fits with this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/cor...-self-isolate/
I think that is insanely premature if actually aplied oitside critical jobs (and by that i mean healthcare and food production)

Is it really that costly if people stay home 10 business days versus sending the more likely candidates for being infected back into contact with people ? Even if they follow the guidelines and execute properly (wearing a mask all day and not screw up is tricky) they are hardly foolproof. Especially with the Masks unlikely to be 'the good stuff' and presumably their colleagues not wearing one.

Just seems weird to put a muzzle on the fox and sending him into the hen house is still inherently more risky than kepping him away.

Wonder if Fauci/Birks agree/support this or had to essentially concede it with even worse ideas on the table.

GIVE US TESTS YOU IGNORANT FUCKS!

This thing passes when people are asymptomatic. Taking temperatures makes as much sense as asking someone if they've been to Wuhan.

You want us back to work? You want things back to normal? You want the GDP growing again? Guess what? SO DO WE. We just aren't willing to kill our parents (who are your voters by the way) to do it.

Spend 1% of the time and effort you spend yelling at reporters getting us tests AND WE WILL--EAGERLY--GET BACK TO WORK.

dola:

I'll get off this in a second b/c I could talk about it until the heat death of the universe, and I know that I'm not convincing anyone of anything.

But, I mean, they know what they have to do to get what they want. And they are so allergic to actually doing the right thing that they aren't doing it. They would rather not get what they want if getting what they want means having to admit that scientists are correct.

We have Ammon Bundy back in the news out here. He's encouraging residents to reopen their businesses and trying to get a 1,000+ person Easter service organized in defiance of state orders while promising armed protection against government overreach.

These people drive me nuts. Stop being part of the problem!

The testing thing is actually happening now, unless i'm missing something. The way I'm reading the numbers, we're up to the point that only a handful of nations worldwide are testing in higher numbers than we are on a population-adjusted basis. It's also continuing to go up. Was less than 140k daily a few days ago, up to 160k yesterday and should be about that much at least today - though I think we're close to the lab capacity limit so in the short term I don't think we can go a lot higher.

That's not excusing the screwups and inaction earlier in the process, I'm just saying it really is happening now, unless I've missed something.

I hope you are right.

Widely available testing (not taking temperatures) will be the way we get out of this before a vaccine.

Put an answer in the other thread, seems to fit better there :)

They can't even get health care workers masks, how are they going to get the work force masks?

I don't see how testing helps until we are at the point of being able to test everyone at once/repeatedly. Just because I passed the test yesterday doesn't mean I didn't contract it today.

The CDC is advocating home-made masks. My girlfriend sewed about 10 last night for friends and co-workers. I have no idea how much it helps, but that is the official advice and what some businesses are requiring.

Yep. My wife is a nurse (thankfully working at a NICU, which should carry a somewhat lesser risk) and has tested negative, but she's been back to work again since, so who knows?

The only tests which are of any use in my mind are a) positive tests, or b) positive antibody tests.

This was my thought as well. Every morning you go into work your employer tests you. If youre positive you go home and isolate for 14 days. If you're negative you stay at work and if you leave and come back you have to get tested again. Schools, sporting events, concerts, restaurants would also test when you come in.

Only really helps if everybody wears them and does so diligently/properly (change when wet, washing hot after every use, not pulling down all the time to drink, not constantly touching the cloth etc) even then no substitute for practicing social distancing. Essentially an extra layer of protection, but not if you then end up sitting bunched up in Meetings or huddled over a worktable like before the Virus.

Nobody is ever going to be able to test that much, unless much better (faster and more accurate) tests show up. It still helps to isolate those you know for sure have it, esp. once we get past the peak in terms of hospital capacity. Those people then don't spread it around as much, etc.

Art Laffer is being considered to chair some sort of reopening committee. His ideas so far include taxing non-profits and cutting the salaries of public workers and college professors, and then something something with the money.

Seriously, that's his plan.

Thats terrible. Our Governor cut spending to higher education a couple weeks ago because of budget short falls. And then they feds want to tax them? AMd public workers? Wow, F the middle class. Once again carrying the burden.

Why not tax the damn rich.

"But I'm not voting because Joe Biden would be just as bad or somesuch"

SI

Aren't you a conservative Trump supporter? And you're asking why they aren't proposing to tax the rich?

You must not pay attention.

Not either of those things. Independent, with a leaning towards things that affect me. For example, Im for M4A. Absolutely think it is a must. Anti-big corp, they get a free pass all the time. Pro 2nd amendment, I believe in gun rights and think all should have the right to own a gun.

Many issues I go left or right. I do not shoe horn myself into a party and just blindly pull a lever. I think for myself. I, also, believe there should be a multiple party system in this country, because both these parties are the exact same.

Has anyone checked to see if spontaneous spinal growth is a side effect of Corona?

Congressional Dems again refusing to roll over and vote for a "Everything the GOP wants and nothing you want" bill from McConnell/Trump.

This is some through the looking glass shit.

Big holdup seems to be that Trump/GOP is refusing to include money for states/localities and hospitals as part of the increased business relief being proposed.

While I may not agree with Tarcone in saying both parties are the same, I think the bill will pass once the parties agree that they both get to spend a lot of money.

In defense of our governor they can't just "release" 2 trillion dollars on a whim to cover costs like the feds they actually have to balance the budget. Now of course they could find other revenue streams though I doubt higher taxes will go over with anyone.

:lol:

Great idea, no way that has ramifications down the line !

Hospitals are bound to run up huge losses during this, both those hard hit and those preparing like they should by cutting elective (and often lucrative) procedures.

And this whole "unemployment can't be incentivised" thinking from that Laffer guy is so damn ancient even outside a crisis situation ... If the US would consider joining the Rest of the major western nations in the 21st century, they are saving you a seat.

Who is the first Fox person or right-wing radio host to come out and say that COVID killing minorities is actually a good thing?

No way man. We're better than the rest of the world, and we're bigger too, so everything that other countries have done is irrelevant. It just wouldn't work here/is socialism/no reason, just fuck the people - take your pick.

Also the 21st century is scary. We really, really liked the 1950s over here, those are the "good old days", back when women were in the kitchen and far fewer people raised a stink when you killed black people who got in the way of things. Come to think of it, the 1850s were even better, but, well, best not say that in too straight forward a manner.

Donald Trump

Much like me, though I lean left, and as far as the bolded part, no truer words have ever been spoken. We need a LOT more moderates in government because despite what many seem to believe, you can support a woman's right to choose, legal marijuana, the second amendment and a strong military at the same time.

The only real way to get a multi party system in the US is to go to a Parliamentary system, at least in one house. Otherwise, the consequences of taking votes from one of the big coalition parties is way too risky.

Or Ranked Voting everywhere.

this

Yes please.

Some structural changes that I think would help:

(1) Enshrine 9 Supreme Court justices in the Constitution. They serve 18 year terms. Every 4-year Presidential administration gets to pick two. If one dies/retires during her term, then you can nominate a replacement, but only for the length of that term.

(2) As the population increases, we get more reps. As each member of the House has to represent more and more people, they get less and less attuned to the people they are supposed to be representing and instead simply become pawns of the national parties. Making more of them would keep them more grounded.

(3) The Senate retains the filibuster, but in drastically changed form. If 41 or more senators want to "filibuster" something, that means that they can delay it for 60 days--during which time they can flood the airways with ads arguing against the proposed law. But, after that time, the legislation can be voted on.

(4) We still average 2 senators per state. But the 1/3 least-populated states get 1 senator, and the 1/3 most populated get 3.

(5) Fix Gerrymandering (I'd adopt a mathematical model like the shortest splitline algorithm, or the minimum district to convex polygon ratio, but there are several solutions to the problem)

(6) Put lots of money into elections--the major parties (defined as having received >X% of votes in the last election) are each given public money to spend on federal races. This would diminish the value of additional money given by big donors. That avoids campaign finance restrictions being struck down on First Amendment grounds.

(7) Ranked Voting.

(8) Vote by mail mandatory in all 50 states.

(9) No felon disenfranchisement.

(10) Current prisoners are allowed to vote--their votes count for the address at which they lived before they were imprisoned. That is also where they are counted as living for census/apportionment purposes.

I would argue that ranked voting probably would just lead to the same 2 party system in the end.

The dumbest country continues to put the dumbest people in charge of things.

Yep, because nothing says dumb like a PhD in economics from Stanford.

It's always a con(spiracy) on this forum.

Was the napkin not available for the job?

He's a failed economist who has the power to turn anything to shit that he touches. His last foray into politics was as a lead economic adviser to Sam Brownback in Kansas. The governor who practically destroyed the state with his moronic economic policies.

Only people with a vested interested in his policies (wealthy people who want a tax cut) or incredibly stupid people take him seriously.

strong

And here we are.

It is really good fortune that the most important tool available now (testing) is quantifiable. Gives Trump him the chance to claim to have "the most" of something.

I'm not saying you should like him. I'm saying you don't accomplish what Laffer has by being dumb - he demonstrably isn't. I don't get why we have to exaggerate and/or flat make up flaws about people who have plenty of legit things to criticize them for.

Meanwhile, I now state for the record that I am in the category herein described as 'incredibly stupid'. Incidentally that would be a surprise to people who know me, but beyond that anybody accomplished at this level is worth taking seriously. I don't care who they've worked for or whether they are to the left of Krugman or the right of Friedman by a zillion miles, the relevant point is their qualifications and what it takes to achieve those. I.e., the average joe down at the pub doesn't have the mental capacity.

https://medium.com/incerto/the-intel...t-13211e2d0577

Also read Skin in the Game. Great book.