They do seem to be violating this part:


But feel free to continue the snark.

Eh... when talking about "wrecking the country" one should look at GDP growth since he took over. Russia was a train wreck when he took power and has grown by leaps and bounds since there. There is a reason he's popular in the Russian Federation.

If you insist. Really, though, it's kewl, dude...we'll just make some noise at the UN, they'll do nothing. Ukraine will just be absorbed into the Soviet Union, or Russian Federation or whatever it is they call it these days, and we won't miss our tee times.

Of course, in the future, if I were a country negotiating with the West about giving up nuclear weapons in exchange for "security arrangements" I'd lol and say, "yeah, we've seen how that one plays out. We'll keep our nukes, thanks."

Care to point out where the West has violated the terms of the Budapest Memorandum? Or are you going to prattle on about tee times. Wait, who was it who said "Watch this drive"?

Push for the the 2018 World Cup to be removed from Russia?

:D

So they found more oil and expanded their exports at a time when the price of oil increased 10x. None of which disputes anything JPhillips posted.

I don't think we have much control over FIFA. And, considering their decision to hold the 2022 Cup in a sauna, I'm not sure we want much control over it. It's a hopelessly corrupt and ineffectual regime that produces one economic nuclear weapon every four years.

But, Europe does have a lot of control over FIFA, if somewhat united. This would be a good consensus threat - a list of European countries that would pull out or lobby for a new venue if Russia doesn't withdraw.

It can't go unnoticed that Putin made this move within days of the Olympics ending. These shows are important to the Russians and the awarding of these major world tournaments indicates legitimacy.

I wish our president would learn more about a situation before he starts drawing lines, though. That way, he can go into a meeting without looking like a fool afterward when Putin keeps his troops in place. Has Obama never played poker before?

Putin also dealt with the oligarchs and made at least some of them divest their ownership. That oil was always there - so why wasn't it exploited during Yeltsin's time?

You misunderstand me. I'm giving him credit on the oil thing, even if it was achieved through oligarchy. This, plus giving Russians consistency at the top of their government (no small thing following what happened when the Soviet Union dissolved), is the good. The stuff JPhillips mentioned (most of which is of the "ticking time bomb" variety) is the bad.

It wasn't economically feasible to do so. The price per barrel in the early-mid 90s sat in the $20-25 range. Now that is 4x that price, it makes it worthwhile.

It's a creative idea, and could possibly work given that the major leagues, UEFA and the major clubs are already not very happy about the Qatar WC, mainly about it being held during the winter months.

But, to be fair, the Soviet Union did do a pretty terrible job of oil production. Most any biography of a Russian oligarch you read, even the most critical, acknowledge that if these guys did anything, they made the old government franchises actually operate efficiently and bring modern methods to drilling and extraction.

It's a bit out there...but it would certainly send a message. Isn't the 2022 World Cup in danger of being removed from Qatar now due to the timing, human rights, and corruption?

How are you missing the point? You must be a lawyer. Lawyers are great at getting into the legalese of documents and arguing, no, we didn't REALLY violate the terms of the agreement as written (and defining the spirit of an agreement is too damn esoteric, anyway). However, if you'd like me to spell it out, if the signatories agree to honor and protect the boundaries of a sovereign state in exchange for that state giving up its big club (nukes)...and then you watch as everyone stands by and does nothing, or worse, makes idle threats and then does nothing as one of the signatories breaks the agreement and gobbles up that state, what makes you think I'm going to be willing to give up my big club in exchange for the same or similar agreements? Then again, they also say a sucker is born every minute.

But it's largely on the back of resource gathering rather than more sustainable industry. It's certainly better than nothing, but it leaves the economy very susceptible to booms and busts based on commodity prices.

You were the one that was arguing that the West was not honoring the agreement. There are tons of diplomatic channels being engaged at the moment. Not everything is going to be publicized or televised as things happen.

Again, you've more than made clear you think the current course of action is the wrong one, but haven't said what you think should be done.

It's not a computer game. Haven't we rushed into too many wars lately? There's not a damn thing we can do about it other than sanctions. If these warhawks have their way they would get us involved in a war with Russia for fun.

Besides, are they doing anything we haven't been doing for the last decade?

That's not really what happened. The Russians wanted "their" nukes back and Western nations wanted as few nuclear capable countries as possible. We made that agreement so that the nukes were in hands more reliable than the Ukrainians. They wanted something in return for giving up the nukes(although they never wanted to be a part of the nuclear club), so everyone made some non-binding security agreements.

Lets rush into a war with a nuclear country in a part of the world we are not familiar with over a piece of land no one here knew existed last week.

You didn't know the Ukraine existed?

No one knew what Crimea was last week. Everyone is an expert on it now.

I haven't heard what impact all this is having on the Paralympics, which start in Sochi on Friday.

Apparently the ruble and the Russian stock market tanked today.

Here's a good take on the weakness of the Russian position:


http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/20...y/ideas/nexus/

Well maybe no one that doesn't play Paradox games. I can tell you who ruled the area at various points from the 800s to 1948.

Umm ... huh?

Any student of the Cold War era (and/or the Soviet military) is familiar with the region due to Sevastopol.

Other students of history are familiar with the basics of the region due to a little thing called The Crimean War. The Charge of the Light Brigade plays a role in it's familiarity as well.

While it's not, say, Canada or something in terms of familiarity for most folks it's also not some backwater than no one has ever heard of either.

Have you ever watch the "Jay Walking" segment during Jay Leno's run on The Tonight Show? I wouldn't trust the opinion or knowledge of the average American.

I also wouldn't trust a tv segment that was edited for comedy to give a fair perspective on things.

I was well aware of Crimea and some of its recent history (charge of the light brigade and all that) but I would have bet you a fair amount of money it was part of Russia and not the Ukraine. What a mess this is going to become.

Wasn't my point.

I'd wager most of the country couldn't even tell you where and what the capital of Canada is. And I'd wager well over 90% couldn't even tell you who the PM of that country is.

So while I'm sure cold war scholars and history buffs know about Crimea, the majority of people spouting opinions likely didn't know it existed yesterday. And the only reason they have a strong opinion on it is because their team told them to have one.

I agree.

There's a lot of stupid in this country.

Actually, we were more worried about those nukes falling into the hands of Islamic extremists, so it was a good deal for us, especially considering all the instability of that region at the time. As bad as 9/11 was, it would have been a lot worse if a mushroom cloud was involved.

Not a bad idea. I don't know how effective it would be. The US and 65 or so other countries boycotted the 1980 Olympics games in Moscow after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan...and all it meant was more gold medals for mother Russia.

So I'm guessing this is going to be a whole lot of 'mobilization' with no real battle. Hard negotiations will take place - maybe Russia will get Crimea back, while Europe and the US get to place military bases in West Ukraine. Though East Ukraine wants to be Russian right now as well (it really was stupid for the Ukrainian Parliament to remove Russian as one of the official languages of the country).

It would certainly make Putin look bad, since he loves the spotlight that these global games bring. it would put a lot pressure on FiFA. since it's a team sport competition, and you have that global media presence 24/7 that doesn't compare to 1980.

Do you believe they want to be their own country or actually be part of Russia?

Oh, I think they want to be part of Russia.

I still think this is all just posturing. All sides have too much to lose.

I knew about Crimea.

Boom. That just happened.

Ukrainian-Russian Tensions Dividing U.S. Citizens Along Ignorant, Apathetic Lines | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

On the whole Crimean thing ... maybe it's just an exposure thing as to Rainmaker's take versus mine.

So far, of my often very politically charged FB wall, I'm one of exactly 2 people I've seen even mention the subject. Yeah, both me & the other commentator arrived with at least working knowledge of the Crimean region well before last week. Beyond that I'm simply not seeing anything from the couldn't-find-it-on-the-map contingent, despite it being well represented (sad but true) amongst my politically inclined friends.

When Margaret thatcher died, I was at my friend's house and blurted out, "Oh, Margaret thatcher died." (viewing the headline online). He asked who she was. *facepalm*

Margaret who? Kidding ... just kidding ...

Some talking heads are saying Crimea is lost and I agree. I think Obama was outmaneuvered here but not sure any other administration could have done better as Crimea is next door and is clearly very strategic to Russia.

Ukraine PM to fly to U.S. to discuss Crimea crisis - CNN.com

It's less Obama having been outmanuevered then Merkel/the E.U. It's really got very little to do with/of minimal importance to the US. Slightly more to the EU, but really even that pales in comparison to its importance to Russia.

It's akin to Canada or Mexico to us. You wouldn't say Russia got outmaneuvered for failing to exercise influence in Canada or Mexico, so its a bit disingenuous to say the US got outmaneuvered in Crimea.

It'd be nice if we could have had more influence on what happens there, but its not really realistic.

Possibly the only other action was to coach Ukraine to play down the rhetoric (or actually, play up the rhetoric towards Russia to reassure them).

The irony runs deep in this one: Feinstein: CIA searched Intelligence Committee computers - The Washington Post

This is like the psychic that didn't see their demise coming. Seriously, America's intelligence agencies have been pretty much given carte blanche to spy on its citizens, but, now you only complain because they did it to you?

Ukraine, I'm sorry but you are clearly in Russia sphere of influence/control and the majority of the pop in Crimea voted to return (even if there were voting irregularities, I think the majority vote would have been the same).

You lost Crimea, let it go. Play to retain the independence of the rest of the country.

Kremlin says Crimea is now officially part of Russia after treaty signing, Putin speech - The Washington Post

Playing a game of chicken that everyone knows you will ultimately lose (and may lose all).

Ukraine cries 'robbery' as Russia annexes Crimea - CNN.com

Obama, economic aid to Ukraine and sanctions are good. Don't think about anything else or talk about a red line. If the GOP pressures you, ask them about Georgia.