dola -

The 2nd part, the first part I'm fine with.

Mets aren't playing well, to many injury issues.
I expect nothing less than a sweep, to bury the Mets even further.
Also, with the Marlins and Braves playing each other, this is prime time for the Phillies to open up the gap between those 2 teams.

We better soak it in because I have a bad feel the Eagles are going to suck bad this year.

Umm...yeah. I don't care how many toys the Iggles have on offense, they're going to do nothing with no offensive line or defense.

Maybe we dropped the wrong pitcher into the bullpen? Hamels does not look good at all right now.

So Francoeur has been looking pretty good since joining the Mets, close to .300, 5 HRs, 20+ RBI. Something to look forward to, or just a hot start with a new team?

why are the Red Sox claiming Wagner off waivers from the Mets? What's the point? He doesn't fix any of the issues the team has.

Don't see how it can really hurt them. Not gonna lie, I don't know much of anything about the Red Sox bullpen, but a former All-Star lefty can't be a bad thing, especially with rosters expanding shortly.

I would figure the point is to have a second lefty in the pen & to add some major league experience to the group as well. Right now I think Papelbon is actually the senior member of the group in terms of experience, in his fifth season.

Yankees are gonna win the world series.

Joe Sheehan once said Francoeur will eventually put up a .300/.340/.550 type season and everyone will think he's figured things out. Hopefully does it with the Mets, but I'm also scared that the Mets would then rush to lock him up long-term.

Just got home a few minutes ago after an infrequent trip to Turner Field.

Kind of a special occasion of sorts as it was the first in person MLB game for my 80 y/o mother-in-law (something I didn't realize she'd never done until just a few weeks ago).

Interesting to hear the thing that stood out most to her about being there vs watching on TV: that she never really appreciated the distance from the OF to home plate until tonight & how much more impressive that added perspective made throws to home without a relay. Not something I would have guessed that would stand out if you had given me 20 tries but I thought it was interesting.

My own little observations were that, in spite of a kind of odd sightline (club level, last section down the left field line before it starts turning the corner toward the outfield seats), the Golden Moon Casino Bobby Cox Section tickets are one hell of a good deal. $6 each for regular $28/$30 tickets, with the minimal crowding on the club level & not an obnoxious drunk sight all night. At that price, I'll take the weird angle & distance and be quite happy with it thank you very much.

Hanson is fun to watch pitch and I really enjoyed the professionalism of Javier Vazquez pinch hitting for Hanson & getting a good bunt down on the first pitch (bench was very short with three players unavailable with injuries).

Is Club level at Turner Field like at Miller Park where you need a Club Ticket to even enter the concourse?

Yep.

Camden Yards is like that, too.

That seems to be the best way to keep the riff raff out.

Game ending unassisted triple play, unbelievable.

:confused:

Phillies - Mets game apparently, according to boxscores, since EF didn't say in original post.

Sorry, yes. In one of the craziest innings. Inning starts off with a ground ball through Ryan Howard and into right for a three base error. Next batter ground ball to Eric Bruntlett at second giving Utley the day off and he bobbles it for two errors onthe first two batters (just what a struggling Lidge needs).

Next batter ground ball up the middle Bruntlett gets to it but bobbles it (would have had the runner at second if he didn't bobble it). Play ruled a hit. 1st and 2nd with no outs, 1 run in to make it a 2 run game and not one ball should have made it out of the infield.

2-2 count on Franceur (sp?) and they send the runners. He hits a line drive to Bruntlett who was covering second. Steps on the bag for the second out and tags the runner from first (actually the runner pretty much baks up into center field to avoid being tagged and gets called for out of the base path, I think he would have backed up to the warning track if he had to the way he was going).

That was probably the most insane thing I've ever seen watching baseball. Glad I didn't just hide my head on the covers after a run in and no outs in the ninth :)

i'll have to catch it on sportscenter

I still can't believe what I saw. Between the lousy defense to set it up and that was the ball that was hit the best all inning.

First time in MLB history that a game has ended on an unassisted triple play.

Second actually...from ESPN:

Or the third according to AP

Ha...sounds like the Stats/Elias computers are running a little slow today.

Bruntlett just might be the worst defensive infielder in the league.

The fact that he gets the unassisted triple play is just mind-bottling.

I want to thank the Red Sox for giving up on Smoltz and Lugo. Lugo's hitting .300 and actually shoring up a rough SS rotation and Smoltz was dealing today!

At least it's not mind-boggling. ;)

Awesome.

In case people missed the reference, it's from the underrated Blades of Glory with Farrell and Heder.

I've stolen it for my own vocabulary.

9 K's in 5 IP's. Pretty impressive.

To be honest, that's actually the first thing that I noticed when I went to my first baseball game in person (in the old Yankee Stadium) - that the distance from the wall to home plate looked HUGE in person compared to on TV.

It's certainly not helping the perception among AL East fans that the NL is a AAAA league.

and PING: Mets fans - I think people were just joking, but now possibly Santana too? Johan scratched, to see doctor Tuesday | MLB.com: News Just send anyone valuable left home at this point.

There's no one valuable left.

I think the top and bottom feed that a bit. 4 of the top 6 salary teams are from the AL and 4 of the bottom 5 teams are from the NL. I think interleague play was 137-114, with the Angels, Yankees and Red Sox going 35-19. Those three teams combine for more salary than most of the divisions in the NL.

Still, the Phillies won last year and there's a strong chance that Philly, St. Louis or LA wins this year.

Last I checked, the AL only has a 5-4 advantage in World Series Champions this decade. Yeah, that's a landslide right there.

I'm not saying it's the truth, but watching castoffs turn into all-stars and very good players turn into superhuman ones (Manny, Holliday) feeds the perception. And those salary cutoffs are quite arbitrary and misleading - I could say 5 of the top 9 teams are from the NL and 6 of the bottom 10 are AL. Using season-opening payrolls* and without adding up past the million mark, AL teams averaged $92.9m and NL teams $83.3m - but the difference is essentially the Yankees and their payroll $80m higher than any other AL team. FWIW, you also pick the #4 AL team in payroll (LAA) over #3 DET and 2 of the 3 NL teams that really bring down their numbers actually had winning records - Florida and Pittsburgh.

And a WS is certainly possible in any 7 game series, which is why perception really doesn't matter, but Philly with their 6-12 record in interleague, St. Louis being so bolstered by AL castoffs and the face of LA being Manny, its not the best of arguments.

*I'm too lazy to look at how things have seperated since then, but I suspect St. Louis went up quite a bit and Pitt and Cleveland have decreased a lot. Not sure what other big trades I'm forgetting.

I was going to suggest that the AL playing a bastardized version of the sport might play a role but not only have NL pitchers outhit their AL counterparts but NL DHs have outhit AL DHs as well.

NL pitchers: .145/.187/.186 in 4296 PAs
AL pitchers: .096/.128/.132 in 321 PAs

NL DHs: .277/.357/.457 in 532 PAs
AL DHs: .256/.340/.455 in 6913 PAs

But maybe it would look different if I could have found the stats for how those splits looked in interleague games only...

Higher payrolls, better scouting, and/or better talent development seem to be more likely causes for the AL performing better in interleague play in each of the 2004-9 seasons.

713-546 the past 5 years. Sample size.

Dola, I forgot - 12-0-1 in the last 13 all-star games, because clearly that's important :)

The AL has won the World Series 713 times in the past 5 years?

That is a damned impressive sample.

This time it counts!!!1!!

SI

RIP, 2009 San Francisco Giants.

Fucking Giants. I leave the country for 2 weeks and come back to this.

I didn't think it was possible for me to hate the Giants any more than I already did.

Their bullpen just proved me wrong.

How the fuck do they give up 5 runs in the 14th.

Ugh!

Hopefully that bad loss sends the Giants spiraling down leaving only one team for Atlanta to pass in the wild card race.

Rockies have been so much fun to watch the last few months. That game was crazy.

That looks like it would have been a really fun game to watch, seeing all the highlights.

SI

Err, what? Manny has a 152 OPS+ this year. Which is very impressive, but less than his OPS+ in 1996 with Boston and somewhat akin to his 1994 and 1995 in Boston, and, of course, a deal below his peak years in Cleveland and Boston. Wasn't the common Boston refrain that he got bored and wasn't trying... now he's just a "castoff"?

And Holliday started off really poorly this year in Oakland (sometimes it isn't all that easy to figure out a new league), but in the months before he was traded was massacring the ball. And Holliday's Batting Average for Balls in Play was insanely high right after he came over to St. Louis (for the entire month of July, which was split between Oakland and StL, it was .462).

For a guy who hasn't pitched in forever, this guy Wagner has some set of balls on him. Last week a report from his agent says "oh Billy can't wait to go to a contender and fight for a World Series", now Wagner is saying he won't waive his no-trade clause, although the Mets can just let him go for nothing, unless the Sox agree to decline his option AND don't offer him arbitration. I really hope the Mets just let the Sox claim go through.

I'm a Royals fan. I haven't seen a highlight in over two months.

Billy Wagner is a douchebag.

I'm going to give Wagner a pass on this one, and that's coming from someone who hates him and wishes the Mets could get whatever they can. He's leaving money on the table by wanting his option declined (there's no way he can be that delusional to think he'll make more) so if he wants to be a closer, and is willing to be paid less to do it, he is more than welcome to try. He negotiated that no trade fairly.

But there's no way the Sox pick him up without being able to offer him arbitration (in order to get that draft pick compensation when he signs elsewhere). I think the deal is almost as much about that sandwich pick in potentially one of the last few drafts without a slotting-system in place then it is about getting Wagner to pitch for the Sox. That's why they're willing to eat that chunk of his salary.

I'm with Logan. He's exercising his rights, and doing it smartly. If the Sox are only interested in the draft pick compensation, that hurts Wagner. If the Sox are interested in bringing him back as a setup man, that hurts Wagner. The only way Wagner gets to close next year is if the Sox trade him or he blocks the trade and hopes the Madoff-hit Mets don't offer arb. It looks like the smart move to me.

I can't believe Wagner hasn't pitched all year and is still a type A free agent. Compensation on relievers is utterly retarded, (LaTroy Hawkins is a type A!) and needs to be fixed.

First of all, I don't think Wagner would even be considered a Type A or B free agent at this point even if he was offered arb.

Second, why should Wagner care about what else Boston would receive? He quite literally wants nothing from them (unless there's a buyout associated with declining the option, in which case I would hope he would be waiving that...if he's seeking that consideration and isn't willing to, I would agree with you).

You beat me to this. Is this actually confirmed somewhere or speculation? I thought this comes out prior to free agency and after arbitration?

Oh I don't think Wagner should care what the Sox would receive.

I'm just saying from their standpoint I doubt the deal makes a ton of sense unless they have the chance to get a Type A pick for him. And if the deal doesn't make sense for the Sox it won't happen either.

I'm all for Wagner trying to get what he can, just saying I think in this case nothing is likely to happen because he's not willing to give what they want and they're not willing to give what he wants.

Rankings 082209

Some dude on MLBTR reverse engineered the ratings, and has been updating them from time to time. Wagner rates as a type A somehow.

I guess part of the problem with relievers is that there are more of them(at least 7 per roster) than most any position but 1b/OF. So, if like 10% of the guys are type A and something like the next 10% are type B, you're at the point where potentially each bullpen has 2 comp worthy guys.

Like if I were to re-do compensation, i'd cut the relievers down by at least a half.

Compensation is not based on just this year. Wagner was pretty decent before this season. I have no idea if he would rank an A or B or what, but I wouldn't be shocked if he is still a type A/B free agent.

Hence the NTC being a useful tool for a player.

Nope. Not at all. How many times can a team fail to move a runner over or hit a sac fly to get a guy home. Then when they finally get the hit that they have been waiting 3 hours for they give up 5 runs later in the inning to lose.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Yeah, i believe it's just the past 2 years(or is it 3), and he's thrown 2 innings this year. And is still firmly a type A. Something's broken with that.

I disagree. It is working as intended. It purposefully was set up to protect teams from a player who was a star player that encountered either a down year/off year or injury year from leaving for free agency for big bucks without the team getting any compensation.

It prevents a Manny Ramirez from purposefully dogging it in a final season and possibly leaving at only Type B free agency and hurting a team (and basically allowing the agent to hold that team hostage saying they need to meet their salary demands or get nothing for them.)

In this case, Wagner might not be some in his prime stud, but he was one of the best closers two seasons ago in the league. There should be something said for that. The system isn't perfect, but I have no problem with it looking back at more than just this season in considering compensation.

All this aside, I could've sworn that if a team declines an option, they can't offer arbitration, which means no compensation. This whole thing is blowing my mind. If the Mets trade him for anything less than an A prospect, that's reason #438 to fire Minaya.

Declining an option is not the same as declining arbitration. If you decline to pick up a team option, it simply means that player becomes a pending free agency and all other free agency rules still apply (ie: being allowed to offer them arbitration and receive compensation if they turn it down)

I'm almost positive you can decline an option and still offer arbitration. Just that chances are that you wouldn't do that.

Because in many cases you'd be setting yourself up for a potential 1 year contract through arbitration that was more than the option would have been in the first place.

Not only is Wagner an asshole, he's also an incredible pussy.


Yeah, just the kind of attitude you want from a potential closer.

The irony of a guy freely admitting that he's not as good as he once was, saying it would be hard on him because he's working on getting better and the fans wouldn't stand for it...and you coming on here and posting it.

Yes, because you know that Philly fans have come down really hard on Pedro since he signed. Oh, and Mets fans openly booed Pedro during his start, despite the fact that he wanted to come back and Mets management refused to. "shrug"

So... when did Scott Rolen go from the Jays to the Reds??

at the Trade deadline

I understand Wagner has the no trade clause and whatnot (although, correct me if im wrong, the Mets can just let the Red Sox claim him and be done with it, right?), and that he's trying to re-establish himself. But, for a guy who hasn't pitched in a long time, is pushing 40, he's really a douchebag. Ok, he doesn't want to be a setup man, well he's not gonna close in NY, so why not do exactly what it is he will be doing in NY, except for a team in a fight for the playoffs. To me he is just a selfish guy looking for the $$$. He doesn't want to be offered arbitration so he can cash in next yr as a FA. And with that article about him not wanting to go back to the Phils, ok, it's understandable with the history between them, but at the same time, he is a pussy. Grow a pair, man up and go try to win a damn World Series. Guy is just a selfish bag of douche in my opinion.

Great, those people are d-bags just like you.

Thanks... must have missed that. Stopped paying attention once they started sucking.

Looks like all the caterwauling might be for naught since lots of people are reporting Wagner will waive his no-trade. Be VERY interesting and telling to see what the final deal looks like.

Hoping its a good PTBNL. A decent prospect wouldn't pass through waivers right, unless he's not on the 40? Forget how that part works.

Agreed. I find absolutely nothing wrong with anything Wagner has said in this entire matter. He's actually handled it with a decent level of class.

Logan, I would bet dollars to donuts the Mets get nobody.

Edit: Nobody, or organizational filler.

See post 4369 Ron, I'm sure of it.

Saving $3.5 mil is probably more important than adding talent to a very hurting system.

Extra Bases - Red Sox blog


Even if it's two warm bodies that's more than I expected.

dola

I think the best thing for all involved, come to think of it, is that somehow Wagner is a Type B. Both the Sox and Wagner would be happy there, I'd imagine.

Was just thinking that. If I'm the Sox, I'm praying he doesn't end up an A. Little chance anyone signs him if they have to pay with their own 1st.

I should add, I don't think Wagner went about this the wrong way, and he's doing (or did, depending on what the whole situation is now) everything within his rights, I just find him to be a dbag in the sense that he's so worried about being a closer, has stated he wants to remain one and won't be happy otherwise, and he wants to reach 400 saves and pass franco as the all time saves leader for a lefty. These seem to be his priorities, which are all fine and dandy, but if I'm the GM of team, I wouldn't want this guy one bit, doesn't seem to worried about winning a title.

Nice with the personal attacks. You are a very classy fan.

This.

Also, let's not forget Wagner trashed Phillies fans and the team on his way out. It'll be interesting if he can hold back from laying a few soundbytes on his way out the door or during the next off-season.

You call Wagner "an incredible pussy", I call you a d-bag for it, and I'm the one lacking class?

So the Sox get Wagner and two draft picks for filler. Works for me, even if Wagner doesn't pitch much, with is a definite possibility. They seem pretty set in late-inning relief.

As has been said earlier. Holliday was doing very well in Oakland in June/July and just carried it on in St. Louis (it also helps to be hitting around Pujols). Manny's season has been worse in LA than most of his Boston years.

There are plenty of players that go the other way. Texiera was hitting .280 with a .902 OPS in almost 400 ABs for the Braves in 2008. He's traded to the Angles and has an OPS of 1.081 and .358 average in his final 200 ABs. Then, for the Yankees this season, he's hitting .290 with a .941 OPS. Seems like the NL east was a lot tougher to him than the AL. What about Russell Branyon? I his 300 ABs in the NL from 2007 to 2008, he was barely hitting .200 with 20 total HRs. In 419 ABs for Seattle this season, he's hitting 30 HRs and a .251 average. You can also look at Jason Bay (.745 and .890 OPS in pitt, .897 and .901 in Boston). Sometimes going from a crappy team to a better team makes players try more and do better. It goes the other way too. Just look at Milton Bradley (1.000 OPS in 400 ABs in Texas in 08, .766 OPS in 300 ABs in 09). How many times has ESPN said "Man, Milton Bradley has really struggled since coming into the NL"? Yet, if it was reversed, we'd see 3 columns a week on how the weak NL boosted his stats last season.

ESPN is dominated by Boston/NY AL fans who love to make this argument. But the interleague play is tightening up, the NL is just as successful in the postseason and there are just as many players than struggle in the NL and thrive in the AL as vice versa. Pitching stats are always going to be better in the NL because there's no DH - but that doesn't stop ESPN for bashing the NL for the lower ERAs of Sabathia, Lee and others.

J.J. Putz scratched from a rehab appearance today. So either another trade or another injury (I'm gonna lean on #2).

I'd say math makes that virtually impossible.

Hopefully the next CBA fixes some issues. Like give teams the option to tender as an A(perhaps arb plus a player option on a second season) or Type B(simply arb)

Depends. Are you Billy Wagner?

I wonder how hard the union will push to get rid of the entire compensation system in the next CBA. It seems like it has much more of an impact on team's decisions than was intended. Not that they have a lot of chips left themselves, now that there's some kind of drug testing.

oof

Playoff chances as calculated by Baseball Prospectus

Braves are down to 18.5% due to Colorado's recent form. A Dodger sweep this week would be pretty sweet. Atlanta actually scoring a run tonight wouldn't hurt either.

Capps is such a pile of shit.