If I was a wolf, and I thought he was a seer, the fact that he voted for me without revealing would mean that I wouldn't kill him.

The main reason I have been UTR is because I am simply trying to gain some perspective on everyone here. Everyone seems to know how other people play and how they act, and I am kind of the new kid on the block (been too damn long since I have played) I have simply been bandwagoning with others and it has turned out really bad for me. I really can't blame you guys for voting me, honestly, because I would be suspicious of someone that has voted for all villagers thus far. Just know that I am not a wolf and am simply trying to gain some footing.

You voted at 3:16 PM yesterday. I wouldn't call that bandwagoning with others.

The vote for today was the only one I didn't bandwagon - mainly because I feel that SnDvls vote for you yesterday meant something and I am going off that.

One thing that I think needs to be looked at is the Day 1 vote on Lathum. There's quite a lot of cleared/dead villagers already in the list. And I just bet there's one if not two wolves lurking in there.

So in addition to Passacaglia, I think we need to be taking a look at Danny. He's been fairly UTR.. rather noncommittal.. and pretty much overlooked thus far.

You know, now I'm beginning to wonder if SnDvls really did scan Pass. If he did and knew he was a wolf then why would he vote for me first? Not that this in any way clears Pass, but it does make his potential wolf-hood less of a sure thing.

Telle, did you read post 1883?

Yeah. Remembering reading that yesterday is what got me searching today for SnDvls' actual posts for his votes and unvote.

Rock. Let me know if there's anything I can dig up to help.

You know what? Seeing as how I'm rather conflicted with my vote on Pass, I'm just going to go ahead and follow up my thoughts on Danny with a vote on him.

UNVOTE PASSACAGLIA
VOTE DANNY

Here's another thought -- it could be that Sunny D scanned Telle and I both as wolves, and that he scans everyone the exact opposite. That would explain cronin not telling us how the fake seer scans -- if he tells us that, we have the potential for two seers.

Of course this goes back to the discussion earlier in the game: would Poli really make Lathum the real seer? Even though people routinely suspect him early in the game? Even after Lathum revealed (albeit very early in the voting day), people still didn't believe him until he was dead.

So mccollins, I see you haven't voted yet. What are your thoughts on the prospective candidates?

Telle, I don't know if you all cared or not, but how did you feel when Passacaglia 'outed' you as a mason?

On one hand, it served to spell out the in-fighting between RendeR/Telle and Alan (looks like he was trying to cover the tracks of identifying the masons), but on the other hand, is outing roles ever good for the village unless a villager is truly about to be lynched incorrectly?

From Pass's summation of the argument, it was plain for me to see you side-stepping a reveal (since you can't), but many many of us would not have caught on without Pass outing you.

In a turn of events, I am still 50-50 on Pass and this person sticks out a bit more to me for a combo of UTR play and his discussion of switching his vote on both sides of yesterday's deadline - it just seems out of place.

Vote PackerFanatic

That being said, I'll do with my vote whatever it takes to keep the person I'm 100% confident is a villager here another day.

What does this mean?

Oh, nm -- DISCUSSION of switching. Got it.

Anyway, what did you get that was wolfish out of him discussing that?

Right - why even talk about it? Seemed like he was creating himself an out. "See - I thought about switching my vote!"

I was thinking that, too, which is why I asked him about it -- but when he made the comment about switching, it seemed like he was right, that it wouldn't have made a difference. And he wouldn't have made the later comment unless I pressed him on it.

At the time I made the comment, olie was up by 2 or 3 votes (can't recall exactly and too lazy to look back) and a switch (which I was considering mainly because of discussion about the others in the running) wouldn't have made a difference. Then I thought about it - and realized I was thinking into it too much.

It's pretty obvious who you are, so I'm not going to doubt your intentions. Like all of our lynchings so far, this would be misguided though.

we got a count?

4 Passacaglia: Claphamsa (1864), PackerFanatic (1865), Lonestargirl (1923), Mrs. Schmidty (1936)
3 mccolins: EagleFan (1855), Schmidty (1921), Alan T (1935)
3 PackerFanatic: Danny (1931), Passacaglia (1932), mccollins (1965)
1 EagleFan: Chief Rum (1946)
1 Danny: Telle (1960)

thanks

Om, this is good. I think Pass got scanned as a wolf... and im coninced of Mccolins!! can we jsut lynch them both :)

RendeR and GoldenEagle have yet to vote.

If that's really what you think, you should vote mccollins. There's no reason to believe that Sunny D was the real seer.

My hunch is that you won't do it, though.

:confused: So you're sticking with the theory that Poli made Lathum the real seer? SnDvls never officially told us that he had any wolf scans and it would obviously be in your best interest not to let on like he did scan you as a wolf. Why are you avoiding an argument that would help you?

I'm just trying to make sense of what clap is thinking. If he's "convinced" that you're a wolf, that seems stronger to me than he "thinks" I was scanned and that Sunny D was more likely to be the real seer than Lathum. I don't think I've avoided any argument, rather I've tried to see why people are onto me, and work with that, instead of trying to discredit it.

While I've got your ear, mcscottins, I was hoping to get an answer from Telle about this, but since she's not speaking up, can you tell me how you felt when I did it? I couldn't tell from your post whether or not you were saying that you personally were onto them as Masons as well.

Pass, Telle's statement that "she was not revealing anything at all" stuck in my head, but I did not catch that she was a mason until you spelled it out.

Makes sense -- you seemed to take it with much less confusion than anyone else who replied to it. But what about the other part? How did you feel when I made that reveal?

Personally, I think a reveal is for a the roled person to make, but obviously that can't be done in this situation since she can't reveal.

I think reveals should be done as a last resort and thus closer to the deadline when it is obvious there is no other solution.

At the time it seemed unnecessary and really dropped like a bomb in the room.

So the choices are Pass, mccollins and PF...

My take, if it matters:

Pass: If he's a wolf it would have served us better to lynch yesterday and keep oliegirl alive but we need to get a wolf sooner or later (preferrably sooner), I am not getting a wolf vibe from him though

mccollins: He has fangs

PF: Starting to get a wolf feel from him, but not certain


If we're lucky we have 2 or 3 wolves here.

I'm staying on mccollins today and if he is not lynched he will be getting my vote tomorrow (barring a wolf revealing for certain :) ). After that I suggest we turn our attention to PF with the recent pinging coming from him.

I'm pretty sure Telle had two votes on her, pretty early in the day. I think what happened that day had potential to be better than a run-off between Telle and someone else, then have everyone move their votes off Telle after the reveal. What would be required to make it necessary?

I concur with this... then the 4th day we lynch you and are down to 1 wolf :)

A little problem with that logic is that I'm not a wolf. I was a wolf for the previous three games I played, was quite relieved to not be one this game.

This was one hour after Friday's deadline:

Sure the weekend ended up slow, but I think it would have been much better to announce this in the last 3 hours before Monday's deadline - only if Telle was actually ahead on votes.

We don't know that - you went after OlieGirl with a vengeance!

What difference does it make?

Because you should only reveal if necessary and that far in advance we don't know if it would have been necessary to reveal her role. The less info for the wolves, the better.

This is the same thing many argued to Lathum after he revealed so early.

What's the danger of revealing the Masons?

It's only a danger for the wolves as it builds a CoT so of course mccolins doesn't like it.

There is both reward and risk to it. The upside is you could have two more trusted villagers that you don't have to worry about. (Of course that doesn't matter to some people evidentally). The downside is you take away one of the only advantages that some of the villagers have over the wolves in that at least two of the villagers have a better understanding of how a vote might work, and the wolves have to guess when to try to save one of their own from a lynch. It also makes that many less people for the wolves to have to consider when looking to try to night kill a seer.

*Sigh* ok, so who do I vote for? Pass still makes my skin crawl, McCollins has a strong fang following and now Telle brings up Danny as well. I'm afraid at this point that there is too little time to get votes on Danny. So for me its Between Pass and McC...

This has hung over us since day one, lets figure it out:

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

I'd switch to Danny if it would help me. Anyway, what's been wolfish about me?

Nice try. It's a danger for the village because it gives the wolves simple targets to diminish a CoT.

Telle, you're in the thread. Any thoughts on why no one has tried to save me?