The weird thing about the Pirates moves is they didn't really get any great prospsects in return for any of their deals. I mean there's a chance that a few of those guys become big league players, but the odds are that none will be special.

I sort of wonder if they would have been better off packaging some of those guys together to a team for a top prospect instead of unloading them separately for just decent prospects.

This is another team that I can't figure out. They seem to have this "style" of player that they like and anyone that doesn't fit into the mold is out the door.

Any player with much in the way of personality doesn't last long. Any player that doesn't sing the praises of the Nose Picker General doesn't last long. Any player who has more career in front of him rather than behind him who isn't perfectly happy sitting behind an underperformer doesn't last long. The exceptions to any of those things are if Cox happens to take a liking to you, in which case as long as you stay out of the newspaper then you're fine. It also helps if you pal around with one or more of the golden children.

I could go on, but yeah, there's definitely a "type".

Hahaha, who are the golden children? McCann? Escobar?

Not too many people who are in Chipper's good graces seem to get shipped out.

Francouer isn't really an exception, as he went from being one of Larry's buddies to being on the outside (not saying that's unreasonable on Jones' part in that case though).

The Pirates didn't really have any players that could net them any great players. I don't think packaging several of them together would have helped as they would have needed to find a team with the needs to match and the willingness to part with higher end prospects. And with the way teams value prospects these days that would have been a tough proposition.

That said, I do like the pitcher they got from the Giants. They've also received enough guys in return that they can reasonably hope that a number of them will turn into decent contributors, but not necessarily stars. The stars need to come from the draft and international amateur signings.

I really do like the direction the Pirates are taking and that scares me as a Brewer fan. At least they aren't hanging on to the Jose Mesa's of the world like they used to do chasing that 70th win.

I don't think the Pirates got anyone high end, I mean, as been said before you are never going to get those guys via trade.

The rotation they have now isn't awful, and it's more than acceptable by Pirate standards. The staff ERA(4.32) is solidly in the middle of the national league. Teams 6-12 go from 4.21 to 4.36. They have several arms in the pipeline.

They have something like 5 guys to cover the 2 corner outfield positions for the next several years(Brandon Moss, Garrett Jones, Jose Tabata, Lastings Milledge, Gorkys Hernandez) Out of that group nobody is super special, but I have to think at least 2 will develop into above average major leaguers.

In the corner infield they have Andy Laroche and Pedro Alvarez at third, and some combo of Steve Pearce/Jeff Clement/Alvarez/Jones at first.

Middle infield is a bit weak, for now.

I'm not saying that this team is going to win it all in the next 5 years, but they should snap the losing streak soon.

The Pirates will be in good shape in a couple of years with a core of McCutchen, Milledge, Alvarez, LaRoche and Sanchez. I think the biggest question is the long term pitching prospects. Alderson is probably the best and most advanced but what about lesser known guys? Will Brad Lincoln ever pan out?

Since the game itself has turned into an 8-0 laugher for the Dodgers, it's kind of interesting to notice that the fans in Atlanta are pretty much treating Manny like he's playing a home game. They cheered his nice catch just now & booed when he was given an intentional walk with a base open.

For whatever reason, the guy could pretty much rape a goat on YouTube and then Twitter about it & still be popular.

Well, considering the recent Atlanta reputation for not selling out games, and Atlanta's (relative) proximity to the Dodgers' old Spring Training stomping grounds, how much of that is road fans and how much is Braves fans cheering on goat rape?

Dola,

bummer to see Jamie Shields lose his no-hitter.

Went to high school with him in the '90s. would've been neat to be able to say that a classmate wrote a chapter of baseball history.

I couldn't believe Red Sox fans were giving David Ortiz a standing ovation in Baltimore the other game. Not only did he use steroids but he lied about it and not only did he lie about he talked about how users disgrace their families. How do you cheer for someone after that? At least Manny never talked a big game about not using steroids.

As a guy who has owned & worn a Dodgers cap in Georgia for a large part of the last 35 years or so (I think I was about 7 when I got my first one, I'm on at least #4 now) I can tell you with some confidence that there's precious few Dodger fans around Atlanta or that have ever shown up for games here as visitors.

Cubs, Mets, Yankees, maybe the Cardinals, okay I'd buy that. But the Dodgers? Nah, I just don't see it. They aren't cheering everybody else, it's a Manny thing.

Seeing how they highlighted the crowd early in the game (edit: on ESPN) and just recently, there are a very good number of Dodgers fans in the crowd. Plenty of blue in the stands.

I only turned on in about the, I dunno, 6th inning maybe (it was 5-0 whenever it was), so I didn't see it.

All I can tell you in that case is that it's something I've never seen in my lifetime here. If anything, the Dodgers are traditionally one of the more disliked NL teams that come to town (along with the Phillies and Giants).

It may be a result of their record (people jumping on the wagon... or fans coming out of the woodwork).

And some decent cheering for Kemp's catch ending the Braves' threat.

As most of the world hates the Yankees, most people our age that grew up in the Southeast (and was not a Reds fan) grew up learning to hate/despise the Dodgers. Every year in the late 70s/early 80s it seemed the Dodgers would always win the West, even the few years where the Braves had an ok team in the early 80s, the Dodgers usually beat them out.

anti-Dodgers in baseball and anti-49ers in football , that will tell you who actually grew up as Atlanta fans vs who just jumped on the Braves bandwagon in the 90s or Falcons bandwagon in the .. well 1 year or 2 they were decent.

Or, Hell... were born when I was (1980) or later.

lungs kindof head the nail on the head- if you're another team, are you going to give up a can't miss prospect for any of the Pirates who just got shipped away, even if you got 3 of them? Or would you package numerous lower prospects? No team is going "I'm the major pieces of a 45-59 team away from contending for a World Series".

SI

I hadn't thought about it that way specifically, especially since I've got a history of having a diehard Dodgers fan in the family, but you're pretty much on target I think.

A friend of mine wants to get a Bannister jersey except for instead of 19, it has pi on it

SI

The M's deal with Pittsburgh for Snell & Wilson bugged me a little bit. Cedeno is OK as a 25th guy to play defense in late innings, but his bat is pathetic - no big loss there. And Clement has yet to prove he can stick at C, and while he put up big numbers in AAA last year, he hasn't yet shown his bat will play well in the bigs. He may yet turn into a decent bat at 1B, but he's clearly a disappointment for being the #3 pick in the loaded 2005 draft. He's got some potential still as a decent power hitter, but some questions as well and is unlikely to become a star.

No, the problem I have is the M's adding in 3 promising A-ball arms. Pribanic is the most promising of the bunch - he was running a ridiculous 2.74 GB/FB ratio in the Wisconsin league while also posting a decent K/BB ratio (2.08) and good BB rate (2.69/9 IP). An extreme groundballer with decent control always has a shot at a big league career. Lorin was showing the ability to miss bats (8.83 K's per 9 IP) and good control (3.48 K:BB ratio), though he is a flyballing pitcher. He's got a shot to be a decent reliever, if not a back-end starter. Adcock was working the very pitcher-unfriendly California League (A+ ball) and his numbers were nothing special, but scouts like his stuff.

Out of those 3 pitchers, it's likely the Pirates will get quality major league work out of at least one of them.

Jack Wilson is a nice defensive shortstop, but he's not exactly cheap at $8.4M for next year. Ian Snell is obviously the key to this deal - if his stint at AAA got his head back in the game and the change of scenery improves his attitude (and early indications are good on that) this may still be a fair deal for the M's, but to me, they overpaid.

Regarding Washburn to Detroit, that's a win-win deal - the Tigers get help for their rotation and the M's get some useful parts moving forward for a guy that's going to be an overpriced free agent. The M's weren't going to offer arbitration because he'd cost too much for what he brings, and even if they did and he declined he's still only going to be a Type B free agent.

Washburn is a classic example of why evaluating a pitcher by ERA is highly flawed. He's a slightly better pitcher this year than he has been in the past for the M's, but not by much. He's been helped a great deal by vastly improved OF defense behind him (.758 DER) and has been lucky with men on base (79.5% strand rate). He'll get another big money deal, and meanwhile in Luke French the M's get a guy with very similar skills who costs a fraction of Washburn and is under club control for several more years. Plus, they get a kid in Robles with a live arm - 10.3 K/9 in A+ ball this year, 11.3 K/9 in A ball last year. He's got a little work to do on his control (4.04 BB/9 over the last two seasons) but he could end up as a very useful lefty reliever with that kind of power stuff. And he's also under club control for several more years.

good luck with Snell. I can almost guarantee you'll never enjoy watching him pitch. Too many 35 pitch type innings for no goddamn reason, too much nibbling. He's like the anti Buehrle, he works fucking slow as shit and doesn't throw strikes unless he feels like it. Totally doesnt trust his stuff at all. Head case, given like way too many opportunities to pitch. Should have been demoted last year, when he shit all over the bed all season. One of the major factors that caused them to have to consider the nuclear rebuild option.

In short, he's a cunthole.

Isn't the "hole" redundant?

Well, it obviously didn't work out for him in Pittsburgh. I'm not going to worry too much about him being a headcase for now - at this point it could simply be that the situation was a bad one for him in terms of personalities in Pittsburgh. He obviously had an issue with a manager he felt didn't have his back. Whether that is true or simply sour grapes, I can't know.

I'll say this - maybe he worked slow in Pittsburgh, but he was working very fast tonight - get the ball from the catcher, check the sign and fire. No wasted time with him tonight. I didn't find him hard to watch tonight, but maybe that will change.

Yeah, he nibbles. From the sounds of it, he doesn't have a great out pitch against lefties and that's a big reason why he can ring up some high pitch counts.

Showed a decent fastball, a pretty good breaking ball and a change that he couldn't really command. In short, nothing outstanding, but not really any worse than Washburn, and with the potential to be better (and certainly cheaper).

I still think this deal may come back to bite the M's a bit if a couple of those A-ball pitchers develop, but I can see why Snell was of interest to the M's.

That's the second time this year that the Royals have been no-hit late into a game, only to have the starting pitcher implode when he does finally give up a hit and have the Royals end up winning the game.

Here you go dawgfan (and others) - the big deal the Red Sox were/supposedly will be working on again this winter.The 2nd one doesn't even really make sense to me. Assuming Gonzalez and Hernandez are in the same ballpark it seems odd that Seattle would also be trading away some of its best prospects for Boston ones. I guess they thought Buchholz could be the ace-ready guy to replace Felix in the rotation, but it still seems odd. Then again, I don't understand why Seattle was trading away players like Washburn and also trading prospects for an overpaid shortstop and Ian Snell.

but but but...i'd rather have AGon + King Felix

or if I have to pick one of the two...AGon

Weird, I was at the Saturday game, and everything Manny did got booed fairly loudly (unless he made an out, then it was a loud cheer). His noodle-armed throw to try and get the Go-ahead run was great. I was sitting right on the left field line and told him to get better steroids. It got a good laugh from the surrounding crowd, but Manny was too busy watching the big screen.

Which is in line with what I would have expected (and is why I attributed last night's obvious positive reactions to being Manny-related not Dodgers-related).

{scratches head & then shrugs}

Maybe every Dodger fan in the east just showed up for last night's ESPN game or something.

FWIW, Felix has posted higher WAR values than Gonzalez for the last 3 seasons. I'd rather have Felix.

I think I would have taken that deal with Boston. Although I would have made it 3 with 2 PTBNL.

Yeah, I don't get the 2nd option either - either it's bogus, or there's some significant part left out.

FWIW, if the M's can't get a reasonable extension worked out with Felix this off-season (and there's little incentive for Felix to cut the M's much of a deal at this point other than loyalty), I'd be OK with option A. I wouldn't like it, but if the choice is between that and possibly losing Felix with Type A compensation coming back, I'd take it as the better option.

None of those pitchers is likely to end up close to Felix's equal, but there's value in quantity of above-average guys.

Regarding why trade Washburn for prospects and prospects for Wilson and Snell, it's because the M's aren't that far away. Whereas Washburn is going to be an over-priced free agent at the end of the year, Snell is under club control for a few more seasons and is likely to be the better pitcher. Wilson, if they choose to pick up his option, gives the M's a very good defensive SS and provides some overall value, though he'd be a bit overpriced at his option salary. Essentially, the M's at worst stayed at their current win level (if not actually improving) while improving their payroll situation.

Acquiring Felix at this point is the same idea as acquiring Pedro in '97. I'd take him over AGon every day of the week. I would really hope they can do something this offseason, though I'd worry about New York getting involved.

Seattle is going to have to offer big money this off-season if they want to lock up Felix beyond 2011 - they've let things go too long to get him at a huge bargain. USSMariner (and FanGraphs) blogger Dave Cameron figures the M's will have to offer something around 4 years/$60M for Felix to seriously consider signing an extension. Seattle Times baseball beat writer Larry Stone thinks it will take more.

Yet another thing to be upset at Bill Bavasi over - he consistently low-balled his long-term offers to Felix, so that's why the M's are in this position.

It may be that Felix enjoys Seattle enough to listen to extension offers rather than insist on going into free agency in the 2011 off-season, but if not, the M's probably have no choice but to shop him. As a free agent, I would imagine that only the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and maybe Cubs would have the resources to bid for him, given that the Yankees would certainly offer him huge money and those are the only other clubs that seem likely to be able to make offers in the same ballpark.

No question if they're both healthy Hernandez is the better player - but without knowing his medical files, there are the obvious injury concerns to do with throwing so many innings at a young age. There's also the question of how they fit - Boston has Beckett/Lester, and I guess Theo is pushing hard for a 3rd ace to lock down a playoff rotation, but a lot of people feel it starts getting redundant - having 3 aces may win playoff series, but you need hitting to make the postseason.If it's more of a trade for Snell where they think they can turn him into a quality starter going forward it makes more sense. It was the Wilson part throwing me off, since he seems to be a rental and then incredibly overpriced if picked up at 8.4 million - even with the most favorable defensive metrics added in.

FanGraphs has him at 1.8 WAR so far this year, which works out to $8.3M of free market value in their formulas.

Now granted, the actual market for defensive middle infielders may be weaker than that in reality, but I don't think Wilson would be incredibly overpriced at $8.4M next year assuming he doesn't drop off significantly.

The M's under Zduriencik have clearly valued defense, and acquiring Wilson fits with this philosophy. The uptick in value at SS in going from Betancourt to Wilson is huge, even considering Wilson's weak bat, just because Wilson is a top level fielder whereas Betancourt has devolved into a horrific defender and his bat (never better than "OK") has also taken a big dive.

The emphasis on defense this year has already paid off in turning Washburn from a guy they got barely passable offers for last year into a guy that got a decent return a year later even with him being a pending free agent. Maybe they figure if Bedard returns this month and pitches a few good games into the 6th inning and beyond they can get some value for him too, and having Wilson behind him only helps that cause.

As for next year, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have Wilson at $8.4M - not the best situation, but not a crippler like Silva's $12M.

Which is a big depature from his drafting philosophy with the Brewers. At least it shows he's flexible in his philosophies.

Fuck you, Bengie Molina.

Plus the 8.4 is only for one year - do they have someone coming up behind him they're hoping to be ready for 2011? I know the Mariners have been super-aggressive with their best prospects like Felix and Triunfel. Also, are they going for/have a lot of GB pitchers? You could see how Justin Masterson in particular was hurt by how badly the left side of the RS defense played this year until Lowrie (an average defender, but at least consistent) came back.Isn't Miller Park much smaller than Safeco? Plus it could just be the moneyball-esque philosophy - he thought people were undervaluing power, and with the increased testing for steroids lowering numbers he may have been right. He definitely seems like a good GM so far, although it doesn't take much after his predecessor.

Unfortunately, no. They used to have a plethora of SS candidates a few years ago (Betancourt, Adam Jones before switching to CF, Asdrubal Cabrera) but currently the system is pretty slim in terms of true SS. Triunfel has been playing SS, but it's expected he'll probably end up at 2B or 3B on the Majors.

Well, Felix is a big-time groundballer. After that, not so much at the moment. Snell, Rowland-Smith, Morrow, Vargas, French & Olson are all flyballers. Bedard is closer to neutral, but he's unlikely to return. Silva used to be a groundballer, but his career looks over.

They've got a stud groundballer prospect in the minors in Philippe Aumont, but they converted him to the bullpen this year.

Given the dimensions of Safeco and the outfield defense with Guitierrez, Ichiro and Langerhans/Saunders, going for flyball pitchers isn't a bad strategy, even if in general groundballers are preferable.

A's from 2008 compared to now:

*Current A's Player, Traded, Released or not re-signed

Pitchers

Joe Blanton
Andrew Brown
Santiago Casilla
Lenny DiNardo
Justin Duchscherer (hasn't pitched yet this season and may not)
Alan Embree
Dana Eveland (currently in the minors)
Keith Foulke
Rich Harden
Fernando Hernandez (Rule V pick returned to CWS)
Huston Street

Catchers

Rob Bowen
Kurt Suzuki

Infielders

Daric Barton (currently in the minors)
Bobby Crosby
Mark Ellis
Jack Hannahan
Dan Johnson
Donnie Murphy
Mike Sweeney

Outfielders

Emil Brown
Travis Buck (currently in the minors)
Chris Denorfia (currently in the minors)
Ryan Sweeney
Jack Cust

Of the 11 players still in the organization, 4 are currently in the minors and one has been on the DL since the season started. That leaves six guys from the Opening Day Roster a year ago that are still playing for the A's. Of those 6 players, one is a middle reliever, Casilla, and the other is now a bench player, Crosby. That leaves 4 regular players from last season...Suzuki, Ellis, Sweeney, and Cust. And, taking it one step further, Suzuki and Sweeney had 300 career at bats between the two of them before last season.

Oh, some of you might be wondering where the so-called "Franchise Player" is on the list. Well, Eric Chavez started both last season and this season on the DL and therefore isn't listed on either Active Roster.

Los Angeles Dodgers

Starters

Brad Penny
Chad Billingsley
Derek Lowe
Hiroki Kuroda
Estaban Loiza

Bullpen
Jonathan Broxton
Hong Chi Kuo
Takashi Saito
Joe Beimel
Ronnie Troncoso
Scott Proctor

Starter Lineup
Russel Martin
James Loney
Jeff Kent
Rafael Furcal
Blake Dewitt
Andre Ethier
Andruw Jones
Matt Kemp

Bench
Mark Sweeney
Delwyn Young
Chin Lung Hu
Juan Pierre
Gary Bennett
Angel Chavez

Overall, a lot continuity, with two key starting pitchers, three key bullpen members and 6/8 of the starting lineup still on the team.

Pitchers (11)
John Bale
Brian Bannister
Zack Greinke
Ron Mahay
Joakim Soria
Gil Meche (DL)
Yasuhiko Yabuta (AAA Omaha)
Jimmy Gobble (released, in White Sox org)
Brett Tomko (released, recently released by Yankees)
Leo Nunez
Ramon Ramirez


Catchers (3)
Miguel Olivo (suspended on Opening Day 2008 so some sites may not list him)
John Buck
Matt Tupman (released, in DBacks org)

Infielders (7)
Billy Butler
Alberto Callaspo
Alex Gordon
Tony Pena Jr. (DFA'd to AAA Omaha)
Mark Grudzielanek (free agent, in Twins org)
Esteban German (released, in Rangers org)
Ross Gload

Outfielders (4)
David DeJesus
Jose Guillen
Mark Teahen
Joey Gathright (non-tendered, in Orioles org)

So, 14 still on the team (or DL) and another 2 still in the org. The funniest (in a sad clown sort of way) thing is that none of those released/free agent guys are in the majors ("if you couldn't cut it here, you don't have a job anywhere on a MLB roster").

SI

The pirates are getting no hit thru 6

Just for jinx sake, Arizona's Yusmeiro Petit is working on a no-no (against the Pirates, if that counts) through 6 2/3.

The pirates are getting no hit thru 7

Jose Contreras lost all hell of control in the 3rd inning and got yanked.

Through the first commercial (Southwest.com), Pirates are getting no hit.

Was the Upton outfield error close? Suprised the scorer at home wouldn't have given Cedano a double

Luis Castillo, one of two regular Mets that hasn't gotten hurt all year, and who is finally putting together a good season since joining the team...falls down the steps of the dugout after an at bat and leaves the game. Unreal.

Petit has to be shocked he is pitching a NO HITTER

It was a liner/floater to the warning track that he got under fairly easily, got himself well positioned, and then closed his glove too early. It could have been a hit without much beef, since he ran a fair distance to get under it, but he was definitely in position to make it. I would have called it an error, too.

Doh!

Wish they had kept him in.

Scotty Pods loves you.

Not as much as Nix. That guy doesn't seem to do crap except when he plays us. At least Posednik does stuff when other teams are in town.

The White Sox put up the phrase "The Catch" on the wall where Wise caught the ball to preserve the perfect game. Funny how baseball works, career journeyman will now always be remembered (at least until they tear the stadium down)

I apologize if this has been mentioned but as of now Pedro Martinez is the only pitcher in major league history to win over 200 games and lose less than 100. He is at 214-99 I think. He should stay retired just for that reason, competitive streak be damned! :-)

Yeah that was a frustrating way to lose a game. As well as the Angels are playing, I don't see them going anywhere in the Playoffs. 2 starters and 2 relievers away from being a team that really threatens, which is a shame because the offense is probably never going to click as well as they are right now.

When fricking Kevin Jepsen is your go to guy with a tie ballgame in the 8th, you know your bullpen is really horrific. I'm amazed they couldn't pick up somebody to fill the 7th and 8th. At least we have some starters who might turn it around (Saunders, Santana). The bullpen is just running on fumes though and there were some cheap deals out there for veteran MR. Bit of a strange decision from Reagins to stand pat with such a great offense and such a glaring need.

Wow, that's pretty cool.

ls- great game for the Nats last night :)

Was watching MLBN for most of last night and there were a lot of good games. There was Petit's 7 inning no-hitter try, the seesaw Cards-Mets game, Rays-Red Sox extra innings, the White Sox walkoff, and, yeah, the Nats-Fish 6 runs in the 8th capped by Adam Dunn's homer for the win.

SI

J.A. Happ pitches a real beaut for the mini-slumping Phils: 9.0ip 4h 0r 2bb 10k

Please, no bullpen for this young man!

He should clearly stay retired because pitching extra seasons punishes you in some people's eyes, and everything he's done up to this point will be lessened as his ERA+ continues to drop.

I'll tell you what, if Moyer was such the "wiley veteran" that everyone always says he is, he would be the bigger man, and make this decision easier on the Phillies, and step down.

There's absolutely no way in hell, that when you have a chance to win another WS, you let things such as letting the guy pitch just because he has 250+ wins under his belt. The only thing that I care about at this time is how many wins can a guy get me from here on out.

Look Jamie, you've had a great career, you've accomplished a ton, battled back from the abyss of baseball several times, but it's time to go. Can't you see a little of yourself in the young lefthander that really deserves your spot?

This is the rotation I'd like to see for the rest of the season.

Hamels
Lee
Blanton
Happ
Martinez

Moyer has done an ok job this year.
Hot and cold, time to step aside.
It's either bullpen, waivers, or the least likely, traded.
Announcing his retirement would be the best option.

I'm glad the Phillies didn't give Happ up to BlueJays for Doc.

Prince Fielder needs his ass kicked. The Brewers are a bunch of babies.

I think the Phillies should continue to pitch Moyer the rest of the season. Would be ashame to disgrace such a great pitcher in his final years! :)

I read about it, saw video of him getting hit, but no video of after the final out.

haha

Can I add to that list whoever that prick was on the Cards who threw at David Wright's head today?

Excellent two-game sweep by the Rays over the Red Sox.

I agree. When he's on he's good but when he isn't he gets pounded. There is no middle ground. He seems to do well against Florida so he can start only against them.

Looking at his numbers, it seems like he just can't pitch at home.

2009 Home - 60 IP, ERA 7.16
2009 Away - 58 IP, ERA 3.88
2008 Home - 91 IP, ERA 4.62
2008 Away - 104 IP, ERA 2.92

Indeed! It's almost criminal that the Yanks, Red Sox, and Rays are the same division. Though it should make for a fun August and September.

He would've had it kicked if he had succeeded in going 1-on-25 last night. Heh.


I dunno what happened after the final out, but there wouldn't have been cameras in the corridor between the clubhouses.

If getting hit on the thigh triggered that kind of a tantrum (I was gonna call it an overreaction, but an overreaction happens on the field, not fifteen minutes later in the clubhouses), I wonder how he would've reacted if Mota had hit him where Manny got plunked. Probably would've whipped out an Uzi and started gunning people down.

I heard Pujols and Ludwig were hit by pitches, but I didn't know someone from the Cardinals threw at David Wright's head. That wouldn't even sit well with LaRussa.

Definitely. Big Yanks/Sox series coming up over the weekend. It will really impact the race.

Ludwick was hit in the 4th on a 2-2 pitch, and Pujols in the 5th on a pitch that only hit him because of his enormous forearms dropping down as he tried to swing. Thompson, meanwhile, threw one directly at Wright's ear, nothing that rose or rode in, that he got out of the way of by some miracle.

It's bad enough when guys throw at other players' heads, but nothing pisses me off more than when the ones doing it are relievers/AL pitchers/guys who will never have to step into the box and face the consequences. It's such a chicken shit move.

Nobody saw that coming :rolleyes: At least Varitek finally threw out a Ray, although I'm not sure Carlos Pena attempting to steal isn't more embarrassing. Hopefully we can continue some of our success against the Yankees now, although the pitching matchup game 1 doesn't look too good.Was there something in the past between Fielder and Mota? ESPN specifically mentioned them being teammates last year.

Why does it feel like August 2006 all of a sudden? :(

I think Javy Lopez is still available.

So anytime a pitcher nicks your best player coming inside retaliation is necessary?

Then they complained about Pierre getting hitting by a fucking RJ Swindle slider. RJ Swindle's breaking balls range from 55-65 MPH.

Prince definitely went overboard but this culture of retaliation of just fucking ridiculous. Maybe they should shrink the strike zone so inside pitches are just balls from now on.

Hey-I'm still peeved after they retaliated 2 months later and hit Karstens. That was just the Brewers being a bunch of bitchy little girls. I'm going to be hella pissed if Kendall(fuck that wanna be tough guy fuck) or Braun don't go down the next time the Brewers visit Pittsburgh.

So when does the cycle end? Karstens started it by beaning Braun. Chris Smith retaliated by hitting Karstens (which I probably agreed with at the time but upon further reflection feel it was stupid). So now the Pirates have to retaliate because of the retaliation?

See how stupid this looks? Play the god damned game and leave the macho bullshit out of it. This isn't the NFL.

Dola

Go ahead and hit Kendall, you'll be doing the Brewers a favor by getting the second pitcher hitting in their lineup on base.

Stolen from a different boardWe do have Billy Traber in the bullpen though.... At least they re-called Josh Reddick, although it appears they're starting Youk in LF and Lowell at 3B because he won't get to the park on time.

In one form or another, retaliation has been around baseball longer than most of our posters have been alive. It's a far more standing part of the game than whining about it, which seems to be a relatively new phenomenon.

ON BASEBALL; Retaliation Was Once the Rule - New York Times

It's great that someone on another messageboard feels that way. It's obviously not the same, I don't remember saying it was. It certainly has the same feel, though.

I'm no fan of purposely hitting players because of the chances of causing serious injury. Just because it's a "tradition" doesn't make it right.

That said, in this particular case Fielder is being a real pussy. Mota clearly was throwing at Fielder, but he was also pretty clearly aiming low (at his amply-sized ass), where the chances of serious injury are much smaller.

I totally get if batters are pissed when they think an opposing pitcher is purposely throwing at them, but what Fielder did would only be understandable if Mota had gone for his head.

Man, Smoltz and Penny are really bad.

It's amazing to think that it was pretty recently that the Red Sox starting pitching was considered a strength.

It's kind of sad to see Smoltz go out like this. 8.32 ERA in 8 starts. How much longer can they keep sending him out there? Not that there's much to replace him with.

This explains everything!!!!!

Blue Jays GM Confirms There Never Really Was A 'Roy Halladay' | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Yeah Pedroia, you're down 13-4 and the pitcher meant to hit you. I hate the Yanks, but the Sox and their fans are such douches

There needs to be a word that's the opposite of "frontrunner".

When will Wakefield be back for the Red Sox, that could be the end of Smoltz.

Frank Wren with a rare good move lowballing Smoltz this winter.

But before giving the guy too much praise it's worth noting that Wren wanted Smoltz, Mike Hampton, and Griffey Jr., thankfully they all turned the Braves down :D

Not a word, but the phrase "Detroit Lions fan" comes to mind.

Nope, but Ramirez has been hit 3 times in the last 2 weeks or so, and there was an issue late last year with Ramirez getting hit and his pitchers not "protecting" him.

I don't think the message was aimed at the Brewers directly as much as at the league at-large, and in smaller part, from the Dodger pitchers to Manny.