I'm thinking he'll find a way to delay the trial/verdicts after election. Rallying cry for his troops.

I think it's 99% that he'll try a blanket pardon for himself if he gets elected. Then the fun really begins.

That would require him to be elected, and if that happens, him pardoning himself is the least of our worries...

Have you met the Bernie Bros? And don't get me started on the far left, conspiracy minded, health focused, q-adjacent dems.

I'd actually be quite interested in getting you started on them. It would be a nice diversion from the usual topics :).


Yup. The American people have been on record for decades as not thinking being guilty of felonies should prevent somebody from being President. But if they elect Trump after everything he's said and done, it'll just be a worse version of the T-shirt that went around after he was elected the first time: 'Donald Trump is President. Who gives a $@*&'. I know it definitely changed my perspective on what is possible in the United States, and not in a good way.

Can't figure out why people aren't excited to vote for the dementia riddled 80 year old who has been on the wrong side of every major issue over the past 4 decades.

Blame everyone but the people who wanted Biden.

Dementia riddled is such horseshit. He's old, but there's no indication that he isn't mentally sharp.

The fact they're terrified to have him interviewed or give press conferences is a pretty good indication. He's 80 years old. No one is mentally sharp at that age. Especially someone who was never known for his mental sharpness when he was young.

I just think these excuses are lame. The party chose to strap their hopes and dreams to him. Don't blame others if he hasn't inspired enough people to vote for him in 2024. Only so many times you can run on "well the other guy is worse".

The party should have had some younger candidates lined up in 2024. Especially if their plan was to have Biden do nothing for 4 years.

We wouldn't be in this situation if the Bernie Bros could have pulled their collective heads out of their asses long enough to realize that 2016 was all about the Supreme Court and not Hillary. But they weren't smart enough to see that.

Hillary lost because she is one of the most unlikable politicians in the country that ran one of the dumbest campaigns in history. Again, blaming everyone but the shitty politicians these parties desperately wanted as their candidate.

Had nothing to do with that 20+ year attack from the right on her. Nothing at all. I didn't like her, don't like Biden, but you look at the end game, and if you're clutching your pearls because you are making a political point, in spite of yourself, you're losing and you're whining about the party, when the voters made the choices.

I've lost track. How many idictments is that

Trifecta aka 3

If the election is so important as you and others say, why run someone who is such a liability? Why run someone who has a 20+ year record of negative attacks against her? Why spend the past few decades fighting harder against progressives in your own party than Republicans (and expecting those progressives to vote for you)?

It's the same shit with Biden in 2024. We're going to hear about how this election is for the future of our democracy but the party just couldn't be bothered to run a better candidate for this supposedly important race.

If the party doesn't give a shit, why should voters?

Reading that indictment, I have to assume co-conspirator 4 is going to be arrested. Has anyone broke down which person is which co-conspirator?

I thought three was a turkey

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Trum...y?id=101919066

So this trial is in DC with a judge not appointed by Trump. In fact, a judge who has been quite harsh on the J6 defendants and gone above prosecution sentencing requests. DC juries have also convicted every single person that took it to trial. I have to admit that I think there is a possibility this man goes to prison (or more likely house arrest).

In fact, Biden's best campaign strategy might be that voting him in again means you get to see Trump go to prison. I know people will complain about delays, but that might be the motivation to surpass even turnout in 2020.

I don't think there are that many people who care. Last poll I saw (July 6, Politico) has only a third of independents who think Trump should be indicted if he is convicted. That may have changed some with additional charges since then, but a similar number said a conviction would have no impact on their decision of whether to support his candidacy, and amusingly similar numbers of Republicans and Democrats said the same - presumably because they've already decided and wouldn't be moved by anything.

Still, I don't think this an issue that a massive amount of people care about. Enough to make a difference in the election? Sure, and I definitely hope so. But not a 'I wasn't going to vote, but I will to see him rot in jail' surge.

What does this mean? Isn't it normally someone gets indicted first, then trial, and then convicted?

I assume he meant imprisoned

Ah. Thanks.

The problem I see, is that it's all culture war. Both sides have determined spotlighting wedge issues works better than actually governing, it keeps them in power and the donation money flowing. Actually governing/legislating leads to divisiveness and openings for losing ones job.

Link below, shows how many are very wealthy and thus drive all issues towards the rich while blockading anything that would support the common or poor person.

https://rollcall.com/2018/03/02/ever...-in-one-chart/

Average age of members of congress is 58, it's an old man's game because power is held by the old and rich.

Age of Members of 118th Congress (& Averages) | FiscalNote.

New blood is never going to rise to the top, only the divisive who spout shit everyday get the spotlight. The quiet ones who actually govern/legislate will quickly be dropped for the hot take of the minute assholes.

Now the Republicans want to disrupt/destroy local politics and then their stranglehold will be complete.

Good times for everyone!

Yup, it'll be a cluster if Trump gets re-elected.

Could Donald Trump serve as president if convicted? | CNN Politics

Yes , which is why I see the SC totally allowing him or another Republican president to pardon him in the end. Best case is under Trump we have an Autocracy like Turkey/ Hungary and worse case the beginning of the Fourth Reich.

I agree the D party needs to get younger and we need to have more parties that are actually relevant. I think 4 parties and two can join to create a coalition type governing model. But, if we have people voting 3rd party or staying home because they aren’t getting what they want that is a bad decision. I am a white hetero former US veteran male corporate VP they aren’t coming for me the day Trump declares himself King. I am amazed at the people who have every reason to stop another Trump presidency yet are not on board to vote against him.

Republican friends always say and they are right that the Rs can always count on the Dems breaking up and fighting against each other. They do join under the one nominee it seems better than us. Make no mistake the 2016 election never ended.

Well, they could impeach him and remove him from office....

Wait a second.. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :banghead:

Jack Smith landed the perfect judge for this. She wasn't appointed by Trump, she's been very tough on J6 defendents, but hasn't directed any attacks at Trump during sentencing.

This is also the judge that ruled against Trump when the House was trying to access his white house records as part of the J6 hearings by basically saying "a president is not king and you are no longer president."

Pence is not having it:

Pence: Let’s be clear on this point. It wasn't that they asked for a pause. The president specifically asked me and his gaggle of crackpot lawyers asked me to literally reject votes which would have resulted in the issue of being turned over to the house of representatives pic.twitter.com/QTyw99l8sc

— Acyn (@Acyn) August 2, 2023

I did not have Mike Pence as the Republican who was going to grow balls on this issue.

That's a beautiful quote "gaggle of crackpot lawyers".

I just read the other day that he is in danger of not even making the debate stage. He may be in "ah well, fuck it" territory like Chris Christie.

Yes , which is why I see the SC totally allowing him or another Republican president to pardon him in the end. Best case is under Trump we have an Autocracy like Turkey/ Hungary. Worse case the beginning of the fourth Reich.

Would have been nice if he did that on January 6th. Instead he supported the guy for years until it became socially acceptable for him to not.

Finally he is being held accountable for his actions on Jan 6

yeah. Not really.

If anything this will help him and his rubes are footing the bill.

Accountability will only come in the form of an actual conviction and jail time.

Correct me I'm wrong though Lathum-you did not think that even this day would happen right? We are now in the process to that accountability which we could not say until today

Not sure I ever said he won't be indicted, but I definitely said he will never see a jail cell and I stand by this. He is already receiving insanely preferential treatment. Anyone else, literally anyone, who possessed even ONE of the documents he had, let alone 100s, would be locked up in a cell pending trial as a national security risk.

I was telling my wife yesterday that its absolutely insane that a former President was just indicted for a plot to overturn an election and it doesn't feel like it's a big deal.

Where we are in politics vs pre Trump is crazy and happened so fast.

Indictment number 4 officially coming next week:
The main street in front of Fulton County courthouse to shut down next week – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta

Trumps lawyer just admitted on Fox tv to his client committing the crime he is being charged with.

You're absolutely right, and so is albionmoonlight's explanation. Wow was that an impressive mis-statement on my part :lol:

I had to try and overthrow the government because they're offering a tax rebate on which type of stove I buy.

John Eastman, Co-Conspirator 2 in this week's Trump indictment and architect of the fake elector strategy, blames trans women in public locker rooms and Drag Queen Story Hour for making him try to steal an election https://t.co/jQeSQa5Dkx

— Gillian Branstetter (@GBBranstetter) August 4, 2023

There's a weird disconnect. If he were to have said this in a private meeting that was secretly recorded, it would be a scandal.

But because he's proud of it, we treat it as a normal mainstream political position.

There's this odd convergence of the old conservative academic thought process that has merged with fantastical/religious "end of times" fringe political cosplay that is now threatening to become a legitimate mainstream position that it's time to reclaim the country or tear it all down. Scary shit.

Threatens? Eastman has gone from looney bin to rising star on the right.

I can't tell if their brains are just mush now and they're buying into whatever shit Grandmas are screaming about on Facebook. Or if they are just fascists who are using some culture war issues as an excuse to implement authoritarian rule.

who else here wants to be indicted

We knew he wouldn't shut up:


https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/s...44636175593474


Special Counsel already on it

He should be behind bars.

That is the irony in all this. his supporters claim he is being targeted when in reality he is getting special treatment literally no one else on the planet would receive.

he's all out crying like tantrum crying

So the judge wants a reply/meeting by Monday, what do you think Trump's lawyers do? Yep delay, want until the 10th to answer and have oral arguments.

DOJ acts quickly to get the judge to not allow the delay and she agrees. Trump has now moved on to attack potential witness Mike Pence, who finally showed some balls in saying more about what Trump wanted him to do on Jan 6. And a potential Georgia indictment this week too. Summer is getting HOT!


EDIT: https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...61467507613701

Judge won't do shit. Maybe a lecture he will ignore. Different justice systems for different people.

Exactly. Trump has done more than enough to justify locking him up. He will never be held accountable.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Any attorneys here want to wade in on the Judge Cannon ruling today? I'm seeing analysis that's all over the place.

Some caveats:

1. I think Trump is a horrible human being and a cancer on this country

2. I am a defense lawyer

Both of which color my perspective, but #2 more than #1.

Grand Juries are powerful things. They allow the government to collect evidence. They can subpoena testimony under oath. In a system that prides itself on open access to the justice system, they are an exception that is allowed to operate almost entirely in secret.

And we have decided that that secrecy is worth it for a few reasons. First, it lets the government build cases and investigate without interference. Second, if it turns out that someone was being investigated and turns out not to have done anything wrong, then the secrecy was good to protect their reputation; ideally, no one ever even knows they were a target. Third, if the grand jury does indict you, then you will get an open and public trial with lots and lots of procedural protections before you are found guilty, so that cures any problems caused by the grand jury secrecy.

Because grand juries are such a powerful tool, we do not allow prosecutors to continue to use them in a case once they issue an indictment. The indictment starts the public part of the case, and any investigation, evidence gathering, etc. needs to happen subject to the normal statutory and constitutional disclosure rules. In general, you need to finish with the grand jury and then indict. You don't indict and then keep using it.

There are exceptions to that rule, and I am honestly not completely sure what they are. And those exceptions are what is at play here.

Here, it looks like the United States started the investigation in DC with a DC grand jury. Then realized that the proper venue was Florida, so it got a grand jury down there. But it looks like it might have kept one or both grand juries going post-indictment, and that is what Judge Cannon is asking about.

It may be that due to the complexity of the case and alleged ongoing attempts to destroy evidence by the defense, the continued use of the grand jury(ies) was legitimate and falls into a well-established exception to the general rule (indeed, it would shock me if DOJ was not being super careful about crossing Ts and dotting Is here).

But on the surface, it raises questions. So the judge is asking those questions. She hasn't ruled on anything yet. She is asking for more information about something that (IMO rightly) raises questions and suspicions.

So, all that said, I say good for her. We WANT judges to hold the government's feet to the fire. We don't want the government taking shortcuts that end up violating rights. And judges are our first line of defense to make sure they don't.

Interesting, thanks for posting.


I'd say you'd get 98% or thereabouts support for that proposition. I would definitely be in favor of it.

Thanks for the clarification. I was also confused. Right wing twitter of course has already called for his disbarment and prosecution over this. Have to keep the outrage machine fed.

So the Special Counsel had a warrant to aceess Trump's Twitter account since Jan, with the stipulation that they could not tell Trump about it. Twitter resisted got fined and eventually gave in:


https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/stat...13590149263360

..Trump wants a SCIF room built for him in Mar-a-Lago. I can't even.

The game is to get the judge to approve more and more until the government feels like it has no choice but to drop the case. And with this judge it just might work.

Except the counter move is to walk over to the 11th circuit and watch her get smacked down again so.

CNN is reporting that they also tipped Trump off before turning the data over so he probably had time to delete some things.

I agree with pursuing this, get it out in the open, get it in the books. Doubt it's going to impact Trump much politically (what's one more indictment) but it'd be good if some of his non-Teflon accomplices are caught in the dragnet and paid a price.

Geoff Duncan: Former Georgia lieutenant governor to testify before Fulton County grand jury in 2020 election probe Tuesday | CNN Politics

Really don't know how guilty they are but ... congratulations Misty & Cathy, you win the prize for being the low persons on the non-teflon totem pole that no one will care much about.

Wonder if they've cut a deal or stubbornly continue to believe they did the right thing.

Exclusive: Georgia prosecutors have messages showing Trump's team is behind voting system breach | CNN Politics

You'd think there would be consequences for going online and telling a person that is scheduled to testify against you to not testify, but here we are. Wlwere watching a former President make baseless accusations against judges and trying to influence people testifying, but not suffering consequences.

According to a worker's comp attorney in GA it's a common strategy to say worker's comp covers all workplace injuries so there is o additional liability.

Wrong thread I believe, but that is absolutely the case. Employers can be super negligent, and Worker's Comp caps out what employee's can get. OSHA can nail them with a fine, but the employee just has to take what the WC table will allow.

Heads up:


The indictments might come down in GA today-they are moving thru the last Grand Jury witnesses, and the Head Judge has said they will go past the usual closing time of 5pm if the DA signals she wants to. Tomorrow if not today then.

good luck with that - those things are *expensive*

The good news is that he's an especially generous billionaire who is only intereseted in the truth.

We're way past the point of wondering whether Trump is worse than Nixon and I'm now trying to determine if there's anyone in the modern era who has committed as many crimes as Trump with so little consequences. I can come up with names, but they're mostly dictators, which probably says something.

But I'm sure his followers would love to pay for it

I think the Fulton indictment might come any minute.

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They are voting right now

And in a pre-arranged interview winning the "Best Timing" award, Rachel Maddow is about to interview Hilary Clinton at 9 pm

10 indictments. RICO likely the big one.

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It might be another three hours before we see the indictments. No indication of the number of defendants. We really don't know if Trump is a defendant on all ten charges.

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Ho Hum

Nothing will happen and Trump will rake in millions in small dollar donations and see a spike in the polls.

Like it or not, at some point, one we have likely passed, non maga people are going to start believing this is Biden trying to jail his opponent.

Yes I see democrat free media ( Trump calls them main stream media) news anchors like Maddox and CNN doing victory laps and I have PTSD from 2016. I am really concerned we wake on the day after the election in November 2024 and Trump has won Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and he is president again. Then God help us all.

Someone tweeted that Trump is now under indictment in every NL East city except Philly.

He is getting preferential treatment but that DC indictment seems like trouble any way you look at it.

I think Georgia requires a mugshot so we might actually get one.

The jury pool there will easily be the most problematic, but doubtful it goes to trial prior to the election.

Happy indictment day! It's kinda like Groundhog day, but with less Groundhogs, and more Orange Man Indictments.

https://twitter.com/bluestein/status...19740847411201


Georgia's Lt Governor.

God DAMN.

that bit that was elipsis'd out? "Even worse than Herschel Walker"

Dola:

19 people indicted, Trump is facing 13 Felony Charges including RICO (hey, maybe they can seize Mar-a-Lago under RICO? Kidding!)



The Indictment starts with:

INTRODUCTION

Defendant Donald John Trump lost the United States presidential election held on November 3, 2020. One oft he states he lost was Georgia. Trump and the other Defendants charged in this Indictment refused to accept that Trump lost, and they knowingly and willfully joined a conspiracy to unlawfully change the outcome of the election in favor of Trump. That conspiracy contained a common plan and purpose to commit two or more acts of racketeering activity in Fulton County, Georgia, elsewhere in the State of Georgia, and in other states.

Gonna be tough when he endorses Trump for the general.

Ken White (Popehat) with the Chumbawumba reference:

He gets a New York charge, he gets a Florida charge
He gets a DC charge, he gets a Georgia charge
He enters the pleas that remind him of the good times
He enters the pleas that remind him of the better times

and for once, he has to say "Yes, it's RICO"

https://youtu.be/aiVkyD1yzJg

Misty and Cathy are listed. They were #17 and #19.

Is it in order of severity of charges? Sidney Powell is #16 and I'd thought she would be up there with Guiliani.

Oh well, I'm sure someone will translate it into layman terms tomorrow.

Giuliani and Trump each have the most felony count charges (13)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thank you

This needs to be highlighted.

Rudy Giuliani, Who Pioneered Use of RICO, Indicted on RICO Charges

Life comes at you fast.

Geoff Duncan won't. He isn't that guy. He said after the 2020 election that he was glad Trump lost. He also refused to vote for Hershel Walker. His whole mission is to clean out Trump completely from the GOP.

Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

Why the Georgia case is different than any of the others is that he can't get a pardon in Georgia. Georgia pardons can only come 5 years after any sentence is served, and is decided by a board not the governor. Trump really needs to move this case to the Federal level, and it might be he will have more success doing that in this case than the NY case.

RICO Suave

I get that it was not in his nature to do this, but if he had just conceded the election and not stolen a bunch of classified documents, he'd currently be living the life of luxury and adoration as an ex-president that he's spent his whole life chasing.