I guess I'm missing something. None of that makes any sense to me. Because she speaks English?

Yet you find it so easy to put yourself in the shoes of a police officer - to the extent that it apparently should have been easy to "weed out" that Oakland cop before that incident. (and 4 cops murders is "what happens" when they didn't).

The thugs in Oakland that protested violently and celebrated the murders of other human beings is barbaric, sub-human, and their behaviors lead to more hate and violence. The Oakland cop deserves blame in that equation too, of course (though we'll never know what was going through his head). But the other murdered officers don't.

I don't feel I need to give them a free pass just because they were emotional.

Then I guess that's really the only point on which we disagree. I think you should be able to expect receiving no punishment in Moats' situation, my situation, and your situation. I think it would be disgusting to be issued a traffic ticket in those instances, regardless of the letter of the law.

And I'm saying that policing themselves over the years may have stopped a situation like this from occuring. The city has had a people vs cops element for a long time and that didn't happen by accident. Those people view the cops as enemies, and when you see them executing people, it's easy to see why.

How? What would you have done that would guarantee a police force with no "bad seeds?"

We don't know what was going through that Oakland officer's head, if anything. With officers, we want to assume the worst, because it empowers us over the authority that we resent so much.

Same with this officer. Maybe he just made a mistake. He probably feels like shit. Let's just assume that he's a racist though, with no evidence to support that. That satisifies that inner hatred of authority also.

Maybe a cop doesn't think he can execute someone if he knows that he'll be held accountable by his fellow officers.

Wasn't he arrested? Charged with murder? Resigned before charges were even filed? I'm so confused.

Is your theory, honestly, that he conciously killed that guy, thinking that he would get away with it because he was a police officer?

I guess that's theoretically possible, if he was mentally disabled, but that's hardly the most reasonable explanation. It's definitely the explanation that would allow people to feel justified destroying property though, so I can understand why it would be so appealing.

Officers really don't want to kill people. Even if it's justified, it puts their career at tremendous risk. Nobody does that just for kicks.


What about the officer in this case? Do you think he just wanted to hassle black people?

And back to the first question - what exactly does a police department do to 100% ensure everyone feels that if they execute someone, they'll be held accountable? And further than that, how do you get rid of all bad seeds? You've said that officer murders are "what happens" when you don't weed out bad seeds - I'm sure they would love to know how to do that (beyond firing)

Would that have happened if a couple cell phone videos didn't make it on the internet? The cops did scamper around illegally confiscating cell phones after the shooting. I'm sure they weren't doing that for "their investigation".

I do wonder if the Oakland cops that got murdered by that monster this week were somewhat hesitant of being too aggressive due to the prior incident. Sucky situation when a guy chooses to shoot 4. At least they killed the bastard before he could leave any more kids fatherless.

I said this in the other thread but doctors screw up and kill thousands of people a year, and there's never criminal charges.

When an officer screws up, it's front page news - even when the issue is just attitude. When it's a mistake that takes someone's life, it's burn-down-the-city-time.

I don't know his explanation for killing the guy. I do know that it isn't the first time a cop has abused his power and killed or beaten someone, and it won't be the last. This isn't unchartered territory in this country. My guess is any number of reasons for it, just as there are any number of reasons people kill each other.

I do believe there is an element to these officers that feel they can get away with anything. You can tell from the Moats' video that he feels he has the power to "screw him over" and arrest him for a minor traffic violation. I can't imagine that this is taught in the academy, so I would have to assume that he felt no one would really find out (or care). His mistake was that Moats' was an athlete known in the area and had a rather compelling story that the media ate up. I'd imagine this kind of stuff goes on all the time with nothing being done. I doubt this is the first time this officer has gone on a power trip.

As for what the police department can do in the future, I'd say stop covering shit up. The officers in the BART shooting went around and illegally confiscated cell phones for a reason. Act upon complaints properly and hold fair investigations. In Chicago 17 of the 10,000 complaints ended in disciplinary action. They had some officers with over 100 complaints for police brutality and did nothing. Show the public that you are serious about eliminating the bad seeds in your department and they will give more leeway when bad things do happen.

I started to say you really can't be that naive ... but I imagine you can.

Huge difference in a doctor making a human error during a surgery and an officer going out of his way to hurt someone for his own pleasure. If a doctor is criminally negligent, they are charged. They are also open to massive civil lawsuits for their mistakes.

Doctors and hospitals make the front page all the time too. I can remember a recent case of a lady dying in a waiting room that made national headlines.

Woman dies in hospital waiting room - 7/02/08 - New York News and Tri-State News - 7online.com

That's kind of my point, when police screw up, we assume it's for their "own pleasure", because that makes us feel big and defiant against authority.

A surely, sometimes cops do that, and if that can be proven, the consquences should be harsh. But it's assumed that's it's pleasure EVERY time, and that's just not even logical.

There's assumptions that the officer in this case was on a power trip, or racist, and basically doing this for fun. Without a pattern of conduct, maybe we should assume that he screwed up?

That's what I've been saying. The bad cops put the seed of doubt into the minds of people when good cops have accidents.

In Chicago, there is no doubt incidents that are complete accidents made by the police. But people are skeptical here because of the storied history of brutality, lies, and coverups.

English Major? Emily Dickson and those of her day took their social cues from Europe. I believe (and correct if I am wrong) that America started to do her own thing a little later with Henry James. (Daisy Miller not him per se)

I'd be cool with never letting Motes drive when his mother in law is dying as he clearly can't handle it just as long as the officer is never put in a position where he has to rapidly access situations and react accordingly.

I don't think they should fire him but I'd put him on something other than street patrol.

Oh, and I don't necessarily think that the officer is a bad person or an asshole. I just think he's a bad fit at his current job.

How do you propose we know when it's burn-down-the-city-time if we stop using this as a rally point?

And of course, routine traffic stops that end up with multiple cops dead put the seed of doubt into the minds of cops that pull people over for routine traffic stops...

And yet the vast majority manage to overcome that and act in a professional manner countless times every day. This guy couldn't.

Sorry, thought we were switching to a more general discussion based on this. There seemed to be developing another trend of forgiving people who act like jerks to cops because they are afraid something might happen, but not offering the same courtesy to cops who are confronted with such behavior who have very short timeframes to decide if there life is being threatened. I'm tired of the double standard.

Yes, the cops should be held to a higher standard, yes this guy should have backed down late in this tape, and yes sometimes cops go on power trips, and none of that excuses people ignoring the cop's instructions and deciding they can do whatever they want.

And to bring this back up, I'll point out that it's since come out he may have drawn his gun, so he did make such an attempt and clearly had an initial reaction that something was going really wrong here.

But the "danger" scenario is just not a valid argument in this situation. If the cop really thought the guy was a danger, then maybe his actions would make some sense. But that's clearly not the case here. He never pats the guy down, puts cuffs on him, or even tells him to stand still and put his hands ont he car. There are friends of Moats that are walking around the scene and the cop doesn't even know who they are.

So yes, I'd be willing to cut a cop some slack who thought his life was in danger, but this cop knew pretty early on that his life was not in danger and just used his power to be a dick. Or I should say, if he did think the guy was a danger, then he's an even worse cop than I thought and should definitely be fired because he didn't even take routine steps to lock down the scene.

larry wins the thread.

+1

It's pretty clear he did a routine traffic stop, got nervous when a bunch of people jumped out of the car, realised there was no danger, then taught them a lesson.

Look, when a cop pulls you over, stay in the car until he comes over, then explain what you need to. I still think there's a pretty darn good chance that he'd have been in the hospital a lot sooner if he had done that. And if he hadn't been, and the cop had still jerked him around, this thread ends 5 pages ago. Jump out of the car, try to run away, what do you expect?

And yes, the cop should have backed off when the nurse and other cop came out. I agree 100% he deserves disciplining for the end of this incident. The only reason I'm still here arguing (and I'm about to stop, I know it's getting circular, no one will change their mind) is I can't believe people think it's okay for these three people to jump out of the car and two of them try to run off when a cop pulls them over. I'm still trying to get my head around the acceptance of that, especially the belief that some cops are jerks means you don't have to listen to them when they pull you over.

I still can't believe anyone has trouble seeing this from the point of view of a family with a mother about to die any minute. Either you are incapable of empathy or are simply just able to react calmly and logically when a close one is about to die.

Either way, congrats on your cold heart. You'd likely make a fine cop, apparently.

A cop car turning on its lights behind me is likely going to give me a cold dose of reality. I guess I just have more respect for authority than a lot of you. Stop and explain the situation to the cop. Look to him for help rather than as the enemy. Don't jump out of the car and try to ignore him like the woman did. Cop car with lights on = stop, period. If you're really in trouble, he can help, possibly even get you there faster.

And maybe that's the fundamental cultural difference. I see the cops as on my side, even the one time I got pulled over for speeding (I was), or the one accident I was in as a teenager that was technically my fault. Lots of folks here argue about the cops as the enemy, and their initial reaction to a police presences is as the enemy to them. I think that reaction just helps feed the negative cycle that leads to incidents like this.

The bolded bit is why he needs to be fired. This is not his job nor his right as a police officer on a traffic stop or any other routine assignment. Somehow in this country we've handed over total authority to the Police force. They are not empowered to CONTROL society, they are empowered to enforce the law. Police intercession should not be a proactive system of taking action without necessity.

This cop knew what was going on as soon as the first 2 minutes had passed, he went above and beyond his authority when he detained moats after that. he wasn't being a cop he was being a prick.

The Police are around to protect citizens and enforce the law. Teaching someone a lesson isn't part of that. The image of a power tripping cop is far more prevelant than that of the honest community supporting one. Thats something that needs to change. People don't deserve respect because they put on a uniform, respect is still earned by fulfilling the postition that uniform entails with honor and decency.

not sure where I was going here but I get this image from Molson and gst that "oh god its a cop I should get on teh ground and bow and scrape non threateningly so they don't throw me in jail" and thats not at all what a police officer should expect (yes I know its hyperbole, live with it)

Officers must be able to deal with a distraught individual or group of them without losing their cool AT ALL. yes they are human too, but if you cannot manage to do that perhaps you should not be a police officer. it takes more than being a badass with an attitude to be a Policeman.

You have a valid point here, but the problem stems from corrupt officers at its root. If Police had never given the populace the reason to suspect they were just on power trips or taking advantage of their positon of authority then I doubt this perception would exist.

its the proverbial "one bad apple" syndrome over centuries of authoritarian groups in all societies. power corrupts. Society's memory is hard to change. a few really bad incidents and stories stick with the populace longer than the story of the cops that do their job with integrity and never get noticed for it.

Good post. People really just resent authority, and EXPLODE over any opportunity for bring it down a notch. If gives them the moral authority to defy authority, which is like some kind of drug. The national outrage over this one cop's poor attitude is going to embolden countless others to exhibit asshattery in the weeks to come.

Maybe if those Oakland cops had pulled their guns a little sooner they'd be alive today. Next time they will (perhaps when they pull over a black man who may or may not want them dead), they'll make a split second error, and the cycle will continue.

Police officers are human, nobody can ever really grasp that. And when they make mistakes (which is going to be fairly common, when there's almost 3/4 of a million of them in the united states), the first assumptions are always about racism, conspiracies, power trips. That gives a "high" to accuse them of such things. Everybody wants to be a martyr. If gives their lives meaning to feel abused by authority.

Cops should of course be held to higher standard, but again, there's close to 750,000 and the resources don't exactly allow them to be recruited from elite military programs and Ivy League Universities (though there are some from those places). It's impossible to find 750,000 perfect Americans for the role. Occasionally one will be VERY bad, even criminal, and very often, they're going to make mistakes.

MANY times, they'll make mistakes that show they're not cut out to be officers, and they're gone. It's a high stress job with high turnover and little security until you've proven yourself. It's EXTREMELY difficult to find the "perfect 750,000". Some like Rainmaker seem to think that without finding that perfect number, officer murders is just what's going "to happen". I promise you though, that if cities and police chiefs across the country could find that perfect 750,000 and send them out there every day, they would.

If it makes you feel like a big shot to feel like you're being held down by the man because you don't like the way an officer handled a traffic stop, that's your right I guess. But it might help to remember that 30 minutes earlier, that cop might have been dealing with a domestic violence situation, a traffic fatality, or a dead baby. A tiny bit of politeness and appreciation and understanding goes a LONG way.

This is a very compressed story. Yes you are going to think I'm lying or left things out, I didn't. I'll ignore you saying otherwise. I think I've gone over this in more detail before.

Couple years ago, I got pulled over accused of speeding at 120+ two weeks prior to this stop. The cop actually walked up to my window and the first words exchanged were "Are you a fucking idiot", yeah I was pretty damn confused. They towed my car pulled my license indefinitely (turned out to be 3 months) before it got to court, they can do that in MA. Depending on the outcome in court they can pull it longer and fine you.

When court day came my lawyer met with the judge, cops and DA. The judge lectured the cops for abusing their power and wasting taxpayers time and money to settle a grudge that was formed on evidence that was nothing but a make and model of car. No plates, id of driver, nothing.

So yeah, pardon me if I'm not a big fan of people who inevitably become cops. I was considering suing, but I was just glad it was over with. Hard to consult for a living without a license.

I'll put the combatants in this thread into D&D terms:

One side is Lawful Neutral. They follow the law to a T, without regard for compassion or flexibility. They are always in the right because they follow a rigid code that leaves no room for personal judgement in any situation.

One side is Chaotic Good. They don't feel that the law should be more important than what they feel is just and fair. They are a bit volatile because they mean well, and follow a individual code of conduct, and that can often put them at odds with authority.

One side is Chaotic Neutral. I FUCKING HATE COPS!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

If I encountered a black person that didn't treat me well, it would be pretty easy to just hate all black people. If I had a predisposition to hate black people, it would be even easier.

A black man murdered 4 white/hispanic cops in Oakland. Black men have committed many other crimes across the country, including high profile ones. Using the RainMaker/Jeff01/others logic in this thread, I would be completely justified in not trusting black people, assuming that they're going to mug me when I see them come down the street, etc. Maybe, if blacks can't get their shit together, facing racism is just "what happens".

Or, you could try to be a bigger person and the see the world beyond your own prejudices.

There's one between Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Good, that think that normal, rational people can use reasonable judgment and commit minor crimes on occasion without being bad people, but should still expect to be subject to police inconvenience and perhaps a small fine, understanding that since their own reason might not matter two shits to the rest of the world, a fairer system involves across the board enforcement, leaving people to make their own individual judgments about whether these tiny penalties are "worth it".

I think you took my post a bit too seriously. :)

Maybe, but I thought you summed things up pretty well.

Ok, well in that case, take me as seriously as you want!!!!

As I've stated before. I've done a lot of work at police departments across a couple states, I've spent a lot of time with police on and off duty. They are all a clone of each other and insecure children when their uniform is off.

Edit to clarify, I guess. Cops that fucked me over were staties. Cops that I worked with were local. I haven't seen any staties off the road.

Someone who deals with inner city crime could easily use the same logic to denigrate blacks. You're using personal anecdotal data to validate generalizations.

The proposition that "they are all a clone of each other" is just plain stupid when you're talking about a group of 750,000 people.

I've been pulled over in northeast several times without incident. I've also worked with police officers on and off duty who are incredibly committed to public service. That doesn't prove that every member of a group of 750,000 has the same the exact characteristics, of course. But your contention to the contrary is mind-boggling, illogical, and shows a deep-rooted irrational hatred.

I mean seriously, every single one sucks? 750,000? That would require incredibly successful targeted recruiting, and perhaps discipline if an officer displayed a good attitude, or did something heroic. Have you met all 750,000? This is like that poster claiming that more than 50% of people associated with New England are assholes, and trying to make that argument literally.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

I didn't work with all 750,000. Just a few dozen.

I don't think there is any real data. Hard to quantify nice and douche into meaningful statistics. If that was possible we probably all wouldn't look so dumb arguing this ridiculous topic to death when we know we are never going to share opinions :).

So I go by what I've seen and I've seen enough to form a relatively rigid opinion.

A cop cut me off 2 weeks ago and put his hand up to say he was sorry. My heart was in my throat because I thought I was screwed. Anyway, if it was reversed I would have must definitely got a ticket and deserved one. I'm not bitching, this is just life. Maybe he wrote himself out a ticket.

The last ticket I got the cop was probably one of the nicest guys I ever met. He said something about deer crossing the road and I needed to slow down. Then we started talking about deer hunting. He told me sorry but he had to give me a ticket and I told him sorry I made him do his job, I wasn't paying attention to my speed. Anyway, when I got back in the car my mom was laughing at me because the windows were down. I don't know why people don't like cops. You give them a little respect and most of them aren't dicks.

Was this lady that died in a car wreck or expected to get better? People shouldn't be running red lights.

Once you hate any defined group of people, your mind will always find and exaggerate evidence to support that opinion. Your brain will also group them together to dehumanize them (i.e. your "clone" comment - people are much easier to hate when you take away their individuality) That's why racism can be so vicious and damaging to a society.

And also, when you decide you hate an entire group of people regardless of individual characteristics, they can tell, don't be all that shocked if many of them aren't a huge fan of yours. When it's an officer, of course, they still need to act professionally, but they'll know you don't like them, they'll not like you, you'll know they don't like you, and your prejudice will feed on itself.

I can only say that I've worked jobs, including an 8 year on again, off again stint in the ER. I've been paid precisely because I keep my head when things are going wrong and I'd definitely not act like they did in that situation but you know what? In doing that, I've seen how people act when they're panicked and this was nowhere near off the chain in that category. Was it a bad decision? Yep, but do they deserve any blame for that? From where I'm sitting that's like blaming the short guy who can't reach the rope to pull himself out of the well. In general, people don't perform well under extreme stress and in this case neither of them did. The difference is that one of them is paid to perform and the other wasn't.

I'm saying that what they did wasn't smart at all but I'm not going to be the guy blaming them for anything just like honestly I'm really not blaming the officer. It's not a sign of weakness to realize your own weaknesses and his came to light that night. I'd bet he'd make a decent detective though or maybe even a IA guy given his distrust for other officers. Ok, last one was a tad bit sneaky. ;)

He had to draw his gun there and I didn't see him brandish it or anything. I think that part was fine. I don't think it showed that he thought something was really going wrong rather that this was the procedure to follow when this happens. His early read and reaction was fine and the gun played no more part IMHO.

And some people like to feel submissive to authority for one reason or another. They enjoy having less intelligent people dictate their lives and run their power trips on them.

My problem isn't that they can't bring in 750,000 competent officers, it's that they don't police themselves. When a cop breaks the rules or the law, he should be disciplined. This rarely happens in police departments. It's why you end up with cops that have hundreds of brutality complaints and no consequences. It's why they feel they are above the law.

Cops should be held to the highest standards of our society. They are in a position that leaves citizens vulnerable and can't be allowed to take advantage of that. Internal reviews should be the toughest out of any job in this country, but instead are the worst.

Or to be a decent human being you could see what sort of reception you DO get and react accordingly. I suspect everyone of being an utter and complete asshole, but I wait to see how they act towards me before allowing my standard gut reaction to flow into my actual in your face reaction.

People have the ability to dislike something and not act on that dislike.

I fear the Police because I've been victimized by them and am related to an ex cop who, just like the prick in this story, enjoyed the power trip and went to far. he's an EX cop because they fired him for it.

Do i immediately assume a cop is an asshole? usually, yes.

Do I act like an asshole first because of it? No, I wait and see how each individual acts to me. Its not all of one or the other Molson. We are allowed to carry our prejudices around and still base our reaction to a situation on what actually happened.

This cop is/was not acting like a cop SHOULD act towards anyone. he was on a power trip and he felt like he had to be a dick to feel special about himself. That is exactly what comes out on that video and the stories from all the sources.

Now in this economy (being a victim of a layoff) I am sympathetic to losing a high paying job, so I'm gonna step back from my real belief that he should be fired outright for even touching his weapon in this situation and hope that they demote him and stick him behind a desk for the rest of his career.

In any traffic stop where the doors fly open and occupants start spilling out, the cop would be pretty dumb not to draw his weapon. The recent events in Oakland should make that pretty obvious.

This cop obviously screwed the pooch here but taking out his sidearm was not wrong in any way. I bet you would have a hard time finding a cop that would fault him for that. His subsequent actions are where he was out of line.

It appears that this particular officer arrested the wife of another NFL player last year for making an illegal U-Turn.

Another allegation surfaces against Dallas police officer - ESPN

That cop should find a new profession because being a police officer doesn't seem to be his calling.

Does this jackass arrest everybody he stops?

So...he wrote five tickets against her, and four were "dropped." I'd love to know why. Especially that 'running a red light' ticket, since that seems to be common ground between the two cases.

The story that focuses specifically on the Thomas allegations has a statement from the lawyer saying that arrests on multiple violations isn't uncommon, but I have to ask - this isn't like, say, a domestic violence case where there might be multiple charges filed based on claims made by witnesses or the abused.

This is, theoretically, a police officer who saw the violations *in progress* and yet...four of the five were dropped?

Denmark. Rotten.

I don't know anything about the case, but it's very common for someone to plead guilty to one charge, in exchange for others involving the same incident to be dropped. Especially in a license/insurance situation where you'd rather have someone get in regulation than collect a fine.

For example, a plea offer for the 5 charges like that might be - plead guilty to all 5 charges, and sentencing will be set out. If you get your license/insurance/registration current by sentencing, the state agrees to dismiss all of those charges, and the red light violation, leaving you only with the u-turn ticket. That saves everyone a lot of time, and you encouraged the driver to hustle and get shit taken care of. If they get in regulation, they get off easy. If they don't, they get hammered with 5 charges at sentencing.

A enormous % of criminal charges are dropped/reduced. Neither prosecutors nor police have access to infinite resources.

In one typical prosecutor's office, the max amount of misdemeanor jury trials that could be held in a week because of staff/scheduling limitations is 3. Where that same week, maybe 500 cases are actually set for jury trial. The criminals have the bargaining advantage with those odds.

I did that when I was cited for a couple of violations as a dumb kid. The court allowed me to go watch boring traffic videos for eight hours rather than face fines/points on the license. However, it was somewhat like probation, in that I couldn't do that again for 5 years if I got another ticket. I'd have to pay the piper after that.

The problem is that no one gets arrested for what she did. They were minor traffic violations and this guy went on a power trip. He's a pile of shit. Let him go play ego-maniac in a mall or something.

I'm sure Maritza Thomas was just as polite as can be when he pulled her over as well.

In Texas people get arrested for that. Every state is different. In Idaho, it would be illegal to arrest her on those charges unless there was some question about identity, or some other reason that court appearance couldn't be assured. With FIVE charges (and the insurance/DL/registration probably weren't infractions, but misdemeanors), arrest isn't all that surprising, she probably even had to post bail.

The fact that she pled guilty to even one charge tells me we don't have all the facts beyond what they're alleging.

People get arrested for making illegal U-Turns in your state?

No, not u-turns, I was referring the license/registration/insurance charges.

That can be a tough predicament for an officer. How can you know someone's going to show up for court when you can't even sure of their identity? That's a big issue in communities with a lot of immigrants ("Oh no, that wasn't me, that was my brother Hector, he uses my name sometimes"). Officers would prefer not to arrest in general (it takes them off the street for a while), and in Idaho, it's pretty common for them to release people with suspended licenses and no insurance, who of course then have no choice but to illegally drive away from the traffic stop if they don't have someone to pick them up.

There's a big difference between infractions (u-turn/speeding/red lights) v. misdemeanors (driver's license/insurance/registration). Some of the later categories might be infractions in some states if it's a first offense, or if it's just an expiration issue.

Her identification had an old address on it. Nonetheless, you don't get arrested for Class C citations unless it's an extreme case. The cop is a douchebag, even his own superiors have said so, so why keep defending this idiot?

This particular cops seems to exude class. He felt bad about roughing up a mom in cuffs in front of her 7 year old daughter.

SPORTSbyBROOKS » Cop Who Harassed NFLer REALLY Likes His Job

Moats has issued a statement and accepted the apology.

I have to say, overall I am impressed with how he has handled this situation. No call for the officer's job, no suit, no real whining.

I cant help but think this officer is either a high school dork who got hung in the lockers a few too many times or lost his wife to a professional athlete...seems to be a bi of a pattern.

Houston is a city of HOW MANY PEOPLE? and he haas 2 complaints from immediate family of the what, 200 (being generous) athletes in the city...

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4026897

I wonder who he lost her to, Martina Navratilova?

Refuting the 30 second stop/compassionate cop argument, this guy got stopped for an expired tag with his mother in the car.

I'm sure the officer "was just doing his job."

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...hort-man-says/

Absolutely. I liked him when he was an Eagle, now I like him much more. I think he has handled this situation remarkably well.

I agree. He could have gone on some anti-cop/racial crusade and had a lot of followers, and caused a lot of problems for society. There's a lot of flames of hatred to fan and he's declined to do so. He could have dropped his name and NFL status at the traffic stop. He's showed a lot of character.

And I agree with how it appears he views it all: a sad situation, caused by poor judgment of a police officer, though not indicative a corrupt national police conspiracy against citizens.

And he is now an ex-Dallas police officer.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Pow...epartment.html

That's good news. Maybe he can move on to a mall where he belongs.

Here's another one...this time a doctor stopped on the way to the hospital and was detained after using his badge to enter the employees only parking lot.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=10147075

I find it hard to get in an uproar over this one. Guy was speeding, got out of the car, officer pointed a gun (you get out of the car, this is going to happen which I even agreed with in the Moat's incident), officer verified and let him go.

Seems to be a theme here. Don't break the law by speeding, running lights, etc. And don't get out of the car when you are pulled over. Very difficult things to follow...

And yet it bears noting that theme or no theme this encounter ended vastly different than the topic of this thread.

There was more to this story. The guy apparently had multiple citations out for him which led to the extended stop. After the initial story came out on the news, you never heard anything else on it.

I remember hearing the guy on the 10 o'clock news and said to the wife that if your mom collapses and you have all those citations, you just call 911, you don't bother putting her in the car and driving her to the hospital for exactly that reason.

Hey, he ain't never did nutin' wrong!

I have no sympathy for that guy. He is running lights and endangering the lives of innocent people. He shouldn't have kicked him in the head but that guy isn't someone we should be making a stink about.

You don't have to have sympathy for the criminal to express anger at the police officer. The criminal should go to jail and the officer should be fired.

I normally defend officers of the law, but that cop should be arrested on assault charges. The guy was on the ground for a good 5 seconds and instead of doing his job, he ran in just to kick him. It could have endangered his other police officers by doing that kind of crap and could have easily killed the criminal.

Edit: I missed the high five at the end, what a douche bag.

What also astounds me is the complete stupidity displayed by this officer. I mean, maybe it's the quietest helicopter in the world, but it is a high speed chase, and if you don't think that someone is videotaping it, then you're too stupid to be a police officer.

I don't have sympathy for him either, but cops should not be doling out their own justice. That's up to our court of law.

Took over a year for the department to fire these guys.
Birmingham police beating video Video - al.com

That's a pretty horrifying video.

If someone tried to kill me with their car I'd definitely try to bash their skull in if I had the chance (at least if that chance occurred seconds after they tried to murder me).

Maybe there's a human on earth that wouldn't have, but good luck finding 750,000 of them to risk their lives to be police officers.

I'm sorry you have so much hate in your heart. I could start a thread of all the bad things black people do and get completely overwhelmed and see that evil everywhere. There would thousands of examples to prove any awful point I'd want to make. I'm very glad that I haven't been "lost" in that way, like you are towards police officers. It's a vicious cycle. You will find evil in the world, in any group, if you become obsessed with your own rage, victim complex, and sense of moral superiority.

So those guys got fired, and guess who will replace them - the guys who didn't get the jobs last time around. The less qualified guys. The guys with worse tempers, less aptitude for the job, etc.

Wow.

Gotcha, so these were the absolutely best of the best and we can never expect better justice than what is provided by them. The very best of the best, the best we can expect is someone who will beat an unconscious man who had just been ejected from a crashing car. I think you've just insulted most law enforcement officers and I know you've just insulted friends of mine who serve and protect and don't see beating an unconscious man as a right of the job.

I missed where I said they this was a "part of their job", or that anyone thought it was "a part of their job".

No, they're clearly not the best of the best. There's probably some cops who could have calmly went up to him and secured the scene, etc. I just personally don't fault them for bashing that punk's head in. I was sorry to read that he's OK (though serving 20 years jail). He'll be out someday, and he'll probably kill someone.

The behavior displayed by these cops wouldn't impact you as long as you don't try to murder them. I imagine people in any profession would react somewhat negatively to someone if they tried to kill them. It wasn't exactly proper procedure. But the original "bad cop" that started this thread was a billion times worse than these guys, because that one had a negative impact on regular people.

I can see how my last comment might be taken as an insult to cops. But it's true. It's a tough jobs and in any job, "mistakes" will be made. Cops' mistakes are magnified because they're dealing with so many high stakes situations and intense scrutiny. And the other human beings waiting in the wings ain't perfect either, unfortunately.

It's an insult because you are projecting your own somewhat sociopathic code of morality


onto a vast number of people you know nothing about. You stated also


theres only one guy on the planet, maybe, who wouldn't assault an unconscious man who led him on a high speed chase which means they may not be cream of the crop but they're at worse second best since clearly we can only find one guy, maybe, that doesn't take pleasure in beating the helpless. Funny, most chases though don't end this way so that one guy must either be making a hell of a lot of chases or the number of people as violently oriented as you seem to be are a lot lower than you are counting.


Yes, and if they acted on it by wailing on a helpless guy they'd get put in jail not fired and it's possible it still might happen to these guys. Of course, had they played by the rules they're ostensibly paid to uphold, they wouldn't be in this mess.

What is with your obsession about black people doing awful things? This is the 2nd or 3rd time I've seen you take this angle. Cops don't get to beat the crap out of people and be able to right it off because "we're all human."

Just pointing out how people aren't as open-minded as they think they are. This point was directed to Rainmaker, not anyone who just has a problem with anything a particular officer does.

We're at a point in society, fortunately, where we can recognize a bias against a race. But we can't recognize it when it comes to any other group: a particular occupation, religion, income status, sexual orientation, etc. I try to make the point about painting broad strokes over groups of people by using the most obvious one, the only one the mainstream really "gets" at this point in humans' development.

With police, of course, these broad strokes are particularly dangerous, because those who have that bias think that when they interact with the police, they police are automatically in the wrong. The rage of moral superiority can consume them, and they can escalate the situation into something dangerous. Happens all the time. It's really an identical process to any other kind of bigotry. If I hate black people, I'm going to act around them in a way that will make them (appropriately) act negatively towards me, thus confirming my prejudice.

The only way to end that cycle is to have the courage to give up the hate and try to see people in any group as humans.

I made this rant last night, it's not related to anything posted yesterday, it's really from the past in this thread.

The cop who got drunk and beat the living shit out a female bartender a couple years ago was sentenced to probation. He actually got much less than Chris Brown. Not only did he beat her down, he later threatened to plant drugs on her if she showed anyone the tape.

Oh and here's the best part. He still is a Chicago Police Officer.

Cop in bar fight video gets probation - 6/24/09 - Chicago News - abc7chicago.com

Cue molson to tell us how he was acting heroically in self-defense.

I never said any of the above cops were "acting heroically in self-defense", and I specifically criticized the entire Chicago PD that stood with this particular cop as a sign of "solidarity". Characterizing things I've said previously as being somehow in support of women being beat up is a TOTAL douchebag move, but the standard fare from you.

I'd be curious what you've actually done to help anything. You're a douchebag with a keyboard.

So ya - fuck off troll

I think at this point people are going to want believe what they. I think most police are decent people however there are some very crooked cops out there who hide behind their badge. These bad cops generally get away with a lot of stuff even if it is caught on camera.