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MikeVic 04-08-2008 09:14 PM

Damn TSN score person. They showed 9-8 for whatever reason at the top of the 9th when it was really 8-8. And then there's a single, and a triple to make it 9-8 for the As. Thanks for the jinx!

Buccaneer 04-08-2008 09:15 PM

From this week's Power Rankings

Quote:

After Week 1, the Cards have the major's best ERA among starters at 1.21. It can't possibly last, but pitching coach Dave Duncan is a genius.

Understatement of the decade.

Quote:

If Trevor Hoffman hadn't gotten off to the anti-Jake Peavy start, the Padres might have the best record in baseball right now.


No shit. They could easily be 7-1 right now, better than the 5-1 O's and Brews.

Arles 04-08-2008 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1701681)
How many years of free agency did they buy out? Just 1 and a bunch of arby years?

SI

1, maybe 2 with the team option. It's very similar to what Colorado did with Troy. What's nice (in addition to the 1 or 2 years of FA) is that Arizona knows exactly how much he will cost each season. When you have a budget in the $70-80 million range ($20 mil per are deferred until 2010), it's nice to know that Young will make between $4 and $7 million in his arb years and $8 for his first season of FA eligibility.

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-09-2008 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty (Post 1701526)
I love the Tigers, but even as a huge fan, I'm getting a sick, twisted sort of delight watching a team with a $130 payroll getting thumped, and looking confused.

I still think they'll pull out of it.


Meanwhile, the Royals, Orioles and Brewers are playing extremely well. Granted, the Orioles have a pretty good size payroll, but they're usually the team that finds a way to lose a ton of games with a $100M+ payroll. Evidently that role has been passed to the Tigers for the time being.

Logan 04-09-2008 08:10 AM

Teams locking up their young guys to long deals, even if it only keeps them in town for an extra year or two, is going to show to be one of the smartest ideas in awhile.

Calis 04-09-2008 09:24 PM

Greinke looking great again tonight.

samifan24 04-09-2008 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calis (Post 1702748)
Greinke looking great again tonight.


Yes sir. I'm glad he's on my fantasy team.

Neuqua 04-09-2008 10:20 PM

Cubs and Pirates are in the 15th inning.... Let me go to bed already...

korme 04-09-2008 10:47 PM

Corey Patterson is on steroids.

And BPhillips just straight up makes plays happens.

sterlingice 04-09-2008 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calis (Post 1702748)
Greinke looking great again tonight.


I was at that game. It was cold and wet and miserable and we spent pretty much from the 3rd inning on in the concourse. Didn't seem to bother Greinke, tho.

Also, once we went up there in the third, I called John Buck's homer in the 3rd. Although I called it as a walkoff home run where they called the game after. When he hit it- my wife and friend just stared at me dumbfounded as I proclaimed that I am clearly a deity.

SI

sterlingice 04-10-2008 12:35 AM

Oh, another thing of note. The game was not really expected to get in and it was raining pretty much the entire game so Girardi scratched Ian Kennedy and started Brian Bruney, long reliever, instead. So, they burned through 4 pitchers (including Kennedy who gave up 2 in 2 innings), trying to be cutesy with the weather forecast.

SI

Vince 04-10-2008 12:45 AM

That's like what Bochy and the Giants did last week, only not as bad. In bullet form:

-Chance of Rain, Torre and co. decide to shelve Billingsley, and tell Bochy and co. so.
-Bochy decides to shelve Lincecum as well.
-Lincecum comes in anyways in the 4th, even though it started to lightly rain in the 3rd.
-Rain delay starts after the 4th inning, lasts one hour.
-Lincecum comes out AFTER the rain delay, continues to pitch.

I mean, what the f***? You decide that you want to protect Lincecum from a potential rain delay, put him in anyways as a reliever AFTER it starts to rain, and then keep him in there after he's been sitting around for an hour?

Atocep 04-10-2008 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince (Post 1702901)
That's like what Bochy and the Giants did last week, only not as bad. In bullet form:

-Chance of Rain, Torre and co. decide to shelve Billingsley, and tell Bochy and co. so.
-Bochy decides to shelve Lincecum as well.
-Lincecum comes in anyways in the 4th, even though it started to lightly rain in the 3rd.
-Rain delay starts after the 4th inning, lasts one hour.
-Lincecum comes out AFTER the rain delay, continues to pitch.

I mean, what the f***? You decide that you want to protect Lincecum from a potential rain delay, put him in anyways as a reliever AFTER it starts to rain, and then keep him in there after he's been sitting around for an hour?


He should have been fired before Lincecum had a chance to throw a pitch after the delay. Stupid decisions similar to this is why Joe Girardi was fired and why the Marlins struggled to find any healthy pitchers last season.

Chief Rum 04-10-2008 09:30 PM

Not sure how the numbers stack up now, but I heard this on the radio yesterday after the Angels' 4-HR game against the Tribe: as of that point, they were leading either the AL or all MLB with 14 HRs.

Go figure (and how long can we make it last?). :)

tucker rocky 04-11-2008 09:25 PM

Brett Myers pitches 8 innings tonight against the Cubs FTW.
This after giving up back-to-back homers in the first.

Nice showing after a so-so(opening) and awful(2nd) start.

Now if the rest of the Phillie bats can get going....

sterlingice 04-12-2008 01:03 PM

I know he's on the Rays and I don't wish any ill will towards a struggling franchise, but can I be allowed to root for Evan Longoria "only" hitting .270 with 12 homers this season so all the "fantasy experts" get egg on their face for expecting every hot prospect that comes along to hit like Ryan Braun's rookie stats?

SI

JonInMiddleGA 04-12-2008 01:31 PM

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...ezio_0412.html

Washington — Scott Spiezio was only two months out of a substance abuse treatment center when the Braves signed him to a minor league contract two weeks ago. It apparently wasn't long enough.

The Braves released Spiezio on Saturday after he showed up to a AAA Richmond Braves game unprepared to play Friday, according to Braves general manager Frank Wren.

"We had an agreement with Scott," Wren said. "There were three things we asked him to do: No. 1 is to continue his aftercare, which included testing, No. 2, that he attend AA [meetings] and No. 3 he would show up at the park every day ready to play. And yesterday he was not ready to play."

Wren declined further comment on why Spiezio was unprepared to play. Spiezio's agent Barry Meister declined to comment on specifics on Saturday as well.

"We appreciate the Braves being so sensitive," Meister said. "[Scott] is going to go home and spend time with his kids and continue to work on his aftercare."
...
Spiezio was hitting .333 (7-for-21) in five games for Richmond. The Richmond Braves were playing their first road game of the year Friday in Allentown, Pa., against the Lehigh Valley IronPigs.

"Dave Brundage, our AAA manager, was really saddened when I talked to him," Wren said. "He thought Scott was making good progress on all fronts. He just needs more time.

"He needs to be in an environment where he can get the care he needs. It's more important for him to be in a stable environment rather than traveling."

DaddyTorgo 04-12-2008 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 1705049)
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...ezio_0412.html

Washington — Scott Spiezio was only two months out of a substance abuse treatment center when the Braves signed him to a minor league contract two weeks ago. It apparently wasn't long enough.

The Braves released Spiezio on Saturday after he showed up to a AAA Richmond Braves game unprepared to play Friday, according to Braves general manager Frank Wren.

"We had an agreement with Scott," Wren said. "There were three things we asked him to do: No. 1 is to continue his aftercare, which included testing, No. 2, that he attend AA [meetings] and No. 3 he would show up at the park every day ready to play. And yesterday he was not ready to play."

Wren declined further comment on why Spiezio was unprepared to play. Spiezio's agent Barry Meister declined to comment on specifics on Saturday as well.

"We appreciate the Braves being so sensitive," Meister said. "[Scott] is going to go home and spend time with his kids and continue to work on his aftercare."
...
Spiezio was hitting .333 (7-for-21) in five games for Richmond. The Richmond Braves were playing their first road game of the year Friday in Allentown, Pa., against the Lehigh Valley IronPigs.

"Dave Brundage, our AAA manager, was really saddened when I talked to him," Wren said. "He thought Scott was making good progress on all fronts. He just needs more time.

"He needs to be in an environment where he can get the care he needs. It's more important for him to be in a stable environment rather than traveling."


bummer. sad to hear

Logan 04-12-2008 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1705039)
I know he's on the Rays and I don't wish any ill will towards a struggling franchise, but can I be allowed to root for Evan Longoria "only" hitting .270 with 12 homers this season so all the "fantasy experts" get egg on their face for expecting every hot prospect that comes along to hit like Ryan Braun's rookie stats?

SI


They've had egg on their face for years. When was the last time the "surefire ROY" actually won it? Your boy Alex Gordon was a colossal failure last year from that perspective.

Cringer 04-12-2008 01:37 PM

Is "showing up not ready to play" them trying to say he was drunk/hanged over in a nice way for us sensative civilians?

Cringer 04-12-2008 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1705039)
I know he's on the Rays and I don't wish any ill will towards a struggling franchise, but can I be allowed to root for Evan Longoria "only" hitting .270 with 12 homers this season so all the "fantasy experts" get egg on their face for expecting every hot prospect that comes along to hit like Ryan Braun's rookie stats?

SI


How many times has he been called Eva Longoria by fans or anyone else? I know that is how I read it and I was confused for a second on why you where talking about her playing baseball. :)

sterlingice 04-12-2008 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1705052)
They've had egg on their face for years. When was the last time the "surefire ROY" actually won it? Your boy Alex Gordon was a colossal failure last year from that perspective.


That was why I was trying to temper people's expectations of Gordon last year. Rookies just don't hit that well very often no matter how good they are.

SI

sterlingice 04-12-2008 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cringer (Post 1705060)
How many times has he been called Eva Longoria by fans or anyone else? I know that is how I read it and I was confused for a second on why you where talking about her playing baseball. :)


I had to go back and make sure I didn't put in "Eva Longoria" myself :)

SI

Arles 04-12-2008 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1705061)
That was why I was trying to temper people's expectations of Gordon last year. Rookies just don't hit that well very often no matter how good they are.

SI

I'm going nuts over Justin Upton right now. He looks like a right-handed Griffey Jr and has been insane so for this season. I'm sure he'll come down to life soon, but he is amazing to watch.

watravaler 04-12-2008 07:25 PM

So, I'm watching Cole Hammels pitch, and I notice the Cubs are hitting every ball hard/far/etc...but have nothing to show for it...any Saber-heads want to point me in the right direction regarding how to tell if a pitcher is getting lucky? Thanks in advance...

Atocep 04-12-2008 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watravaler (Post 1705162)
So, I'm watching Cole Hammels pitch, and I notice the Cubs are hitting every ball hard/far/etc...but have nothing to show for it...any Saber-heads want to point me in the right direction regarding how to tell if a pitcher is getting lucky? Thanks in advance...


Disclaimer: Small sample sizes are dangerous.

Through 7 innings Hammels struck out 5, walked 2, and allowed 1 hit. So he faced 24 batters, 17 put the ball in play, only 1 had a hit. So the Cubs had a .058 BABIP against him today and league average is roughly .300. You'd expect the Cubs to have 5-6 hits instead of just 1.

Atocep 04-12-2008 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles (Post 1705145)
I'm going nuts over Justin Upton right now. He looks like a right-handed Griffey Jr and has been insane so for this season. I'm sure he'll come down to life soon, but he is amazing to watch.


I wouldn't expect him to come down too far. I'd be surprised if he didn't put up a 20 year old season similar to A-Rod's.

MrBug708 04-13-2008 01:41 AM

Gotta love the Giants. Dude pitches a no hitter threw 6, goes deep even, and still loses

Bad-example 04-13-2008 11:09 AM

Cain is the ace
Lincecum in your face

sterlingice 04-13-2008 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708 (Post 1705258)
Gotta love the Giants. Dude pitches a no hitter threw 6, goes deep even, and still loses


That's Matt Cain for you. I think he ran over a family of black cats at one point or went crazy in a mirror shop. Or maybe he has a Dodgers shirt buried in the foundation of his home.

SI

lordscarlet 04-14-2008 10:55 AM

Finally the 9 game losing streak is over. Ugh.

Karlifornia 04-14-2008 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708 (Post 1705258)
Gotta love the Giants. Dude pitches a no hitter threw 6, goes deep even, and still loses


Well, so far, the Giants and Dodgers have pretty similar records...

MrBug708 04-14-2008 12:17 PM

Indeed

sterlingice 04-15-2008 07:33 AM

Was last night the game that gets the Tigers going? Down 5-0 in the 6th and 9-4 in the 7th, they rally for 1 in the 7th and 6 in the 8th to beat the Twins.

Royals get another nice pitching performance as Bannister and Greinke both improve to 3-0 with back to back complete game wins.

SI

miami_fan 04-15-2008 07:42 AM

PING: Mark Shapiro and Eric Wedge

Why is Joe Borowski still closing for your Indians?

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-15-2008 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1706903)
Royals get another nice pitching performance as Bannister and Greinke both improve to 3-0 with back to back complete game wins.

SI


Greinke and Bannister are throwing some absolutely filthy stuff. They're not biting corners either. They're throwing strikes, which is wonderful to see. If Meche pulls himself together, that's a stiff 1-2-3 to deal with for any team.

samifan24 04-15-2008 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan (Post 1706912)
PING: Mark Shapiro and Eric Wedge

Why is Joe Borowski still closing for your Indians?


We Tribe fans have no idea. Wedge and Shapiro knew Joe Blowsavski's velocity was down and his previous outing was a horrendous failure so I'm not sure why they'd put him in that situation last night. And I do blame Wedge and Shapiro for this one. They've done a lot of great things for the organization but clearly Joe Borowski is done as a ML pitcher. The organization's insistence on keeping him in that role until yesterday, in the face of numerous blowups and failures, is mind-boggling to say the least.

samifan24 04-15-2008 02:09 PM

This just in: Zack Greinke is still nasty.

Logan 04-15-2008 02:09 PM

Borowski's been placed on the DL with a wounded ego.

MikeVic 04-15-2008 02:10 PM

A Royals/Reds World Series would be cool.

sterlingice 04-16-2008 08:48 AM

We're going to have to fix our offense and our 4th starter first. Bale was doing ok until last night (a pair of 6 IP, 4 ER games until not making it out of the 4th last night) but nothing special. Tomko has actually done good in the 5th spot with a pair of quality starts. Meche has started walking a ton of people, nibbling a bit too much, and that's going to have to stop. He'll get a chance tonight against Anaheim.

The bigger problem is that in 14 games, they have scored 6 once and 5 twice and the other 11 games, 4 or less. That's going to have to change.

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-16-2008 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1708048)
We're going to have to fix our offense and our 4th starter first. Bale was doing ok until last night (a pair of 6 IP, 4 ER games until not making it out of the 4th last night) but nothing special. Tomko has actually done good in the 5th spot with a pair of quality starts. Meche has started walking a ton of people, nibbling a bit too much, and that's going to have to stop. He'll get a chance tonight against Anaheim.

The bigger problem is that in 14 games, they have scored 6 once and 5 twice and the other 11 games, 4 or less. That's going to have to change.

SI


Hochaver has a 1-1 record and a 2.60 ERA through 3 games at Omaha. Bale's probably got 2 starts at the most to straighten himself out. He had a 5.79 ERA coming into last night, which isn't even doing OK IMO. It's inevitable that Hochaver will be in the rotation, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Lathum 04-16-2008 06:23 PM

John Maine needs to start throwing some strikes

lordscarlet 04-16-2008 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1708770)
John Maine needs to start throwing some strikes


I tend to disagree. :)

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-17-2008 07:52 AM

It's about time that Meche gave KC a quality start. Hopefully this will settle him down. Excited to see if Bannister and Greinke can both go 4-0 over the next two nights.

sterlingice 04-17-2008 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1709066)
It's about time that Meche gave KC a quality start. Hopefully this will settle him down. Excited to see if Bannister and Greinke can both go 4-0 over the next two nights.


I'm pretty sure that will be a tall order as Tomko is pitching tonight ;)

That said, cut Gil some slack. He was lights out last year and if he struggles for a couple of games early, I think he's earned a little bit of a free pass. Have you seen Roy Oswalt's ERA until last night? Or Josh Beckett or CC Sabathia?

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-17-2008 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1709075)
I'm pretty sure that will be a tall order as Tomko is pitching tonight ;)

That said, cut Gil some slack. He was lights out last year and if he struggles for a couple of games early, I think he's earned a little bit of a free pass. Have you seen Roy Oswalt's ERA until last night? Or Josh Beckett or CC Sabathia?

SI


Ah, hadn't checked the starters yet. Guess the off-days have mixed up the rotation already.

I like Gil........as long as he pitches like a $11M pitcher. :)

MikeVic 04-17-2008 04:44 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3351418

Tejada is two years older than everyone though.

Coffee Warlord 04-17-2008 04:52 PM

Bet Soriano is prolly 4 years older.

MikeVic 04-17-2008 04:53 PM

Pujuols is six years older.

sterlingice 04-17-2008 05:05 PM

And Julio Franco is still 49

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-18-2008 08:24 AM

KC media reporting that Luke Hochaver (the 2006 #1 draft pick out of Tennessee) will probably start on Sunday, taking over the rotation spot from the injured John Bale. Hochaver was 1-1 with a 2.60 ERA in his three starts in AAA Omaha.

MikeVic 04-18-2008 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1709764)
And Julio Franco is still 49

SI


I bet he'll reveal that he was really 50 years old last year.

MikeVic 04-18-2008 08:47 AM

Maybe that means Otis Nixon was 55 when he last played?

lordscarlet 04-18-2008 09:47 AM

Sigh. Long, long season.

Ksyrup 04-18-2008 10:46 AM

Did anyone see the E60 interview that prompted Tejada to come forward? This crap about "I had a heavy weight on my shoulders" was just that, crap. The interview is airing in the next week, so he took the air out of the balloon by coming forward now. But the interview is the classic setup - I'm not sure what it was specifically for (I can't believe he'd get too much into the steroids/Congressional investigation thing), but the dude asks him his age, what year he was born, and then pulls out a copy of his birth certificate and starts in on him. Tejada practically starts undressing to find the mic so he can get the hell out of there.

I don't know... in the context of litigation, when crap like that happens, it's pretty interesting (assuming there's some relation to the issue at hand). When a reporter does it under the guise of discussing something else, it comes across as pretty crappy. But that's probably because of my perspective. :)

MrBug708 04-18-2008 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1710050)
KC media reporting that Luke Hochaver (the 2006 #1 draft pick out of Tennessee) will probably start on Sunday, taking over the rotation spot from the injured John Bale. Hochaver was 1-1 with a 2.60 ERA in his three starts in AAA Omaha.


As a Dodger fan, I hope he busts

Logan 04-18-2008 01:31 PM

Tampa Bay gives Longoria a 6 year deal that could stretch to a 9 year deal. Interesting. So much for that whole "keeping him in the minors for 13 days to buy the extra year of service time."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3353025

Lathum 04-18-2008 07:48 PM

Santana is dialed in

Logan 04-18-2008 07:51 PM

He's a lot of fun to watch. Somehow he's pulling me away from Rangers/Devils.

Logan 04-18-2008 07:53 PM

Shit I'm turning it off...he just gave up a solo bomb to Utley. I'm bad luck.

JonInMiddleGA 04-18-2008 09:04 PM

Chipper Jones is happy to see that Chan Ho Park is working out of the Dodger bullpen.

And my goodness what a rocket he just hit.

sterlingice 04-18-2008 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708 (Post 1710155)
As a Dodger fan, I hope he busts


I haven't been all that impressed by him, personally. And he's not all that young at 24. Zack's in his wacky 5th season and he's younger than Hochevar. I do half hope he fails, but, of course, I would like him to do well for the good of the team.

I would say it's a mistake to bring him up and start his arby clock. But, oops, too late- as part of our deal with the pointy horned Boras, Hochevar got a major league deal when signing so his clock started a long time ago while he was mediocre'ing his was through the minors.

SI

sterlingice 04-18-2008 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1710258)
Tampa Bay gives Longoria a 6 year deal that could stretch to a 9 year deal. Interesting. So much for that whole "keeping him in the minors for 13 days to buy the extra year of service time."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3353025


That's a really interesting deal. Hell, if I were a team, I'd sign any of my "can't miss" prospects to that deal because you're only out $19M and if they do pan out, you buy out 3 years of free agency for 11, 11.5, and 14.

For the Royals, take, for instance, David DeJesus. He was a "can't miss" guy and he's settled into dependable. $19M for his arby years is a bargain and maybe in another couple of years, $11M won't seem so bad for a dependable but not spectacular CF. But if not, you're not on the hook for it as those are all team options.

Even with Angel Berroa, who we are on the hook for, it's not that much of a money sink. Not that much more than he's already being paid. Royals thought they were smart, locking him up after he got ROY. Didn't pan out and he's getting like $4M per year to sit in Omaha this year.

But, then what about, say, Carlos Beltran a few years ago. It would have been an absolute steal to have him under that contract.

You wouldn't do this with every prospect that comes along but with the guys who are the "upper tier" guys. For instance, in the past 2 years with the Royals it would have been Gordon and Butler.

SI

Logan 04-18-2008 09:25 PM

I actually didn't realize that DeJesus got that deal...good for him. I've known him for awhile, from Manalapan, NJ to Rutgers. We have the same barber who he still goes to when he's home...I wonder if his tipping has gone up.

sterlingice 04-18-2008 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1710467)
I actually didn't realize that DeJesus got that deal...good for him. I've known him for awhile, from Manalapan, NJ to Rutgers. We have the same barber who he still goes to when he's home...I wonder if his tipping has gone up.


No, he didn't get that deal. That was a hypothetical. That said, he's locked up for another couple of years:

06:$0.5M, 07:$2M, 08:$2.5M, 09:$3.6M, 10:$4.7M, 11:$6M club option ($0.5M buyout)

The club option in 2011 is to buy out his first year of free agency (exact stats from this nice little blog I ran across: Cot's Baseball Contracts: Kansas City Royals )

SI

samifan24 04-18-2008 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1710258)
Tampa Bay gives Longoria a 6 year deal that could stretch to a 9 year deal. Interesting. So much for that whole "keeping him in the minors for 13 days to buy the extra year of service time."


No, I believe Tampa Bay got the extra year of service time, at least according to what I read earlier on ESPN.

Chief Rum 04-19-2008 01:09 AM

One more year, and that's all I have to deal with. One more year until Franky "Cardiac-Rod" Rodriguez gets some $15M from some other stupid team, and I don't have to live through seven non-1-2-3 9th innings in eight save opps.

The memories have been great. 2002 was great. But I have never been more ready for a "beloved" player to hit the road. I hope the Yanks give him $20M. Or pay so much that there is no way we bring him back.

Just sick of it the tension. Yeah, he finishes the job, I admit that, more often than not. But there's got to be a better way (and for much cheaper than he is looking for).

Logan 04-19-2008 08:42 AM

But he got the save!

MizzouRah 04-19-2008 10:32 AM

Went to the Cardinals - Giants game last night. Wow, Pujols hit one just over our heads where we were sitting (in Big Mac land), what a bomb that was!

Free Big Mac's today!!!!!

molson 04-19-2008 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1710541)

Just sick of it the tension. Yeah, he finishes the job, I admit that, more often than not. But there's got to be a better way (and for much cheaper than he is looking for).


He's off to a slow start, but you wouldn't be able to replace him with anything CLOSE to as good. There aren't any closers out there that get 1-2-3 every time.

Arles 04-19-2008 11:05 AM

As a fan of the DBacks (live in PHX) and Cardinals (orig from St. Louis), I'm pretty much giddy at the start of the baseball season. I don't know how long it will continue for, but it's a fun ride right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 1710612)
He's off to a slow start, but you wouldn't be able to replace him with anything CLOSE to as good. There aren't any closers out there that get 1-2-3 every time.

IMO, closers are a pretty terrible investment. With the exception of a few (Hoffy, Rivera, maybe Nathan), closers don't give you consistent performance over a 3-4 year period. So, paying one $8-15 million seems like a waste. The best bet is to groom some young guys and let the best one be the closer. Then, when he gets to his arbitration years, trade him for a steady reliever and a prospect. They're almost like running backs in the NFL.

Vince 04-19-2008 11:16 AM

Arlie, I'd almost go so far as to say that relievers in general are a pretty iffy lot. It seems that there are very few guys who are consistently great in relief. Maybe it's just because of the relatively small sample size that relief pitchers get, or the fact that I've been a Giants fan all my life...but I have a very jaded view of relievers.

molson 04-19-2008 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles (Post 1710614)

IMO, closers are a pretty terrible investment. With the exception of a few (Hoffy, Rivera, maybe Nathan), closers don't give you consistent performance over a 3-4 year period. So, paying one $8-15 million seems like a waste. The best bet is to groom some young guys and let the best one be the closer. Then, when he gets to his arbitration years, trade him for a steady reliever and a prospect. They're almost like running backs in the NFL.


A team would do very well to ignore the entire "closer" role and just have try to put together a well-balanced bullpen of "middle relievers". Put the one that's pitching the best at the time in the most important situations. (and leading by 2-3 runs in the 9th is NOT the most important situation).

Designate one as an "Ace" if you want, but don't restrict him to pitching when you have the lead, that's a total waste. Bring him in tie games in the 8th, or when you're down a run late and have big bats coming up in the next inning.

I've been glad to see Terry Francona move Papelbon somewhat away from the lame old closer's role.

sterlingice 04-19-2008 11:50 AM

So, let's turn this around into the question of the day? What would you do for your bullpen? You can't just neglect it when building a team. I know we've all see where teams go into awful funks in all facets of the game due to a porous bullpen. All of a sudden hitters stop hitting and starting pitchers pitch much worse almost as if there's a collective "Oh f@#$ it. No matter how good we do, the pen's going to blow it".

But being the Yankees and paying Steve Karsay $5M and $6M a year to be a 7th inning guy didn't exactly work wonders. And it's not as if every team has 4 or 5 fireballing prospect starting pitchers every year they can stick back there then move them to the rotation the next season and start the cycle over again (ala Santana and Liriano with the Twins).

Hell, the Royals cobbled together a great bullpen for about 2 months last year (between when Dotel was hurt for the first 2 months and traded at the deadline). Their bullpen ERA was in the 2's for that stretch of time and the club was over .500 and it was widely accepted as the key to their success. Here was the layout:
mediocre, cheap closer for 9th (Dotel $5M)
rule V draft pick soon to be closer for 8th or 9th (Soria)
"proven" setup guy for 7th or 8th (Riske $2M)
uber-prospect, minus some shine, bridge guy anywhere from 5th thru 9th (Greinke)
failed starter prospect turned LOOGY (Gobble)
rubber armed long reliever (Peralta)

Now you just can't do that. Soria doesn't come along every day and you can't rely on Greinke going crazy (hopefully) so he has to go back to the pen. And even odder is that the bullpen was pretty darn bad for the first month when it looked like this:

Riske- closer
Soria- setup
Peralta- secondary setup
Gobble- LOOGY
Duckworth, others schlubs- middle relief

It's not all that different. Greinke was a big factor. But so was Dotel bumping everyone else back. Which is really odd since he was just merely mediocre (3.91 ERA with the Royals). I can't explain it- but it's an odd case study.

Hell, this year the Royals bullpen have been lights out, save for some middle relief work, mostly chalked up by Hideo Nomo to the tune of an 18.69 ERA. I hate to say it- I really wanted to see him succeed but I think he's done.

This year, the successful part of their bullpen looks like this. If I don't put an ERA, it's 0 and there are 4 of them (Soria, Gobble, Nunez, Ramirez):

closer: Soria, 7IP, 2H, 10K- lights out, has put down something like 17 straight hitters
setup: Ron Mahay (2.00 ERA, 9 IP, 11K)- signed as a replacement for Riske at $2M when Riske bolted for big money
2nd setup: Ramon Ramirez (4IP, 6K)- young fireballer acquired for a PTBNL (rumored to be Jorge De La Rosa) in spring training, coming off of an injury last year
LOOGY: Gobble (he'll leave eventually)
Miscellaneous Guy: Nunez (6IP, 7K)- Not sure his role, looked like the only guy besides Soria that Hillman trusted in the Detroit series with 3 IP in that series but has been used less since

I don't know if this can keep up. Obviously the 0 ERAs will fall by the wayside but how many of those can stay on the sunny side of 3.50? If the majority can, then it will likely be a good bullpen season. Hochevar may start, may go to the pen, and that's becoming one of those questions that's more of a "when" not an "if" because he has to do something this year.

SI

ISiddiqui 04-19-2008 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 1710624)
I've been glad to see Terry Francona move Papelbon somewhat away from the lame old closer's role.


That's probably due to Bill James' influence. People get on him for his "non-closer theory" a few years back, but, that wasn't exactly the theory, and they didn't have a relief ace at that time. They do now.

Buccaneer 04-19-2008 12:39 PM

Speaking of closers, it is funny and perplexing to see the Pads weakness so far has been the bullpen, an area of strength over the past few seasons. They have Cla, Bell and an inconsistent Hoffy but between them, they should should be much better. Yeah I know their offense stinks but they have counted on superb pitching (starters and bullpen) to win.

molson 04-19-2008 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 1710643)
That's probably due to Bill James' influence. People get on him for his "non-closer theory" a few years back, but, that wasn't exactly the theory, and they didn't have a relief ace at that time. They do now.


Ya, I don't know if the Boston media ever figured out that Bill James wasn't advocating "closer by committee". They just didn't get it.

samifan24 04-19-2008 02:55 PM

Damn MLB blackout restrictions! I can't watch the Indians or Zack Greinke's start for KC because they must be on Fox Saturday somewhere...so instead I get the damn Mets game, who I can watch any time on SNY. Ridiculous.

sterlingice 04-19-2008 03:09 PM

Royals game isn't on here so I can't watch Wacky Zacky- I was just checking that myself. I think someone at Fox made a clerical error because we are getting a divisional game with the Twins/Indians rather than some east coast matchup I could care less about.

SI

henry296 04-19-2008 03:21 PM

FOX has exclusive rights for the entire Saturday afternoon block so no afternoon games will be on Extra Innings even if they are not part of the FOX package.

Chief Rum 04-19-2008 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 1710612)
He's off to a slow start, but you wouldn't be able to replace him with anything CLOSE to as good. There aren't any closers out there that get 1-2-3 every time.


Slow start my ass. You're talking to a guy who has watched probably 80% of K-Rod's career saves. Trust me, this guy is a constant heart attack in the ninth inning and has been since around 2004, when hitters figured out they could usually let the sliders go by and sit on his fastball.

This isn't a slow start. This is a career trend that has been going on for a while now.

And while I agree we wouldn't necessarily be able to replace him with someone as good, we also wouldn't have to spend at least $13 M per year on that someone, and could spend it elsewhere (contrary to popular belief, the Angels are much closer to their salary breaking point than uber-teams like the Red Sox and Yankees).

Heck, we already have that someone on staff. His name is Scott Shields and he is signed for the next three years after this, and regularly gets 1-2-3 innings (and has closed before during K-Rod's injury problems).

samifan24 04-19-2008 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1710740)
Slow start my ass. You're talking to a guy who has watched probably 80% of K-Rod's career saves. Trust me, this guy is a constant heart attack in the ninth inning and has been since around 2004, when hitters figured out they could usually let the sliders go by and sit on his fastball.

This isn't a slow start. This is a career trend that has been going on for a while now.


Hey, Halos fans, it could always be worse...you could have Joe Blowsaveski closing games for you.

Chief Rum 04-19-2008 05:45 PM

lol...touché.

Really, I know it's silly to complain about a closer as good as K-Rod, but really, he doesn't make his fans, fellow players or managers any younger with how he performs, if you know what I mean. It's like he doesn't even get interested until he puts two men on. Then he bears down. Sorry, I think if you're going to ask for Yankees-inflated Mariano Rivera money, you need to do better than that.

Cringer 04-19-2008 05:58 PM

The Astros' pitching is starting to get into their expected mid-season form, meaning they looking extra crappy on their way to beyond crappy.

Maybe Wandy Rodriques can break the bad run of late today. He is pitching at home so there is hope.

ISiddiqui 04-19-2008 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1710740)
Slow start my ass. You're talking to a guy who has watched probably 80% of K-Rod's career saves. Trust me, this guy is a constant heart attack in the ninth inning and has been since around 2004, when hitters figured out they could usually let the sliders go by and sit on his fastball.

This isn't a slow start. This is a career trend that has been going on for a while now.


So he's like Armando Benitez resurrected?

samifan24 04-19-2008 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cringer (Post 1710797)
Maybe Wandy Rodriques can break the bad run of late today. He is pitching at home so there is hope.


Didn't Wandy leave his start early tonight with a groin injury? Looks like things just got even crappier.

DaddyTorgo 04-19-2008 08:57 PM

Manny is just absolutely tearing the cover off the ball right now. He is so locked in that it's not even fair.

Cringer 04-20-2008 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifan24 (Post 1710827)
Didn't Wandy leave his start early tonight with a groin injury? Looks like things just got even crappier.


Yup, looks that way. I didn't get to see the game down here though, since our FSN splits between Rangers games and Astros games. And of course the Astros lose a low scoring game, 3-2. I love how it seems when the pitching actually does it's job and keeps the runs down the offense falls short. Could be a long season if this ends up being the norm all year.

Cringer 04-20-2008 01:18 AM

dola- I just noticed I spelled Rodriguez completely wrong earlier. I have had to spell Rodriguez about 4 times in work stuff the last week and every time I keep using a Q instead of G. I dunno..........

Bad-example 04-20-2008 11:18 AM

Grabbed this note from the end of John Shea's column in the SF Chronicle...

Quote:

Only in (some place other than) San Francisco: An independent team in Kansas City, Kan. (the T-Bones), is planning a Michael Vick "Welcome to the Neighborhood" promotion May 28, with Vick serving a 23-month sentence in nearby Leavenworth. The home team is to wear prison stripes, the visiting team orange jumpsuit tops. Spotlights, sirens, the field lined with rubber barbed wire, players entering in shackles. Granted, the team plans to raise money for local animal shelters, but do it another way. Common sense suggests this tacky event will be canceled.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SPKH108GMQ.DTL

samifan24 04-20-2008 11:24 AM

ESPN reported yesterday that the Kansas City T-Bones have already canceled it.

terpkristin 04-20-2008 12:03 PM

Blue Jays release Frank Thomas.

Color me a little surprised. Not a lot, but a little..

/tk

MikeVic 04-20-2008 12:42 PM

They talked about this on some show I watched this morning. Apparently if he gets 1000 plate appearances during his contract, he gets a third year for $10M. Considering that all he seems to be able to do now is hit the odd HR, and is slow on the bases, the Jays decided to release him. They talked about the Jays wanting more hit and runs, and Thomas "clogs up the bases."

Young Drachma 04-20-2008 02:46 PM

I'm glad, even if we had to pay him. I was opposed to the signing in the first place last year, figuring it'd have been far smarter to pay Barry Bonds $17 million for one year, versus paying Frank Thomas as much as we did for two years.

JS19 04-20-2008 05:12 PM

So, anyone think the Jays will be contacting Bonds? The guy can still hit, they need a DH, and it's not as if the Yanks and Sox are runaway favorites this yr. I never got into the whole Bonds thing,don't care if he does/doesnt play, but from a competition standpoint, trying to win a division and all, I think it would be a good move.

MikeVic 04-20-2008 05:59 PM

I think the Jays' announcers talked to someone up in the Jays' office, and they said that the fiscally-responsible thing to do would be to replace Thomas from within. Stairs will likely DH, and they'll call up Adam Lind or someone else.

But a left-handed bat was mentioned, and Bonds' name specifically, but the Jays' guy said they're not talking about him.

ISiddiqui 04-20-2008 06:31 PM

Frank Thomas is on SportsCenter now and what a classy guy! He is saying there is no bitterness and he understand the problems with the option and how the Blue Jays want to bring some youth up and how he may be interferring with that. He said he understood the business of baseball and refused to say the Jays made a mistake.

I gots all sorts of more respect for the guy.

Cringer 04-20-2008 06:33 PM

Yeah, it was the classy way to answer questions about it.

Cringer 04-20-2008 06:34 PM

Oh, and the Astros break the 3 game losing streak today with Kaz Matsui playing in his first game and making some very nice contributions against his old team. And the closer didn't blow the save thankfully.


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