+3 (I purchased WWSM and now wish I hadn't. I won't make that mistake again next year)

+3

I did it again, and now have to wait for everything that everyone else gets faster. stinky poo

I just think it's ridiculous and I'm a little steamed at SI over this. The problems that caused the need for a patch are in both versions. The problems were deemed to be severe enough to get a quick beta patch out to fix the problem. I guess they were only severe enough for markets where soccer is #1 and the idiot Americans won't even notice it. We can all wait for the regular patch.

Of course, we shouldn't be mad, because that regular patch will be released at the same time as the other guys, so it's all ok. No, it's not. The two weeks or whatever it is aren't going to kill me. I'm still playing my copy of the game, even with the closing down bug there. But I'm more than a little upset that it was deemed serious enough to fix instantly for the FM version, but not a big enough problem to deal with for the other one.

If you want to market WWSM as FM with less or delayed support, by all means do it. Then I can make my choice as to which level of support I want. I was under the impression that would be changed this year. It isn't and I'm not thrilled about it.

+5

I enjoy the game a lot and I'm more than happy to support the WWSM title on this side of the pond, but it's ridiculous that WWSM continues to get a different level of support. There's a huge market available over here in the States.........don't screw it up.

Funny, with all the talk I see here, I don't see much reason for SI to change things, at least if I were to take a cynical point of view. From what everyone's saying, they're trying to choose between two options: 1) Buy WWSM and get worse support, or 2) Buy FM and get better support. You know what option I don't see? "I'm never buying these games again." It sounds like SI is in a great position, as there are people over here in the US who are actually willing to spend almost twice as much money and possibly wait a little bit longer to get their game.

Now, I would expect SI to take a good faith approach to their American release and all, so I'm sure they will try to address this in some way, but at this point, is there really much incentive for them to change?

This is most likely where it blew up. Seriously, there are nearly a thousand Swedish teams in this game. In that case, can I swap the teams in the playable leagues and leave the unplayables alone?

FWIW, the version of the PLA that I've uploaded doesn't have the countries swapped, It uses and .edt file to move the American teams over to Sweden, so the leage is still technically Swedish, but the teams should remain American.

Oh, and I've simmed 3 seasons now with the above db with no crashes AND the teams that started with empty rosters are getting good enough players rather quickly.

That kind of arrogance has ruined countless game companies in the past. Reputation is everything.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...2622077453/p/1

Marc:

You might want to change the main thread on the patch then. Because it still says we are getting a beta patch early next week.

Posted 25 October 2007 16:37 As per yesterdays forum post, we have decided to make a beta version of the 8.01 patch available for people to try.

For those who don't know what a "beta" is, it's a test version that we would normally use internally to test the fixes that have been made.

We have decided to release this to you due to people having issues with the workaround for the closing down bug, and a couple of other long term issues that people have discovered, as well as a few compatibility issues that a few users have experienced on their machines and the Securom copy protection that is being used on the game.

We will be releasing a final version of the patch in a couple of weeks, once we're happy with it and have gone through a full test cycle internally. The final version will also include data changes.

There will be many different versions of the "beta" patch available for the different variations of the game. As these become available, the game name will be in bold lettering.

Football Manager 2008 PC boxed - http://download.sega.com/u/fm2008_pa..._betapatch.exe
Football Manager 2008 Mac boxed - http://download.sega.com/u/fm2008_pa..._betapatch.dmg
WWSM 2008 PC boxed - coming soon (likely early next week)
WWSM 2008 Mac boxed - coming soon (likely early next week)
WWSM 2008 Digital Download - coming soon (likely early next week)Futbol Manager 2008 Digital Download - coming soon (likely early next week)

The reason for them being available at different times is that the different versions all need different installers, which take quite a bit of time to build, and also need to be tested (the installer) before we can make them live. We appreciate your patience during this time, and they will all go live as soon as we can get them done.

Hastily written, *then edited by Matt - see me after class, Mr Jacobson* legal blurb - please note that, as this is a "beta" version of the patch, it is a test version and therefore not the final version. We haven't finished testing it yet, so use it at your own risk, but we expect it to be ok. Whilst we believe we've fixed the issues, We'd like to hear, of course, if you encounter further problems, so we can try and rectify them.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Neil Dejyothin, 25 October 2007 21:04

I still haven't purchased the game. I'm waiting for the patch. But, for the first time I'm actually thinking about not buying the game. I'm pretty pist off that duff comes here and says he explained it on their forums, but the main post of the patch, still has it listed we are getting a beta patch.

Noted and understood, but I would imagine that Sports Interactive can survive on FM alone. Somehow, I don't think most of the people in Europe or Asia or wherever really care if there's a WWSM release or how well it's supported. If SI were to cut off WWSM and the entire United States completely, would all the FM buyers around the world even notice the arrogance? If they did, would they care?

I know that SI would like to have us (Americans) buying their game, and I know that they try to provide us with domestic options to get their game, but at the end of the day, does SI really need us?

Actually, I agree with the first part of your post. I'm also waiting for the patch before I purchase, and I'm thinking about not buying it, too. It's not that I have anything against SI, but my enthusiasm is just slowly draining away. I honestly don't know whether I'll buy it or not. I think it really does depend on how quickly a WWSM patch gets to us.

I bought the game last week and have been playing since (digital download). And while I'm having fun playing FM again after a 2 year hiatus, I really don't think there are enough new features from the last version I had (which was FM2006) to have justified my purchase. Maybe I don't play the game deeply enough to appreciate subtle improvements, but to me it seems like basically the same game.

At this point, I'm enjoying the game enough to want to purchase it again. So you are right with the assessment.

Having said that, when any degree of dissatisfaction starts in, it's not long before you go to the level of saying screw it. When unabashed fans of the game start to get upset, it's not long before a % of them do decide it isn't worth the trouble.

That's not any kind of a threat to SI, it's just reality and business.

I would like the beta patch for one reason, the Scottish League problem with not creating fixtures after the first season. I am near the end of the first year and have not played for days because I don't want to see things get screwed up from that. All the other issues I can deal with for now, I just need that fixed to continue playing the game.

Kind of sucks not being able to play the game I want to. Next time I won't get WWSM if this is still the policy, I will order from overseas and wait a month or so. I usually wait too, this is a good reminder of why I should.

It trips me out every year how everyone says that WWSM will be better supported and patches will be released simultaneously for FM and WWSM and digdownload options... We fall for this every year for the last several and then the story changes after release and the WWSM folks still have to wait.

I have still yet to purchase this year even though I really want to play the game badly I am just fed up with the (relatively) poor support we get stateside.

In my mind the support that SI offers overall has declined over the last 2-4 years since they have tried to take on other sports simulations beyond the FM series.

I continue to have alot of respect for Marc Vaughn and Duffy (as they individually provide our members alot of one-on one support) but the end result of there companies support for the product has taken a hit over the last few years.

I blame sega. I understood their issues when they were independent guys. But, now they are with a major player so there is not really an excuse.

At least sega gave us FM on the PSP and other crappy gaming devices woohoo!!!!

I really like Marc and Duffy they are cool. In fact most of them are really cool.

I hated the first hockey release with sega when they used Softcrap. That was a terrible experience.

I think Coffee nailed my thoughts with his post.

I love the game and have absolutely nothing personal against SI or the Marcs, but next year and from here on out it is FM.

Well, in all fairness, it's an internal beta patch that they have released to the public for bug testing, etc.

Sure the FM guys get the beta patches, but everyone gets the same final patch when it is out, don't they?

Oh, and didn't Sega and SI split this year?

yup

and

yup

Neon, I have no issue with them not releasing a beta patch for WWSM. The problem was they announced it was going to come out and now they are saying it is not coming out.

I didn't know that Sega and SI split, I blame it on the residule effects of that bad marriage then.

No, Sega and SI did not split, SI and OOTP split.

Yes I also cannot change the attibute colors yet :(

I am a huge SI fanboy, and will be for the foreseeable future, but this was a bad launch. I wish they would "leak" kits or something so when I get the game it's all ready.

GoGamer has FM stateside.

I have never bought WWSM.

gogamer is stateside? huh, i thought it was elsewhere. I bought a version of CM from there years ago and will probably go back there in two years when I buy FM/WWSM again.

Irvine, CA

They have great customer service. That has been where I've always bought FM, except for when I've bought the downloadable versions of WWSM.

Everyone is absolutely spot on. WWSM has been miserable supported, made worse by the disingenuous promises of better support and more parity with FM. Even if one of the Marks came on this board and gave us an ironclad stone cold lead pipe promise that WWSM and FM would be supported equally, there is a less than zero chance I'm gonna buy WWSM next year. FM for me from here on out.

+1 even with the exchange rate.

I was FM-only until this year, this year I was feeling the financial pinch so I went WWSM, but yeah...next year FM.

Marc posted this at 10:34 am my time.





Neil posted this on the SI forum in the beta patch thread at 3:35 pm.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...753#1002050753

So we still have two conflicting reports, wonder which one is right?

Just bringing back an old post -- it seems like all these things are true, right? So is the delayed patch the only problem? I have an order in from amazon, and am wondering if I should cancel it. If it's just that I have to wait for the patch, that's okay -- I'm in no hurry.

(1) Yes, there is an editor included. It has become my dear, dear friend.
(2) I'd say 90% of the 3rd party content for FM I've ever tried with WWSM has worked fine. I know there is a definite issue with FMM, but there is a workaround. As for skins, logo packs, kits, etc., all of those work fine as long as you make sure the content goes in the right place.
(3) There is definitely an option for "English" .

Pass, if I were in your shoes, I'd definitely cancel the order and order FM from gogamer. Because we all know it is not just going to be this beta patch. The next patch, and the next one, and the data update will all be available for FM way before WWSM and the support for FM will always be a little better.

Why didn't I see this post two hours ago? I just got an e-mail that my order was shipped. I guess someone must have read my post and thought, "damn, we better ship that before he can cancel it!"

Anyway, I probably won't be able to play the game at all until Tuesday, so hopefully the patch is out by then. As for 2nd and 3rd patches, those will probably cover things so minor that I won't mind waiting.

i want to play nowww!! now now now!! i'm bored of waiting for the patch!!

*grumpy and throwing a temper tantrum*

Where do you get the FM patch anyway? I couldn't find it when I looked on SI's site.

It is in a sticky thread with Beta patch in the title in the Football Manager General Discussion Forum. I would provide a link but their forums are unresponsive at the moment for me.

Edit: Here is the thread

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/2622077453

If you own a CD copy of WWSM ONLY the beta patch is ready for you....

http://download.sega.com/u/fm2008_pa..._betapatch.exe
http://download.sega.com/u/fm2008_pa..._betapatch.dmg

If you downloaded a digital version via Boonty or D2D for WWSM or Futbol Manager on PC or Mac then these beta patches will be here tomorrow

WOOHOO!!

Thanks Marc!

PLA-semi-update

WHOO-HOO! I got a version of the PLA to work with a swap into Norway with an added bonus of making the league "Canadian" so the American soccer rules restrictions are gone as well. Norway has a playable top division (14 teams), a playable second level (16 teams) and a playable third level (4 divisions of 14 teams each) for 86 total teams. I didn't do anything other than move teams around and change country stuff as a proof-of-concept so I at least know the DB I'm working with can be manipulated.

SO - I'm gonna give the swap into Sweden one last try, and if that doesn't work I've got this to fall back on - and I can pretty it up before I make it available for upload.

Good stuff, Todd!

Nicely done Marc... Thanks for getting this out. It is very confusing when we here that there will be a beta patch - no sorry there want be a beta patch - oh by the way here is the beta patch.... But as long as we get one and only a few days after the rest of the world I am fairly happy...

This decision to release the beta patch may have just tipped me over the edge toward buying a copy this year...

Again - as I said in a earlier post I have alot of respect for you and M. Vaughn... So don't take my criticism personally please... We yanks just really want to be able to play your awesome product the same as everyone else around Europe does...

For those planning to play with PLA, will you just run that PLA league, or will you select other active leagues such as England Premier, etc... ?

Personally, I'm gonna select a bunch of other leagues to run (England, Scotland, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Brazil, and Argentina are my usual suspects).

I think I'd like it to be part of the whole world. Will the PLA be part of European competitions? Is that sort of thing customizable?

THANK GOD A PATCH BEFORE THE WEEKEND!

MY FAITH IN SI IS GROWING AGAIN!

edit: along with my wang

The issue isn't the Marc's. I think a majority of people here have a lot of respect for them. Nobody here made a personal attack on either of the two guys. We just stated a fact that was frustrating for those of us who made the decision to purchase WWSM. I don't think anyone at SI had evil intent, I just don't think they thought their decision through correctly. If the two versions are the same in terms of gameplay, bugs, etc., you can't say that an issue is so important that a beta patch will be released to fix one version and stick your finger up at anyone who purchased the other version.

As pumpy pointed out above, if anything, SI should at least take pride in the fact that most of us are just saying we'll purchase FM next year instead of WWSM. A game that isn't this good would simply be scratched off the list not to be purchased again.

I'm glad the right thing is being done. Good on SI.

yes ummm...this game is going to hugeify my wang.

Installed the patch, played a match, one of my players picked up a serious injury. I tried to view the coach reports for the player, but upon clicking the coach reports button for the player, the game crashed. I think I may wait for the final to try and continue.

Has anyone been able to run the game in windowed mode? I have tried, and it tells me I can't. My screen resolution is 1280X800.

You have to edit your shortcut target. Right click your shortcut or start menu icon and change the target to this: "C:\Program Files\Sports Interactive\Worldwide Soccer Manager 2008\wsm.exe" -small_screen

The part in bold being the key difference. Then you should be able to pick windowed mode in preferences. From there you can manually resize the window to you liking.

Edit...............nevermind, I wasn't putting the space after the wsm.exe" Thanks, I appreciate it.

Is there such thing as a "superpack"? I remember those from my CM days.

is anyone here using any 3rd party tools with '08? any recommendations?

Dost mine eyes deceive me? The WWSM beta patch build is newer than the FM one?!?!?!?

It was last year. Canada replaces whatever European country whose structure is used to make the league and then, it enters European tournies and such. Always a nice plus.

I did last year, so I imagine I'd do the same thing year too. I don't bother to play in those countries though when I have the PLA.

No patch for the download version yet though :(

Greatly appreciated, thank you! :)

Oh yeah. I tried that last year and it worked great. I simply edited Canada to be in Europe and part of UK & Ireland. Well, Canada (the country I'll use to stage the PLA when I swap with Sweden to avoid MLS rules) was seeded in the European Championship Cup, but had no matches scheduled the first year, but the teams at the top of the PLA were correctly placed in the Champions League draw (as a play-in team), VASE, and EURO cups. Plus Canada was correctly seeded in the second year.

As mentioned earlier, I have a swap with Norway that works swell. I'm gonna try Sweden one more time and then I'll be done with the database editor and can finally get to playing.

wow. after all that i didn't even make it into the regular season last night.

ended up playing Gin on Yahoo for hours.

Sigh. Sweden happens to be one of those countries that you cannot swap. I spent way too much time fiddling around to figure that out. So, my options are to use Sweden with an .edt file and live with Swedish regens OR use Canada disguised as Norway with regens that work properly.

I'm choosing Norway, so I'm going to square the edges and make it look pretty and I'll be ready to play. When I'm done, I'll put a readme in the zip file with all the changes made to the default db.

I'm kinda sad Sweden didn't work out, but I'm happy there's light at the end of the tunnel finally.

Sooooo, is the beta patch for the download version up yet?

Downloading it right now.

Just downloaded and printed out Marc's Tips and Hints and am going to read over it a few times in preparation for the real patch.

Haven't played the FM/CM series in a couple years so I am very much looking forward to diving back in.

Hmm, according to the change list the WWSM digital download patch might be more recent than the normal FM beta patch? On that change list printed out before the match engine stuff goes up to v648, on the change list I'm reading after patching it goes up to v651.

PLA2008=Done.

hxxp://rapidshare.com/files/66994627/PLA_2008.zip

see readme.txt for info

now it's time to nap

Yep! Beat ya to it -- http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&postcount=355

The peeps on the SI boards would be going nuts if they knew -- board confidence fixes, captaincy fixes, and 2 more rounds of fixes to the match engine are in the WWSM beta patch.

Wish I could just go there and pick it up. That's like a 10-15 trip from my house!

Where exactly did you find that?

I am debating about downloading WWSM versus just getting it from Amazon... I have gone both routes before and don't really recall any negatives of the download...

Before I jump in an download am I forgetting something about why I would not want to do so?

- FM Genie Scout works with it right?

I just did a search here at FOFC and it came up.

Good work, Todd.

I think I found it on the SI site.

Called Football Manager 2008 FAQ - Includes hints and tips. Seems pretty useful.

The SI forums are a nightmare to navigate, but within 3 minutes of visiting there today, I discovered that people are applying the WWSM beta patch to the download version, and now the game is asking for the CD, so they can't play the game. Urp.

Yeah I read that too and didn't install it, as a result.

I installed the beta patch for the download version and haven't had any problems.

Can you provide a link for the patch you installed...

This link worked for me

When trying to startup a new game using the PLA_2008, I get an "array out of bounds" error. I selected a bunch of playable leagues (ENG, ESP, ITA, MEX, SCO)

+1

How the hell do you register a player if he's ineligible?

And does someone have access to an English version of the manual?

Strange...I fired that bad boy up this afternoon and haven't had an issue at all.

At what precise point does the error come up?
What are all of the countries you're playing?
Can you get around it or is the error an infinite loop?

I'll take a look into it...sorry mate.

That's the one I used as well.

8 pages in... So when do the actual impressions start?

:)

Heh...no doubt.

I was able to click past the error and haven't seen any negative repurcussions since. *shrug*

SWEET!

In my experience, this typically happens when the game is trying to seed a cup competition and one of the teams has a bad value for it's "last division" or "last position." They can usually be clicked through, thank goodness.

If you notice a wonky result, let me know and I'll fix it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Same thing happened to me when I tried earlier today. I loaded England, France, Spain, Italy and the PLA.

Oh ok. I read why it happened. Thx.

Right now, all we have is the industry standard "beta-release this, earn some revenue, and fix it later" PC program. I believe most people know not to form an impression before the first official patch is released. ;)

This is what I am getting. Seeing if trying it again works. I see that the link a few posts above here has the same name, but when I started downloading it it is 50 MB bigger. I thought the download yesterday being only 28mb was odd.

Dola-

It's working now. Woohoo. Thank goodness.

Just got WWSM from Amazon today. Patched, started unemployed and ended up at TOP-Oss in Dutch first division. Woo-hoo!

As far as graphics go, SI has really screwed the pooch.

Unable to edit the default skins attributes colors.

Championship level jerseys are worse than previous years.
Cannot, no matter what I do, get the templates off in the background.

I've had the game for a week, and still don't have it ready to play yet.

Big SI fan, but really bummed out by this.

so you can't play the game because the graphics aren't editable enough?

*insert Maximum Futbol joke here*

Patch works well for digital download version. One nice tweak in the patch is the balancing of own-player evaluations. Before the patch, all players on my team were regarded by my assistance as "best player on the squad". Now there's more variability in evaluated talent level.

No, I like to have my attributes colors a certain way, and dont want the game to look like crap on my screen.

I don't think it's too much to ask.

NICE! My board just doubled my transfer budget!

Amazon has said "Carrier notified to pick up package" since Thursday evening. Don't carriers pick up packages from there all the time?