This is also not true. Either another lie, or you have not understood me at all. Either way, wolfish.

You told me you had special knowledge of game mechanics...how else would you like me to percieve that?

I'm pretty sure its a setup. I have ntn as 75% cleared based on his comments.

No, I didn't - all I ever said was that you didn't understand the game mechanics. THAT'S WHY I WAS SUSPICIOUS OF YOU. If I had *special* knowledge, I wouldn't think it suspicious that you didn't understand them, right?

Your right, you said you were "more aware." Im sorry to misspeak there...you did say you were dropping hints though, i can quote you on that...and i totally dont understand your hints, so i hope others do. Until then i guess we can just sit and here have a fun little chat.

How did the first week of recruiting go? A lot of competition?

More than I expected, but less than I found last year, and its all from the big12. So if they don't sign with me they'll just transfer over in a year or two.

lol, i envy you...even if they do sign with me, they will just transfer in a year or two :)

I was suprised...a top 30 FS got 2 offers, a top 30 SS got 7. Just interesting to see the choices other humans made. I picked the wrong QB of the two interested, and now its too late to swap. That one mistake is likely going to hurt me in a year or two pretty badly. I wish we could scout then offer in week 2 ;)

Just to clarify, i just IMd 2 players of this game for outside of the game reasons...didnt get a response from either though, sadly. Just thought id say in case they got the wrong idea.

Congrats to us townfolk for bringing LSGAY down. She slipped with her foul, Satan-driven tongue, and our stones made sure she didn't egt up again.

I am confused by the interplay between Brothers st. cronin and Blade. It seems they are quibbling about behind the scenes roles and hints that I haven't caught (not that that would be a first). I'm inclined to put them both on the liberal list, just so we have the option to discuss them with more on the line.

Anyone else find it curious that the wolves picked bulletsponge as their target?

So Bullet was a Fundie, but listened to Devil music? I hate to lose a true member of the flock, but suspect that this one may have had liberal tendencies. May god have mercy on her soul.

Also, it doesn't look like there are any updates to the list of liberals. So for now we are looking to vote on that rather than a stoning.

well I'm still alive. so that's a plus! headed home to the computer. gather bullet is dead which is a shame. more in a bit

Crew, I don't think you need to vote the dead person to the liberal list. Particularly when they show up as a Fundy.

Get in the game, Dad!

so you have NTN as 75% cleared cronin? despite the fact that between when you posted that and your earlier comment about "what did LSG mean about NTN being a good wolf the past couple of days" NTN didn't say anything? and LSG wasn't exactly a lock to be stoned at that point either...

LOL sorry VOTE BLADE TO LIBERAL LIST

had bullet on mind

Yep, my guess about that post is that there was some discussion amongst the homos about who to take down, and that something ntn said had alarmed them, so they were looking to frame him up.

I think ntn is on God's side.

One game mechanic that I'm wondering about is the ability for people to end up on the liberal list overnight - not based on something they say, but on some other action taken either by them or against them.

So far we have not seen this come into play - I guess I expected it to based on how I read the rules initially. So without LoneStarGirl's misstep, we would be playing a game with very, very limited information. That just doesn't seem like how Anxiety presented the game at the outset. Which makes me think I'm clearly missing something. Anyone have thoughts (that they are willing to share) on this that might help make a little more sense out of this?

LSG was bad with ntn in the Marvel game and IIRC correctly in one of the small games also, so that could have been what she meant. The fact that she was calling him out so early leads me to explore other options.

Not sure what to think of the cronin/blade discussion. Tend to believe it's the usual early game misunderstanding that ends up becoming more of a drama than it deserves, though it strikes me that there might be something there one way or the other. I need to go back through some of those statements.

No access at night sucks, understand that is the reason why I'm quieter than normal.

As a vanilla role I'm not sure I can help much, but I am working off the assumption that some of the night roles can investigate and if liberal tendencies are found (ie Bullet's metal records) that they could then place that person on the list. I'm also assuming a traditional seer role that could out them gays.

I have no inside knowledge about how game balance would work here, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if both sides had a night ability to put people on the Liberal list. Which is why I'm surprised that with three night phases so far (we had a Night 0) that no one has made their way onto the list yet.

Also, now that we have seen a night kill I'm definitely intrigued about what might have happened on Night 1. If there were any fireworks, both sides kept a pretty low profile.

A Night 1 conversion seems like a pretty likely result. If that is the case, there were probably 2-3 gays to start the game. I don't think it is at all likely, at this point, that there were a high number (like six) starting gays.

Exactly the sort of thing I've been wondering.

This is why I expected to see a name on the list overnight - maybe a case of me reading a little too much into the moderator text ...

This feeling of cluelessness I have right is just wonderful, I'll tell you.

I said on day 1 that I expected within a few days that the entire roster of players would be on the list. So, yeah. Anyway.

I think it odd Cronin was trying to save LSG yesterday, almost like trying to hide out in the open.

VOTE ST.CRONIN

Except, as I pointed out Lathum, it would have been impossible to save her - one vote and she would have been stoned.

At any rate, I wish I *would* end up on the liberal list, and get stoned. It might finally point some people in the right direction.

OK, coming back around to this. While I have said that I thought we would have seen a name on the "Liberal List" overnight by now, why did you think we would see two names on the list at the start of Day 2?

Also, would the names on the list have been "without any actual reason" as your vote potentially would have been on Day 1? You have also suggested earlier that you do not have any particularly meaningful abilities, so I'm really puzzled where you were headed with these comments. Suggesting two people sounds like you have a reason for the belief, but what?

This I what it looks like the final count was from last night:

Stoners
3 - LoneStarGirl - hoopsguy (232), Lathum (233), Ironhead (242)

Liberal Votes
3 - st.cronin - Chief Rum (179), Blade (252), DaddyTorgo (267 - changed stone vote)
1 - Chief Rum - path12 (185)
1 - bulletsponge - ntndeacon (182)
1 - Blade - st.cronin (183)
1 - DaddyTorgo - bulletsponge (199)
1 - ntndeacon - LoneStarGirl (205)

No Vote
Tyrith (unvoted for Chief Rum as liberal - cast no further vote)(260)
ImtheCrew
KWhit


ImtheCrew feels very under the radar to me. He did not cast a vote at all two days in a row. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt due to confusion the 1st day, but I at this point I think I really need to hear why he didn't vote.

what I MEANT cronin, was that the common way things work (as you know) is that we'll end up with a "runoff" or sorts between two different people, and try to use that to gain insight via voting records. So I had assumed that if were going to put one person on the list we'd then try to get another on there and have a "showdown" of sorts between them, and I didn't see any reason (with the added mechanic of having to get them on the list) to put a 3rd person in there to "muddy the water"

Hon, you're making the family look bad.

Color me confused.

I think the blade - cronin thig is about the only thing I have to go on at this point. They're both acting suspicious, so I'll likely place a vote on one of them if nothing else happens today.

Here a very unbased in fact guess of evil for me right now:

LSG
Cronin
Kwhit

Just stating that publicly right now so i can go back to it later and see how wrong/right i was

I dont have any evidence to back it up, but night 1 might have been a failed attack or conversion on me. Just putting that out there, as it is a possible explanation for night 1

My gut says st. cronin isn't bad (or Blade), so I won't vote for them to the list just yet. But people have been too quiet. If he weren't my husband, I would probably be all over Crew.

I doubt LSG outed a wolf when she made the ntn comment. It was too early for her to play that card. It doesn't clear him, but it moves him down my list for now. hoops, Lathum and Ironhead get passes right now because they voted to stone LSG, and it was unclear at the time if they were voting against a liberal list vote (meaning all three votes were meaningful, even though only one was needed for the stoning, as it turned out).

That leaves Kwhit, path12, DaddyTorgo and Tyrith. Although Tyrith voted for me, a good, God-fearing woman, I think he is just misguided. So I will go with the one drawing the most suspicion right now in DaddyTorgo.

VOTE LIBERAL LIST DADDYTORGO

Did you see something to lead you to believe this?

You think LSG is bad? Based on what?

And why would you suspect me?

I'm borrowing from Ironhead's list of votes from last night:


I'm guessing that the wolves looked to spread out their votes at this point. The above list does not include the "No Votes".

So, would a wolf have the courage to hide their vote on LSG? If so, then I would guess it is Lathum - would be very audacious for a newcomer (Ironhead) to make that play in their first game. If not, I'm pretty sure we'll find one on the list of three voting for Cronin yesteday.

Other option would be to pick at some of the solo/non voters, but that leaves about half of our town.

Hoops, if Lathum is a wolf, I agree he would absolutely have stoned LSG. He would have played it exactly the way he did, in my opinion.

I would assume based on the fact that the player list on page one says "them gays" next to her name.:D

your kidding, right?

casting what equates to the first vote on someone( hoops and I voted the same exact time) is hardly burying your vote.

Yeah, I forgot to put rolly eyes or something in the post.

Not kidding. I'm not particularly suspicious of you, but don't try to convince me that you would have played it any differently if you were a wolf. You'd be wasting your time.

likewise you were trying to talk people out of it.

...

Yep. Looks bad now, doesn't it. I fully expect to land on the subversive list and get stoned within a day or two - that would be the strongest play for the village.

I was wondering about the same thing. I would not be as quick to throw out the idea of a newcomer making that move. remember that wolves in general talk to each other. ANd if a newcomer was a wolf, they would probably let others take the lead on strategy decisions and follow those desicions where they lead.

No, but i wouldnt see anything if it did happen...just the way my role works. Im just saying, based on knowledge the rest of you dont have, that it is a possiblity. Nothing was going to hurt me on night one, and since we didnt have a night kill its a possibilty they attempted to kill me.

Remember though, 1 vote and LSG was dead...so it didnt matter if there were 1 or 50, anything past the first vote is off. Ill even say the first vote was, seeing as how it came after i said i was going to vote her for sure. Basically, every vote to kill LSG came after it was pretty clear she was dead. So i dont give anyone much credit for the vote. About all i learned yesterday is that cronin looks very bad(and doesnt have a better understanding of game mechanics either it appears)

You just seem to be making similar moves to cronin...in regards to information about my role last night, when you two played off each other to some extent when inquiring about it...as i said, not based on fact...just a guess for my own amusement post game.

You might put hoops in that group as well. My guess is that Kwhit and hoops are good, and understand the game much the same way that I do.

No, i dont...hoops is interacting with you, but kwhit is playing off you...like a few posts ago, when you made your LSG joke about my list...kwhit came in next, and extended your question(obviously playing off your post). It could be unintentional, could be on purpose.

Hoops is conversing with you, not playing off you...its a key difference

Blade, in regards to the LSG vote yesterday I would have felt significantly better about you if you had immediately put your vote on her after saying earlier that you planned to stone whoever was on the list. That is why I asked you about it after it took place - I wanted to see where you would go with it. In the end, you did not put your vote there. I don't see this as some kind of hanging offense, but I was surprised at the time that you did not place your vote immediately.

On Cronin, I'm obviously in agreement that looking at his statements now look bad for him. That said, I've put myself in bad positions a couple of times as a villager - much worse than I would have as a wolf with knowledge of what could transpire. I've actually got him on a "slightly more trusted" state right now.

So those are my thoughts on the two most active chat participants in the game. It's been awhile since I published a full "trust/untrust" list in a game, but I'll probably go through that exercise when I get home tonight.

Hoops, i didnt place a vote on LSG because i was still under the impression we would have a double vote(one for lynch, one for the list). So i figured if even 1 person voted LSG, my vote would be more valuable deciding who got put on the list for today. I placed my vote accordingly, and it was supported by another of cronins suspects(he thinks both DT and i are prob. wolfs) and we got him to be the top vote getter. It was after all of this that anxiety told us only one vote would count, and the list only came into play if we had no stoning.

At the time, i felt i was utilizing my vote to ensure we got favorable results in both votes(instead of chief hitting the list, like was the case at the time). It turned out to be a moot point, but thats my reasoning.

*shrug*

well i'm good. So putting me on the liberal list is a waste.

think about how I play as a wolf, it's definitely not how i'm playing this game. my one comment was explainable, barely suspicious. But if the village wants to waste it's time stoning me that's y'all's choice.

Blade's little dance personally scares the heck out of me -- this is how it goes before he pulls one of those amazing stunts he tries. I don't know. The cronin/blade mess is one of those things I don't really know about -- blade's play is hard to predict, meaning I'd lean towards siding with cronin. I would mostly disregard the cronin case yesterday -- he's made the same argument about villagers in previous games, so it wasn't out of character at all. Neither is what blade is doing...but his tactics are generally much harder for us to cope with as a wolf.

By my count, and correct me if im wrong. We have:

Liberal List:
Blade - 2(Cronin, ITC)
Cronin - 2(Blade, Lathum)
DT - 1(Chief Rum)

Oh, if you only knew...i expect quite a few people will view my play later this game as a crazy stunt as a wolf. I promise you, these feelings will likely resurface when i try to explain my situation later. I dont intend to now, but i will be stunned if most people believe my story later in the game

Blade, if I used the word "ectoplasm" would you know what I mean? Because I've gotten the idea from your posts so far that this might be applicable to your situation.

If Cronin is one of them Blade, I think I can see Kwhit as a cohort of cronin's

I'm happy with that list. Me and the two players I suspect the most. I encourage people to vote only for players on that list.

I'm bummed that there haven't been people around this afternoon when today was the first time this week I've had my normal availability.

Cronin, I'll probably take you up on your request to keep the liberal vote limited to that group unless I hear some kind of late-breaking news today. Like I mentioned yesterday, I don't view putting someone on the list as a particularly scary proposition since they are a good bet to be scanned that night - assuming we have an active seer role in the game.

Stoning? That is an entirely different scenario ...

Hoops, I disagree. If anybody is on the liberal list, somebody is getting stoned. The only way I don't get stoned if I'm on the list is if somebody else ends up on the list via night action.

I'm gonna have to cast a vote and leave here...long term having blade on the list makes the most sense to me, in case we need to get rid of him. And I'm fairly suspicious of him right now.

VOTE LIBERALIZE BLADE

I dont think so...if your referring to the game you and i first played together, when certain things occured, i dont see any correlation to that and my current situation. If you remember what i originally suggested to you for my character in marvel, as far as his powers might go, its in that general region. Its not the same, but its the same basic principle.

For now, until we have multiple people on the list, putting me on the list today is like killing me tomorrow...and the fact you would rather kill me(for being the first to support an LSG lynch) instead of cronin(who flat out told you not to lynch LSG) is simply stunning. The fact you were around last night(as evidenced by you removing your chief vote) yet finished with a no vote may be telling in itself.

And im still intrigued by the whole NTN circle of coincidences....so i have like 5 suspects id like explored...dont really think one is evil over the other, but i think i have my best chance of avoiding the list with cronin.

I'm vaguely uncomfortable to you using private information to share about yourself. If you said, "In an earlier WW game its an identical role" or somehting similar, that'd be okay. Everybody could do the research if they cared. But to say, its in an pm I sent you a while ago about this subject, that I have an issue with.

Ok, ill change what i said...its similar(again, to some extent) to a role in Horus Heresy...that better anxiety?

Anxiety, FWIW I don't recall what Blade is talking about - I went through maybe 100 different "powers" when designing that game, and I can't remember what his initial suggestion is (or whether it was even Moon Knight, which I don't think it was).

Back to the game at hand ...

Can you save us the work and describe your role in that game, please?

It wasnt my role in that game i was referring to. I dont intend to reveal it, just giving hoops a better idea(and everyone now). So no cronin, again i will not reveal my role(which in essence is what your asking).

That's fine, Blade.

I'm not asking you to reveal your role, I'm asking you to save me the work of looking up what you're obliquely referring to. If you didn't want to give anything away, you shouldn't have said anything. If you're trying to mislead me, I'm asking you to make it easier for me to understand what fiction you're writing.

Hoops asked me a question about a game we played together(or so i believe) that might help him understand my situation...i explained to him a different situation that better described it. He didnt follow, and anxiety didnt like it. So to comply with rules(i wouldnt have said anything about horus otherwise, as i dont like even narrowing it that much for everyone) i made a suitable pucic correlation so everyone could be just as confused as hoopsguy now is im sure. Me telling you what role it is similar too would give away far too much, and as such i must deny. If you think im trying to mislead you(which you have done since day one), frankly i dont care. Your not the one any of this was intended for, and i hope you have a nice day. :)

dola, just realized you said "a role" in horus heresy, instead of "my role."

So I guess I need a list of roles from that game, but never mind.

public*...not pucic

Day 3 Trust/Distrust List
1. KWhit - Sister Thelma Snider (Female) - very few posts, hard to have a real read on him yet. No vote yesterday. Suggested closeness to St. Cronin? Slight distrust.

2. Tyrith - Brother William Tyler (Male) - less engaged than I expect him to be in games. No vote yesterday. Moderate distrust.

3. ntndeacon - Sister Sandra Cotton (Female) - bad vote yesterday (for the Fundy Bulletsponge), took vote from gay LoneStarGirl. No meaningful trust or distrust yet.

4. path - Sister Mary Czinski (Female) - very typical game so far, for either side. Expect more involvement as days go by. Very slight distrust.

5. Blade - Brother James McKinnon (Male) - lightning rod as usual, suggested having a role that has weaknesses (my interpretation), combative with Cronin. Pro-stoning, but did not vote to stone LSG. Despite this, slight trust as I don't think he alludes to vulnerability as a bad guy.

6. st.cronin -Brother Leroy Czinski (Male) - gunning for Blade from early in game, also distrusts DaddyTorgo. Was opposed to stoning without proof, which looks poor in light of LSG yesterday. Moderate trust.

7. Lathum - Brother Tanner McFlannery (Male) - low profile, cast early vote to stone LSG. Knowing how he plays as a wolf, this doesn't mean much at all to me. Slight distrust.

8. hoopsguy- Brother Elijah Shepherd (Male) - I trust myself 100%.

10. Chief Rum - Sister Elizabeth Shepherd (Female) - typical Chief game so far, waiting for the long post ending in "Elementary, Watson" sometime around Night 4. No trust or distrust yet.

12. ImtheCrew - Brother Roger Shepherd (Male) - cast a vote for the dead guy this morning, very few posts, no vote yesterday. Slight trust, as gays should know who they killed, right?

13. DaddyTorgo - Brother Peter Czinski (Male) - posted that he thought two people would be put on liberal list overnight, still don't understand it. Late switch away from LSG to Cronin yesterday. Person I'm most confused by in the game at this point. Slight distrust.

14. Ironhead - Brother Richard Baker (Male) - his vote for LoneStarGirl as a newer player carries more weight with me than Lathum's because I'm not giving him credit for advanced gamesmanship on his 2nd day. A shaky 1st in trust.

I would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on the trust list - on other people as well, not just a self-defense :)

Seriously, I haven't done one of these in a game for quite some time and I'm not really sure why. I find that it helps provide clarity for later conversations and a good tool to see where my assumptions are at a given point in time.

Like after the game, to see how wrong/dumb I was, for example ...

hoops...i've had a lot of stuff going on. My head hasn't necessarily been in the game, which may be why i'm confusing. Then again, you once said that you thought you had a read on me, so i'm happy that i've managed to confuse that. I'll have to keep that in mind for the next time I'm evil.

which isn't this game FWIW

I still think cronin is suspicious. And Tyrith with his vote today and lack of a vote yesterday is raising my eyebrow.

I agree with you about ITC and Ironhead FWIW hoops.

Hoops, I don't have a real feel for most players yet. I have ntn a notch above everybody else, but that is because of assumptions, and my assumptions have not yielded much so far.

i guess if you had to pin me down, i'd say I find cronin suspicious because something in his play this game reminds of mafia when we were both evil, and how he came out playing that game early on. But it's more a "feeling" than anything I can point to. I guess it's...coming out and trying to be very clean-cut and declarative at a point in the game when everyone else is kinda...waffling and unsure.

since the liberal-list is slightly different than jail, in that there's no penalty for being on it (as far as I can tell) like there is with jail, wouldn't it make sense for all of us to put ourselves on the liberal list once we reach a certain point in the game? otherwise stoning someone becomes a 2-step process...and we could lose the game on that 2nd step. It doesn't necessarily make sense for now, but it's just a strategic option to consider for later...

and they're wrong about me

I like this idea.

Shoot, I'll go first - to hell with the liberals.

By the way, DT just jumped up quite a bit in my eyes - I think he's seeing the game the right way (for a conservative).

st.cronin is now on the liberal list.

I think your list is awefull

the fact that you are seeing the game in somewhat the same light cronin makes me think you're either a heterosexual or a very crafty and devious homosexual.

anxiety...can you confirm that there is indeed no penalty for being on the liberal list? if the entire village is on the liberal list but we erradicate the gay scourge, do we still win a complete victory??

hoops, what do you think of my reasoning?

Cronin, I don't think a wolf would willingly put themselves on the chopping block like you just did. Like I said earlier, you have been too backwards to make sense to me as a wolf. But it is only going to take one vote to kill you and we don't have someone put on the liberal list that can be set up for a potential seer tonight. I really hate this strategy - if you were going to execute it I wish you had done so right at the deadline.

I think the only possible downside I see would be something where like...the gays can only convert those already on the liberal list, so by doing this we're opening a lot more people up for conversion...but i doubt that's a game mechanic, because it would severly limit their choices of who to convert, so I feel pretty good that's not the case.

It only works if the gays are putting themselves in harms way or the remaining villagers are not particuarly bloodthirsty. Given that this is werewolf, and conventional wisdom suggests not wasting lynch opportunity (bad guys have clear cut night edge) I expect he will get that one vote.

I'm not sure if there is any point in the game where you can have enough trust within the group to pull it off.

so wait. Once someone is on the liberal list it only takes one vote to kill them? so we could have multiple people off the liberal list killed tonight?

that does wrinkle things a bit...because the wolves can take out multiple people by voting for them. But if they do, they end up standing out.

I think this strategy only works if we all trust in the lord. If everyone puts themselves on the liberal list and agrees to follow the stoning directions of one person, then anyone who deviates from that will be found out as a wolf, and it would seem to me (maybe i'm wrong though, I havn't actually done the actual math) that the odds would dictate that we'd find the wolves long before we reached 1-1 or 2-1.

Winning conditions for the Fightin' Fundies - Get rid of all Them Gays. That's it.

Well, I believe it is top vote getter on Liberal List. But it doesn't take a majority of people, just one vote is sufficient and it keeps us from getting to vote on the Liberal List (see last night).

No, plurality wins in a stone vote with multiple candidates received votes. I even mention that it my clarification last night. However, stone votes trump J'Accuse votes.

cronin wont necessarily die. How's this. We say "we believe cronin to be good. Anyone who votes for him will immediately draw the wrath of the village."

use the "liberal list" as sort of a...visible COT. Reverse it's purpose.Since we'll be able to see if the wolves vote for anyone on it. Of course it requires everyone to buy into that "well I won't vote for someone once they get moved there."