Is there some type of strategy associated with voting first? I will often vote early because I will check just before heading out to work for the day, and I want to make sure that my vote is cast incase I don't make it back. Please don't read anything into that.

If your vote was for me more because I have voted for you, then I understand. Do note that with nothing else to go on I just picked randomly. It was nothing personal.

Of course I changed my vote when I became convinced that Barkeep is the evil one among us.

Well, voting first is an easy way for someone playing an evil role to put the conversation on someone they know is innocent.

If you read through past games I am sure you will see many examples of this throughout the various games.

It can almost convince the person you are voting for that you are bad by voting for them right off the bat if they are innocent.

I'm fine with weekend play. Although I'd suggest moving the next deadline after Friday to Sunday and leaving Saturday as a free day.

Well that stinks. What is that KOTOR 1 or 2? I seem to remember Bastilla and you character having a bond in the first one and I think in the 2nd one the exile felt someone elses (Kreia?) pain.

dola

At least I know KOTOR is being used as a source for this game.

Has this board used the Cupid character in Werewolf before? is there any way to find out if the Alan was a sith as well (which is normally possible with cupid)?

Whoa.

Yeah, a Force Bond can do that. At least they didn't get the seer.

Also, if either Alan or Eagles had gotten lynched, they might've wound up with the same three-for-the-price-of-two and gotten a major role in the bargain. Small mercies.

Yeah, I recall seeing a game or two with the Cupid role.

As to whether Alan was a Sith, I have to doubt it given the nature of a Force Bond. If the student were hiding it, it would by nature weaken the bond.

That, and wouldn't something have turned up in his effects?

Not really a cupid character. The deaths would resemble what other games called 'brothers' and I believe another game called it the 'lovers'. I've seen them as good guys who had the ability to communicate with one another (PMs).

dola

In past games, I beleive you could kill one without killing the other. I think the fact that they both died is unique to the Star Wars universe.

That sucked.

Not sure that's true. I think the degree to which bonded Jedi can be killed by the other's death is affected by the strength of the bond. In this case, AlanT and EaglesFan were bonded such that the death was assured.

That doesn't mean every Force-bonded Jedi would die if their "partner" were lost.

It might also have to do with the violence of the death. Murder, as with the Sith here, might prove a fatal shock, where falling asleep in the tub and drowning wouldn't necessarily kill the other half of the bond.

True, I should have worded it better. What I meant was that in other WW games where two people were connected, you could kill one without killing the other. In the Star Wars universe you could kill one and the other could live or they both could die like you said when the bond is strong enough.

dola

At least that is how I remember the pair being used in previous WW games. It has been a while since I've seen it.

"There is no real means of defense to my strategem. I am greatly surprised that my objective to face death, to save the many, for my personal loss was thwarted. Any game of chess will be one of gains and losses, but in order to make great strides, one must accept that losses are an inevitability of war. I was hoping to be the first pawn to fall, to open the prospect of new moves and theory. But I feel even more responsible for the tragic losses of not pawns, but knights."

"I am still undaunted in my pursuit for the slayers of my colleagues. I will analyze the past few discussions, I know that my theories will be considered at a nominal regard but there is a method to my madness. That I assure as I assure you that I am just a Jedi."

I recall a game with lovers roles. It seems the two players did not know who each other was, but when one died so did the other. In that case, they could be wolf and villager or any combination of and it was determined randomly. This scenario appears to imply they could PM each other. And of course appears to be fixed Jedi to Jedi, but that may be just the way it shook out. I mean at this point everyone appears to be Jedi on the surface.

Well that was not a good night action for us.

Saldana, are you going to update the player roster on Page 1 with information on the deaths or will that be something that is integrated with each of the "Night X" results going forward? Because at the moment I don't see the list (with the dead denoted as such) anywhere. Thanks.

OK, in yesterdays vote there was an early run-up on Qwikshot, followed by a number of votes on alternate candidates. This was pretty evident when I posted the totals in Post #228 - this was about 2.5 hours before the deadline. From that point on, there was pretty steady movement away from Qwikshot.


- Post #238: Qwik posts the method to his madness (about 1 hours before deadline)
- Post #244: Gram unvotes Stkelly, votes for Superman (revealed as Jedi, 8 minutes before deadline, rationale is move towards non-voter and non-active player)
- Post #247: Saldana posts that there are 5 minutes to deadline, Qwikshot is in lead 6-4
- Post #248: SackAttack moves his vote from Qwikshot to Superman, creating a tie (agrees with Grams post as reason for doing this, 4 minutes to deadline)
- Post #249: Eaglesfan (known Jedi) asks Sack why he created a tie, that this is often not good strategy
- Post #250: Ardent moves his vote from Schmidty to Superman, breaking the tie and ultimately sealing his fate (reason - "I'll gamble", 2 minutes before deadline).


So I think that Qwikshot, Grammaticus, SackAttack, and Ardent are the people that we should be looking at more closely today. There is obviously a chance that all both Qwikshot and Superman were/are Jedi. Even if that is the case, I think there is value from looking at this voting logic. Here are the scenarios as I see them:

1.) If Qwikshot is a Sith then there would have been some movement to save him if it didn't appear to be a lost cause.
2.) If Qwikshot is a Jedi then there doesn't appear to be much reason at all for a Sith to switch their votes late (thus drawing attention) in a showdown between two Jedi.

I was urging caution yesterday on the early bandwagon because I felt that if Qwikshot was a Jedi then we were making it too easy for the Sith yesterday. But now I think there is a pretty decent chance that wasn't the case. I think that we have a lot to learn from a Qwikshot lynch today, because if he is a Jedi then the other three players listed above all move up my trusted list just a little bit.

VOTE QWIKSHOT

I'll obviously move this if someone has compelling evidence from last night, finds significant flaws with this logic, or can put forth a better plan of action.

Darn, so much for those 2 votes protecting me from the Sith. Good luck, Jedi.

Seems good to me

Vote Qwikshot

You forgot one thing Hoops...Three Jedi are already dead (not including Master Saldana).

You kill me, you just have another dead Jedi (bringing to 4) and then with night moves - you'll have another dead one (bringing to 5).

It's your poison, I know I'm just a Jedi, nothing more or less, and when I stop breathing be it by my fellow Jedi's hands or the Sith's, I'll just be one less entity in this form.

Killing me will not reveal a result, please be aware you just bring suspicion on yourself for making such a grand display of my faults.

It would be /a lot/ easier for the Sith to bandwagon today on my death because there is so much suspicion towards me, so when I die today, you will just be further in the whole in finding the true enemies.

Yet, just to prove (like last night), I will keep voting for my own demise.

Batter Up!

Qwik, I'm not convinced it is the right strategy. I just don't have a better one at the moment. And I definitely don't want to see it turn into a bandwagon vote because you are 100% correct that it won't help with voting patterns if you are revealed as a Jedi.

In the interests of fairness, as well as drawing some attention to my own voting record, here is a list of everyone who voted yesterday for a CONFIRMED Jedi.

Superman - SnDvls (167), KWhit (206), TazFTW (222), Grammaticus (244), SackAttack (248), Ardent Enthusiast (250)

Eaglesfan - Hoopsguy (174), JeeberD (208)

Alan T - Lathum (142)

What is KOTOR?

I though I was pretty up on Star Wars seeing all the movies, and I know there are some books out about live before & after the movies, but I haven't read them

We're down 3 jedi and by Saldana's post on EaglesFan it looks like there are at least two sith, seems like this follows what a lot of people were saying about having a sith leader and one follower.

I'd vote for the longer weekend, but am up to whatever.

I was in the lover's role, and I was in the twins role.

The lovers were chosen by sirfozzie I believe, and it involved me and Schmidty. Fozzie has a sense of humor. When Schmidty had to drop, Mr. Wednesday joined in. I wasn't allowed to PM either. In that game Schmidty/Wednesday were normal, and I was the seer.

In the twins role I could PM pennwisesb, but it sure didn't do much for us. That was our special role.

The twins and lovers both died in the game.

Knights of the Old Republic...the computer game series...

Frankly I am far more convinced of Lathum's quilt at this point then Qwik. I think Qwik is just role playing again. I disagree with his strategy but understand why someone would use it. Therefore I am going to vote Lathum for his suspicious behavior yesterday:
A) No explanation for his vote originally
B) When giving an explanation calling suspicion of him "preposterous"

Vote Lathum

I'm sticking with my anti-Jar Jar message. It almost worked yesterday.

Vote: Qwikshot

We are all role-playing here. Since I'm a n00b, hopefully I can see the game as through the eyes of a child. It appears to me that Qwik is trying to use reverse psychology on us through the use of reverse psychology. Since it is apparent that others have successfully used the "vote for me" gambit in the past, he is counting on that success to try and put one over on us.

Barkeep, all things being equal I don't know if we learn as much from a Lathum vote as we do from Qwikshot. Obviously, priority #1 is to get a Sith and any other considerations are secondary to that.

The fact that you and Dubb are both sniffing around Lathum has me paying more attention to him than I would otherwise. That said, I haven't seen anything from Lathum up to this point that is significantly different than his play in other games.

I need to get a vote in early and frankly I think Qwik is innocent so that left me looking for someone else. Lathum was the best suspect I could find. I feel that I am much better about finding innocents then guilty people so I would say the liklihood of Qwik being innocent is far greater than Lathum being guilty for what it's worth.

OK, I will be out all day and well past the vote. I know I am a jedi so I am automaticaly suspiscious of Barkeep and Tanglewood
(who didn't vote yesterday). By killing AlanT (the only person I voted for) it is a classic set up to make me look bad. I will have no way of arguing for myself since I will be at work for the next 15 hours so in possible self preservation

VOTE QWICKSHOT

I am not sold on Qwik being bad yet. His behavior is erratic and at some point may be reason to vote him. Since I don’t feel good about voting him and we do not have much on anyone else, I’m going with the other person that has yet to vote

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

Ah young one, this is the first time I've ever done the vote for me strategy. Frankly, if I voted for someone else would that have made me less suspicious? Of course not, if I had voted for someone else, that person would have either been implicated or ignored. Both a dangerous think since I do not know who is Sith and who is Jedi except for the fact that I am a Jedi.

Just understand that your philosophy (irregardless of the Jar-Jar speak), when I'm found innocent (even in death) it will further iimplicate you as potentially a Sith?

I'm confident in the selfvote because I have nothing left to lose, if I die, will you be closer to the truth?

Here are the votes so far, up through Post #331:

Qwikshot - Hoopsguy (318), Qwikshot (320), Cartman (327), Lathum (330)
Lathum - Barkeep (326)
Tanglewood - Grammaticus (331)

Once again Qwikshot emerges as the early leader. Going to review posts from Eagles and Alan T this morning (and Superman if he has any) to see what their early thoughts were.

OK, after thinking things through I really don't thing Qwick is a sith. I am suspiscous of Tanglewood for two reasons, his non vote and the fact he voted for me ad I know I am a Jedi. I would hate to vote for a much needed allie so I will chose what I feel is right over self preservation.

Unvote Qwick

Vote Tanglewood

Wow, still catching up, but last night's night action really hurt us. I can't believe they hit the cupid role on the first night.

A three death night, ugh. Sorry, Doc, guess you were clean. :(

Vote Qwik

If he wants to get lynched let's go ahead and lynch him...

Qwik, I understand the strategy that you are adopting ... having played in a few of these games I get that it is interesting to take new approaches just to see how the results play out. One benefit of this strategy is that you are almost a sure bet to last through the evenings because the Sith would want you to serve as a focal point for discussions the next day.

That said, if at some point it looks like you are going to be stripped of your connection to the force (or whatever the lynch mechanism is for that day) I would hope that you would provide some of your own insights rather than just adopting a strategy of 'the group voting for me and pushing for me contains Sith'.

I don't know what Lathum is talking about, but the sith didn't know they were going to be essentially killing AlanT when they killed EagleFan. I don't like his argument here.

The main focal point is that I know I'm Jedi, and the initial day one banter goes generally with multiple splinter groups accusing each other, bad blood and ultimate a lot of division until the Seer emerges and finally boldy points out the first true bad guy.

I figured with madness left in the brain, to offset and spearhead my own demise...a sacrificial lamb for the sake of my comrades.

I figured if I died and was proven Jedi (which I am) that at most there would be a definite lead point.

Alas, the Sith not only managed to kill two of us, but we also managed to kill one of our own in Superman.

If I spoke my strategy out further than that it makes it so transparent to allow for the Sith to adopt a new strategy.

So I will just say this...the options are to A) ignore me and vote for others or B) pile on and vote for me.

If you were evil, what would you do? If you were good, what would you do?

Good catch. Looks like Lathum deserves to have an eye kept on him...

Spoken like a true Texas Jedi... ;)

Basically right now Lathum is at the top of my suspect list. Qwik's self vote is obviously suspicious, but at least he's giving a reason for doing it, Lathum's argument that the sith were trying to frame him doesn't hold water in my book.

Vote Lathum

I agree with penny. In my experience as a GM and to a lesser extent as a player, the person killed is often someone the wolf has spoken out against. It's amazing to me how much it correlates when I would think pains would be taken to make it otherwise.

Sounds like a good plan to me saldana

thats MasterSaldana, thank you :D

I like that plan Saldana. At least that way the game won't come to a complete stop over the weekend...

Does this mean I can haunt this thread as the ghost of jar jar binx now?

Good luck all, I'll be watching :)

I wouldnt reccomend killing jeeber...might be your last action on FOFC now ;)

Sounds like a solid plan for the weekend...

I'm just waiting to see how long it takes you to box Schmidty... :D

I have no idea what your talking about...Innocent ol me?? ;)

Working my way through the early posts:

#114 Eagles says that he would like to be scanned by the seer, two posts after AE has asked for the same.

#130 Alan T laughs at Barkeep's request not to be scanned. I'm guessing the two of them know that they are linked, so is this an attempt to create some separation between them in the thread?

#133 Alan T speculates on the master/pupil/conversion concept, in response to "how many wolves?" question.

#141 Eagles says 4-5 Sith, again coming from a different perspective of Alan T. This seems strange if they were talking via PM, unless their goal was to come up with different answers publicly while agreeing on matters privately.

#147 Eaglesfan defends Alan T's answer in post #133 after Lathum votes for Alan T. First sign of linkage that I have seen here between them.

#170 Eagles votes for Qwik.

#186 Eagles defends himself after my vote for him. Again asks to be viewed. Both times he mentions his "heart" - was there some code in that?

#190 Alan T says he is getting bad vibes from Qwik, but doesn't want to jump on bandwagon at this time.

#196 Eagles agrees with Dubbs reasons for voting for Lathum (who voted for Alan T, who Eagles knows to be good).

#211 Eagles hopes that he won't be a night kill because he now has two votes on him (Jeebs joined in).

#225 Alan T votes for Lathum.

#249 Eagles wonders why Sack created a tie.

#253 Eagles is glad there is not a tie when voting was closed.

#254 Alan T says that Sack/AE/Gram moved late votes, look at them if Qwik is bad.

#259 Eagles says that if Superman is good then we have to lynch Qwik for more info on late vote swing.

#265 Alan T doesn't understand martyr approach of Qwik and Ardent.

#270 Alan T wonders what will happen if heat is brought early on Qwik again tomorrow, will same people rescue him?

#277 Alan T discusses voting versus no vote.

#300 Eagles wants to hear my analysis, thinks we need to vote on Qwik tomorrow to clarify vote shift (reiterates point from post #259).

#304 Saldana announces the night actions.

I initially held off on discussing info prior to Night 1 because I wanted to see if the four (Gram, Sack, AE, and Qwik) were all still with us today. It didn't make sense to me at the time to openly agree with what Eagles had already posted as it would likely influence the night actions of the Sith.

However, Eaglesfan was killed over night and Alan T was, from the Sith perspective, an added bonus.

Was he killed in an attempt to dissuade this line of thought? It seemed pretty obvious to me that we needed to understand the Day 1 vote better, which is why I put my thoughts together and voted for Qwik early this morning. I feel even more strongly about this course of action after doing the post recap.

In my case, it worked out to having been away for 2 hours due to covering a softball game for the school newspaper, and then losing another hour to a dropped connection. The two hours was unavoidable, but had I not lost my connection, Superman would have gotten my vote much earlier than he did.

I regret causing the tie, but Qwik had been contributing, Superman hadn't, and I still maintain that if we have to lose a Jedi the first day - as the odds suggested we must - that it's better to lose a silent one than a vocal contributor (even if he DOES speak in Jar Jarese).

I'll be looking over the day 2 postings in about an hour (I have an editor's board meeting at school), and figure out where I want to go with my vote from here.

Saldana - it works for me too

Hoops - so let me get it clear by voting Qwik we will hopefully know a little info about some people that moved, and thus link them together correct? Just want to be clear on you though/reasoning. I liked it in the lost game, but you were taken out too quickly.

I don't like the whole voting for yourself practice, but it could be that Qwik is the duke and he knows who to take out correct? In lost, I was the duke, but my dukness swayed others to move their votes to the second highest vote getter, but only enough to get him lynched. Since in the lost game it was 1 from me on Alan and everyone on me it forced everyone to move to Alan in that game.

I think that we will learn some things from a Qwik vote. Lathum definitely seems suspicious too, and he'd be my 2nd choice (I may even change my mind and vote for him later).

VOTE QWIKSHOT

Yeah, saldana, that schedule is fine with me as well.

Vote Qwikshot

Like AlanT's idea of what would happen if early votes are on him.

Vote Lathum

I find the argument against him much more compelling. Qwikshot is behaving in an ecentric manner in line with how he behaved last game.

I also find Cartman's reliance on the anti Jar-Jar deal on day 2 a bit odd.

You obviously do not understand my depth of hatred for Jar Jar. Did you ever see the South Park episode of "Jackovosaurs"?

AlanT's death couldn't have been a Sith frameup attempt on Lathum. How would they know as early as night 1 about a bond between the two?

This seems a little bit like trying to hide in plain sight to me. He draws attention to himself by noting his vote for AlanT, and then tries to deflect it away as "a Sith frameup." By doing it himself, rather than waiting for somebody else to do it, he may be hoping nobody thinks to question him.

Vote Lathum

SnDvls, post #318 is the long version of my logic in voting for Qwikshot, but you have captured the short version. And here is an even shorter version - I want to know if Day 1 was random or not.

There is obviously a downside if Qwik is a Jedi - we lose a friend and likely another one in the night actions. But even in this result I think we start to build trust on the three late vote changers, since I don't think that the Sith would make late vote swings from one Jedi to another Jedi. Just no reward in that attention, as far as I can see. I wouldn't put them on the cleared list, but absent any other information I would feel better about them than I would without this information.

Word.

Just for clarification...I am NOT the duke.

to your mother.

Can't touch this!

well it looks like a two pony race anyhow. I guess I see the logic in trying to bring a few people closer to cleared and losing one.

vote Qwikshot

I really don't get Qwik's ploy here. It makes zero since.

Do you think it might have something to do with becoming a "Force Ghost" like Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin, etc.???? Perhaps he knows that him becoming such a ghost would help us much more than he could as a simple Jedi.

I don't know what else it could be, since he seems very strong in his desire for death. Well, I hope this works:

Vote Qwikshot

Looks like my vote from yesterday is still catching some heat, and for good reason. He voted for an innocent yesterday after having a completely BS reason for that vote in the first place AND getting called on it. After getting called on it, he still didn't change his vote.

Then he comes in today and either tells a bold face lie, or MUCH less likely was completely confused about what happened last night(although later today he will come in and use this excuse.) Alan T's death wasn't a frame up for Lathum, since his death was kind of a "bonus" to the sith. There real target was the good doc.

As for Qwik, I'll admit his voting for himself is getting old. He may think he is helping, but if he is innocent drawing the discussion onto himself is hurting us(especially several days in a row). Most of the people voting for him are really only doing it b/c they find his play annoying. I don't think he is helping nearly as much as he is hurting.

With all of that said, I must ride out my vote from yesterday. I'm still more convinced of Lathum than Qwik.

VOTE LATHUM

Like I said earlier, it couldn't be a frame because the Sith wouldn't have known they were going to get AlanT along with their actual target (EF). This is the reason why I'm leaving my vote on Lathum. I can see the logic in the Qwik vote, but at this point I'm much more suspicious of Lathum.

penny's got me convinced...

Unvote Qwik

Vote Lathum

Nope, I get no reward for dying.

Qwik, I'm interested in what you think of Lathum? Also, do you have suspicions of anyone else in the game that you'd like to get out there in case you get lynched today? I know its only day 2, but I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Here's my problem, if I say "yes" it immediately undermines my integrity. I think you did get him in a catch but he's not around to clarify a defense.

If I say about someone else, it again, creates even more turbulence that I've apparantly caused.

As for those that find it annoying, not buying it...I hardly think what I'm doing is annoying enough to kill me without a paucity of thought.

I am a Jedi, just a regular one, a crazy one yes, but I'm not Sith or supportive of the dark side.

Well, if this is the case, I'd rather you didn't die in vain. The only way your death can help the Jedi cause would be if you disclosed any information/ideas you have?

I don’t think Qwik is Sith and I think maybe Lathum was caught in a lie or miss step none the less. That seems more beneficial than the non voter at this point.

UNVOTE TANGLEWOOD

VOTE LATHUM

Does anyone have a vote count?

In about 1 minute

Lathum-Barkeep, Pennywisesb, Desnudo, Sackattack, Dubb, JeeberD, Grammaticus (7)

Qwik-Hoops, Qwik, Cartman, KWit, McKerney, SnDvls, Schmidty (7)

Tanglewood-Lathum (1)

*KWhit, sorry

7-7-1

Qwik, Latham & Tangle

dola - penny beat me to it.

Well, that means that Lathum can move his vote off Tanglewood, onto Qwik for a divert and Qwik can move his vote off himself and onto Lathum for the trump.

dola, of course there are some non voters at this point.

5. TazFTW
7. Tanglewood
9. Kingfc22
12. StKelly52
14. Barkeep49
17. Ardent Enthusiast

I have the following who haven't voted..anyone got different?

oops correct barkeep did


5. TazFTW
7. Tanglewood
9. Kingfc22
12. StKelly52
17. Ardent Enthusiast

I have the same.

did any of the non-voters vote Lathum or Qwik yesterday?

Well, King and Tanglewood are both here, hopefully they'll vote so we'll only be waiting on 3.

I would assume that they will continue to put their vote there so that could give a good idea of the outcome.

Taz didn't vote and King voted StKelly. I'm looking into the other 3.

Crap. If either one of the guys I vote for is a Jedi then I will be looked at suspect numero uno. I'm just a normal Jedi Knight and I think voting for Qwik will be allow us to look back at all the late switches yesterday for information.

VOTE QWIKSHOT

fixed it for ya

damn, i am slow today

lol :D

My bad, Tanglewood was the one who didn't vote, Taz voted Superman.

Very interesting. Second day in a row that Qwik has jumped out to an early lead, only to have another candidate run him down.

Lathum's comment earlier has me suspecting him at this point, so I'm going to change my vote to him for now. I think Qwik might just be being his wacky self, but I don't know for sure. I honestly can't see a Sith going for a vote for himself strategy that early. Seems odd and non-Sithlike to me.

Unvote Qwikshot
Vote Lathum

Yea, but can you really defend Lathum at this point?

Yeah. I don't know what that means, though, because I think Qwik is a Jedi.

I don't buy it that he voted for himself as a Sith. Of course, I don't know why a Jedi would do that either, but it definitely brings a lot of attention onto yourself, which I would imagine a Sith would like to avoid.

I will be shocked if Qwikshot is a Sith. It's possible that he's the hidden one, but I doubt it. It's still a ridiculous move, why bother? What do you gain? Death? Possibly somewhat temporarily clearing a few other Sith?

So basically people are voting for Qwik for clarity, knowing that he's 99% a jedi. Clarity doesn't cut it for me as enough of an excuse. I don't like that argument from Hoops.

If Qwik is a Sith, this game will be over in a few days as those vote switchers will be next. Making them the four dumbest werewolves in history (old joke reference).

Whereas Lathum has been caught in some very suspicious postings and is generally setting off alarm bells all over the place. So we ignore the obvious suspect? If Qwik does get lynched and turns out to be a Jedi, at least I'll have a nice short list to look at.