Oh yea... Guard Captains are +15... :) Thanks Yoss.


Difference is that guards will NEVER get better armor. They'll wear chainmail all game. And when you are level 50 and they are 60 or 65, and you have Daedric and they have chainmail and steel, you may have a decent change at taking them out.

How was the leveling done on Morrowind?

How was it different than Oblivion?

Morrowind was done in the classical RPG style. The whole world was basically pre-set levels, and if you went to the wrong place, you'd get one-hit whacked.

On the thought of gaurds being 10 levels ahead of you. That isn't really a problem if you are dead set on killing them. I'm at level 6 and I can kill 1 gaurd without getting hit. The most I've killed at one time is 3, any more than that and I'm usually a goner. Of course all of the guard fighting was done for fun. I saved before I did it and then reloaded after the battle was done.

What I've learned? It is much easier to kill gaurds with magic(or arrows I assume) from a distance. Backpedal, you should be faster than them if you are that type of character. The main problem are the archers who will wipe the floor with you pretty quick.

On the funny side of the game, I saw two people talking late at night in my game. I felt like a big fight so I shot a fireball at one of them. The person I hit with the fireball didn't realize it was me that hit him with it and attacked the person he was talking to. The person he was talking to transformed into one of those guys that kill the king at the start of the game and he pretty well gave everyone a hard time. He killed the person that attacked him and then took out 5 gaurds before finally getting slain himself. And the best part! The gaurds never came after me, I got 5 gaurds worth of armour and equipment to sell and raided the two NPCs that were killed.

However I felt bad about what I had done, after all, I just wanted to see a big fight and see how many gaurds I could kill on my new level so I reloaded my save from right before the fight. But it really was fun while it lasted.

I don't believe that's true. IIRC, from reading the Oblivion forums, Morrowind had a similar leveling system... it just topped out at a much lower level... hence making the game that much easier.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm glad I chose to be a mage. So many usefull spells I have now from every school of magic. I just wish I could short key more than 8 spells at a time on the 360 version. I have way more usefull spells than that.

I like to shoot someone I'm fighting with spells that will weaken them against Magicka and then again with something to weaken them with whatever I'm about to cast on them. I also like to have the single projectile fire and area wide fire on hand. As well as the projectile ice and hand touch ice. I also use the hand touch and projectile shock spells as well.

Add to that candlelight, gaurd, dispel, charming spells, an invisablity spell, a spell that allows me to conjure a creature to fight with me, healing spells, spells that allow me to unlock locks and some more that I can't think of without opening the game up at the moment and 8 shortkey slots isn't nearly enough. That is probably my only complaint about the game at the moment. Other than that it is a great game.

I'm currently working my way through the mage's and fighters guilds and cleaning out dungeons like crazy. I also do the occasional odd job for random people, but I have my eye on the brotherhood who approached me and I want to become imperial champion.

Alas, the latter two will have to wait untill I finish with the mage's and fighter's guilds. And I still haven't died doing anything other than messing with the guards for fun.

I chose a Mage/Thief combo. Nail them with a 3x sneak shot with my bow, conjure a skellie, peg with arrows, when they close in finish off with a touch spell. Great fun.

Meanwhile, I nail them with a few firebolts, fireballs or ice spells, draw them too me, and finish them off with my lethal sword. The variety of viable characters is a major draw for me.

Interesting character design. I have a friend who is playing with major skills of Illiusion, Mysticism, Destruction, Conjuration, Alteration, Sneak, and Marksman. I haven't actually seen him play the game, but I assume he would be in trouble if he was surrounded, or charged and couldn't run away.

EDIT: Made this post while I was tired. Typos, etc...

I had to get up very early this morning to drop my wife off at the airport. As a result, I was able to play for several hours this morning. I entered (and closed) my first oblivion gate (as part of the main quest.) Wow - great atmosphere, scary moments in there that actually made me jump in my seat. I also died my first time in the game (and barely survived a few other fights.) I can't wait to play more tonight.

Started over for the umpteenth time, I've got a similar thief/mage build going.

Majors: Alteration, Conjuration, Illusion, Light Armor, Marksman, Sneak, Security

Fun times.

I'll tell you what gets my heart racing. I'm cantering along on my horse, heading for points unknown, when suddenly clouds well up and the sky turns blood-red.

That's some frightening shit.

Good times indeed...though I really could do with delaying the main quest, I'm all for charging in parts unknown, but after checking out the oblivion gate in Kvatch, I wasn't all too prepared for that series of sights.

Reminded me of Doom, bodies strewn about, hanging from ropes (some on fire), or the charred body that had tried to crawl out from the lava...and scamps are a pain but I'd hate to be doing these things on a higher level.

Just an addendum: I faced a draemora in this plane, on a winding stairwell, and while I was holding my own, I knew I was in some trouble, I managed to hug the wall, while he attacked me from the outside...I managed to push forward, and he stepped backwards into my attack, and fell off the side...it was cool to see him fall and his life meter dwindle...Good Times

Yeah, there's that one spot in the valley in front of the tower where I always jump out of my seat. I know it's coming, but every single time...

Thanks to the comments in the thread I poked my head into Vilverin (the Ayleid ruin right outside the end of the tutorial) for the first time yesterday. That place is huge! I did it with a low level char though, so I didn't find anything too interesting. It was a fun crawl though.


Heh, I had the exact same experience. Except my thought was "Sh*t, there goes the loot." :D And then I crept up to the edge to see if I could snipe him and fell down after... Me klutz.

I just wish I had a day to devote to playing!!! Stupid school papers - lucky for me I'm done in a month!!! Then My nights will be devoted to figuring this game out.

Its a great game - but I dont know if i'm playing it right - because I have to basically fight one thing - then try to heal myself then fight another...it gets old healing myself after each foe i meet.

You can rest to heal too.

If you level up to much with non combat skills this will happen, happened to me. Spent some time with combat, cleared out some dungeons, and things got easier.

Absorb Health is your friend.

It's also a great way to kill ghosts.

Now that I have explored my newly bought powers a little more I have a new strategy that seems to work great. Before entering a room I cast my invisability spell. I walk into the room and take a position that will allow me movement in all directions.

I then conjure my scamp who draws the attention of whoever I'm fighting. That lets me move to a corner and cast spells at my foe while he attempts to fight my scamp that is right in his face. Works pretty well, I just wish I had the lighten load spell. I'm hoping to buy it ASAP.

Also, just to add onto this, if you have more than one weapon type in your major skills, don't let one go ignored. I have Marksman and Blade, and I've been mostly using Marksman. As a result, I'm pretty terrible with a blade now (Level 7 assassin with 50+ Marksman but 31 Blade). I barely hurt anything with my sword now.

dola

Yes, Vilverin is pretty big. I've been in about a dozen caves/ruins and so far that is easily the biggest. Most of the other ones were just one level, but still pretty imprssive. It seems no matter where I go, there's caves and ruins everywhere and each one appears to be unique. Considering there has to be at least 100 of these "random dungeons" and the devs spent time designing and creating each one is pretty nice. They could have easily just create a dozen or two and just copied them a couple of times and had 100.

Here is a great Guide for Oblivion.

There no need to buy a stategy guide.

No spoilers on main web page. Just Links

hxxp://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Oblivion

I was exhausted at work today because I only slept about 3 1/2 hours last night. I just wanted to make it up to 8:00 PM as I wanted to give my 6 O'Clock dinner some time to digest. I decided to play Oblivion to help keep me up. Next thing I know 4 hours have passed, and I want to play more. However, I realize I really need sleep. I'll wait til tomorrow to try to close the Oblivion Gate I just discovered in the wild ;)

Vilverin was the one I was talking about the other day that just blew me away. That was great fun, in part because it's so unexpected. Just a random door in the countryside, but behind it lies a two-hour, four- or five-level adventure.

Has anyone else found the Hidden Lake? That was another good one. There's a small lake underground, and as you wander around, you'll come on various clues as to the area's history. Very well done.

For me, most of the other places I've stumbled onto have had three or four levels, so Vilverin wasn't bigger than some of the others by much. Some of them have areas that I haven't been able to get to yet, because I can't jump that far/high yet.

Just as I said all of the rest of them I've been have been considerably smaller (but still well done) than Vilverin, I go into a cave that's 4 levels and pretty big with a couple of really tough encounters.

I had to flee the cave too. I was up against a zombie and 2 necromancers. I surprised them, taking out the one necromancer easily, but the zombie took some getting down because I ran out of arrows and had to just use my sword. Got the zombie down, but that last necromancer kept healing herself. Eventually I couldn't put up a fight anymore, as I was drained in all 3 areas (health, magic and fatigue) so I bolted.....but I will return.

One question. Where do I buy lockpicks?

I think different weapon types have different effects on different enemies. I had a hell of a time killing a single zombie with sword and arrows. I switched to a mace/fireball combination and things went better. They burn nicely.

Dola...

There are places to buy lockpicks, but I don't remember where. I think Thieves Guild may have access to some. If I see the answer again, I'll be sure to post it here.

If you're in the Thieves Guild, you can buy em from any contact, I think. Definitely from the fences and the first contact.

So I closed my 2nd gate, that was interesting...fun with exploding mines, guard towers that shoot beams, and clannfear runts...joy joy joy.

I still love riding along the countryside and finding all these sites, with fast travel, I can go back at my own pace, but finding them is the best. Like I had to find Erthor for the Skingard Mages Guild recommendation, and was still mapping for a different quest, and went way off from my intended spot, but it was no biggie because I found so much...including this cool little priory in the middle of the woods cared for by two sisters, just strange...of course, then I knew I was off course and turned back but not before finding a doomstone, two ruins, a goblin cave, and the shrine to Sheograth.

The snowfall at the Blade's Retreat was way cool too.

I finally saved at the Imperial City after getting all recommendations, and now being a journeyman of destruction I'm doing a great deal more damage...I only wish that I could sneak attack with magic. I made it into the Mages University.

The other nice thing as while the game sucks me in, I can go at my own pace, I'm not rushing and I can save and exit out without feeling withdrawl pangs.

Sources that I know of...all the fences in the thieves guild, and the dark brotherhood merchant sells them as well.

Also, you can find a single lockpick or two in some of the general stores.

Wow, I just finished reading this thread....I was not really turned on by the "dexterous" nature of combat as I am not really into to the button mashing thing, but these stories are drawing me in more and more.....I have a feeling I will end up buying this over the weekend.

Anyone else have initial concerns about the combat model that has found it is not really that big a deal or as hard to master as they thought??

Simple solution for this, invest in sneak, blade, markman, and destruction and illusion. You will be unstoppable.

If you hit them before they see you, you are already at a great advantage. Should you want to be more of a warrior then you will have to have some dexterity. I'm now at the stage that minor annoyances fall to two shock strikes.

KEY: Draemora hate shock, Zombies hate fire.

I'm not a button masher. I was a bit worried about it. I've died a few times, but quickly reloaded. I've come close to death many times. I just finished an awesome quest where I had to find a missing famous painter. That had some tough fights in it. There are many interesting stories and many interesting quests. I also just exposed a corrupt Captain of the Guards in one of the cities. Was a very interesting stealth quest. I found the combat in Morrowind too easy. That issue has been fixed for me. My character is now part of 3 guilds as well and I've earned an advancement in one of them (fighter.) I'm also in the Mage and Blades guilds. I can't wait to play more this weekend.

Supposedly there is a guy outside the imperial city that sells lockpicks, but I've never seen him

I suck at button-mashing games mainly because I hardly play them and don't enjoy them as much as other types of games. The combat in Oblivion is arcadish in some ways, but tactical in others. It's arcadish in the sense of trying to occasionally shoot moving targets (which I rarely hit) or react to a strike by blocking (I think I get these right about half the time). It's tactical in the sense that I stop the action all the time to switch/cast spells and also to think about what I might be able to do to stay alive.

Overall, the speed of the action is quite tame, so most of the time I don't feel like I need to pause the game to get my bearings. In anything, I find the combat a bit slow because there are only eight hot keys for spells and weapons. Even in the early levels, I'm always pausing the fight to open my spellbook, set an active spell, and then resume action to cast it. The game dearly needs more hot keys and/or and on-screen spell/weapon bar. It would make the combat much more fluid.

Lastly, there is a difficulty slider if you're having trouble.

The place where I think you could run into trouble with combat would be with regards to character creation. If you pick too many fast advancing skills (sneak, restoration, light/heavy armor, alchemy, etc.) as major skills, you'll level too fast and find the combat quite difficult; many of your major combat skills will lag behind the skills that are pushing your level up, if that makes any sense. In such a case, the difficulty slider is your friend to keep going.

Thanks for the feedback guys....You pretty much locked the purchase for me...So I take it you are using a Thief/Mage combo quikshot?

Keep those quest stories coming too. :)

Those are some of my exact major skills (except alchemy). I wonder if I'll get into trouble with that build?

I have restoration and heavy armor as two of my major skills and it hasn't been too much of a problem, yet. I don't like building characters that just game the system and make it too easy. Then again, most of my other major skills are combat oriented.

I haven't had it happen to me yet, but I've heard others talking about it. It might just be people exaggerating, though.

On other boards, it seems like a lot of people are stressing out about their characters, but I wouldn't worry about it, as there are so many ways to compensate for an unbalanced character.

Personally, I think the non-combat skills have a bigger impact on combat than most people realize. I've played two characters for about 20 hours each, and the first one had alchemy for a major skill. It's simple to gain levels via alchemy, and I went from level 5 to 6 almost exclusively by sitting down and mixing up the truckload of stuff I had picked up adventuring. The combat then got tougher because my other skills hadn't improved much, but I was able to compensate by using the ton of poisons and potions that I had. Where I imagine it would become a problem is if you crank on sneak or some skill that really has little to do with toe-to-toe melee combat. If you're great at sneaking around you'll likely get lots of easy kills, but if you screw up you'll likely be at a big disadvantage in an even fight.

GB, I think you hit the problem on the head. A lot of people that complain that they are leveling too fast by alchemy seemingly aren't using those potions. If they were, I don't imagine they'd be complaining so much. It seems that players are making these specialized characters (alchemy or sneak) and not utilizing those skills in combat. Though I can imagine that mercantile and speechcraft wouldn't be much help at all in combat ;).

arrrgghhhhh
 

Well I went to get the game and didn't realize that until I got to the store.....I can't load it!!!!

I have a real high end rig, but never bothered to get a DVD-ROM with it because I didn't think I would ever really need it.....Dammit!!!

You can buy it from directdownload as well, but I'm not sure how good their service is..

Cool, I have no other option as I won't be getting a DVD-ROM just for the game :)

Thanks Eagle

Honestly purchasing a DVD drive would be the wiser choice - as the games keep getting bigger and bigger gradually everything is going to be DVD only, and it's going to be silly to have a high end system with no way to play anything high end. You can snag a dvd drive with a burner on it for about 40 bucks off newegg anymore.

No problem, BYU. I was just repeated what Isiddiqui said on page 5. It's on Direct2drive . com's website.

I hate you all. After watching this thread for awhile, seriously pondering getting the game, I just purchased it from D2D.

I hate you all. ;) :D :p

/tk

Stop making sense ;)

I am downloading new from D2D and echo Terpkristin, damn you all!! Should be about an hour.....It will be long night because after the Mrs. and I return from the Queen/Paul Rodgers concert I know I will be dying to fire this thing up....which will lead to me going to bed about 4 :)

DVD roms are so cheap now.

Look at newegg site

www.newegg.com

There's a guy on the waterfront I always steal them from, he almost always has 12 on him. I think he's part of the Thieves Guild.

Directly, no, but indirectly, mercantile should make you more profitable, which allows you to get better gear, which makes you a better fighter. Speechcraft...well, yeah. Not sure how that would help combat outside of opening up quests and information you may not get otherwise.

I'm interested to see how I feel about the game as I get to higher levels. There is quite a bit of bitching about the scaled combat and rewards in the game. As you go up in level, so do the rewards you get for combat and the levels of your opponents. For example, apparently rare armor becomes commonplace on bandits and such as you get over level 20.

Much of what they are saying I agree with in principle, but the game is a blast to play, so I'm not sure what I think. I am going to keep an eye out for mods on this topic though.

I've heard those complaints and I just don't really get them.

The beauty of the game is the free form way you can play it. You can go with the main story line, go on quests, just explore. . .

If you make everything static (ie: this temple is filled with high powered goblins, this one with easy goblins), then you make the game less free form and you force the player to play it the way you want him to.

I think it would destroy many of the things that makes the game great.

Just my opinion.

Troy,

I think you've hit on one of the reasons that I like the game so much: the go -anywhere-do-anything element of the game. However, I think there is a sacrifice involved with a game of this nature, and it might only be apparent after you get upwards in levels. In short, I wonder if there is a way to have the best of both worlds.

I was reading a thread on the subject on the official forums and I thought this post sums it up nicely:

Wouldn't that contradict his second point, that there is no 'fear or thrill' because you know what the level is?

Yes and no. I think what he's trying to get at is that unknown areas encountered in the wild should put a bit of fear into you, but some quests received could have hints as to difficulty.

Follow the wall west from the stables outside the city. He is there day or night. I actually came across him coming up from the sewers the first time I played.

I started over now that I have a grasp on how the game works, and because 1) I didn't want alchemy as a major skill (I has just picked Assassin from the list of classes) and 2) I wanted a few schools of magic as well.

Here's the class I made up:

Class: Shadow
Specialization: Stealth
Attributes: Agility, Personality
Skills: Blade, Illusion, Light Armor, Marksman, Mysticism, Security, Sneak

For awhile, I'm just going to ignore the main quest. Pretend it hasn't happened yet and just explore the country doing a side quest at a time. First stop....Vilerin. :)

I just obtained my first really good magical item in an Elven Ruin. A few minutes later I had my first crash :( Fortunately, I had saved it just before the crash. I love these various "side dungeons."

Officially add me as a fanboy, just finished the Tutorial and I am now exploring the market district. Any fears I had about the combat system were quickly allayed as I got the hang of it fairly quick, love to sneak and snipe with my Bow, close combat is a little weak right now, but I am getting better. The immersion factor is awesome and with all the NPCs speaking there is almost a MMORPG social factor to me. Getting ready to head off to deliver the Amulet of Kings, I am looking forward to experiencing all the trevails along the way there......Looks like this will be the first RPG I really get into since Fallout 2.

I found him by running all around the perimeter of the city. I forget what I was looking for, but he was hiding in a little nook, I'm pretty sure next to one of the gates. But he's definitely flush up against the wall.

Anyone find the giant undeground lake people have ben mentioning? I haven't seen it.

FINALLY!
 

Although I started this thread, today is the day I actually bought it. I hope I don't lose my life to this game and that is why I took so long before I broke down and got it. Wish me luck.

In Sideways cave near the Imperial City there is flooded region. I wouldn't call it a lake though since the water was only a foot or two deep and around the ruins of an ancient palace. Got some nice items for my level 3 character. That is the only thing I have seen so far, but I have not explored very much.

Found a mod named "Landscape LOD Texture Replacement" that takes care of the one things that really bothered me with the game.

It replaces the original 1024x1024 landscape LOD textures with improved 2048x2048 textures. Makes the distant terrain look better, no more flat looking textures!

Screenshots and download link:

hxxp://www.tessource.net/files/file.php?id=2182

Played for a few more hours tonight. I hit level 15. I'm finding some dungeons that are MUCH too hard for me. I hope it is just those dungeons are designed to be tough, and there isn't some major flaw with my character design being unveiled.

Nice! This is why I am glad I am on a PC. Thanks for the heads up.

Woot... just downloaded a bunch of mods... new BT mod, a few texture mods :). Sweet stuff.

So far I am enjoying the game. As usual, I picked out a Redguard and created a custom class for it. I couldn't decide between Spellsword or Nightblade, so I created my own. This is way better than I ever expected and I haven't even made it that far. I just got out of the sewers.

Has anyone messed with any NPC facepacks?

Also check out hxxp://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=330112 which can be combined with the LOD textures mentioned above.

ISiddiqui thanks for reminding me about the BT Mod... I was going to grab it the other day and forgot to do it.

I'm currently running the texture mods listed above, BT Mod, a colormap mod (adds color to the map), and my own mini mod that removes the "loading..." and "Autosave" messages that flash across the screen. I'm going to remove the message about your horse being tied up outside the gate every time you enter a city and change a few other messages that I don't need to see.

What is your character design? I noticed some things along this line around that level, however getting into the arcane university and getting powerfull items through the mages guild and fighter's guild quests has solved all of my problems.

I made a shield 100% spell for 9 seconds, that along with my staff of paralysis allow me to deal with any sword/axe fighters. And my strength of 52/blade of skill of 59 allow me to deal with anything. And it helps that I have an Ebony claymore with +40 fire damange to go with an elvish claymore with +35 frost damage. If all of that fails, I have an Ebony claymore with +100 disengrate weapon and armour.

Yes, I actually carry around 4 swords, as my main weapon is a Dremora claymore with no charges on it.

I'm a level 17, and heavy enchantments, powerfull created spells and my heavy reserves of Magicka(intelligence 104) allow me to deal with anything. If you are having problems and haven't been admitted to the arcane university I say do that ASAP, that will cure you of 95% of your problems. Grand Soul Gems and money will cure the other 5%(IE buying enchantments and spells)

And also, not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but you can compound the effects of certain spells, like say...feather if you have multiple spells.

I have Lighten Load and 2 sepearate created spells that allow me to carry 275 more pounds of out dungeons than I would normally be able to. Just cast them all in a row, they will compound on top of each other.

I actually found this one out by mistake as I casted a created spell when I had already casted Lighten Load. When I noticed they compounded on top of each other I made a trip to the arcane university and created another feather spell. It drastically cuts down on the amount of trips it takes me to clear out a dungeon.

Level 16 now: Strength around 75, Intelligence around 70, Endurance around 75, other attributes around 50. I'm using a plain elven long sword as my main weapon, and a silver mace as my backup weapon. I have some very nice boots of the Atronoch, but not too many other magical items yet. I haven't found any really good magical items from my mage or fighter's quests, but I did get those boots from one of the fighter's quests. I generally don't have many enchantments on myself as most of them I can't afford to cast. I have almost 200 mana. Destruction is my highest rated magic skill and it is only about 40. Blade is around 65 and my heavy armor just hit 75 which is nice for carrying more stuff. In any case, I think it was just a few tough random dungeons that I found. I'm handling most other stuff just fine.

The great thing about enchantments is they cost no mana to cast. Once you are admitted to the arcane university(which any pure brute can get admitted to as all it amounts to are a bunch of fetch quests and dungeon crawling) you can purchase enchantments for your armour and weapons. These cost no mana to either enchant the items or to use the items. You can create powerfull enchants such as making yourself stronger, faster, resistant to magic, shield, or add 40+ damange to your sword. All it takes is money and soul gems and the effect is constant so long as your item is currently equiped.

Stupid Will O'The Wisps. Anyway to heal the damage they do. I had to fight 3 of them in a fighter's guild quest and all they do is go around and damage your intelligence and willpower. Before the fight my Intelligence was 104, Willpower 94. After the fight Intelligence 98, Willpower 89.

I tried to pray at the alter but didn't get my stats back. Anyway to get these back? Because it really feels like I lost 3-4 levels by how slow my magicka builds back and the fact that I can only shoot off 1 fewer fireball than before when I have a full magicka bar.

If this can't be healed that is completely stupid and the easiest way to make the game harder. "Let's just take away about 3 or 4 levels of work from the players stats. They will love it."

try restore [attribute] potions

Yep, I make tons of restore attribute potions. I still have a very hard time killing Will O'The Wisps (my normal weapon doesn't damage them.) I didn't realize that about enchantments. I only need one more mage's recommendation to get into the Arcane University, and then that should significantly help my character. I have plenty of soul stones (but very little charge in them so far.)

I hate wisps, I generally have to sink 20 arrows into them while running backwards. They suck me dry if they get close.

My Willpower is a little bit lower and I've been wondering why, must of been the Wisps.

How do you put souls into the stones? I have a crapload of those things, but no idea how to fill them. As I'm now carrying 4 magical swords of different types, I'd like to find a way to charge them up without having to spend hundreds of gold to do it.

You have to use the spell "soul trap." I still can't cast it as I didn't specialize in mysticism :(

However, I'm only 2 points away from being able to cast it.

I think you have to cast the Soul Trap spell and then kill something while the spell is still active.

Sounds like 360 owners may get a couple mods after all.... at a cost though.


hxxp://xbox360.ign.com/articles/699/699821p1.html

Supposedly they are planning to charge for the PC mod for this too. $2.50 may sound cheap, but it's incredibly overpriced, I think - the entire game cost $50, after all. Does barding really represent an effort equivalent to 5% of the effort to produce the whole game?

Looks like a cheap stunt by Bethesda to make a quick buck. This may be the last product of theirs I buy for a long time...

Umm just don't buy them then... It's not like any of them will be or are mandatory, most games are what they are (and some suck big time for $50) when you purchase them... no option to add anything, and you've paid 50 bucks for it. I like the idea of atleast having the option, especially if you have the PC version - people have already released several excellent mods with many sure to come.

I'm not going to buy them, duh. Or anything else from Bethesda if this is their new business model.

Just because some games suck is a justification for them overcharging? Jeeze, with Maximum-Football on the market, the barding mod should be going for $25, minimum. Try not to be such a fan-boy. I love the game, but that doesn't change the fact that $2.50 is a price gouge. And if it's successful, I don't see any reason for them not to continue. Why bother making an expansion pack at, say, $30-40, when you can chop it up into 20 modules and sell em for $2.50-$5 to gullible fools? Or better yet, let's get people to sign up for a monthly fee to get the Content-Mod-Of-The-Month.

Color me disgusted.

How is this as bad as all of the Massively Multiplayer games, like WOW, where on top of your initial 50 you pay a monthly fee and then more for any expansion packs...here you buy a great game, have tons of free modding available, and the option to buy some extra offical items if your really hardcore about the game. Im sorry, this is fine to me while MMO's are crazy to me...color me disgusted with that argument

I'm watching...

Fan-boy, haha. Try not being such a whiner, you got what you paid for why are you bitching? They announced this plan months before the game was ever released, and they also already announced they are already working on an expansion... Go find something else to piss and moan about that you have no idea what youre talking about.

The majority of their small content releases will be directed towards the 360 crowd since the PC crowd will make their own content, including content Bethesda is trying to sell.

I truly hope this is only for the X-Box, but my question is this. Does this apply to user created mods as well or the official ones that Bethseda creates? I still don't think it would be a good move on their part, either way, but I can swallow it a lot easier if it didn't apply to user created mods.

If the mods are Bethseda made, I won't have too much of a problem with it because if you get 10 of them, it is very much like an expansion pack with any other game, but it all depends on how much the mods add to the game. If it just simple content, this is a bad move.

A. There are MMO's with no monthly fees.
B. MMO's have costs for servers, bandwidth, gamemasters and customer service.
C. The original dumb argument was "If you don't like it, fine, don't pay, but there's nothing wrong with it because I think it's fine." How does this argument not also then apply to MMO's?
D. Where did I say MMO's pricing model was fine?

Next strawman please.

Try not being such an argumentative ass then. All I said was - "If this is Bethesda's new business model, they've lost a customer." And your over-the-top rabid defense of them, combined with the "If you don't like it go away" crap makes you, by definition, A FAN BOY.

Oooh...I didn't know anything about the expansion. Is this info on their main site? I have to admit I knew nothing about an expansion, but I am curious to see what it is going to add.

And beyond your initial response, the other responses make you, by defintion, A MORON.

I simply said just don't buy them, you acted as if their model was pushing something onto you, as if they tacked on some extra cost you didn't know about... I never said just go away, but you'd probably do yourself a favor.


Antmiester - their plans to release OPTIONAL content at a price has nothing to do with user-created mods for the PC, it's mostly directed towards the 360 crowd that cannot create mods, and if a willing modder wanted to create the exact same content with his or her own work for free for the PC version, there would be no issue.

No word on the actual content yet, I'd imagine it's too soon.

Neverwinter Nights did the same thing and sold some mods for download by paying and available in stores too now.

Why did you have to bring up Fallout 3? When I heard that Bethseda took over the Fallout franchise, I couldn't be happier. I can't wait to see what they do with this game, because I have a feeling it will be the most immersive tactical game ever made. Ok, well at least it's that good in my own mind.

Weren't those more like expansion packs? I still get your point though, they were user made adventures that were popular and now they are being sold instead of free.

jbmagic, I stand corrected, they still call them modules. I just didn't associate them as so, because they are entirely different adventures.

Unlike every other Fallout fan on the face of the planet.

No doubt it will a very pretty, very vacant First Person game, with TEH RADIANT AI (which causes the NPCs to ignore the fact that, you know, you just stole something from them when they speak to you), an inane conversation minigame that replace actual story and dialog, and the wonderful tactical turn-based combat replaced by an abortive FPS monstrosity.

Oblivion is semi-fun first-person adventure game with some enormous flaws, but in every important way, it is a step back what is now apparent was the golden age of computer RPGs - Baldur's Gate 2, Fallout 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment. Hell, Oblivion is even a step back from many of the things Daggerfall did well. If Bethesda can't even learn from their own games, I have no faith they will keep the heart of Fallout alive. The Fallout 3 that Troika would have made would likely have been 3/4ths complete and full of bugs, but it would have had a soul.