BTW any updates on the next Solecismic release?

*whistling a tune*

you had to take a further review? thats like calling a qb who fell down at the 1 in for a touchdown.. err wait

One of the things that I find interesting about this discussion is how two groups of people seem to be arguing slightly different points--ships passing in the night and all that.

One group seems to be saying that it has no reason to believe that this game will be able to do all that it says that it can do. They point to the fact that there have been multiple missed deadlines by the release team, the fact that reputable text sim developers have indicated that this may be a bit . . . ambitious for a first game, the fact that this is a first generation product, and the fact that the lead programmer does not seem receptive to receiving constructive criticism. They point to all this and say that, based on all the available information, it is very unlikely that this game will come close to doing all that it says that it will be able to do on its feature list with a minimum of bugs.

Then there is a group of people who look at the proposed feature list, assume that everything will work perfectly and exactly how they see it in their head, and say that this game will be the best game ever.

The second group does not seem to "get" the first group's point, and the first group just does not believe the second group.

(There is, of course, a third group--people who have looked at the features that will be in the game and features that won't be in the game and have decided that the game will not meet their gaming needs. But this third group, while large and influential, does not fit into the dynamic I described above. And I think that a lot of them are also part of the first group, anyway.)

Can I have the name and addresses of the second group...I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'm looking to sell.

Thanks!

B

There are two kinds of people in this world...

"Those of you who think you know everything are really starting to annoy those of us who do."

The English teachers in my high school had this sign up in their teachers' lounge :D

Group 2 is still sitting in drydock.

Look, when the guys states that there isn't a draft (which is such a huge part of the National Football League) what else has been left out? There is just a pool of free agents to select from at the begining of each season!?

I think this guy oversold himself on the idea that being able to create a football league with 27 downs, 439 yard long fields, 88 players on the field at once, and 1,000 teams per league is a good expenditure of code time.

Well, it is his game, but it is not going to appeal to anyone that is looking for an NFL sim (like FOF).

People that want a graphical football game will play Madden.

People that want a career sim will play FOF (for PRO) and BBCF or TCY (for College).

What niche is Gluteus Maximum trying to fill or create?

The same niche that Baseball Simulator 2.000 (or was it 1.000?) tried to fill on the old NES and SNES. For people who like to play their baseball in space, or have the pitcher throw rockets, or whatever. Maximum customizability regardless of the outcome. Probably trying to please both the CFL and NFL crowd all at once. But his game looks like crap, and SkyDog's rant over there was highly amusing.

I think he's going after the old Front Page Sports Football fans that are also Arena Football and Canadian Football fans who aren't interested in career play. I'm not sure how big that niche is other than the 5 guys that post on the boards (and Bubba of course). :D

Personally, I think he's going more for the FOF crowd that might want a little more eye-candy than text games traditionally deliver (say what you want about Madden, but I seriously doubt any small-time developer can match EA Sports in the graphics department).

Of course, not including options like a college draft for a career league and deep sortable stats (if comments about this are accurate) were probably a very poor design choices on his side and will lose some potential customers who otherwise might have tried out this game.

Technically, FPS WAS the first career sim.

I don't think he's going after the FOF crowd considering how insulting he's been about text sims in general. I truly think he's going after that group of people with fond memories of Front Page Sports Football. Kind of like everyone who always clamors for an X-COM remake with better graphics, he's doing a FPS FB95 remake with better graphics.

I think there were ones before that, although not nearly as popular. I know Head Coach came out several years earlier and had "career play". In any case, I was saying the group he was going after were fans of the series not interested in career play...not that the series didn't have career play.

This was posted by David Winter on his forums:

"Yes, I contacted 3 or 4 other groups. None of them was interested mostly because of ownership issues. There were no technical problems with our discussions. It was all doable as far as making it work technically. It came down to ownership. Basically these groups wanted to put Maximum-Footballs graphics system on their game and call it "Their Game - 3D" or somesuch. Where as I was simply looking for a Manager Mode black box to plug into my project.

Anyway, that obviously didn't work. Heck I was even willing to work out a deal that would allow our two projects to simply use the same database schema. You'd have to buy two games, but they could talk to each other. Each would give you things the other couldn't and they would work seamlessly together. They didn't like that either. They all pretty much said that because my game was graphical and used 3D game play and it's what would drive the sales, they were concerned their game would be look on as simply an add-on pack.

But as far as I know, none of the titles I was looking at is even around anymore. And I know that some of the key developers of those titles have gone onto bigger things."

(3 or 4 groups being Jim, Arlie and others)

Wondering if how he described it and their reasons for declining are accurate (I highly suspect they are not).

It also looks like he was trying to get someone else to do the hard work for him...

dola,

Even if the game turned out to be something I might like, I probably wouldn't buy now. His attitude towards sports sims and their developers is just flat out condescending.

That's neat. The sense I get from this post is collaboration was made difficult because his idea just had so much freakin' awesome in it that other developers were terrified that they, much like the ill-fated Icarus, would crash into the sea and die from having had the hubris to fly too close to the fiery sun that is Maximum Football.

That should be nominated for best post of the year. :D

:D

Sarcasm. The Other White Meat.

So, I was feeling a bit down today (tough day at work and all) and decided I'd get a pick-me-up by reading the Maximum Football forums a little bit. (This thread is good for a few yuks on each viewing as well, I admit)

Anyway, I noticed this tidbit over there, and just couldn't help but quite literally laugh out loud:


Oh, that is fucking RICH! I feel so much better!



Well, anyway, I found another item in the same thread that wrapped up the discussion for me prety well:


Affirmative, message received, over and out.

I remember wanting that game SOO much for SOO long, then finally getting it, watching the guy spin in circles for a while, and never playing it again. Good times. Way better than the TYCO Hot Lyxx Guitar.

havn't seen this in this thread yet. classic druez post from the matrix forums.

druez

He probably has a point there about them lying about the extra year being merely to add career play, and of course I *love* the Canadian Football comment. :p

hehe...i miss some of his stuff around here.

i think after reading that MF forum thread I wouldn't pay Winters any of my money even if he was making the absolute best football sim out there. The fact that he basically trashed jim/arlie/gary and belittled their games (when they actually have games on the market as opposed to "WinterValley Software") completely killed even the infitesimal chance that i might support his game.

druez
Matrix Trooper



Posts: 36
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Druez, you were completely out of line in your comments. Just because this is the internet doesn't mean you are permitted to insult anyone you like. Whether you would have designed a game differently or not, your rude comments are completely unacceptable. I think it's commendable that David replied to you at all. In the future, find better manners that are within our board rules or we will ask you to leave.

To everyone else...

We will be putting together more info to explain the features and benefits of this title and releasing it here through press releases and the M-F game page over the next two weeks.

With that said, career play in a game is a general term and as with many other such terms can be extrapolated based on each person's understanding. We will make sure to make the features clear before M-F is released for sale. In the meantime, please feel free to ask questions, but realize that while this may not be the game each of you would personally design, it has a lot of powerful features and options and can do some things that no other title on the market can do. At the same time, there are things that other titles on the market will do better than M-F. Rather than saying "it's not this" or "it's not that", we just ask you to read and judge it on its own features and merits.

Regards,

- Erik

Thanks for the tip Erik. Just because it is the Internet doesn't mean you have the right to lie to your customers about your product, or jerk us off for the last year. Actually whether it is on the internet or in person, you actually have the right to insult people, especially when you are just calling them on BS.

Throw in the acronym EULA and that looks like something from this board. :D

This thread might be my favorite - EVER. :)

I agree with Bee, I think this game was going after the FPS crowd.

The fact that he keeps using that phrase over and over just makes it oh so funny.

Damn it Jim, you keep dropping hints at your next game and you just won't tell us what you're planning. Just tell us and stop jerking us off!

I explained exactly what I'm working on right now, sabotai. And I assure you, at no time have my hands ever been near the genital areas of any of my customers.

This Winter guy didn't contact me, as far as I know. I did get a rather odd proposal last year from someone who said he wanted to create a CFL sim, but I didn't turn him down. I just asked for a business plan, figuring he wasn't serious and would go away forever (which he did). The name wasn't Winter, though.

Given the way he worded that long comment, I'm pretty sure I know how these discussions went. He made it clear that he considers this career stuff an afterthought. I'm sure there's just no way one of us could justify the extra work financially.

i'm fairly certain sab was being sarcastic Jim.


Oh what...you didn't like my idea for a CFL sim all of a sudden? But there's such a HUGE market for it!!

I know Erik, and I have a lot of trouble believing he's been intentionally dishonest about a game's status. I get the feeling that, up until fairly recently, Matrix wasn't getting any more accurate information about the true state of the game's development than the rest of us were.

Those who like Neil Diamond and those who don't....

You know what? Buy it, don't buy it, who gives a shit? Just shut up about it. And who is jerking you off? If you're not satisfied with the progress of the game then don't go to the website, don't read about it, just forget it. Seven pages of posts ranting about this game is ridiculous. For Christ sakes people move the hell on.

this post I like

Did someone call the waaahmbulance?

No! We do not have this choice. Lets throw firebombs on the Canadian embassy!

Chuck Norris endorses Maximum Football.

Now none of that, I in no way made fun of Mohammed in my post.

So says the gentleman from Canada.

Yes, and that has what to do with anything?

this is not going to help. now you made this thread get a lot longer. :)

Which guy are you? The one slobbering over the screenshots or the dude that's making all the uniforms?

Neither, I don't give a crap either way about this game and didn't even know about it until I started reading this thread. But watching the hysteria it is causing over here is damned funny.

What kind of computer fails to use "10" instead of two ?

Damnit! You're right...what have I done?

I'd hardly say that there's "hysteria" in here, unless you are counting "hysterical laughter" in the total. Ridicule, yes. Tons of that. Hysteria? Eh, no.

Ok perhaps hysteria was the wrong word. Obsession may be better.

A Maximum computer?

Oooh I want one with eighty USB ports, an edible keyboard, and a dual-purpose hamster cage/monitor.

No, no USB ports. No upgrading allowed. But it does come with a 623-key keyboard.

Am I the only that likes the idea of a rookie free agent pool in place of a draft? Takes managing the salary to a different level. Oh, and the NFL draft goes against all the principles of capitalism... ;)

Yeah, but it'll cost $6,289.74. Canadian.

And it'll be released later this year.
Or next year.
Or maybe the next year.
Or ...

Actually, it would have been released one year ago today, but due to heavy customer input, they ended up redesigning the outer case so it would look ultra kewl!

I thought it was because they were changing the hamster cage/monitor to handle a whole family of hamsters, rather than just one.

Does it even have a financial component?

it's coming, it's coming. geez settle down.

If you feel that strongly, then perhaps you should take your own advice and ..."don't go to the website, don't read about it, just forget it." Really if it bothers you then "For Christ sakes people move the hell on."

:D

I think there's a field in the database for financials...I believe entitled "fill in the blank". You can adjust it however you wish. Really adds flexibility to the career play. :D

This is probably the first game I've ever been tempted to buy just to be able to bash on it. Does that make me a bad person? ... or is this the genius behind his design philosophy?

From what I understood, it's not a rookie free agent pool. It's a draft comprising all the rookies plus all the non-rookie free agents. Then again, if there's no financial component, maybe there's no non-rookie free agents, either.

I would like to see what you've described in the NFL or a text sim, but it doesn't seem like what's in this game. Granted, I've only skimmed this thread.

For the record, before this one, my only post in this thread had been about how lame those old "electronic football" vibrating board games were, so I hadn't been "obsessing" about the game. However, I know cthomer already volunteered, but I think it would be great fun to be the FOFC guinea pig for this game, and I want the spot behind him, in case he bows out!

Great, now they'll have to add that. There goes another year or two.

That's my understanding as well. What I don't get is IF there's no contract negotiations, how does the game determine length of contract and when/if a player is a free agent?

Every year all the free agents goes into the "draft" and then some new players are thrown in as well. When you draft someone, does he automatically sign for X number of years? Just seems weird to me.

Remember, the game is flexible. That's the masthead selling point here.

So, you get two options how to determine these things -- the game currently comes with a hat, or wait for M-F2, where you can link to a random number generator.

The hat might delay the game by another year...and of course, you'll have to provide your own numbers to put in it. :D

I'd guess it's like FBPro, where the players stay on your team until you cut them or they retire. So the free agents would just be the spares who were cut.. But I have no basis for that, just a straight up guess.

That's probably right, although I liked the hat idea better.

......Are the above posts taking my screen name in vain? Oh, never mind.....just wondering do you think we'll ever see the following topic:
"Alright boyz, it's the Maximum Football First Impressions thread!"????? :)

We did for Baseball Mogul 2006 :)

Not sure we'll see that again. ;)

Guys, calm down or you will get mental hernias from all the huffing and puffing!!!


First of all, from what I read over at the Matrix forum and the faq i am understanding this thing is gonna be a "football" simulator NOT an "NFL" simulator. If Dave said it was nfl or cfl based then yes all the concerns brought up about salary cap ,draft,finances etc are very valid.But he didn't. I persoally think that finances are very important but it's his call. It's his damn game afterall. Maybe someone will get a plugin financial simulator out there.

If I want "NFL" I will play FOF or TPF even though stats wise TPF blows for me as it is not "NFL realistic". I an intrigued by the possibilities that MF gives me. For shits and giggles I might enjoy making a 50 team semi-pro league based in Uzbekistan if I want. Not that I want to do that but at least I should be able to do that whereas in FOF or TPF I can't.


Yeah, dave's attitude and defensiveness are atrocious, but he is defending his thing from being flamed. I seem to recall one individual here who defended his reasons for doing funky things in a slighty less atrocious manner but still came about as a stuffed shirt.

I might be your guinea pig for this thing but will wait till it's been out and patched since I am sure it will need at least 3-4 patched to run corretly

'nuff said.

So another 15-20 years ....

These quotes really make it sound like a release will be coming at annnnnyyyy minute:

edit: both of those posts are from yesterday

Yep...this sounds promising:



Oh...nevermind that's from 2004. :D

It will be the perfect present for my retirement party then!

A preview of sorts for the game. If this doesn't get you fired up and excited about the game's release, nothing will!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm...39&mpage=1&key=��


In his first game ever:

And then in game 2:

Holy cow!!!!! This guy must be a hell of a player! In the first 2 games he ever played he had:
Game 1: 350 rushing yards.
Game 2: 407 passing yards.

At least we know the sim engine is solid!

:rolleyes:

My favorite quote from that article:

Wow, he sounds really excited about the game. Who wrote this article...

Joseph Lieberman
Public Relations and Marketing Manager

Guess what he gets paid to do.

"while the animation isn't going to knock anyone's socks off"

great quote from the public relations and marketing manager....

I caught that too. It must be really bad for him to say that.

well, at least he is honest

BTW, what is an "apatheric" lurker? Did you mean to say "apathetic" or is "apatheric" some word I've never heard before?

I think Apathetic lurker has said before that it was supposed to be "apathetic" but he couldn't generate the enthusiasm to correct the handle.

:)

:D

I like the PR guys follow up quote even better:


Umm....you can't even get 100 yards passing when you run the team? That's not good.

Big deal, so the poor bastard has J.P. Losman at QB, leave him alone.

Yup, completely apathetic to the whole concept of fixin something that should be fixed, one day, maybe another day or next year


Ive been here for about 5 yrs as AP and before as phatguy and only have 100 or so posts. maybe time to become PhatlazyLurker

maybe another day as apathy has set in tonight, just like last night and the night before...........

MaxFB has the possibility to become the greatest semi-pro football simulator in the history of pc sports titles

:confused:

Read the whole sentence U-tep. There is a particular conjunction involved.

Ah, so five years combined? I was thinking that the five years didn't include his "phatguy" time...

Reading it, I can see how you would think that it was 5 years as AP. That is how it reads to me as well.

Yes, it's written poorly, but it makes no sense that way.

Thus the :confused: smilie...

Your confusion was almost worth a post.

You guys are ruining this thread. Quit it.


More hilarity, please.

Maximum Football.. geesh. It should be MaxiPad Football. Oh snap!