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-   -   It's Gone! 2004-2006 NHL Offseason and Lockout Thread (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=26452)

MrIllini 07-01-2004 10:46 AM

the Blues did not QO Demitra

great move Larry, you ballbag

Honolulu_Blue 07-01-2004 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIllini
the Blues did not QO Demitra

great move Larry, you ballbag


The Blues' hands were tied. With Tkachuck ($9 million?) and Weight ($8 million), I don't think they could afford another mega-salaried forward. Especially with Pronger making the money he will make. Those three players alone will account for around $27 million next year.

MrIllini 07-01-2004 11:42 AM

I'd have rather seen them cut bait with Tkachuk

or at least QO the guy then move him

Draft Dodger 07-01-2004 05:44 PM

Demitra would look nice in an Avs uniform...

MrIllini 07-01-2004 09:01 PM

Lacroix ain't that smooth

Draft Dodger 07-01-2004 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIllini
Lacroix ain't that smooth


Lacroix is one of the smoothest GMs out there.

bbor 07-01-2004 10:19 PM

He must be...he traded his own son and is still married :D

MrIllini 07-02-2004 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger
Lacroix is one of the smoothest GMs out there.


well I tell you what, if he signs Demitra, we'll see ;)

but I'll bet ya it doesn't happen

Maple Leafs 07-02-2004 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIllini
or at least QO the guy then move him

I doubt you'd be able to to trade him at $6.5M. Not without picking up a chunk of his salary, at least.

MrIllini 07-02-2004 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs
I doubt you'd be able to to trade him at $6.5M. Not without picking up a chunk of his salary, at least.


I'd rather pick up a couple mil and get some picks/prospects out of the deal than just watch him walk *shurg*

guess it's still possible he comes back for less, but I reckon he probably feels pretty slighted at this point

Karim 07-02-2004 03:35 PM

Flames sign Simon (yes!) to a one or two year deal (still unclear) at around $1.6 million.

They also signed Byron Ritchie to a 3-year deal @ $500k/year. The key is a one-way contract that Ritchie wanted. He's from BC and played junior in Lethbridge, putting up great numbers but could never translate it into the NHL. Good 3rd/4th line depth signing for Calgary.

Rumour is Conroy to Atl for $9-$10 million/3 years...

Draft Dodger 07-02-2004 03:50 PM

sorry Leafs fans, Barnaby goes to Chicago instead. :)
Chicago also signs Curtis Brown.

the Avs pick up a couple of nice checking line players - Ian Lapperiere and Antti Laaksonen. Didn't realize Lapperriere had been around so long - looks like he was once part of a trade involving Jari Kurri...

Karim 07-05-2004 01:57 AM

I just finished reading an article about Joe Thornton asking for a trade being upset about management's lack of support during the Montreal series.

Apparently Keenan has offered Bouwmeester, Weiss and Horton. I think if this is true, (and I have my doubts), Boston would be foolish to pass up on a deal like this.

Draft Dodger 07-05-2004 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karim
I just finished reading an article about Joe Thornton asking for a trade being upset about management's lack of support during the Montreal series.

Apparently Keenan has offered Bouwmeester, Weiss and Horton. I think if this is true, (and I have my doubts), Boston would be foolish to pass up on a deal like this.


link?

MrIllini 07-05-2004 08:41 AM

lappy's a good scrapper DD

Coder 07-05-2004 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger
link?



http://nypost.com/sports/24428.htm

It's merely Larry Brooks theorizing. He's suggesting that Keenan would love to get Thornton back and would be willing to part with Bouwmeester to get him.. crock if you ask me.

MrIllini 07-05-2004 10:07 AM

on a related note, Guns 'N Roses is the best band of all time

bbor 07-05-2004 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karim
I just finished reading an article about Joe Thornton asking for a trade being upset about management's lack of support during the Montreal series.

Apparently Keenan has offered Bouwmeester, Weiss and Horton. I think if this is true, (and I have my doubts), Boston would be foolish to pass up on a deal like this.



If Keenan offered me this deal i would'nt let him off the phone until i got the confirmation fax:D

Draft Dodger 07-05-2004 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coder
http://nypost.com/sports/24428.htm

It's merely Larry Brooks theorizing. He's suggesting that Keenan would love to get Thornton back and would be willing to part with Bouwmeester to get him.. crock if you ask me.


yep - you pretty much lose me at the "Larry Brooks" part.
he's a perfect fit for the NY Post

Maple Leafs 07-05-2004 12:58 PM

OK, after thinking about it over the weekend, I have a plan to avoid a lockout.

A few assumptions:
- Let's assume Bettman is being honest when he says he's not trying to drive salaries down, he just wants "cost certainty" that's tied to revenues
- Let's also assume Goodenow is being honest when he says he just wants to let "the market" determine salaries

(Obviously these are big assumptions. If one or both guys are just blowing smoke with their stances, then this whole thing is a waste of time and the lockout will last until the union or the owners are completely broken and powerless.)

- Let's finally assume that once you get the cap issue ironed out, the other smaller stuff (rule changes, draft bonuses, etc) can be hammered out in some fair fashion.

For sake of argument, let's assume all of these to be true. If they are, here's my Four Point plan to save the NHL.

Step 1: Create a hard salary cap, based on total revenue for each year. Yes, I know, the plan is already dead because Goodenow will never accept a cap. But stay with me. We forget about Bettman's ludicrous $31M cap, which would effectively cut player salaries league-wide by almost a half-billion dollars. Bettman just wants cost certainty, right? So we give it to him: we set the salary cap at 70% of league revenue, split evenly among the teams.

Current estimates put league revenue at a shade under $2B, so if you do the math you wind up with a salary cap of $45M per team. The owners get their cost certainty, and the players can't really complain too loudly about the 70% figure, since it's significantly higher than any other league. So far so good.

Step 2: Create a salary floor, equal to the salary cap minus $10M. Since the salary cap at the start would be $45M, the floor is $35M. No team may spend less than $35M on salaries. After all, fair is fair. If Detroit and Toronto won't be able to spend $60M every year, no sense letting Minnesota spend $20M.

So if every team spends the full $45M, total salaries will be about $1.35B, which is slightly higher than what it was last year. But Bettman can't complain, because he gets his cost certainty, right? And if all the teams decide to stick to the $35M floor, salaries drop to slightly above $1B -- a significant drop. But Goodenow can't complain, since that would just be the "free market" at work, right?

Step 3: You can't really have a hard cap with guaranteed contracts. So, we pass a new rule: at any time in the life of a contract, a team can cut a player. To do so, they pay him a total equal to one-half of the average yearly salary left on his deal. So if the Sens decide Daniel Alfredsson isn't worth the 5-year $25M deal they gave him, they can cut him at any time by writing him a check for $2.5M (half of an average $5M salary). If they do, he becomes an unrestricted free agent and can sign anywhere he wants.

You'd need some sort of rule here to limit signing bonuses to keep the players from demanding their entire contracts up front, but otherwise this seems reasonably fair to both sides.

Finally, the one that makes it all work...

Step 4: We've asked the players to make huge concession so far. We've made them accept the salary cap they say they never will, and we're taking away their guaranteed contracts. We have to give them something back, and we do: All players are now eligible for unrestricted free agency after five full seasons.

That's right, players as young as 23 years old will be able to become UFAs. This brings hockey roughly into line with other sports -- baseball is six years, basketball three, etc. Yes, that means teams won't be able to draft a guy and hold his rights for 13+ years anymore. Yes, it means guys like Heatley and Kovalchuk could be free agents and go sign with Detroit or New York in a few years. But if you want to make a deal, you have to offer something significant to the players. If you want a cap like the other sports, it's only fair to have FA like the other sports.

So there you have it. A mandatory payroll of $35-$45M, no more guaranteed contracts, and accelerated free agency. Game on!

Chief Rum 07-05-2004 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs
OK, after thinking about it over the weekend, I have a plan to avoid a lockout.

A few assumptions:
- Let's assume Bettman is being honest when he says he's not trying to drive salaries down, he just wants "cost certainty" that's tied to revenues
- Let's also assume Goodenow is being honest when he says he just wants to let "the market" determine salaries

(Obviously these are big assumptions. If one or both guys are just blowing smoke with their stances, then this whole thing is a waste of time and the lockout will last until the union or the owners are completely broken and powerless.)

- Let's finally assume that once you get the cap issue ironed out, the other smaller stuff (rule changes, draft bonuses, etc) can be hammered out in some fair fashion.

For sake of argument, let's assume all of these to be true. If they are, here's my Four Point plan to save the NHL.

Step 1: Create a hard salary cap, based on total revenue for each year. Yes, I know, the plan is already dead because Goodenow will never accept a cap. But stay with me. We forget about Bettman's ludicrous $31M cap, which would effectively cut player salaries league-wide by almost a half-billion dollars. Bettman just wants cost certainty, right? So we give it to him: we set the salary cap at 70% of league revenue, split evenly among the teams.

Current estimates put league revenue at a shade under $2B, so if you do the math you wind up with a salary cap of $45M per team. The owners get their cost certainty, and the players can't really complain too loudly about the 70% figure, since it's significantly higher than any other league. So far so good.

Step 2: Create a salary floor, equal to the salary cap minus $10M. Since the salary cap at the start would be $45M, the floor is $35M. No team may spend less than $35M on salaries. After all, fair is fair. If Detroit and Toronto won't be able to spend $60M every year, no sense letting Minnesota spend $20M.

So if every team spends the full $45M, total salaries will be about $1.35B, which is slightly higher than what it was last year. But Bettman can't complain, because he gets his cost certainty, right? And if all the teams decide to stick to the $35M floor, salaries drop to slightly above $1B -- a significant drop. But Goodenow can't complain, since that would just be the "free market" at work, right?

Step 3: You can't really have a hard cap with guaranteed contracts. So, we pass a new rule: at any time in the life of a contract, a team can cut a player. To do so, they pay him a total equal to one-half of the average yearly salary left on his deal. So if the Sens decide Daniel Alfredsson isn't worth the 5-year $25M deal they gave him, they can cut him at any time by writing him a check for $2.5M (half of an average $5M salary). If they do, he becomes an unrestricted free agent and can sign anywhere he wants.

You'd need some sort of rule here to limit signing bonuses to keep the players from demanding their entire contracts up front, but otherwise this seems reasonably fair to both sides.

Finally, the one that makes it all work...

Step 4: We've asked the players to make huge concession so far. We've made them accept the salary cap they say they never will, and we're taking away their guaranteed contracts. We have to give them something back, and we do: All players are now eligible for unrestricted free agency after five full seasons.

That's right, players as young as 23 years old will be able to become UFAs. This brings hockey roughly into line with other sports -- baseball is six years, basketball three, etc. Yes, that means teams won't be able to draft a guy and hold his rights for 13+ years anymore. Yes, it means guys like Heatley and Kovalchuk could be free agents and go sign with Detroit or New York in a few years. But if you want to make a deal, you have to offer something significant to the players. If you want a cap like the other sports, it's only fair to have FA like the other sports.

So there you have it. A mandatory payroll of $35-$45M, no more guaranteed contracts, and accelerated free agency. Game on!


My thoughts...I realize you wrote all four points to work with each other here, so forgive me if addressing them individually ruins that.

Point 1: I like the concept of a hard cap to a point, but exceptions need to be designed into it for emergencies, such as those caused by injury. The problem there, of course, is at one point do those exceptions become essentially loopholes to get more players? To institue that plan, I think you would have to come up with something like exceptions, and that could be an iffy situation.

But that's just a quibble. My main issue with the hard cap in Point #1 is that it's too high. Yes, I know that's key to the union accepting it, but 70% is just too much of a cost. Remember, not every cost is salary, so holding salary levels at 70% of average revenue only limits one cost, but might also ensure that many, if not most teams, would not be able to make a profit. I think 65% is a much more comfortable level for this, although even that isn't going to help some teams.

Also, does your salary cap figure take into account the new TV deal? Next year's league revenue might be significantly less than this year's.

Like the NBA, salary cap issues in trades will also become a significant factor and need a whole new set of rules (not that I don't think all the lawyers in this mess couldn't devise them).

2) I like the concept of a minimum cap, but we run into the same issues that were suggested when this was thrown out in baseball. Some players will be getting ridiculously inflated contracts they don't deserve, just so a team can reach the minimum cap. It's throwing money away and is just very inefficient. It's also not the free market the union wants. They won't complain about a player making more money, of course, but if better players are out there working for less money than they should, because a team committed resources wastefully to a lesser player, that could cause unrest as well.

But my main issue is that I think setting it so high ($35 M) does two things. The first is, that teams will be forced to pay that much, and I believe there are teams for which that, plus the associated costs of running the club, end up still being a losing venture for them. And this time it would be guaranteed to be a losing venture. The second is that such a tight salary cap range (just $10 M from $35 M to $45 M) will create way too much parity. That's a lesser problem to me as I don't mind the ever changing NFL, but I know it will matter to others, and I also think the range suggested here is even much tighter than the NFL and will be even more volatile on a year-to-year basis.

3) I have no real issue with #3, except I don't see how the union will accept that their players can have multimillion dollar contracts voided for what amounts to a pittance, particularly early in a contract. I think a system for doing this will need to be put in place, with constraints that make taking this route a more iffy proposition for the club. Perhaps the half of a year's salary needs to be raised to a more significant value of the remaining contract (a precentage of the net worth of the remaining contract, for instance), or chnages to the cap a team can run would have to be implemented to give such a move longterm consequences on the club's salary structure/ability to sign and trade for new players a la NFL.

4) I completely agree with lowering free agency age. The fact teams can hold on to a player's rights for 13 years, through most if not all of their prime, is Draconian, IMO.

But I think five seasons is just too small. I don't think players should be seeing free agency until 25 or 26, when they are a little more mature and settled, and less apt to make rash decisions on the whims of their money-hungry agents or because they "want to party". A 23-year-old might make decisions like that, while I think there is a key growing stage for men from 21 to 26 or 27, at least mentally. So I think six or seven years is more appropriate, with perhaps early allowances for players who enter the league at a later age than 18 or 19.

That's my thoughts on your plan, Sean. I think it's a good plan, but that it's just too restrictive, and I am not sure the lower revenue teams would benefit from this at all (and I would guess that also includes most Canadian teams, if my understanding of the issues between them and American-based teams is right).

CR

Maple Leafs 07-05-2004 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum
But that's just a quibble. My main issue with the hard cap in Point #1 is that it's too high. Yes, I know that's key to the union accepting it, but 70% is just too much of a cost. Remember, not every cost is salary, so holding salary levels at 70% of average revenue only limits one cost, but might also ensure that many, if not most teams, would not be able to make a profit. I think 65% is a much more comfortable level for this, although even that isn't going to help some teams.

True enough. You'll notice I didn't say anything about revenue sharing. That's largely because I don't think revenue sharing should be a CBA issue -- rather, it's up to the owners to figure out what to do with their money. We know there's more than enough money in the pot to pay out the 70% number (the "other" expenses aren't that high, especially with so many sweetheart lease deals), it's just a question of how to spread it around.

Team like Toronto and Detroit will have their payrolls chopped by up to $20M -- maybe that money goes back to the smaller teams. It's up to the owners to work it out, but the money is there. From the player's perspective, why should they take a lower cap value just to help the handful of struggling teams when there's already more than enough money in the pot? If the big market owners don't want to sacrifice, fine... just don't ask the players to sacrifice for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum
Also, does your salary cap figure take into account the new TV deal? Next year's league revenue might be significantly less than this year's.

They'd need to find a way to work that into it. The league must have an estimate of some sort that they could use as a baseline for this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum
I like the concept of a minimum cap, but we run into the same issues that were suggested when this was thrown out in baseball. Some players will be getting ridiculously inflated contracts they don't deserve, just so a team can reach the minimum cap. It's throwing money away and is just very inefficient.

Well, players already get ridiculous contracts that they don't deserve, but that's beside the point. I concede that there are issues with a salary floor. I just can't bring myself to call it fair if a system forces Toronto to cut it's payroll by 25%+ but doesn't also force the teams that are lowballing to pay up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum
But my main issue is that I think setting it so high ($35 M) does two things. The first is, that teams will be forced to pay that much, and I believe there are teams for which that, plus the associated costs of running the club, end up still being a losing venture for them.

Well, keep in mind that the average payroll last years was $44M, so the money is out there to pay the $35M easily if there's some sort of revenue share. Beyond that, if you look at the lowest payrolls last year you'll find that they're almost all teams that are either recent expansion teams following the low-budget blueprint (ATL, NAS, COL, and MIN) or teams that in obvious rebuilding mondes (CHI, PIT). Calgary, Ottawa, Phoenix and Carolina are already over $35M. Buffalo is just short. Edmonton was at about $31M, but that's no so far as to be out of reach.

I guess my answer to your objections would be two-fold:
- With some basic revenue sharing in place, most teams would be able to spend the $35M with room for a profit. Not necessarily a large profit, but no business should be guaranteed a large profit just for existing.
- If there are teams that legitimately can't cobble together enough revenue to cover $35M (keeping in mind, this league made $2B last year), even with revenue sharing... well, maybe they just shouldn't have a team. This league could afford to lose two or four or six teams and still have plenty to go around. If some teams are really trailing the others so badly that they can't keep up with even a modest salary floor, then at some point their owners will need to make some tough decisions.

Simms 07-05-2004 05:41 PM

"Multiple sources" (including at least one agent) have told the FAN (Toronto sports radio) that their understanding is that winger Glen Murray has already signed a deal with the Leafs. Anton Thun, Murray's agent, will only confirm that he's talked with Toronto, and not since last Friday.

Take that for what you wish. :)

Maple Leafs 07-05-2004 06:46 PM

Speaking of unannounced signings, Sean O'Donnell has apparently signed with Phoenix(!), not LA as had been expected.

samifan24 07-05-2004 08:09 PM

At least we'll have the AHL. I can keep track of my favorite NHL prospects next season while there's no NHL.

Honolulu_Blue 07-06-2004 02:54 AM

Boyd "The Void" Devereaux has ended up in Phoenix. And Cairns is now in Florida. I like that. I have always sort of liked Florida for some reason. No, because of Paul Laus. Now that Laus is pretty much done (due to injury), it's good to see another big, tough bruising defenseman like Cairns there to carry on the legacy.

bbor 07-06-2004 11:51 AM

Rennie is the best coach the Rangers could find?

Karim 07-06-2004 02:56 PM

I think it's a positive step for the Rangers. They've dumped some salaries, had a great draft and now have gone after a coach known for developing players instead of just getting a "name".

Karim 07-06-2004 06:11 PM

Conroy signs with LA for $12.6 million/4 years ($3.15 million/year).

In an interview, he said Sutter offered him a contract around the draft and then never talked to him again. It was a 3 year offer at around the same money he was making ($2.2 million/year) but the third year was dependant upon statistical output of year two. Also, a no trade clause was NOT included and he feared he might sign and be traded by December.

A lot of Flames fans are upset with him because Conroy talked a great game - how he loved the city, the fans, it wasn't about the money, he wanted security for his family instead, etc., etc. So to see him leave isn't sitting well with some people. It was clear however, he wasn't in Sutter's long-term plans.

In an interesting move, Sutter has signed 7 young free agents who either were let go by their AHL/ECHL clubs, were not drafted or were too old to return to junior. Apparently he's stocking up for potentially a new affiliate. Two of the players signed are the brothers of Robyn Regehr (Ritchie) and Marcus Nilson (Patrik).

Draft Dodger 07-06-2004 06:33 PM

you know, Hasek kind of LOOKS like the Sens logo...

bbor 07-06-2004 09:23 PM

So who does Sutter get to centre Jarome?

chrisj 07-06-2004 10:31 PM

I saw this posted elsewhere... I think it's funny. :P

NHL players need YOU!

Since September 11, 2001, Americans and Canadians have come together as never before in our generation. We have banded together to overcome tremendous adversity. We have weathered direct attacks on our own soil, wars overseas, corporate/government scandal, layoffs, unemployment, stock price plunges, droughts, fires, mad cow, SARS, high gasoline prices, and a myriad of economic and physical disasters both great and small. But now, we must come together once again to overcome our greatest challenge yet. Hundreds of Professional Hockey players in our very own nation are going to be locked out, living at well below the seven-figure salary level. And as if that weren't bad enough they could be deprived of their life giving pay for several months, possibly longer, as a result of the upcoming lockout situation. But you can help!

For only $20,835 a month, about $694.50 a day (that's less than the cost of a large screen projection TV) you can help an NHL player remain economically viable during his time of need. This contribution by no means solves the roblem as it barely covers the annual minimum salary, but it's a start, and every little bit will help!

Although $700 may not seem like a lot of money to you, to a hockey player it could mean the difference between spending the lockout golfing in Florida or on a Mediterranean cruise. For you, seven hundred dollars is nothing more than a month's rent, half a mortgage payment, or a month of medical insurance, but to a hockey player, $700 will partially replace his daily salary.

Your commitment of less than $700 a day will enable a player to buy that home entertainment center, trade in the year-old Lexus for a new Ferrari, or enjoy a weekend in Rio.

HOW WILL I KNOW I'M HELPING?

Each month, you will receive a complete financial report on the player you sponsor. Detailed information about his stocks, bonds, 401(k), real estate, and other investment holdings will be mailed to your home. Plus, upon signing up for this program, you will receive an unsigned photo of the player lounging during the lockout on a beach somewhere in the Caribbean (for a signed photo, please include an additional $150). Put the photo on your refrigerator to remind you of other peoples' suffering.

HOW WILL HE KNOW I'M HELPING?

Your NHL player will be told that he has a SPECIAL FRIEND who just wants to help in a time of need. Although the player won't know your name, he will be able to make collect calls to your home via a special operator in case additional funds are needed for unforeseen expenses.

YES, I WANT TO HELP!

I would like to sponsor a locked out NHL player. My preference is (check below):

[ ] Forward [ ] Defenseman [ ] Goaltender [ ] Entire team (Please call our 900 number to ask for the cost of a specific team - $10 per minute) [ ] Jaromir Jagr (Higher cost: $32,000 per day)

Please charge the account listed below $694.50 per day for the duration of the lockout. Please send me a picture of the player I have sponsored, along with an Jaromir Jagr 2001 Income Statement and my very own Bob Goodenow (Executive Director of the NHLPA player's Union) pin to wear proudly on my hat (include $80 for hat).

Your Name: _______________________

Telephone Number: _______________________

Account Number: _______________________ Exp.Date:_______

[ ] MasterCard [ ] Visa [ ] American Express [ ] Other

Signature: _______________________

Alternate card (when the primary card exceeds its credit limit):

Account Number: _______________________ Exp.Date:_______

[ ] MasterCard [ ] Visa [ ] American Express [ ] Other

Signature: _______________________

Karim 07-06-2004 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
So who does Sutter get to centre Jarome?


No one. Reinprecht takes over the role.

Karim 07-06-2004 11:49 PM

The WHA held its franchise-player draft:
http://www.worldhockeyassociation.ne.../top_story.htm

Honolulu_Blue 07-07-2004 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger
you know, Hasek kind of LOOKS like the Sens logo...


A little bit, he does.

I'll be the first to admit Hasek is a weird guy. There was that whole thing during the Senators-Buffalo series a few years back where Hasek was "injured" and was staying at the home of some Senator. There was the time he attacked Bondra. The talk of retirement. The injuries. All of that.

That said, he's been a pretty stand up guy when it comes to money. Last year he gave back (or refused to accept) a large portion of his contract with the Wings because he didn't play. He then goes and signs a $2 million deal with the Senators that will pay him an additional $4 million if they win the Cup. I think that's a pretty fair deal.

Not much more to say than that.

Oh, it appears as if the Wings are brining Chelios back for around $3 million. It's a one year deal. It's pretty much done, save for the details.

Draft Dodger 07-07-2004 08:47 AM

how to know your wife is a hockey fan, part 27:
you learn the Avs have a new coach from her.

I am on cloud 9 - Joel Quenneville! I hope this isn't a cruel joke (it's not official yet). Quenneville is exactly what the Avs need. Well, Bob Hartley is exactly what they need, but I digress.

this totally makes my day.

Cards4ever 07-07-2004 08:47 AM

Quennville to replace Granato?!
 
I wonder how this will work out.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1835446

Draft Dodger 07-07-2004 08:49 AM

Quenneville also gets bonus points because he was a Colorado Rockie. (I need to get one of those goofy jerseys)

sachmo71 07-07-2004 08:50 AM

Poor Tony.

Cards4ever 07-07-2004 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
Poor Tony.


It's what happens to former Badgers!

Hurst2112 07-07-2004 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
Poor Tony.


No shit. I haven't been following the off season that much, but I feel bad for Tony.

Wasn't he given a vote of confidence at the end of the year? I thought I remember hearing that, shortly after the Avs were ousted. I know that any promises for a coach don't amount to anything, but I would think Tony was taken by suprise by the move.

Not to mention Quenville isn't the greatest coach. Maybe wings fans should be celebrating the fact. Oh wait, it's 2004 and I'm talking about the Avs.

No worries! (:D ;))

Hurst2112 07-07-2004 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cards4ever
It's what happens to former Badgers!


Question is, do you think he will find another job? I am not so sure he will. Perhaps as an assistant in the NHL. Hopefully.

Honolulu_Blue 07-07-2004 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurst2112
Question is, do you think he will find another job? I am not so sure he will. Perhaps as an assistant in the NHL. Hopefully.


From what I've heard, Granato is stepping down and is taking a job as an assistant coach under Quenville. I think that's what I read. He already was an assistant coach there. It could be sort of odd, but I am sure they can manage.

Lacroix loves Granato. I think he wants him to stay with the organization.

bbor 07-07-2004 11:59 AM

Odd situation in Colorado with Granato staying on as Asst.

Odder situation in Dallas where Hull may sign....again.

bbor 07-07-2004 12:39 PM

Listening to sports radio in Toronto..Leaf fans are hilarious.

They are ripping on Ottawa for signing a 39 year old goaltender.......Uhh...guys....Eddie is the same age eh..

Also they are saying that Ottawa will NEVER win a cup with Alfredsson as their captain....cause he's a SWEDE??????

I guess Sundin is Canadian?

Johnny93g 07-07-2004 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
Listening to sports radio in Toronto..Leaf fans are hilarious.

They are ripping on Ottawa for signing a 39 year old goaltender.......Uhh...guys....Eddie is the same age eh..

Also they are saying that Ottawa will NEVER win a cup with Alfredsson as their captain....cause he's a SWEDE??????

I guess Sundin is Canadian?


Hasek is 39, but he's played 14 games in 2 years....and Eddie has shown no signs of slowing down...he relies on positioning, not reflexes, so Im very happy he's back....

It's not that Ottawa's captain is swedish that they wont win a cup....It's that it's Alfferdsson, that fat, pussy, cheap shot, dirty bastard.....He's not a leader, he's a snake

MrIllini 07-07-2004 01:01 PM

'splain me this one

Granato gets demoted for playoff failure, and they turn around and hire Quenneville?

sachmo71 07-07-2004 01:19 PM

Jeez, Johnny. There are dirtier players in the league than Alfredsson. What's you beef with him?

klayman 07-07-2004 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
Jeez, Johnny. There are dirtier players in the league than Alfredsson. What's you beef with him?


Hell, there are dirtier players on his favorite team even.

Maple Leafs 07-07-2004 05:20 PM

Alfredsson's not that dirty. Actually, he's probably not even in the top 50 dirtiest players.

He does, however, play the "holier than thou" card in the media so often that you can forgive people for paying more attention to his cheapshots.

Draft Dodger 07-07-2004 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs
Alfredsson's not that dirty. Actually, he's probably not even in the top 50 dirtiest players.

He does, however, play the "holier than thou" card in the media so often that you can forgive people for paying more attention to his cheapshots.


sounds like a Swede on MY favorite team... :D

Hurst2112 07-07-2004 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIllini
'splain me this one

Granato gets demoted for playoff failure, and they turn around and hire Quenneville?


Wurd. Exactly what I was thinking.

Karim 07-07-2004 07:58 PM

Not unexpectedly, Moscow Dynamo wants $2 million to release Ovechkin...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...hl_ovechkin_dc

I hope it doesn't reach a point where teams pass on a guy because their afraid they won't be able to sign him...

Karim 07-08-2004 01:44 PM

Reported by the Bergen Record:

By TOM GULITTISTAFF WRITER

Scott Niedermayer has fired his agent, clearing a potential obstacle from the Devils' efforts to re-sign the reigning Norris Trophy winner to a long-term contract.

The NHL Players' Association confirmed Wednesday that Niedermayer, a restricted free agent, is now being represented by North Vancouver-based agent Kevin Epp, a longtime family friend who grew up not far from Niedermayer in Cranbrook, B.C.

According to an NHL source, Epp and Devils' general manager Lou Lamoriello are working on a deal that would pay Niedermayer, 30, an average of nearly $8 million per season over four or five years. That would place Niedermayer slightly above Martin Brodeur and Scott Stevens at the top of the team's salary structure. It is not known if Niedermayer's deal will include deferred money, as Brodeur's and Stevens' contracts do.

~~~~~
In related news, Madden is in-line to make $4.6 million this year and Friesen signed his qualifying offer for $3 million.

Was I asleep when Steinbrenner bought the Devils?

bbor 07-08-2004 01:49 PM

Who was his agent?

Chubby 07-08-2004 02:48 PM

Sabres dropped ticket prices a lot YAY!

And jacked up prices on the Toronto games to screw the Leaf fans :D

Cards4ever 07-08-2004 03:05 PM

The Wild have signed Brian Rolston.

bbor 07-08-2004 03:07 PM

Buffalo has a team? :D

henry296 07-08-2004 03:09 PM

The Penguins are considering opening a slots parlor in order to help finance a new area.

Maple Leafs 07-08-2004 04:56 PM

Joe Thorton signs with a Swiss elite team.

Um... what?

Draft Dodger 07-08-2004 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs
Joe Thorton signs with a Swiss elite team.

Um... what?


the first of several, I think (although not a mass exodus, because I think most teams have limits on the number of "foreign" players, a la the CFL). He does have an opt out if the NHL plays.

Really, a GREAT move for him - he's a Restricted Free Agent, so this gives him much more leverage than he normally would have had.

Bruins, meanwhile, have lost Sean O'Donnell, Mike Knuble, Brian Rolston, and Glen Murray is probably on the way out as well. What a shame.

Draft Dodger 07-08-2004 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
Buffalo has a team? :D


aka Ottawa's farm system.

Chubby 07-08-2004 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger
aka Ottawa's farm system.


They can have our rejects. Suits me fine, they'll continue to flame out in the playoffs every year :D

Karim 07-09-2004 02:29 PM

WHA targetting Sidney Crosby but the league sounds more and more like a joke...
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...tacodalogin=no

Karim 07-10-2004 02:30 PM

Thornton sells condo... sounds like his time in Boston is over...
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/...rts/TopStories

Iginla's contract will set the bar for everyone...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...NStory/Sports/

WHA is not going to Halifax ... and remains a joke...
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/aj_walling.asp

Draft Dodger 07-10-2004 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karim
Thornton sells condo... sounds like his time in Boston is over...
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/...rts/TopStories


interesting - he was walking distance to the Fleet.

klayman 07-10-2004 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby
They can have our rejects. Suits me fine, they'll continue to flame out in the playoffs every year :D


Opposed to Buffalo's stellar performances ;)

Chubby 07-10-2004 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klayman
Opposed to Buffalo's stellar performances ;)


How many Stanley Cup finals have the Sens gotten to recently? I thought so :p

Tekneek 07-10-2004 03:19 PM

And how old is the Buffalo franchise? How old is the Ottawa franchise? Nothing like fans of two recently bankrupt franchises bickering...

Chubby 07-10-2004 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tekneek
And how old is the Buffalo franchise? How old is the Ottawa franchise? Nothing like fans of two recently bankrupt franchises bickering...


We're not bankrupt, haven't been close for over a year now.

Ottawa wishes they were Buffalo, even Buffalo pays it's players :)

klayman 07-10-2004 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tekneek
And how old is the Buffalo franchise? How old is the Ottawa franchise? Nothing like fans of two recently bankrupt franchises bickering...


Whoa whoa whoaaaa. I was just making a funny. In no way whatsoever do I wish to be considered an Ottawa fan.

klayman 07-10-2004 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby
How many Stanley Cup finals have the Sens gotten to recently? I thought so :p


Recently, none. But at least they do have a Stanley Cup to their name :)

Chubby 07-10-2004 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klayman
Recently, none. But at least they do have a Stanley Cup to their name :)


Unless recently means 1927 that is :p

klayman 07-10-2004 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby
Unless recently means 1927 that is :p


It doesn't, but 1927 is the number of years you'll have to wait until the Sabers win one. :p back at ya :)

Chubby 07-10-2004 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klayman
It doesn't, but 1927 is the number of years you'll have to wait until the Sabers win one. :p back at ya :)


Nah, I don't think they will get close this year (maybe playoffs if there's a season) but in a couple of years the Sabres can be a contender. Certainly moreso than the bumbling Sens.

Tekneek 07-10-2004 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby
Nah, I don't think they will get close this year (maybe playoffs if there's a season) but in a couple of years the Sabres can be a contender. Certainly moreso than the bumbling Sens.


Sure thing. :D

Karim 07-10-2004 04:45 PM

The Sabres definitely have three stud goalies. If they could ever package one for some help they'd be on their way.

I still don't Hasek is the answer but we'll see...

Chubby 07-10-2004 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karim
The Sabres definitely have three stud goalies. If they could ever package one for some help they'd be on their way.

I still don't Hasek is the answer but we'll see...


Lalime was a decent goalie, I never thought he was the problem with the Sens. They have NO toughness, they're all pretty boys. No grit. Signing Barnaby who isn't the player he used to be won't help. Curtis is ok but I'm not sad to see him gone.

Believe me, EVERYONE (al the fans) would love to see them just trade one, make 1 the starter and 1 the backup. There's no need for 3. It looks like Noronen will be the one traded 1st IMO. I know they don't want to deal the wrong guy but they can't keep all 3 forever (since you can only protect 2 goalies or expose more forwards in the waiver draft) so deal one and improve the blueline.

bbor 07-10-2004 05:46 PM

I really like the Sens team...they have talent out the ass...but i think they need a purpose/cause to win for.

They need a Ray Bourque type to play for to win him a cup before he retires.

Draft Dodger 07-10-2004 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
I really like the Sens team...they have talent out the ass...but i think they need a purpose/cause to win for.

They need a Ray Bourque type to play for to win him a cup before he retires.


Brian Leetch?

Maple Leafs 07-10-2004 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
I really like the Sens team...they have talent out the ass...but i think they need a purpose/cause to win for.

They need a Ray Bourque type to play for to win him a cup before he retires.

They really need a Gary Roberts type. Everyone sees it. Roberts himself would have been perfect. Brendan Shanahan would be great. Even a second-tier Steve Thomas type would have been fine. But instead they went and got Bondra. Sigh.

Any former Sabres out there who'd fill the Roberts role?

Draft Dodger 07-10-2004 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs
Any former Sabres out there who'd fill the Roberts role?


Rob Ray?
*snicker*

Maple Leafs 07-10-2004 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger
Rob Ray?
*snicker*

(Puts on Leafs fan hat.)

Oh please god, let them bring Ray back again.

Draft Dodger 07-10-2004 06:40 PM

in other news, I guess the Tony Twist comeback wont be in Edmonton...

take 2

bbor 07-10-2004 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger
Brian Leetch?


Leetch already has a cup.

Karim 07-11-2004 02:31 PM

I'm now convinced that the owners are hiding money - legally. I've been reading a book called "Levelling the Playing Field" written by an econ prof and goes into detail about baseball economics but the principles are applicable to any sport.

No wonder the players don't trust the owners in either sport. There are so many related-party transactions amongst these owners, then can squirrel away money from the team and declare on financial statements that they've lost money. Both Wirtz and Huzienga can, with a straight face and with legal documents, say they don't make any money through luxury boxes even though the United Center has the most boxes in the NHL and Huzienga sold 67 @ $100,000 for every Marlins home game the year after their World Series victory. This is just one example.

Meanwhile the union wants to see the full books, not just the team's but every operation owned by the owner. Not a chance but the request is fully understandable seen in this new light. So every time owners refuse to open the full books, you can certainly bet their squirreling money away into their other business to make their franchise seem unprofitable. Yet, they'll turn around and sell the team at a substantial percentage increase.

And it appears the Devils are in the fold of YankeesNets... although I would have remembered more publicity on this matter. Anyway, if they indeed are, they're now the richest tean in the NHL. The breakdown of the Yankees finances in the book is nothing short of jaw-dropping...

Draft Dodger 07-11-2004 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karim
I'm now convinced that the owners are hiding money - legally. I've been reading a book called "Levelling the Playing Field" written by an econ prof and goes into detail about baseball economics but the principles are applicable to any sport.


there is NO question in my mind that this happens.

bbor 07-12-2004 12:40 AM

Lecavalier replaces Yzerman on the Canadian WC team.

Honolulu_Blue 07-12-2004 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
Lecavalier replaces Yzerman on the Canadian WC team.


:(

Well, it was time. I think it's the best of all worlds for both sides. You give Stevie Y the respect he deserves by putting him on the team. This looks good for both Yzerman and Team Canada. Then Yzerman gets to gracefully bow out, leaving the spot open for a younger player. This benefits team Canada. Yzerman is god. Actually you can draw parallels between Steve and the Almighty. Back in the day (see: Old Testament) there was nothing he couldn't (or woludn't) do. Nowadays (see: New Testament) he's still an aswesome force to be revered and worshipped, but just not, well, quite as active.

Am I going to hell for this?

(Note: No more posts after 2 hours and sleep and before coffee)

bbor 07-12-2004 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue
:(

Well, it was time. I think it's the best of all worlds for both sides. You give Stevie Y the respect he deserves by putting him on the team. This looks good for both Yzerman and Team Canada. Then Yzerman gets to gracefully bow out, leaving the spot open for a younger player. This benefits team Canada. Yzerman is god. Actually you can draw parallels between Steve and the Almighty. Back in the day (see: Old Testament) there was nothing he couldn't (or woludn't) do. Nowadays (see: New Testament) he's still an aswesome force to be revered and worshipped, but just not, well, quite as active.

Am I going to hell for this?

(Note: No more posts after 2 hours and sleep and before coffee)


Naw...you're not gonna go to hell for this,but for being a Red Wings fan in general will get you a trip to the firey gates of hell:)

Looks like Blake is gonna drop out too.They are looking at Mccabe as a possible replacement.

sachmo71 07-12-2004 11:34 AM

Radio station KTCK 1310 The Ticket is reporting that defenseman
Richard Matvichuk has signed a four-year contract with the New
Jersey Devils.

Mark Stepneski
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com



Something tells me that he's going to bounce back and have a great year. :(

bbor 07-12-2004 11:46 AM

Can't believe Lamarello is opening the wallet for everyone except Niedermeyer.

I'd give up 5 first rounders to sign him.

Karim 07-12-2004 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue
Yzerman is god.


No, no, no. Wayne is God.

Karim 07-12-2004 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
Can't believe Lamarello is opening the wallet for everyone except Niedermeyer.

I'd give up 5 first rounders to sign him.


It's just a matter of time. Neids fired his agent and no doubt sees the value in $40 million over 5 years.

I didn't realize that YankeesNets has disbanded and the 28% share they had owned in the Devils has been sold. It doesn't sound like the plan of a Newark arena has come to fruition.
http://www.nj.com/devils/ledger/inde...7551189550.xml

Karim 07-13-2004 03:17 PM

Just what the NHL needs... another credibility problem...
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=90974

And the NHL knew about it...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...NStory/Sports/

bbor 07-13-2004 03:28 PM

ML should be happy....Fraser may take over for Van hellemond:D

Karim 07-14-2004 12:09 AM

If anyone cares, here are Forecaster's final grades for the 2004 draft...
http://www.forecaster.ca/demo/hockey...HLDraft-Grades

I believe it was Ken Linseman that took the NHL to court for denying the ability of an 18 year old to make a living. Since then the draft has been open to anyone 18 years old. Most people agree that it is much easier to assess talent at age 20. Does anyone know if this is something that could be collectively bargained?

Pyser 07-15-2004 11:39 AM

interesting interview with lou lamoriello.....who says the guy doesnt have personality?

ok, ok. so he doesnt. but as a devils fan, an interview like this does nothing but make me smile. (from espn):

ESPN.com: How would you assess your team's performance last season, regular season and playoffs?
Lamoriello: Going into the season we certainly felt very good. When you're coming off a Stanley Cup win you always have a bit of apprehension. The summer's shorter and the celebrations are longer, but we were extremely pleased with the players and the shape they arrived in at training camp. Their focus was there and their commitment, and we felt that way right from the beginning. And any time you get 100 points you have to feel that things went well. This team competed as well as any team that we've had here during the regular season because they overcame significant adversity to get there.


We had a chance in the last game to win the division (a 3-1 loss to Boston). In the playoffs, we came off a couple of injuries, (along with Stevens, defenseman Brian Rafalski missed a dozen games down the stretch with a broken fibula and was not 100 percent in the playoffs) and this is not to take anything away from Philadelphia. There were close games that could have gone either way, but they didn't. We could have come out of it just as easily as we didn't. In the playoffs it caught up to us a little bit.


You can never replace a Scott Stevens. What he brings to the locker room. What he brings to the ice. What he brings anywhere.


As for the team's perceived lack of scoring, Lamoriello was nonplused.


I mean no disrespect, but I leave those discussions to you people. Even when we were one of the top-scoring teams in the National Hockey League people said we didn't score enough. We scored a lot more goals than we gave up. Unless something has changed, it's all about winning. You have to score more goals than you give up. It's all about the goal differential.


The Devils were 4th in the NHL with a plus-49 goal differential.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ESPN.com: Which player made the most significant strides in your estimation or had the biggest impact?
Lamoriello: If I have to look back at the end of a season at one or two players that stand out we haven't played the way our system dictates us to play. But our two young defensemen -- David Hale and Paul Martin -- are highlights because they came right out of college and we gave them a Devils uniform and gave them the minutes and the opportunity and they accepted them. And they are both character and quality individuals.


Martin, a University of Minnesota product, averaged 20:07 in ice time a night and chipped in 24 points while Hale, out of the University of North Dakota, had four assists while logging 15:01 in ice time per game.


We always say we don't want to be in a rebuilding year in New Jersey. Every one of us from management to coaches have to sort of buy into the process. These players had to go a little quicker. But if you'd told me in October or September that they would have been at this level I would have been ecstatic. So there were positive things that came out of (the injury situation).




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ESPN.com: Which player needs to bounce back or take the biggest step forward if there is hockey this season?
Lamoriello: I try not to deal in hypotheticals. Until we have our team actually finalized all of these things are just hypotheticals. Today, for instance, we made an addition to our club, Richard Matvichuk. When you do things it changes others. We'll know more when the time comes.


(As for Matvichuk) he certainly fits into the defensive defenseman side of our pairings. He brings size and strength and more important, experience in winning. He's in my mind relatively young at 31. It won't take him long to get into our system.


I would hope he's more of a compliment (to Stevens) than anything else because Scott's very important to our team. We're prepared for all situations and circumstances.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For many years, the Devils have been considered the best franchise at evaluating talent. In spite of regularly drafting late because of their regular-season success, Lamoriello and director of scouting David Conte always seem to find the right players for their system, players who step seamlessly into the mix. This training camp the team's top prospect Zach Parise, the son of longtime NHLer J.P. Parise, will get a long look as will a handful of other forwards including Finn Tuomas Pihlman, Russian Aleksander Suglobov and perhaps late-blooming Ilkka Pikkarainen, another Finn.


ESPN.com: Which player not on your roster has the best chance to make an impact next year?
Lamoriello: In my mind there are four young forwards. Any of them, given the opportunity, could make that step. Any of those four has the ability and the size and the strength to do what's necessary and we'll make the decision. All can play in Albany, and there's always a chance we could make a move that could open a spot like we did with David Hale and Paul Martin. We always say, the players will dictate who plays. No one else.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ESPN.com: What is the top priority in improving the organization?
Lamoriello: Everywhere.


ESPN.com: Anything more specific?
Lamoriello: Even if I thought we had a deficiency I would not talk about it.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ESPN.com: What was your favorite moment from last season?
Lamoriello: I don't think there's one highlight. Certainly, it would be the play of the two young players I've spoken about (Martin and Hale) and to see Scott Niedermayer at the end of the year recognized (with the Norris Trophy as the league's best defenseman) for what he's been doing for years.


ESPN.com: Least favorite moment?
Lamoriello: Every game we didn't win.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ESPN.com: What activity, destination or hobby will take you furthest away from hockey this offseason?
Lamoriello: I think all of us have different ways of getting away. Reading a book, seeing a movie, spending time with children. All of these. But one specific area, I don't have one specific area. But you have to be able to step back because if you don't I don't think you make decisions with a clear head.


ESPN.com: Any book or movie suggestions?
Lamoriello: No, not really.

Cards4ever 07-15-2004 01:26 PM

Gotta love them former Gophers! Paul Martin is someone I've watched since he was a freshmen in HS, what a treat it is to see him succeed at the highest level.

henry296 07-15-2004 01:52 PM

Cards,

What is your impression of the Peguins second rounder Alex Goligoski. Many people thought it was a reach. He has committed to Minnesota.

Thanks
Todd


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