dola, thought that was pretty cool.

Definitely awesome, Buerhle seems like a great guy. Good for him.

Good thing there are no Muslims on the team! ;)

MLB trade deadline buzz: Tuesday's edition - FOX Sports on MSN

Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Jarrod Washburn is officially available. The Yankees are going to make an offer soon and the Brewers are also interested.

Buehrle is perfect through 4 and is 1 out away from tying the ML record for most retired batters in a row, and 2 outs away from breaking the record.

Bobby Jenks incidentally is the record holder along with someone else.

I probably just jinxed everything, but really nice run by Buehrle.

And hes got the record! 42 consecutive batters retired!

Wow... go Buehrle!

Aw wow, a walk! props to you buehrle!

wow the fans in the metrodome our on their feet applauding! although, I don't think it was for buehrle. haha

and then a hit, cheers buehrle.

pretty impressive run

14 2/3 straight perfect innings in back to back games. well done

Freakin crazy. Especially since he pitches to contact.

and now back to baseball, everything falling apart for the chisox now haha.

fuck

Ouch, Soriano has been so good this year but he just gave up a two run HR to lose the game, Florida wins 4-3.

I was close.

Pitchers duel or inept offense battle going on in SF?

Hard to tell. Either pitcher could have been chased by a decent offense.

I'm pretty sure that Ryan Doumit is the only player in the Pirates' lineup tonight (Sanchez is out with a sore knee and Wilson is a healthy scratch) with more than 1000 career at bats. And, I'm pretty sure that Doumit has less than 1500.

I love our lineup.

I will say, Billingsley has some wicked stuff.. although Wainwright has been stellar tonight.

Ramon Vazquez has 1870 career AB's.

But I think Randy Winn has more career AB's than the Pirates whole lineup.

I'm pretty sure Russell is a bad manager. Morton shouldn't have batted in the 6th with 2 on. We've been burned too often by Pitchers being pulled too late. Our pen is solid.
Unless Karstens starts for a potentially traded Duke tomorrow.

4 in a row! For only the second time this season. (ugh)

A Toronto newspaper reporter just tweeted that the Phillies have acquired Cliff Lee for Carrasco, Marson, and Donald.

Carrasco was pulled from his start today.

Dola...and really they could still have the prospects to pull off getting Halladay.

Right, because in this trade, they wouldn't be giving up any good ones.

Here's the writer's twitter feed: http://twitter.com/GloBlair

His last post: "Just spoke to AL scout sez if Lee deal is true it's a steal for Phils. Was stunned. Doesn't believe it can be true ..."

Wasn't Toronto asking for Happ, Drabek, and Talor (the CF)? They are still in the organization.

I thought the OF was Brown, but yeah it could still happen.

Still, would the Phillies want both guys?

Brown is an OF too.

I doubt it but it would be amazing if they had a Rotation of:

Halladay
Hamels
Lee
Blanton
Pedro Martinez/Lopez/Moyer/Some other bum that won't pitch in the playoffs

It would be a rotation almost as good as I use to have in the RWBL.

Rosenthal says Lee deal is done pending medical review.

Sources: Phils reach agreement for Indians' Lee - FOX Sports on MSN

I <3 Cleveland.

I guess a Tampa station is saying Martinez is on his way to the Rays but it could be just rumor.

Good deal for the Phillies. The difference between Lee and Halladay is smaller than most realize.

Love the deal for the Phillies, though I can't agree with your second point unless people think there is a chasm between the two. Halladay is a markedly better pitcher than Lee, and one I'd much rather have pitching Game 1 of a playoff series.

Lee has been lights out in the AL. May as well pencil him in for a 2.5 ERA in the NL.

This is where I disagree. Since the beginning of last season, which is when Lee overhauled his approach, they've been more or less the same pitcher. I can see it if you don't have faith in the adjustments Lee made sticking or if you think the league will catch up, but even after his Cy Young season I think Lee is a very underrated pitcher.

The only concern I'd have as a Phillie fan is that Lee is more of a flyball pitcher than Halladay so he may become a bit more homer prone.

The difference between Halladay and Lee is that Halladay could be a #1 pitcher for any team in baseball (even including teams like Red Sox, Mets, Yankees, etc who already have a bonafied ace). Lee is an all star calibre pitcher who could be a #1 for many teams, and a very solid #2 for most teams.

He absolutely would help any team in the playoffs either way and was a steal for Philadelphia if this deal is actually as advertised.

Jack Wilson, Ian Snell of Pittsburgh Pirates traded to Seattle Mariners for five players - ESPN
The Pittsburgh Pirates have dealt shortstop Jack Wilson and right-handed pitcher Ian Snell to the Seattle Mariners for shortstop Ronny Cedeno, first baseman Jeff Clement, and right-handed pitching prospects Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin and Nathan Adcock, the Pirates announced Wednesday.

The team said Cedeno will report directly to the Pirates, while Clement is headed to Triple-A Indianapolis and Pribanic, Lorin and Adcock are being assigned to Single-A teams.

Clement, Seattle's first-round pick and the third overall selection in the 2005 draft, was hitting .288 with 33 doubles, 14 home runs, 68 RBIs and 65 runs scored at Triple-A Tacoma in the Pacific Coast League.

"Our scouts have consistently projected Clement to be an everyday major league contributor with the power to hit 20-plus home runs," Pirates GM Neal Huntington said.

Wilson, who was the Pirates' longest-tenured player, is hitting .267 with four home runs and 31 RBIs. Snell is 2-8 with a 5.36 ERA in 15 starts.

The Mariners made the trade for Wilson perhaps thinking about making the team better for 2010, as well as 2009. The shortstop has a contractual option for next season, for $8.4 million, and it may be that the Mariners will choose to exercise that option -- something that the Pirates were not going to do.

I think Lee is amazing as well, but Halliday has an ERA+ this season of 164, while Lee has an ERA+ of 143. That's not insignificant (though yes, last year, Lee had a much high mark).

What Alan said. In my rough, no research behind it back of the envelope sort of way, I'd say Halladay is Top 3 and Lee if Top 15 in baseball. Both are great, but Halladay is extra-great.

Lee also has a .325 BABIP this year so he's been rather unlucky.

We can look at strikeouts and walks or defensive independant things like that, if you wish. Halladay wins by a pretty decent margin in both K's and BB's over Lee.

Since the beginning of last season:

Halladay: 387ip 58bb 28hr 329k 117.6 total vorp

Lee: 375.1ip 67bb 22hr 277k 122.3 total vorp


Very similar pitchers. Halladay gets the edge in strikeouts while everything else is really a wash. I simply stated that since the beginning of last season they've essentially been the same pitcher and I believe its true. Halladay strikes out more batters and has a longer track record, which gives him the edge overall. However, I don't think Lee is a consolation prize by any means.

In other news, according to Will Carroll, Chien-Ming Wang is having surgery on his shoulder capsule; similar to the surgeries Mark Prior, Doc Gooden, and Brien Taylor had.

Finally they dealt the whiny cunt Ian Snell. Like the trade for the Bucs....Basically it pisses off the fringe fans who think Jack Wilson's a freaking all Star. Seems to be a good return.

Glad to see Jeff Clement get a change of scenery. Hopefully the Pirates play him instead of letting him sit in AAA.

Turning two months of Jack Wilson and Ian Snell (who is a headcase and was never going to pitch for the Pirates again) into five players, including a few that actually seem to have some upside, is amazing. Just getting out from under Snell's 2010 salary was a win. I wouldn't mind seeing Wilson return next season, as a FA, but I am very happy with this trade and, overall, with what the Pirates have been doing this season.

Dola...

Looks like the Pirates are very close to trading Freddy Sanchez to the Giants, as well. This is turning into an OOTP online league-like fire sale. :)

the phillies have so many SPs now, i really doubt they'd go after halladay at this point:

1. Lee
2. Hamels
3. Blanton
4. Happ
5. Moyer
6. Lopez
7. Pedro (basically ready for the majors shortly)
8. Myers (may be back by late Aug or Sept)

should be intersting what they do now. 3 of the 8 above will not make the rotation (4 if they do get halladay). i'm guessing: myers (bullpen), pedro (bullpen) and... moyer? (released)

The pirates are currently slated to pay these players (much)more than the league minimum next year

C-Doumit
Utility-Vasquez
Utility-guy they got from the Mariners in this trade
SP-Maholm
SP-Duke
MR-Yates
CL-capps
MR-Karstens

Maybe a few others, but they'll be making less than 1 million.

Just for the drama of it, I now sort of hope the Jays trade Halladay to a team that faces the Phillies in the playoffs.

WASN'T JOE CARTER ENOUGH!?!?

Lee may not be as good as Halladay, but he's still very talented. And cheaper.

This Cliff Lee trade is bullshit. Thanks, Shapiro.

I wonder if the Mariners are now going to deal Washburn and that's why they got Snell.

I know it's probably out of the question, but do the Phillies still try to pursue Halladay? They seem to still have the personal available to acquire him. Imagine that rotation for the remainder of this yr, as well as next.

If I was Philly, I'd still try to get Halladay. I don't know how you pass up the opportunity to have a rotation like that for a couple years at least.

Might want to update that image, I'm pretty sure he's 1-for-5 now.

Pirates vs Giants going for the underscore again. Cain has pitched 9 scoreless, Duke threw 7 scoreless.

0-0 tie going into the 9th.

Its like the incredible sulk of offenses. How the Giants suck....

Oh yeah sorry, my mistake.

Lee, like Buerhle(only without the evidence of post-season marbles/success), isn't an ace in the traditional sense, but he pitches like one on most nights, and MLB teams would be happy to have the guy at the top of the rotation.

Knapp is the only prospect with All-Star potential(imo) and the kid is only 18. Even though Lee has only really put it together in the past 2 years and is 30 years old, I expect the Phillies to give him the 5+ year contract Boras will probably demand.

Regarding Buerhle's perfect 15 innings, that feat may be one of the best any of us see in our lifetimes, just awesome. The Twins and their fans showed true class with the standing ovations.

Rowland-Smith had a no hitter broken up in the 7th vs the Jays.

There we go Gnats

I love the deadline time of the year.

Dola, I also think there is some kind of bigger deal looming that isn't being talked about as much.

Bigger than Brian Anderson? :-)

lol. at least us chisox fans stick together eh. I'm thinking Josh Fields BIG!

Sanchez to the giants is a done deal, apparently straight up for a minor leaguer according to mlbtr . not sure who the minor leaguer is yet tho.

The Pirates acquired SP Tim Alderson, the Giants' #4 prospect according to BA. Alderson was at AA Connecticut of the Eastern League. He'll likely go to Altoona in the same league. I think the Buccos did well in this one.

Pirates get Alderson for Sanchez? Wow.

http://community.post-gazette.com/bl...c/default.aspx

dola Giants fans are not happy.

Freddy Sanchez Traded to the*Giants - McCovey Chronicles

I'm not a fan of the intelligence the Pittsburgh front office has been displaying.

They'll turn things around much sooner than most think.

Only the Tribe would trade away back to back CY Young winners - way to go Dolan! Thanks for buying a franchise you apparently can't afford. I hate being a fan of a team in a small market :banghead:

They shouldn't be... horrid trade for San Fran!

So of course the Mets are on a nice little run and Johan on the mound tonight and the game gets rained out

Or they could continue to lose with the same guys. Sometimes ya gotta tear things down.

I'm not horrified by the Freddy Sanchez trade. Yeah, giving up a high-level prospect for what seems to be an above average player is risky, but I don't think Alderson has a high ceiling. Time will tell, as always.

We can kiss Victor goodbye, too.

<--- A's fan...I feel ya

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Both deals netted major league quality players that will be around for a while and aren't blocking anyone. They didn't kill their system and set themselves up for a key offseason in addition to a chance to make the playoffs. Besides, the Giants have shown they know what they are doing with regard to young pitching in recent years. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

I'm pretty happy with the Pirates' haul for the day.

I like the idea that they added four somewhat promising, young arms. Almost like a mini-draft coup without having to pay all of the signing bonuses. If they hit on one or two of the four, I'll be thrilled. As it is, they pick up a stopgap shortstop in Cedeno and a player with a little bit of pop in Clement, along with the four lottery ticket starting pitchers, while significantly cutting payroll with three guys that they didn't want past this season anyway.

What I'd really like to see now is for the Bucs to sign Dominican FA Miguel Angel Sano with some of the money they are saving from Sanchez's contract.

Y'know, I've seen a lot of screwy stuff in my lifetime but I can't say that I've ever seen an umpire fist bump the catcher after the last strike of a game before.

But if you watched the Marlins-Braves tonight, then you could have seen (so-called) umpire Bill Hohn do it. The best part is the look on Chipper's face in the dugout when he saw it.

Hohn is the same guy Chipper had to be restrained from killing a few weeks ago, the same guy who not only went to the dugout looking for Cox to find a reason to eject him tonight but actually took out the lineup card in order to record the ejection before Cox started talking to him, and he got McCann just for the hell of it as he got ready to warm up a reliever to start the 8th.

But if the fist bump with a Florida player in apparent celebration of the Marlins win isn't a suspension for this goofy looking sumbitch, then I'm not sure what it would take for an umpire to get one.

Cardinals-Dodgers game is OUTSTANDING tonight. 2-2 in the 15th. Cards tied in the bottom of the 9th on a Colby Rasmus 2 out single. Manny was thrown out at the plate. Diving catches. SSs going deep and making great throws. Great pitching, great defense, clutch hitting. Definitely playoff baseball tonight.

Ryan leads off the bottom of the 15th with a triple into the LF corner!!!

and now they may fail to score after getting thrown out at the plate

ball game. Pujols is a machine

Whew. Ryan thrown out at the plate with one out. Pujols comes through with a shot over the CFers head scoring Lugo from 2nd. What a great game.

Agreed that the Pirates got a decent haul. The Seattle trade is more head-scratching than the Giants one - I've heard varying reports on Alderson, with some putting him at a #4 ceiling. Seattle if anything I thought would be sellers, not buyers. For a team that isn't particularly close to contention and has been bad the past couple years, they really should have broken it down and tried to rebuild behind guys like Clement, Jones, Hernandez etc.

With Clement, Garrett Jones and delwyn young the Pirates have a solid rotation for the DH position.

I saw that and meant to post something about it. Even as a Marlins fan, Hohn's dealings with the Braves last night all around was horrible. He was definitely the "star" of the game.

What the hell does Zack have to do to get a win. He's without question the best pitcher in baseball, yet the Royals continue have issues giving him any sort of run support. In 5 starts in July, he's given up 9 earned runs. His record during that stretch? 0-3. I'm going to be SO PISSED if the Royals offense manages to steal a Cy Young award from Greinke.

Get traded to the Yankees.

I watched Maddux go through that same thing back in the day with the Cubs. He got one in 92, but had a couple 20 win seasons stolen from him since the team was shit. There should be no doubt that he's the Cy Young winner in the AL, but ESPN will push hard for Beckett if he wins 20.

"Without question the best pitcher" in the American League. Not in all of baseball. Greinke has an ERA+ of 207, but in the National League, Dan Haren has an ERA+ of 206 (and Haren has a WHIP of 0.858 :eek: ) and Matt Cain has an ERA+ of 202. So, yah, both of them have an argument.

but...but...oh...you said era+

*shuts up*

what we need is like WHIP+ or something though. evaluating anything across leagues without normalizing for the league averages is criminal.

According to the stats at baseball-reference, the current league average WHIP in the NL is 1.38, the AL average is 1.39.

Wouldn't that mean that the apples-to-apples (on the current season to this point)works to an extremely close margin without the need for normalization?

:bowdown:

didn't realize that. good stuff. the answer is yes then (of course).

I was just remarking how incredible that WHIP is, yes, prior to normalization or whathaveyou.

Well, full disclosure requires me to admit that I didn't either until I checked the numbers.


Sadly though, I wouldn't call it an "of course". I actually hesitated before posting to try to figure out what could throw it off?

Did I need medians, not averages? Did inter-league play have an affect? Should I consider average park factors across both leagues? Do I need to normalize each pitcher based on the parks they've actually pitched their innings in versus the league average?

I at least knew enough to consider, however briefly, those things off the top of my head, regardless of whether I knew how to compute or where to find that info or cared enough to do so. I feel pretty safe that the average fan couldn't have gotten anywhere near half those things, and I would have gotten fewer if I hadn't played/reverse engineered/grognarded so many tabletop sports games over the years.

And people wonder why the newer stats don't get a lot of mainstream love?

to be fair you're right...there are probably additional things that could go into it (park factors especially, interleague play schedule), but as a ballpark approximation it's helpful.

it also doesn't necessarily take into account the strength of NL lineups versus AL lineups (pitchers vs. DH, generally weaker offensive players at some positions in the field, the use of pinch hitters who are not league-average hitters), but again, as a rough-rough approximation i'm more or less okay with it.

I'd say the fact that NL pitchers are having just ask much success getting NL hitters out as AL pitchers are having getting AL hitters out would bolster the AL guy's WHIP. The twin swords of 8 hitters vs. 9 and the generalized belief that hitters in the AL are better than those in the NL being the reasoning.

edit: As DT said.