Front Office Football Central - The Obama Presidency

So Romney is now going to spend the campaign talking about his VP's plans. That seems like really bad optics to me. I can't recall another VP pick that came with a complete domestic policy agenda.

Agreed, stupid primary discussion point. I'd be pushing the National Debt Lie (President Obama said he was going to bring us back to pre-Bush level debt within 4 years.) with full force. The American voter soaked that up and it won the "hearts and minds" of millions, but it was never based on reality. Should Romney's campaign be better served to discuss the reality of the change we actually got? For instance, the accelerated national debt increase.

2000 - $5.7B (At GWB inauguration)
2004 - $7.4B (At GWB re-election)
2008 - $10.1B (At Obama inauguration)
2012 - $16.0B (At Obama re-election campaign)
2016 - ?

JPhillips

08-11-2012 09:02 AM

The Ryan budget won't balance until 2040. It actually increases the short term deficit.

mckerney

08-11-2012 09:08 AM

They want to talk about reducing the debt/deficit while also proposing massive tax cuts? Well, okay then...

Dutch

08-11-2012 09:13 AM

So far it sounds like we are skirting the issue. :)

panerd

08-11-2012 09:25 AM

Everyone will mock it but here is the onl candidate talking about an actual plan.

The Economy and Taxes

Edward64

08-11-2012 09:31 AM

High level Ryan Budget plan.

Still not sure if I like him, continuing with my research.

What is the Ryan budget? - First Read

Quote:

If you're already not familiar with the term, you'll certainly hear it over the next three months -- the Ryan budget.

What is it?

It substantially restructures Medicare; cuts Medicaid, food stamps, and transportation infrastructure; and it reduces the top tax rate from 35% to 25%. Regarding Medicare, the 2011 version of the Ryan budget would transform it from a government-run program to one where future seniors receive a voucher or premium support to purchase health insurance from private insurers. The Congressional Budget Office said the plan would force most seniors to pay more for their health care than under the current Medicare system. The latest version, however, would give future seniors the choice of purchasing private insurance or through Medicare's traditional fee-for-service model, and it received the backing of at least one Democrat, Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR).

Ryan and his allies say a bold plan - reforming entitlements like Medicare and Medicaid - and slashing discretionary spending is needed to reduce the deficit and debt. But critics argue that the pain comes primarily from the poor and middle class. An analysis from the liberal-leaning Center on Budget Policies and Priorities says that 62% of the spending cuts in the Ryan budget would come from low-income programs, while 37% of its tax benefits would go to those making more than $1 million per year.

JPhillips

08-11-2012 10:16 AM

It is not a serious plan. It takes thirty years to balance if you believe the unspecified tax reforms will ever happen. It isn't about the deficit, it's about eliminating the New Deal.

Edward64

08-11-2012 07:06 PM

No, I don't think he gets the credit, just an interesting note.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48613404...ks_and_economy

Quote:

Barack Obama often gets slammed for his stewardship of the U.S. economy, but for stock investors, he's been one of the best presidents since World War Two.

At 1,400, the S&P 500 on Friday was closing in on a four-year high and was up 74 percent since January 20, 2009, the day Obama took office. Not since Dwight Eisenhower's first term has a president had such a strong run for their first term.

JonInMiddleGA

08-11-2012 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2699941)

I can't recall another VP pick that came with a complete domestic policy agenda.

Almost a rhetorical question I suppose but .. I wonder how many VP picks had been as {struggles for right word} engaged in the specifics of some broad element of policy?

What I'm trying to get at is that -- using McCain for example -- campaign finance reform is not as broad as issue as overall budgeting.

Ryan comes with a large segment of domestic policy agenda because he's chosen to attach himself to one of those big segments. (Because, IMO, he figures himself a future President and needed to find a niche to elevate his profile with). If BO had ended up with Hillary as a running mate, she would have come with a similar high-profile/large scale agenda.

Not sure what the dynamic of that being uncommon actually is (never really thought too much about it until you raised the point, tbh). Are those big item people not inclined to be somebody's #2, are they failed primary opponents & there's bad blood, are they too threatening to the guy at the top of the ticket? Dunno the answer, but for that matter maybe someone will point out that there are a lot of those folks & neither you nor I are giving past veep candidates proper credit.

sterlingice

08-11-2012 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2700129)

No, I don't think he gets the credit, just an interesting note.

Analysis: Obama presidency great for stocks - Business - Stocks & economy - NBCNews.com

To be fair, that's from digging out of the mess that the stock market was in after the freefall of 2008

SI

RainMaker

08-11-2012 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2700151)

To be fair, that's from digging out of the mess that the stock market was in after the freefall of 2008

I agree, but the Republicans did blame him when the stock market dropped when he was elected. So if they used that against him, they have to accept it when he uses it for him.

Edward64

08-11-2012 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2700151)

To be fair, that's from digging out of the mess that the stock market was in after the freefall of 2008

SI

I do think an argument can be made that he/team/policies stopped the freefall.

RainMaker

08-11-2012 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2699987)

Everyone will mock it but here is the onl candidate talking about an actual plan.

The Economy and Taxes

The public doesn't want to cut the things he wants to cut. It's not that people are ignoring him, it's just he holds an extreme minority position.

JPhillips

08-11-2012 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 2700148)

I think it's the last. Today Romney called Ryan the intellectual leader of the GOP. What other candidate would give away that mantle? Can you imagine Reagan saying his running mate is the one with the ideas? Clinton? It's just very strange that the campaign is going to be about the policy prescriptions of the VP nominee not the guy at the top.

In the end I think that will sink Romney more than any specific proposal from the Ryan budget. Romney can't afford to be the second banana, it makes him look weak.

Edward64

08-11-2012 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2700168)

I think its too soon to tell if its good/bad, however it is refreshing to have a VP play a key role in administration/policy vs second fiddle. This is really an intriguing pick for me.

As healthcare needed a major shakeup to change the dynamics (for better or worse), I do think the budget needs a major shakeup also to change the dynamics.

JonInMiddleGA

08-11-2012 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2700168)

Romney can't afford to be the second banana, it makes him look weak.

As opposed to the largely wishy-washy half-assed candidate he is already? How much worse can he actually get?

bronconick

08-11-2012 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2700181)

Having a VP play a role in a certain part of government isn't a new thing. Both Cheney and Biden had foreign policy experience the top of the ticket didn't have.

For all intents and purposes, "the budget" is the government. Outside of the occasional flag burning amendment/renaming monuments, everything in Washington comes back to the budget. If Ryan's the go to guy on that, why the hell do we need Romney around?

RainMaker

08-11-2012 08:51 PM

I don't see why it's a big deal. This is a person who would be a heartbeat away from assuming the role of the President. They should be qualified and intelligent. I'd take it over someone who couldn't pass a high school Civics class like Palin anyday.

JPhillips

08-11-2012 08:52 PM

Of course Romney is also saying he isn't running on the Ryan budget. Why pick the intellectual leader of the GOP if you aren't going to support the one thing that made him the intellectual leader? I gather that Romney understands the Ryan budget is poisonous, but then why pick him at all?

RainMaker

08-11-2012 09:21 PM

He supports the Ryan budget and has said he'd sign it into law. So he might not be "running on it", but it's part of his platform.

Edward64

08-11-2012 09:45 PM

I like the 20% of GDP by 2015.

What is the 'Ryan plan'? Budget proposal back in spotlight with VP announcement | Fox News

Quote:

With Rep. Paul Ryan selected as Mitt Romney's running mate, voters will be hearing a lot about the so-called "Ryan" plan.

So what is it?

Though each party has strong feelings about what Ryan's controversial budget proposal entails, here are a few highlights. Just the facts:

The latest full-scale version of the plan, unveiled in March, vows to cut spending by $5 trillion over the next decade, compared against President Obama's plan.
The plan would, a decade from now, give seniors the option of taking a government payment to purchase health insurance. That payment could be used to buy a private insurance plan, or go toward the traditional Medicare plan. The plan calls for extra assistance to help low-income beneficiaries and those with "greater health risks."
The plan would overhaul Medicaid by turning it into a block grant system for states.
The plan would cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent. It would implement two individual income tax brackets -- 10 percent and 25 percent.
The plan would head off the scheduled automatic defense cuts, first by diverting the planned $55 million defense cut in 2013 by implementing those cuts elsewhere.
The plan vows to bring the size of government to 20 percent of GDP by 2015.

JPhillips

08-11-2012 09:49 PM

Not anymore. From a memo distributed by his campaign today:

Quote:

1) Does this mean Mitt Romney is adopting the Paul Ryan plan?

· Gov. Romney applauds Paul Ryan for going in the right direction with his budget, and as president he will be putting together his own plan for cutting the deficit and putting the budget on a path to balance.

miked

08-12-2012 06:51 AM

Didn't Ryan want to eliminate capital gains taxes? That would mean Romney wouldn't pay any taxes. But I guess it would stimulate the economy.

lcjjdnh

08-12-2012 06:55 AM

With Ryan, Romney Casts Spotlight on Budget Details - NYTimes.com

Quote:

Nonpartisan analyses of Mr. Ryan’s proposed income tax cuts reached conclusions much like those of Mr. Romney’s tax proposals in recent weeks. “The tax cuts in Paul Ryan’s 2013 budget plan would result in huge benefits for high-income people and very modest — or no — benefits for low-income working households,” Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Urban Institute, a policy research organization, wrote in summarizing the findings of the Tax Policy Center.

The center is a joint effort of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution that includes economists and tax experts with experience in both Republican and Democratic administrations. It concluded that a tax-code overhaul meeting Mr. Romney’s goal — a 20 percent cut in all rates without adding to annual budget deficits — would leave wealthy taxpayers with a large tax cut but 95 percent of Americans with a net tax increase once tax breaks for items like mortgage interest are curtailed to keep deficits in check.

Edward64

08-12-2012 07:15 AM

Reps argument on Obama's broken promises. Although factual, other than for Guantanamo (who really cares?), I think somewhat weak imo and will be "excused" by lack of bipartisan e.g. the "party of no" tag line.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...ovember-nears/

Quote:

... cast the president as a leader who has not lived up to the rhetoric of his 2008 race.

The following pledges appear to be getting the most attention:

Cut the Deficit in Half: The Romney campaign and other Republicans have repeatedly pointed out what they consider to be the biggest broken promise – the president vowing shortly after taking office to cut an inherited deficit in half by the end of his first term.
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Fix the Economy: Regardless of when the country’s economic problems started, the president also vowed during his campaign to fix the economy in three years. Fourteen months later, he said missing the deadline would make his presidency a “one-term proposition.”
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Close Guantanamo Bay: Obama has also so far been unable to shutter the Guantanamo Bay military prison in Cuba, though this is more of a concern for Obama's base than Republicans.
:
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Televise Health Care Debate: Obama also said repeatedly in his run for the White House – in TV ads, on the campaign trail and in at least one debate – that the negotiations on his health care reform plan would be televised, if he were elected. However, final health care talks, including the meetings between House and Senate conferees, were held behind closed doors.
:
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Increase Transparency: Obama once predicted that his administration would have an “unprecedented” level of transparency.

And the Dems rebuttal (which I think is fair) ...

Quote:

Obama supporters point to several promises that Obama has fulfilled, primarily reforming health care as well as making good on vows to overhaul the financial industry and help commercial-bank customers with a credit card bill of rights.

In addition, he has partially fulfilled a promise to end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq: The Iraq war is officially over while roughly 80,000 U.S. troops remain in Afghanistan. Obama is still drawing down the U.S. force there.

The administration and other Democrats also have repeatedly argued they had no idea about the depth of the economic downturn upon taking office.

“Republicans need to ask themselves the Reagan question but say, 'Are you better off than you were four-and-a-half years ago,'" said Democratic strategist David Heller of Main Street Communications. “Wall Street cracked and the economy cratered on George W. Bush’s watch.”

Edward64

08-12-2012 07:23 AM

Thought this was a good read.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,356566.story

Quote:

With his surprise decision to run with Rep. Paul D. Ryan, Mitt Romney did something truly rare in today's politics: He united the left and the right.

Both sides loved the vice presidential choice. For Romney and his fellow Republicans, the selection of the author of a controversial plan to shrink the size of government served to fire up the party's conservative base. For President Obama and fellow Democrats, the pick offered a way to divert focus from the president's record on jobs and the economy to the Republican effort to alter Medicare and domestic programs.

Whichever side is right, Romney appears to have concluded that success was iffy on his original course — to make the election a referendum on Obama. The new and decidedly different trajectory will make the fall election more of a choice between contrasting visions of the future — a frame that Obama had already been attempting to put around the contest.

"Romney must have recognized that what he was doing was not working and he needed to shake the race up," said Scott Reed, who managed Republican nominee Bob Dole's presidential campaign in 1996.

"He's rolled the dice. The conservative base is now really energized," he added.

Jon	08-12-2012 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2700195)

Remember though-- Romney is the guy who is also not running on his greatest political accomishment.

JPhillips

08-12-2012 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked (Post 2700276)

Didn't Ryan want to eliminate capital gains taxes? That would mean Romney wouldn't pay any taxes. But I guess it would stimulate the economy.

One analysis had Romney paying a little less than 1% based on Ryan's plan.

DaddyTorgo

08-12-2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked (Post 2700276)

Didn't Ryan want to eliminate capital gains taxes? That would mean Romney wouldn't pay any taxes. But I guess it would stimulate the economy.

Read an article the other day that under the Ryan budget that Romney's tax rate for the years he has released his returns would have been 0.82%.

Chew on that.

DaddyTorgo

08-12-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2700287)

One analysis had Romney paying a little less than 1% based on Ryan's plan.

Just to source this point (which I hadn't noticed you made too) - it was an article in The Atlantic.

Mitt Romney Would Pay 0.82 Percent in Taxes Under Paul Ryan's Plan - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic

Edward64

08-12-2012 10:08 AM

The Tea Party angle.

I really do like how there is so much clear contrast between the 2 parties on domestic issues.

Ryan Brings the Tea Party to the Ticket - NYTimes.com

Quote:

For two years, Tea Party lawmakers in the House have been the stubborn barbarians at the gate, strong-arming their often reluctant Republican colleagues by refusing to compromise on spending, taxes, debt or social policy.

But Paul Ryan’s ascendency to No. 2 spot on the Republican ticket is a signal event for a movement that counts him as one of their own. If Mitt Romney wins in November, a Tea Party favorite will be a heartbeat from the Oval Office.

More than that, Mr. Ryan is now unquestionably the face of the Tea Party caucus in Washington, and his success is certain to embolden House lawmakers whose proudly unyielding approach to governing has contributed to legislative gridlock.

mauchow

08-12-2012 10:13 AM

Let's call him by his real name -- Willard Romney

sterlingice

08-12-2012 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauboy1 (Post 2700330)

Let's call him by his real name -- Willard Romney

That would really help the stereotype that he's just a rich, white guy :D

SI

Dutch

08-12-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2700353)

That would really help the stereotype that he's just a rich, white guy :D

SI

Well shit, we should just start calling Obama that too then.

RainMaker

08-13-2012 11:12 AM

I don't know how you can get rid of the massive deficit if rich people are paying no taxes. That's like eliminating 10% of your tax revenue immediately. Probably more as most businesses would choose to pay in stock options instead of salary.

Edward64

08-15-2012 06:47 AM

I support increased immigration of educated, skilled workers. Honestly not sure about this though. The cynic in me says it was Obama thinking ahead on the 2012 elections.

Young immigrants to apply for Dream Act protection Wednesday - The Washington Post

Quote:

The Obama administration will kick off one of the most sweeping changes in immigration policy in decades Wednesday, allowing an estimated 1.7 million young undocumented immigrants to apply for the temporary right to live and work openly in the United States without fear of deportation.

Immigrants have waited for final details of the plan in the two months since President Obama pledged to brush aside years of congressional stalemate over the Dream Act and grant de facto residency to qualified immigrants who were brought to the country as children.
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The program is open to immigrants ages 15 to 31 who came to the country before they were 16 and have lived here continuously for at least the past five years. Among other restrictions, they must be free of serious criminal convictions, be enrolled in or have completed high school, or have served in the U.S. military. On Tuesday, officials confirmed that those enrolled in GED programs and certain training programs will also qualify, broadening the program’s potential reach.

SirFozzie

08-15-2012 08:28 PM

Is it me or is a major part of Romney's "Hey, Obama's being a meanie" rants seeming a bit hypocritical to you?

A) The last few campaigns saw a TON of really negative campaigning going on (Swift Boating, anyone?).

B) All during the run up, the Romney campaign systematically buried each challenger as they rose under a barrage of negative ads.. (almost like whack a mole.. one would pop up, get blitzed, next one would pop up..)

C) All during the fund raising campain, republicans bragged how they would have a massive warchest and just bury Obama with negative ads..

To me, it's kinda like the Romney campaign is saying "Hey, the Democrats aren't being the punching bags we expect them to!" and "They stole our plan!"

sterlingice

08-15-2012 08:32 PM

It's all theater and politics just like it always is. Obama is likeable even if his policies are not (and that second point is arguable like the whole "people hate Obamacare but like all the provisions in it") so if you can take away some of that luster, it makes it easier for Mitt

SI

mckerney

08-15-2012 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie (Post 2702019)

It's right up there with Romney touting his business background as his main qualification and then crying foul when Obama starts talking about Romney's business background.

Dutch

08-15-2012 08:41 PM

You know, I was waiting for somebody, anybody to stand up to express to us all just how mean that Mitt Romney guy is. I mean, he's all secretive...and hypocritical...and mean...and hates women (and uh....black people of course)...and I don't think he likes Jews or hispanics either...and...what other major voting block is there...oh yes...teh gays....he hates them. He's just so mean and it shows in his campaign. Granted, I get that Obama doesn't do anything important or take responsibility for being...you know...the President...but he does take rich peoples money and provides us with free condoms and stuff...and he's so pleasant and his smile is to die for. I'm def voting Obama.

Dutch

08-15-2012 08:50 PM

What?

Dutch

08-15-2012 08:50 PM

Crapshoot

08-15-2012 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 2702026)

Are you drunk?

Dutch

08-16-2012 08:13 AM

I was just backing up the awesomeness of the Democratic Party. It's so nice.

Marc Vaughan

08-16-2012 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2701568)

I support increased immigration of educated, skilled workers. Honestly not sure about this though. The cynic in me says it was Obama thinking ahead on the 2012 elections.

Is this not allowing people who are already here but forced to work jobs which don't pay tax (ie. off the radar) to get jobs which pay tax? ...

(I imagine if you're an illegal immigrant then getting health insurance is also problematic? - which again means when they are seriously ill they have no cover .. this again should help with this?)

DaddyTorgo

08-16-2012 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2701568)

I'm not familiar with the final wording of the Dream Act. Does it give them citizenship right away? Even so, they wouldn't be able to register to vote in time for the 2012 elections methinks. Methinks your cynicism is a bit misguided here.

Peregrine

08-16-2012 09:45 AM

From what I have read, the pseudo-Dream act won't give anyone citizenship, now or later. It simply lets people who meet certain qualifications apply for a two year deferment from being deported, and after those two years they can apply to be extended on a case by case basis. Now the Dream Act that stalled in Congress would have allowed citizenship, but what the President put into place is not the same thing.

You can read all the details here - the FAQ makes clear that this deferral does not include any path to citizenship.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...00082ca60aRCRD

"Does deferred action provide me with a path to permanent residence status or citizenship?
No. Deferred action is a form of prosecutorial discretion that does not confer lawful permanent resident status or a path to citizenship. Only the Congress, acting through its legislative authority, can confer these rights."

DaddyTorgo

08-16-2012 09:49 AM

Aaaah.

Good stuff.

So yes - misguided cynicism Edward.

JediKooter

08-16-2012 10:37 AM

So Romney asked for previous tax records from Ryan? Pot, meet kettle.

lungs

08-16-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrine (Post 2702142)

You can read all the details here - the FAQ makes clear that this deferral does not include any path to citizenship.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...00082ca60aRCRD

Thanks for the link. I've got a guy working for me that may be eligible for this. He's kind of been a project of mine. He came here at 14, went to high school for a few years to learn English then dropped out. I hired him when he was 22 and it has kind of been a process like breaking a wild horse. He's really starting to come around and mature now. He's enrolled to get his GED and has some potential and has shown some interest in diesel mechanics (his job for me is feeding the cows but that involves a fair amount of mechanical work too). He has a son and I know health insurance was brought up a few posts back and we pay his health insurance.

The only possibly sticky part of him when it comes to this is that he got a battery conviction when he was 18. The link says that domestic violence will disqualify somebody but I'm not sure what is considered domestic? I know the story here and it wasn't a family member or wife or girlfriend but it was a female. Knowing who he was convicted of battering I'm pretty sure he was probably the one defending himself but being the male, he was the one arrested and convicted. He didn't go to jail and successfully served 18 months of probation and hasn't been in trouble since.

I guess I'll just help him apply and see what happens.

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