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Agreed, stupid primary discussion point. I'd be pushing the National Debt Lie (President Obama said he was going to bring us back to pre-Bush level debt within 4 years.) with full force. The American voter soaked that up and it won the "hearts and minds" of millions, but it was never based on reality. Should Romney's campaign be better served to discuss the reality of the change we actually got? For instance, the accelerated national debt increase. 2000 - $5.7B (At GWB inauguration) 2004 - $7.4B (At GWB re-election) 2008 - $10.1B (At Obama inauguration) 2012 - $16.0B (At Obama re-election campaign) 2016 - ? |
The Ryan budget won't balance until 2040. It actually increases the short term deficit.
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They want to talk about reducing the debt/deficit while also proposing massive tax cuts? Well, okay then...
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So far it sounds like we are skirting the issue. :)
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Everyone will mock it but here is the onl candidate talking about an actual plan.
The Economy and Taxes |
High level Ryan Budget plan.
Still not sure if I like him, continuing with my research. What is the Ryan budget? - First Read Quote:
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It is not a serious plan. It takes thirty years to balance if you believe the unspecified tax reforms will ever happen. It isn't about the deficit, it's about eliminating the New Deal.
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No, I don't think he gets the credit, just an interesting note.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48613404...ks_and_economy Quote:
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Almost a rhetorical question I suppose but .. I wonder how many VP picks had been as {struggles for right word} engaged in the specifics of some broad element of policy? What I'm trying to get at is that -- using McCain for example -- campaign finance reform is not as broad as issue as overall budgeting. Ryan comes with a large segment of domestic policy agenda because he's chosen to attach himself to one of those big segments. (Because, IMO, he figures himself a future President and needed to find a niche to elevate his profile with). If BO had ended up with Hillary as a running mate, she would have come with a similar high-profile/large scale agenda. Not sure what the dynamic of that being uncommon actually is (never really thought too much about it until you raised the point, tbh). Are those big item people not inclined to be somebody's #2, are they failed primary opponents & there's bad blood, are they too threatening to the guy at the top of the ticket? Dunno the answer, but for that matter maybe someone will point out that there are a lot of those folks & neither you nor I are giving past veep candidates proper credit. |
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To be fair, that's from digging out of the mess that the stock market was in after the freefall of 2008 SI |
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I agree, but the Republicans did blame him when the stock market dropped when he was elected. So if they used that against him, they have to accept it when he uses it for him. |
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I do think an argument can be made that he/team/policies stopped the freefall. |
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The public doesn't want to cut the things he wants to cut. It's not that people are ignoring him, it's just he holds an extreme minority position. |
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I think it's the last. Today Romney called Ryan the intellectual leader of the GOP. What other candidate would give away that mantle? Can you imagine Reagan saying his running mate is the one with the ideas? Clinton? It's just very strange that the campaign is going to be about the policy prescriptions of the VP nominee not the guy at the top. In the end I think that will sink Romney more than any specific proposal from the Ryan budget. Romney can't afford to be the second banana, it makes him look weak. |
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I think its too soon to tell if its good/bad, however it is refreshing to have a VP play a key role in administration/policy vs second fiddle. This is really an intriguing pick for me. As healthcare needed a major shakeup to change the dynamics (for better or worse), I do think the budget needs a major shakeup also to change the dynamics. |
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As opposed to the largely wishy-washy half-assed candidate he is already? How much worse can he actually get? |
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Having a VP play a role in a certain part of government isn't a new thing. Both Cheney and Biden had foreign policy experience the top of the ticket didn't have. For all intents and purposes, "the budget" is the government. Outside of the occasional flag burning amendment/renaming monuments, everything in Washington comes back to the budget. If Ryan's the go to guy on that, why the hell do we need Romney around? |
I don't see why it's a big deal. This is a person who would be a heartbeat away from assuming the role of the President. They should be qualified and intelligent. I'd take it over someone who couldn't pass a high school Civics class like Palin anyday.
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Of course Romney is also saying he isn't running on the Ryan budget. Why pick the intellectual leader of the GOP if you aren't going to support the one thing that made him the intellectual leader? I gather that Romney understands the Ryan budget is poisonous, but then why pick him at all?
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He supports the Ryan budget and has said he'd sign it into law. So he might not be "running on it", but it's part of his platform.
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I like the 20% of GDP by 2015.
What is the 'Ryan plan'? Budget proposal back in spotlight with VP announcement | Fox News Quote:
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Not anymore. From a memo distributed by his campaign today:
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Didn't Ryan want to eliminate capital gains taxes? That would mean Romney wouldn't pay any taxes. But I guess it would stimulate the economy.
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With Ryan, Romney Casts Spotlight on Budget Details - NYTimes.com
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Reps argument on Obama's broken promises. Although factual, other than for Guantanamo (who really cares?), I think somewhat weak imo and will be "excused" by lack of bipartisan e.g. the "party of no" tag line.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...ovember-nears/ Quote:
And the Dems rebuttal (which I think is fair) ... Quote:
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Thought this was a good read.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,356566.story Quote:
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Remember though-- Romney is the guy who is also not running on his greatest political accomishment. |
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One analysis had Romney paying a little less than 1% based on Ryan's plan. |
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Read an article the other day that under the Ryan budget that Romney's tax rate for the years he has released his returns would have been 0.82%. Chew on that. |
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Just to source this point (which I hadn't noticed you made too) - it was an article in The Atlantic. Mitt Romney Would Pay 0.82 Percent in Taxes Under Paul Ryan's Plan - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic |
The Tea Party angle.
I really do like how there is so much clear contrast between the 2 parties on domestic issues. Ryan Brings the Tea Party to the Ticket - NYTimes.com Quote:
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Let's call him by his real name -- Willard Romney
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That would really help the stereotype that he's just a rich, white guy :D SI |
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Well shit, we should just start calling Obama that too then. |
I don't know how you can get rid of the massive deficit if rich people are paying no taxes. That's like eliminating 10% of your tax revenue immediately. Probably more as most businesses would choose to pay in stock options instead of salary.
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I support increased immigration of educated, skilled workers. Honestly not sure about this though. The cynic in me says it was Obama thinking ahead on the 2012 elections.
Young immigrants to apply for Dream Act protection Wednesday - The Washington Post Quote:
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Is it me or is a major part of Romney's "Hey, Obama's being a meanie" rants seeming a bit hypocritical to you?
A) The last few campaigns saw a TON of really negative campaigning going on (Swift Boating, anyone?). B) All during the run up, the Romney campaign systematically buried each challenger as they rose under a barrage of negative ads.. (almost like whack a mole.. one would pop up, get blitzed, next one would pop up..) C) All during the fund raising campain, republicans bragged how they would have a massive warchest and just bury Obama with negative ads.. To me, it's kinda like the Romney campaign is saying "Hey, the Democrats aren't being the punching bags we expect them to!" and "They stole our plan!" |
It's all theater and politics just like it always is. Obama is likeable even if his policies are not (and that second point is arguable like the whole "people hate Obamacare but like all the provisions in it") so if you can take away some of that luster, it makes it easier for Mitt
SI |
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It's right up there with Romney touting his business background as his main qualification and then crying foul when Obama starts talking about Romney's business background. |
You know, I was waiting for somebody, anybody to stand up to express to us all just how mean that Mitt Romney guy is. I mean, he's all secretive...and hypocritical...and mean...and hates women (and uh....black people of course)...and I don't think he likes Jews or hispanics either...and...what other major voting block is there...oh yes...teh gays....he hates them. He's just so mean and it shows in his campaign. Granted, I get that Obama doesn't do anything important or take responsibility for being...you know...the President...but he does take rich peoples money and provides us with free condoms and stuff...and he's so pleasant and his smile is to die for. I'm def voting Obama.
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What?
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:)
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Are you drunk? |
I was just backing up the awesomeness of the Democratic Party. It's so nice.
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Is this not allowing people who are already here but forced to work jobs which don't pay tax (ie. off the radar) to get jobs which pay tax? ... (I imagine if you're an illegal immigrant then getting health insurance is also problematic? - which again means when they are seriously ill they have no cover .. this again should help with this?) |
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I'm not familiar with the final wording of the Dream Act. Does it give them citizenship right away? Even so, they wouldn't be able to register to vote in time for the 2012 elections methinks. Methinks your cynicism is a bit misguided here. |
From what I have read, the pseudo-Dream act won't give anyone citizenship, now or later. It simply lets people who meet certain qualifications apply for a two year deferment from being deported, and after those two years they can apply to be extended on a case by case basis. Now the Dream Act that stalled in Congress would have allowed citizenship, but what the President put into place is not the same thing.
You can read all the details here - the FAQ makes clear that this deferral does not include any path to citizenship. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...00082ca60aRCRD "Does deferred action provide me with a path to permanent residence status or citizenship? No. Deferred action is a form of prosecutorial discretion that does not confer lawful permanent resident status or a path to citizenship. Only the Congress, acting through its legislative authority, can confer these rights." |
Aaaah.
Good stuff. So yes - misguided cynicism Edward. |
So Romney asked for previous tax records from Ryan? Pot, meet kettle.
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Thanks for the link. I've got a guy working for me that may be eligible for this. He's kind of been a project of mine. He came here at 14, went to high school for a few years to learn English then dropped out. I hired him when he was 22 and it has kind of been a process like breaking a wild horse. He's really starting to come around and mature now. He's enrolled to get his GED and has some potential and has shown some interest in diesel mechanics (his job for me is feeding the cows but that involves a fair amount of mechanical work too). He has a son and I know health insurance was brought up a few posts back and we pay his health insurance. The only possibly sticky part of him when it comes to this is that he got a battery conviction when he was 18. The link says that domestic violence will disqualify somebody but I'm not sure what is considered domestic? I know the story here and it wasn't a family member or wife or girlfriend but it was a female. Knowing who he was convicted of battering I'm pretty sure he was probably the one defending himself but being the male, he was the one arrested and convicted. He didn't go to jail and successfully served 18 months of probation and hasn't been in trouble since. I guess I'll just help him apply and see what happens. |
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