Obviously I lean conservative on most fiscal things but I find it really off-putting that so many politicians who tell us we shouldn't be suspicious of their wealth act to make us more suspicious of their wealth. Either they're ashamed of their money or they have something bad to hide. It's not just Romney, a lot of others have declined to put the returns out there this week. It really cuts to the core of their claimed position on things.

Um...yeah that worked really well when we tried it with William Henry Harrison.

Except now, you need at least a billion to run. So better be damn sure you want the rigors (and benefits, sure) of the job.

There needs to be more references to William Henry Harrison in the political threads.

And yes, in my fantasy world the best president would be someone who doesn't want to run, and in fact, doesn't have the political influence to get that billion to run. if it was his own billion though and he or she was running as an independent, I believe he (or she) would be probably be a more sincere candidate that stood for something (or they could just be aiming for global domination).

We tried that experiment with Ross Perot. I do believe Ross was sincere, would have been a good experiment but, I think, ultimately a failure.

The Koch brothers are kind of doing it by their support of the Tea Party.

Wouldn't you have a weak leader then? If everyone knows that the candidates are reluctant to the position and have no financial backing from anyone, what good is it when they have to deal with issues? No one is going to respect a president that A) didn't want the job and B) has no support to get anything done

At least with the Repulicans and Democrats there is a driver to do things based on idealogy (I guess).

Sincerity is overrated, the last sincere president we probably had was Lincoln and that was during one of the most conflicted bloodiest periods of history in the US.

There are really great leaders all over American society and in non-political government positions. I don't think that quality is exclusive to successful politicians. I think it's actually probably a hindrance in rising through the ranks of a national party, if it's combined with standing for something and being ethical.

Perot really resonated with a lot of people for a while. People were on-board with the general concept. He just wasn't the right guy to pull it off.

He sucked all the fiscal conservatives off Bush but could not get the moderate liberals off Clinton.

There was that crazy admiral dude he had for his VP as well.

Yes, that guy scared me in the VP debates. It was pretty obvious he was not the right person to be a heartbeat away. Perot really should have done a better job there.

I think you want to vote for Utah Phillips.

He definitely took voters from both. When Perot dropped out the first time, it was Clinton that gained the most from it. He moved from 3rd to 1st. Perot stole fiscal conservatives from Bush, but he also stole change voters from Clinton.

Ross Perot, I get. The Koch brothers? Huh?

SI

Agreed.

Oh, Golden Age Simpsons:

"We are the mediocre presidents.
You won't find our faces on dollars or on cents!
There's Taylor, there's Tyler, there's Fillmore and there's Hayes.
There's William Henry Harrison, ``I died in thirty days!''
We... are... the... adequate, forgettable, occasionally regrettable
Caretaker presidents of the U-S-A!"

SI

Plurality Wins in the 1992 Presidential Race: Perot's Contribution to Clinton's Victory

Well, except it's never really been true. Exit polls had Perot siphoning evenly off of Bush and Clinton and even the most optimistic projection still has Clinton winning the Electoral College.

SI

Assuming Perot had won, he wouldn't have been able to get anything done. Neither the GOP or Dems would have had any reason to work with him.

That wouldn't have gone over very well with a populace that had just utterly rejected the 2-party system to elect a silly billionaire. That kind of congressional response would have just led to more change and maybe a splintering of the parties.

Koch brothers are the $ behind the Tea Party.

Romney Campaign Memo: The Koch Brothers Are The 'Financial Engine Of The Tea Party' | ThinkProgress

I get that part of it. I just don't get how the Koch brothers stood for anything except the aforementioned global domination

SI

I think global domination is the least of their priorities. I think they are more isolationists than anything else.

Tea Party movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or both parties would have said Perot is a failure you need to go back to someone who can work with congress to get things done. Some in congress would be afraid of not working with Perot,but nowhere close to a majority. Perot would either have to drift closer to one of the parties or end up a lame duck starting on inauguration day.

I get this from both candidates, or for any politician.

The only story I've heard of was students harassing recruiters. :)

Since my son just went through this, I will say that nobody ever approached him. He had to find them, but business is good when the economy sucks.

Please explain. :)

I think it's progress. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward.

Obama is running against a guy whose religion teaches that God lives in a planet called Kolob.

A rag tag fugitive fleet...

FWIW......most people who are members of a religion don't follow or believe every teaching of that religion. I don't think he's going to make any budget or ethical decisions that will be in any way altered by his belief (or lack of belief) in the planet (or metaphor) known as Kolob.

There's plenty of very good reasons to like or dislike Romney. A teaching that even Mormons regularly disagree amongst themselves as to what it really means is way down that list of reasons.

This is a frequent criticism I hear of the Mormans and agree and laugh with people at it. I only wish people would see how silly the story of Jesus is as well and take Bush, Obama, etc to task. Only when an atheist runs for office will the "calling out" of ones religion become a legit argument IMO.

Jesus and his zombie army at the second coming, and the ritualistic eating of his flesh and blood every Sunday is silly as well.

Being a non-practicing Catholic (been quite some time now) and an agnostic, I just like poking fun at religion in general. :P

Imagine the fun if a Scientologist ran for office.

I agree. I just wish people could see how implausable Chrsitainity is through the same eyes they use to mock Islam and Scientology. But since by random chance most were born in a Christian country it makes perfect sense that Jesus is the answer while Tom Cruise and John Travolta are insane.

After explaining yourself though I see the point of view you are bringing and agree 100%.

Are the actual religions the annoying part or the belief people have in them and their insistance that their beliefs are better?

Just not a fan of organized religion. All of the good they do (and as an atheist I still believe they do a lot of good) could be accomplished without trying to provide answers through superhero/fairy tale type stories. I have no idea what the real "answers" are but using simple logic can say that if there are X religions with different Gods than at least X-1 of them are wrong. (Most likely all X are wrong)

Well I am fine with all religions doing what they do, even with proselytizing, but when they get involved with politics is where a lot of trouble gets started.

Mizzou_BB_Fan is a homer

"Life here, began....out there..."

Mitt Romney Avoided Major Tax Hit By Shifting Stock Of Offshoring Firm

Good stuff.

Heh. I just searched on Kolob. Lots of interesting info (and rebuttals).

The Planet Kolob | Top 10 Craziest Mormon Beliefs

We've not had a discussion on religion in a while! Someone start a thread?

They always end well!

SI

I really can't understand why both of these guys aren't polling at 30% or so. Obama hasn't done much for his base, or really much in terms of getting a plan to move the economy forward. On the flip side, people like Mitt Romney are a huge part of why the economy doesn't move forward. All Obama team has to do is just make a commercial showing all the companies Bain has helped send jobs overseas and how much stock/$$ Romney got for it. Over and over.

Kudos to McCain for doing whats right.

Michele Bachmann’s baseless attack on Huma Abedin - The Washington Post

Finally!!! :D


Pretty much one of two things pops into my head when mormonism is brought up.
1. The original Battlestar Galactica
2. What's crazier? scientology or mormonism?

Wow, just fucking wow.

It's Bachmann, absolute zero surprise by this. Something tells me she has a vibrator that she's named, Joe McCarthy.

I realize that rules are different for politicians, but wouldn't comments like this approach the level of libel/slander?

I think Abedin could probably pursue that avenue. But, I'm not totally sure though.

But it would just prove that secretly she's a terrorist!

SI

I foresee Abedin suing Bachmann for libel/slander leading Bachmann to complain about the unfair attacks being directed her way.