The GA law specifically made it illegal for women to do this.

Yep. They wanted to make it unconstitutional squared.

1. Agreed, but not really relevant. They can do it.

2. What obligation do other states have to report to Georgia or Alabama that an abortion was legally done within their jurisdiction?

Bingo.

As I said to Lathum, what power does Georgia have to compel Florida or North Carolina or wherever to inform them that one of their residents performed an action which is legal within the state lines of those states? Is Nevada gonna let CA know that I engaged in legal sports betting there but illegal in my own state of CA?

Second, having a part of the law apply to other states, which are out of Georgia's jurisdiction makes it federal, which Georgia does not have the power to do. This will be struck down pretty quickly.

I would love to know what the activities are that have led to this reaction from the administration. The only problem is I don't trust anything coming from this administration, so I guess knowing what the rationale is would only become an exercise in futility.

I guess the hope is that it's a bluff. But Bolton has wanted war with Iraq for decades.

The one thing I did like about Trump was that he didn't want us to get into these conflicts overseas. He campaigned as an isolationist. I know he's walked that back a lot but seeing him go to war with Iran would be a catastrophe.

Maybe I am a cynic but when I hear talk of war with a middle eastern country, I think to myself I wonder who is going to make money off this war.

Moreover, I am baffled by Trump and his antics. I am amazed that he continues to have harden supporters despite all the evidence against him.

These are crazy times.

After 2003, me too Noop.

They don't but if a woman is pregnant then suddenly not her doctor may have to report it, document it, etc...

I am obviously not a lawyer, and have no idea how it would work, but I am pretty sure the manipulative people enacting these laws have likely thought this through.

Lets also not forget for a lot of people it may not be so easy to jump to the next state over. Alabama especially is poor. People may not have the ability to get a state over and instead could pursue black market options.

The Saudis and Israel. Fighting for the Saudis to get more ships through and boost their slave state. Fighting for Israel so they don't have to spend the money or lives to get what they want.

Meh... feels like a lot of loopholes and unlikely circumstances you're painting. How many can't afford a $20 bus ticket? Or doesn't have a friend who.can drive them.to the border and back? To their doctor "I had a miscarriage and ended up at another hospital with another doctor," followed by confidential etc.etc.

I am not saying you're wrong that it's BS they need to go to these lengths but the ways around it do not seem to be particularly arduous, and prosecution seems iffy at best, and how many DAs are pursuing that when they have enough real crooks to go after?

And that's on top.of the fact that it's almost certainly going to be struck down as unconstitutional anyway.

Don't be so sure of that. IIRC there was a lot of buzz about Roe V Wade being reversed.

It's Alabama. They really don't like women down there.

That's buzz from desperate Christian hardliners and left-leaning web sites using fear to drum up more clicks from their target audiences. The extremes represent the "squeaky wheel" in today's polarized media environment. Don't buy into it. Roe v Wade isn't being overturned.

DAs also don't like falling conviction rates or time spent on a crime that falla significantly below murder, rape, robbery, domestic assault, drug trafficking, etc. Unless the defendant is just daft, she will be hard to prosecute, and the DA will be disinclined to pursue it.

Abortion is already basically illegal in a lot of places due to availability of services. It’s going to be taking a bus and then getting a taxi or Uber to a place that provides services and then at least 4-800$ more for the proecudire. Then another $100 or so for a hotel and you’re up to a grand or more. At least.

Maybe, but GOP lawmakers in several states have been open about the plan to pass the most restrictive abortion bills possible in an effort to get a case in front of the Supreme Court so that Roe v. Wade can be overturned. You're willing to assume a lot about the five conservative justices.

If it happens it will be much more simple than that. A boyfriend or husband will call it in and the police will be "obligated" to investigate.

This is Alabama. They literally came close to sending a pedophile to the Senate.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...earing-n788431


Trust me, they aren't big fans of women down there.

Doesn't the DA work for the government? If it comes down from above it will be prosecuted.

I think you are underestimating just how insane they are down there.

Your evidence is a case where two separate courts ruled in favor of the girl?

It's a numbers game. There will be, what, hundreds, thousands of potential abortion cases? Few of which will be open and shut convictions? Which will be prosecuted over more serious crimes and criminals?

I don't doubt some will be prosecuted, but it's just a losing game for the DA, right from the start.

I'll believe it when I see it.

So most of your $1000 comes from the procedure, which they would have to pay, whether it's legal in their state or not. If they can't afford the abortion itself, it doesn't really matter if it's legal or illegal for them, does it?

Roberts is much more likely to take advantage of the bill(s) to chip away at Roe and Casey, rather than strike it down.

You're saying the DA won't care about this. I'm saying a DA in that state fought hard to not allow a child to abort a fetus conceived from incest rape.

They really don't like women down there. And if a DA wants to last, he has to play to the audience.

It's one case and one asshole DA. Yes, in some of Alabama's back country gumpkin counties, you'll get these on occasion. That doesn't mean that in general this isn't a poor type of prosecution to pursue. It is.

And again the courts basicslly said naw screw you to the DA. So not only did this guy prosecute a loser of a case, he also made it unlikely anyone is going to pursue a similar case, now that a precedent has been established which applies to the whole state. Every time the case is won by the DA, the defendant will appeal and likely win. Every time the DA loses, he will have to consider the likelihood an appeal will fail.

Seems like a winner of a prosecution strategy. Naw, let's just go after slam dunk DUIs and domestic assaults and druggies.

Ive started to reply to this one point and stopped myself about 5 times today because I didnt want this seen as a personal commentary towards you based on our disagreement in the shooter thread.

That said I think its important to post a pretty major quibble here


Most manufacturing jobs these days, while far from 1% territory are much much higher than min wage. Locally the going rate at the big manufacturing sports are $15/hr to start (double min wage) and topping out in the low to mid 20's.

Again not rich but at least close if not squarely middle class.

I love this. The same states that are so worried about over zealous religious rules controlling government are creating over zealous rules based on religious beliefs.

Is 30K a year really considered middle class?

Median wage in the field is $16/hour. And that's boosted a lot by those still in unions. New jobs are unlikely to be unionized. The trend has been to move toward staffing agencies where you don't have to offer benefits and the median wage is just over $11/hour.

If you think it's worth having everyone in the country pay more for stuff to create some low paying jobs is worth it, so be it.

Still think these companies will just move to other countries like they have been when wages went up in China before. So we'd pay around the same for stuff but US companies that rely on exports to China would be fucked.

I still think it's weird we're arguing about tariffs. It was a far-left policy that has been roundly mocked by everyone involved in the economic field for decades. Suddenly conservatives hate free markets.

Speaking of a christian hardliner

https://www.foxnews.com/us/alabama-h...robertson-says

At $20/hr you are at $41,600.
Two adults working yields a household income of $82k.
In 2017 Median household national average was $59k


And in SC...that's a pretty dadgum nice standard of living. I mean 3/2 1200 SFH can still be bought under $100k.

Teachers start out here at $33k and that's with a 4 year degree.
The average manufacturing job works 51 hours a week according to a recent wage and labor conference I was at.

That's 56.5 hours after OT and equals $44k/yr at $15/hr and $59k/yr at $20/hr per person. Putting single income in the capacity and still hitting that median number.
And for unskilled labor yes I think that's a good income.



And BTW I would much, much rather pay more for some goods and employ US workers than I would pay a higher tax rate and support universal income.

Your point about just offshoring elsewhere is very valid and agreed. And I get it we are moving away from a labor economy to a service/intellectual economy.



But we are seeing real job creation in SC right now.
Im jamming right now to get this retrofit finished up: New business approved by Cherokee Co. Council
That is going to bring manufacturing jobs to a small community and just finished up this one: Wheel Pros establishing new manufacturing and distribution operations in York County | South Carolina Department of Commerce

That's over 500 new jobs brought on shore from Chinese manufacturing. Its isnt an all encompassing solution but its a start. ANd those are just project that one small electrical contractor is working on, Im sure my larger competitors are doing many multiples as well.

Again Im no Trump fan, and he's a moron. But job creation, in my area is better than its been in a long time. People are moving for these jobs and that employs tradesmen, and companies like me are building and upfitting these facilities and that employs tradesmen. Its why i talk about the lost perspective sometimes on here.

The idea of "work from home" or mental work is still a real foreign concept to large majorities of this country. Ignoring that is what gave us Trump.

Good fucking luck living anywhere on the West Coast on $30K a year.

And that's definitely part of the disconnect right? Cities and states on the "left" coast have talked about massively increasing the minimum wage, and been largely mocked for it, and people have (rightly) pointed out that nobody is paying $4.50 for a Cheeseburger in McDonalds and all that's doing is increasing the speed that these jobs are going to be replaced by robots or touchscreens.

It's nice that manufacturing jobs are coming back in some areas, and the cost of living is still decent enough in parts of the country can comfortably live a middle class life style, but what about places where that is about as far from the case as you can possibly get?

And that's probably why the state does so poorly in education.

South Carolina is 43rd in median wage. So these jobs aren't paying well. And since the state is also near the bottom in people insured, they aren't offering much in benefits either.


It's the same thing. The higher prices you pay on goods is a tax thanks to the tariffs. And you're doing so to support others maybe getting a low paying job.

You'd be better off paying the higher tax and getting some new bridges, roads, etc out of the deal. Would create better paying jobs and provide something in return to the taxpayer.


Minorities. He got a minority of the vote. And Trump didn't get elected based on a far-left economic ideology that was laughed out of existence decades ago.

Good luck living anywhere on $30k a year if you want a family. Do people who think this is a good wage plan to send their kids to college or ever deal with a medical issue in their life?

Having just gone through a job search in Portland, OR I can tell you there are plenty of people here who still WANT to pay experienced, degreed folks $15/hr or less, but I have no idea where they expect those folks to eat/sleep/clothe themselves for that kind of criminal wage. The average rent in Portland is $1500 a month, rising at a rate of 4% a year.

What passes for an 'Entry Level' job, with the same exact job description can pay $20K/year at one place and $60K at another, largely just depending on the employer's lack of shame or empathy.

When did a good middle class life mean two incomes in order to make that happen?

OMG. You know that is the American way right? Start at the bottom and work your way up. You guys are very entitled.

Nope, not me. I would do all I can to avoid this. Glad I have options and sorry for the less fortunate.

Is this the primary, overriding criteria for all US strategic decisions?

How many people making decisions for this country started at the bottom?

I'm all for TPP. Because Obama was not able to get this done in time before he left, we're left with what we have (voted for).

Yup, sure some rich folks are going to get richer. Is that reason enough to not maintain/enhance our strategic advantage?

So much is broken with the middle class right now it's difficult to use median wage as a sign of a good paying job. At the current median wage housing is eating up a higher percentage of that pay than ever before and there's a reason we've turned to crowd funding for medical bills.

Wage stagnation is a major problem that the right hasn't been willing to accept because they live in a fantasyland where a strong economy and stock market means everyone must be doing well.

The reality of right now is if you're making the median wage as a household you can't run into any health problems, unexpected bills, or much future planning.

Yes, in some locales (albeit on the lower end of the spectrum) and depending on family size.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/24/how-...dle-class.html

That's not at all the American way. This isn't a meritocracy.

American way is inherit a bunch of money from your parents and pretend like you did it all by yourself.

The problem isnt just wage stagnation, its this countries love for credit. Why are credit card companies camping out on college campuses? Surley not because these kids can pay off their debt.

No, the feds set the example; "We are trillions in debt, whats a couple thousand to you?" Well you become enslaved to the credit card companies. Thats the real problem with being in the middle class.

Yep. entitlement

How else do you pay for college or medical treatments if you are middle class?

Wage stagnation and an increase in costs leads to people needing to borrow to pay for life essentials.