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Marc Vaughan 07-02-2012 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2682603)
Honest question. What if an ubber-rich guy didn't want to give any more money (than he is legally supposed to) to the US government because a lot of it is basically going to the military industrial complex. Would you support a humanitarian stance like that?


I'd sympathise with it hugely as I think the amount spent on the military is ludicrous personally, however everyone chooses which society they incorporate within and if you're part of it - you're part of it, subvert it from within through the appropriate methods allowed ... but in the meantime pay your dues or sod off.

Just my personal take on things, if I thought America was a horrible place then I wouldn't live here - there is much to admire in America and its people and I do enjoy living here ... especially now the TV stations have proper soccer channels ;)

That being said no society will ever be the utopia I (or anyone) would totally prefer - that doesn't however mean I won't try and nudge it along in that direction (in the same way I'll never make FM/FMH into a 'perfect' sim, but it won't stop me from trying ;) ).

RainMaker 07-02-2012 05:09 PM

The country did raise almost a million dollars in a week for a lady who got made fun of on a bus. America has it's own unique personality, but some of the stereotypes are overblown.

lungs 07-02-2012 05:19 PM

Just saw an anti-Obama commercial talk about how we should pursue health reform that is patient-centric. WTF is that supposed to mean? Or just another buzz word to make people feel good that conservatives have come up with something when in fact the only thing they've come up with appears to be a buzz word?

Dutch 07-02-2012 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs (Post 2682617)
Just saw an anti-Obama commercial talk about how we should pursue health reform that is patient-centric. WTF is that supposed to mean? Or just another buzz word to make people feel good that conservatives have come up with something when in fact the only thing they've come up with appears to be a buzz word?


I would write a strongly worded letter to whomever funded that commercial and then tell us what they say.

lungs 07-02-2012 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 2682623)
I would write a strongly worded letter to whomever funded that commercial and then tell us what they say.


Haha, I think I'll save my time and effort. It's not just the commercial. Seems like I've been hearing that some form of "patient-centric" health reform being mentioned quite a bit lately, yet I've got no idea what that all entails.

JonInMiddleGA 07-02-2012 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 2682609)
however everyone chooses which society they incorporate within


Even a generally diehard conservative like me has a hard time buying this particular point.

There's roughly a billion Chinese that might beg to differ on the point of "choice", just off the top of my head.

Marc Vaughan 07-02-2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 2682626)
Even a generally diehard conservative like me has a hard time buying this particular point.
There's roughly a billion Chinese that might beg to differ on the point of "choice", just off the top of my head.


At the moment I indicated that I was were discussing the point of a millionaire who was deciding if he wanted to contribute towards the military machine through taxation at the time ...

.... but yes, strictly speaking there will always be people who for economic, medical, legal or whatever restrictions reasons cannot relocate, I wasn't meaning it 'literally' for every case ...

(I had hoped people would realize that)

To answer your point in that case - If you are stuck in a country which supports taxation towards a cause then you make a choice - if its something you abhore enough then stand against it and go to jail (or worse), if you think its wrong but not strongly enough then you pay it but do what you can to persuade for change.

If you want thats what I'm doing here - I like America but there are some aspects I think could be improved .... I'm in a country where I have no legal right to vote* and change things through democratic methods, however I pay my taxes and I do have free speech - as such I'll indicate my support for things which I think would better America and discuss them openly.

*Nothing wrong with this at all, its my choice not to take American citizenship.

Edward64 07-03-2012 06:21 AM

More post mortem polling. Interesting poll in last paragraph.

Poll: Americans split on Supreme Court's healthcare decision - latimes.com
Quote:

Fifty percent of Americans side with the Supreme Court in its ruling Thursday, with 49% disagreeing. As for the law itself, opposition to its provisions has dropped since 2011, the last time CNN asked the same question. More Americans now narrowly favor at least most of its elements (52%), rather than opposing most (47%). That’s a 7-percentage-point swing in favor of the pro-Affordable Care camp, and a 3-percentage-point drop for those against it.

Though approval of the Supreme Court has been on the decline since the early 2000s, a majority of Americans still back the way the court fulfills its duties, 53% to 43%. But delve deeper into those figures, and there’s a sharp divide between Democrats and Republicans in the wake of the court’s healthcare ruling. Seventy-three percent of Democrats approve of the court, compared with just 31% of Republicans.

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., whose vote in the 5-4 ruling was pivotal, and surprising to many, remains in good standing despite a rush of criticism from conservatives for agreeing with the court’s more liberal justices that the healthcare mandate was a tax and thus constitutional. Forty-one percent hold a favorable opinion of him, and just 24% have an unfavorable view. But, as tends to be the case with Supreme Court justices, a full 21% had not heard enough about Roberts to render an opinion.

Still, another poll released Monday found a substantial portion of Americans unaware of the Supreme Court’s decision, despite omnipresent media coverage. The Kaiser Family Foundation poll said 41% of Americans acknowledged being unaware of the court’s ruling


DaddyTorgo 07-03-2012 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs (Post 2682624)
Haha, I think I'll save my time and effort. It's not just the commercial. Seems like I've been hearing that some form of "patient-centric" health reform being mentioned quite a bit lately, yet I've got no idea what that all entails.


I bet it's something "FREEDOM-RIFIC!!!"

Heh.

M GO BLUE!!! 07-03-2012 10:11 AM

BBC News - No evidence of mermaids, says US government

Quote:

There is no evidence that mermaids exist, a US government scientific agency has said.

So since Obama's government lies to us about everything, we must assume mermaids are real! Romney must reverse this declaration if he is elected!

JediKooter 07-03-2012 10:24 AM

As long as they look like Daryl Hannah (back in the Splash days), I'm ok with that.

sterlingice 07-03-2012 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 2682609)
I'd sympathise with it hugely as I think the amount spent on the military is ludicrous personally, however everyone chooses which society they incorporate within and if you're part of it - you're part of it, subvert it from within through the appropriate methods allowed ... but in the meantime pay your dues or sod off.


I think the concept of a social contract has become substantially less pervasive in my lifetime. There are quite a few who seem to think they can pick and choose what part of the social contract to obey. "I don't like parks so I shouldn't have to pay for them". To use your example from above, I don't like wars, but I live in this country so I have to pay for them, too. I can't just not pay my taxes because I don't like something they are spent on. You can't just pick and choose the laws you want to obey.

It is interesting when reading literature from earlier eras from other countries and see the perception of Americans- the examples that most comes to mind are Agatha Christie novels and the American as the cavalier, rich, slightly classless but likeable good guy. I wonder what it's like today.

SI

Marc Vaughan 07-03-2012 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2683154)
It is interesting when reading literature from earlier eras from other countries and see the perception of Americans- the examples that most comes to mind are Agatha Christie novels and the American as the cavalier, rich, slightly classless but likeable good guy. I wonder what it's like today.


Dunno about the perception of Americans, but hollywood appears to only have three types of English person:

(1) English rose (female)
(2) English villain (male) - educated, arrogant and ultimately defeated by the all-American bad guy.
(3) English sop - posh sounding english person in a romantic film, sometimes a cad sometimes a clueless lead.

gstelmack 07-03-2012 04:58 PM

Assuming you ignore James Bond ;-)

Grover 07-03-2012 05:00 PM

And #3 is exclusively played by Hugh Grant.

Marc Vaughan 07-03-2012 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack (Post 2683208)
Assuming you ignore James Bond ;-)


I suppose I should also add in 'wizard kids' to the list though as a nod to Harry Potter :D

Edward64 07-03-2012 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 1886733)
  1. Some massive overhaul for healthcare to fix the problem. Not sure if socialized 100% coverage is the right solution but something beyond $5K tax credits needs to be done.
  2. Serious Energy program. Encourage alternate fuels etc. Not sure what the solution is but with gas back down to < $2, I am concerned this will no longer be the focus.
  3. Stabilize Iraq. Militarily for sure, not sure about politically. Refocus on Afghanistan and get that SOB (preferably dead).
  4. Improve world opinion of the US. I think Hillary and Bill and accomplish this!


Specific to Improve world opinion of the US, this apparently has happended when compared to GWB but the results are "mixed and complicated". Long read, too much for me to summarize properly but thought I would share ...

Global Opinion of Obama Slips, International Policies Faulted | Pew Global Attitudes Project
Quote:

Attitudes toward the U.S. are generally more positive today than in 2008, the final year of the George W. Bush administration. The biggest improvements in America’s image have occurred among Europeans – in France, Spain, and Germany, the percentage of people with a positive view of the U.S. is at least 20 percentage points higher than in 2008.

However, some of the initial surge in pro-American sentiments that followed Obama’s election have waned in Western Europe, especially in Germany where 64% had a favorable opinion of the U.S. in 2009, compared with 52% today.

In Japan, 72% currently express a favorable opinion of the U.S., up from 50% four years ago. America’s image in Japan improved dramatically in 2011, due in part to American relief efforts following the devastating March 2011 earthquake and tsunami. Fully 85% of Japanese respondents expressed a positive view of the U.S. in last year’s poll.

In a number of strategically important Muslim nations, America’s image has not improved during the Obama presidency. In fact, America’s already low 2008 ratings have slipped even further in Jordan and Pakistan.

Edward64 07-03-2012 07:24 PM

Yup, way too early to tell. But interesting.

Obama takes lead in Gallup polling - latimes.com
Quote:

For the first time since April, President Obama has opened up a sustained lead over Republican Mitt Romney in Gallup’s daily tracking poll of the presidential race.

Obama leads Romney 48%-44% in the poll, marking the sixth consecutive day in which the poll has showed him with a small, but statistically meaningful lead. The shift comes after almost two months in which the two candidates were essentially tied in the poll’s results.

The uptick for Obama started before the Supreme Court’s ruling upholding most parts of Obama’s healthcare ruling. The ruling, itself, does not appear to have had an impact on the shape of the race. Democratic strategists believe that the Obama campaign’s repeated attacks on Romney’s business record, particularly the involvement of his company, Bain Capital, in “offshoring” of jobs, has begun to connect with voters.

The results are particularly notable because many polling analysts believe that Gallup’s methods for analyzing its nightly surveys slightly under-represents the number of minority voters and, therefore, understates Obama’s support by a couple of points.

JediKooter 07-03-2012 07:25 PM

Latest rumor on Romney's potential VP...Bachmann. Wow. Talk about handing it to the Dems two elections in a row, if that becomes reality.

DaddyTorgo 07-03-2012 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter (Post 2683288)
Latest rumor on Romney's potential VP...Bachmann. Wow. Talk about handing it to the Dems two elections in a row, if that becomes reality.


LOL seriously?

Marc Vaughan 07-03-2012 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter (Post 2683288)
Latest rumor on Romney's potential VP...Bachmann. Wow. Talk about handing it to the Dems two elections in a row, if that becomes reality.


As a Democrat - her or Palin would be fantastic, thanks very much :D

Edward64 07-03-2012 07:36 PM

I think its too early to panic. WTF is all this public tweeting anyway.

Mitt Romney supporters fight calls for campaign staff shake-up - The Washington Post
Quote:

Supporters of Mitt Romney are pushing back against calls for a campaign shake-up by Rupert Murdoch and Jack Welch, two industry titans who recently took to Twitter to advise the Republican presidential candidate to dump his staff.
Quote:

At the meeting, Murdoch pressed Romney and his aides to get tougher on Obama and asked about Romney’s stance on immigration. He later tweeted his thoughts in response to a follower who said that Romney has brains but needs more stomach and heart: “Romney has all these and more, but just to see more fight. And Hispanics a surrender to O. Cn not afford, hurts senate too.”

Polls show that Romney is lagging far behind Obama among Latino voters. At the meeting, the Republican insisted that he will maintain his position on immigration rather than risk appearing to switch sides. He also mentioned Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.) as a top surrogate who would help him attract support among Latinos.

The calls by Murdoch and Welch for a staff shake-up came as Fehrnstrom, a top Romney campaign aide, sided with Democrats who said that Obama’s health-care reform law penalizes rather than taxes people who don’t buy insurance. Romney has made the same argument about the health-care plan he signed into law when he was governor of Massachusetts.

Republicans, however, have used the tax argument — part of Supreme Court ruling that upheld the law — to try to reframe the health-care debate and tag Democrats as tax-and-spend liberals.

Fehrnstrom’s comments seemed to take that issue off the table.

Murdoch later tweeted: “Romney people upset at me! Of course I want him to win, save us from socialism, etc but should listen to good advice and get stuck in!”


I think Rubio would be better than Bachmann but suspect that Romney has already lost the latino vote. So why not tea party.
Quote:

Polls show that Romney is lagging far behind Obama among Latino voters. At the meeting, the Republican insisted that he will maintain his position on immigration rather than risk appearing to switch sides. He also mentioned Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.) as a top surrogate who would help him attract support among Latinos.
TRENDING: Bachmann on VP spot: ‘Not for me to make that decision’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
Quote:

Former presidential candidate Michele Bachmann did not deny Monday whether she was being vetted for the job of Mitt Romney's running mate.

"Whoever it is that he chooses to bring in as his V.P., it will be a highly competent person who could step in at a moment's notice and assume the responsibilities of the White House," the Minnesota congresswoman said on CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight."

Pressed further if she was being considered for the gig, Bachmann, whose name has not been frequently mentioned as a potential contender, left it up to the presumptive GOP nominee and his team to make a comment.

"Well, that's something for the campaign to answer on," she said. "That's not for me to make that decision, and that announcement."

While veep-talk has certainly been a swirling force on the campaign trail in recent weeks, Romney has only confirmed his campaign was vetting Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, though many more are expected to be on his list.

rowech 07-03-2012 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter (Post 2683288)
Latest rumor on Romney's potential VP...Bachmann. Wow. Talk about handing it to the Dems two elections in a row, if that becomes reality.


Gotta make the tea party happy and ignore the people who actually will decide the election. I'll be shocked if it's not Rubio.

GrantDawg 07-03-2012 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 2683294)
As a Democrat - her or Palin would be fantastic, thanks very much :D



Is there a way we can make this happen? Boy, that would make an entertaining campaign.

Marc Vaughan 07-03-2012 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michele Bachmann
"Whoever it is that he chooses to bring in as his V.P., it will be a highly competent person who could step in at a moment's notice and assume the responsibilities of the White House," the Minnesota congresswoman said on CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight."


So basically Bachmann is indicating that she won't be VP then? ;)

Marc Vaughan 07-03-2012 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowech (Post 2683298)
Gotta make the tea party happy and ignore the people who actually will decide the election. I'll be shocked if it's not Rubio.


Rubio would make a lot of sense, he'd appeal to a weak area of the constituents and is young and dynamic which will play well with younger people - especially now Obama isn't looking quite so spritely.

Swaggs 07-03-2012 09:12 PM

It is going to be Rob Portman or Tim Pawlenty. Romney is not going to want to be upstaged by a charismatic or firebrand running mate. No way he risks another Palin situation.

Rubio is not well vetted (and has had some red flags come up that aren't getting a lot of attention just yet -- campaign finance misdeeds and a lot of personal and business financial problems) and is too young/inexperienced to be a "heartbeat away."

DaddyTorgo 07-03-2012 09:39 PM

The other problem that people overlook with Rubio is that he isn't Hispanic people. He's Cuban-American. And there's a lot of animosity between the Hispanic (immigrant) and Cuban-American communities due to the preferential treatment (in particular regarding IMMIGRATION) and the outsized influence that the Cuban-American community wields. So Rubio would help with the Cuban-American population (who IIRC are pretty solidly Republican already), but he isn't really going to deliver the "massive waves of Hispanic voters nationwide" that the media-narrative tries to credit him with.

Dutch 07-03-2012 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 2683207)
Dunno about the perception of Americans, but hollywood appears to only have three types of English person:

(1) English rose (female)
(2) English villain (male) - educated, arrogant and ultimately defeated by the all-American bad guy.
(3) English sop - posh sounding english person in a romantic film, sometimes a cad sometimes a clueless lead.


Cleary you have never seen Reign of Fire. :)

sterlingice 07-04-2012 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 2683369)
Cleary you have never seen Reign of Fire. :)


No one saw Reign of Fire ;)

SI

Edward64 07-04-2012 09:22 PM

I'm sure there is a reason but I'm not sure why he is waffling on this.

Romney: Health care mandate is a tax - First Read
Quote:

WOLFEBORO, N.H.-- Mitt Romney contradicted a top aide to his campaign and aligned himself instead with the Republican establishment in labeling the health care mandate a tax, not a penalty, as Democrats have contended.

"Now the Supreme Court has spoken and while I agreed with the dissent, that’s taken over by the fact that the majority of the court said it’s a tax," Romney said in an interview Wednesday with CBS. "Therefore it is a tax. They have spoken. There’s no way around that. You can try and say you wish they’d decided a different way, but they didn't. They concluded it’s a tax. That’s what it is."

Romney's description of the health care mandate as a tax aligns his position with that of GOP leaders, who have for days used the Supreme Court's majority decision upholding the law under Congress's taxation authority as a cudgel with which to attack Democrats and the president as having raised taxes.

Earlier this week, Romney senior adviser Eric Fehrnstrom took a position in an interview with NBC's Chuck Todd that the mandate should be labeled a fee or a penalty, not a tax, and repeating again that Romney agreed with the Supreme Court's dissenting opinion, written by Antonin Scalia, that the mandate should be considered a penalty or fee and would therefore be unconstitutional.


Swaggs 07-04-2012 09:39 PM

He got knocked back in line by the GOP establishment.

Initially, he obviously didn't want to call it a tax because he signed very similar legislation into law as governor. Everyone else in the GOP pounced on it as a tax, so he was sailing alone.

I think the GOP brass recognizes that Romney is going to have a tough time winning because Obama just has way too many paths to victory. It is better for them to focus on controlling the House and taking the Senate. If Romney wins, it isn't going to be for anything he does, it will be whether the economy gets bad enough that swing voters want to change course.

I think Santorum was the one who said that Romney was the single worst person in the entire Republican party to battle Obama on healthcare reform and I don't see any reason to disagree with him at this point.

Just my two cents...

RainMaker 07-04-2012 11:50 PM

Here is the thing about the tax. If that's how they feel, then they agree with Justice Roberts. You can't run around saying you disagree with the Supreme Court decision of Roberts but then say it's a tax which was basically the heart of his decision.

M GO BLUE!!! 07-05-2012 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter (Post 2683288)
Latest rumor on Romney's potential VP...Bachmann. Wow. Talk about handing it to the Dems two elections in a row, if that becomes reality.


I don't know... She has a great poker face.

JediKooter 07-05-2012 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!! (Post 2683806)
I don't know... She has a great poker face.


I thought that was Lady Gaga.

Crapshoot 07-05-2012 11:16 AM

There is no universe where Romney is dumb enough to select Michelle Bachmann as his VP nominee. None. I will bet a substantial amount on that one with anyone here who believes otherwise. :D

sterlingice 07-05-2012 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot (Post 2683967)
There is no universe where Romney is dumb enough to select Michelle Bachmann as his VP nominee. None. I will bet a substantial amount on that one with anyone here who believes otherwise. :D


Intrade tends to agree with you. Bachmann is at 0.1%:
Intrade - Michele Bachmann to be Republican VP nominee in 2012

Some names that there is more money on than Bachmann:
Cathy McMorris Rodgers (2.9%)
Kelly Atotte (2.7%)
Condoleezza Rice (3.5%)
Susana Martinez (1.2%)
Brian Sandoval (0.5%)
Luis Fortuno (0.3%)
John Kasich (0.5%)
John Kyl (0.5%)
Meg Whitman (0.2%)
David Petraeus (0.5%)
Rudy Giuliana (0.2%)

And, my favorite: Mitt Romney is even with her at 0.1%. Intrade thinks Mitt is as likely to choose himself* than to pick Bachmann.

SI

*I know that's not the exact wager but roll with me here for humor's sake

JediKooter 07-05-2012 12:32 PM

Of all of those on that list, Rice is the best choice in my opinion.

Grover 07-05-2012 12:35 PM

Kelly Ayotte is on that list? She's nuts.

GrantDawg 07-05-2012 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter (Post 2683989)
Of all of those on that list, Rice is the best choice in my opinion.



She'd never do it.

larrymcg421 07-05-2012 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter (Post 2683989)
Of all of those on that list, Rice is the best choice in my opinion.


Disagree. Too soon to bring on someone who was a member of the Bush administration and inextricably linked to the Iraq war.

JPhillips 07-05-2012 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 2683991)
She'd never do it.


Quote:

I’ve called myself at times mildly pro-choice.

The end.

JediKooter 07-05-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 2683991)
She'd never do it.


Not saying she would. Just saying she's the best choice in my opinion.


Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421
Disagree. Too soon to bring on someone who was a member of the Bush administration and inextricably linked to the Iraq war.


I don't necessarily disagree with you, she would have that stigma, but, it would be a smart choice. I'm guessing though, that the people that would vote for Romney, aren't going to care that she was associated with the Bush administration. She's definitely more viable than someone like a Palin or a Bachmann, that would completely turn off a lot of the independent voters.

Of all the people in Bush's cabinet, she seemed to be one of the more credible people to me.

sterlingice 07-05-2012 12:47 PM

I just picked those off the list that there's a snowball's chance in hell for or those who I had never heard of

SI

sterlingice 07-05-2012 12:48 PM

I have also noticed at least two typos in quickly making that list and at least one makes it funnier for me (Rudy Giuliana)

SI

GrantDawg 07-05-2012 01:00 PM

I just got an email saying Joe Biden wants to buy me a cup of coffee. Felt like a threat.

JediKooter 07-05-2012 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 2684009)
I just got an email saying Joe Biden wants to buy me a cup of coffee. Felt like a threat.


The man is a beast.

Biden To Honor Fallen Soldiers By Jumping Motorcycle Over Vietnam Memorial | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

larrymcg421 07-05-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter (Post 2683998)
Not saying she would. Just saying she's the best choice in my opinion.




I don't necessarily disagree with you, she would have that stigma, but, it would be a smart choice. I'm guessing though, that the people that would vote for Romney, aren't going to care that she was associated with the Bush administration. She's definitely more viable than someone like a Palin or a Bachmann, that would completely turn off a lot of the independent voters.

Of all the people in Bush's cabinet, she seemed to be one of the more credible people to me.


Sure, she's better than Palin or Bachmann, but that's not saying much. Part of the problem with her as a VP pick is that both independents and conservatives will have a problem with her. Conservatives won't like her moderate social views, whereas independents won't like her record with the Bush administration.

JediKooter 07-05-2012 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 2684019)
Sure, she's better than Palin or Bachmann, but that's not saying much. Part of the problem with her as a VP pick is that both independents and conservatives will have a problem with her. Conservatives won't like her moderate social views, whereas independents won't like her record with the Bush administration.


As an independent myself (not to be confused with the Independent Party), I really don't have much of a problem with her. Granted that's just me though. There's no way in hell Romney is going to pick her, but, if he was restricted to the choices that were listed (not the link), she'd be the smart choice.

RainMaker 07-05-2012 04:39 PM

Rice is at least smart, unlike Palin and Bachmann. I don't know the full spectrum of her political views but I think you have to be smart to hold a position that high.


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